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The End of SAAB
- Thread starter joepunk
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I think Geo as a brand disappeared in the 90s, though GM continued to rebadge small Japanese cars after it died, like the Metro and Aveo.
If we're honest though, they could afford to shed 2 of those without any detrimental effect to their overall business.
I don't see how. If GM could shed two, it would be Vauxhall/Opel( since they tie together their products so much). But, that won't happen since those brands have more presence in Europe then any other GM brand right now. Opel/Vauxhall is important for GM right now( which is why the new Board of Directors voted to kill the sale). Then you have GM Daewoo which unlike Opel/Vauxhall, they actually contribute to GM's engineering with product development, where GM Europe does most of the engineering for Opel/Vauxhall products. The new Delta II platform was partially developed at GM Daewoo. Both are important for GM's future at the moment.
Holden won't be killed off because 95% of GM's current and future RWD car platforms originated at Holden and it is Holden that owns GM Daewoo. Sigma I( CTS/ 1st gen SRX/STS), Zeta(Camaro, G8, Caprice PPV, VXR8), and Alpha(ATS) are all products or used to be( as GM took away Sigma and Alpha from Holden and gave it to Cadillac to finish development, but the platforms originated at Holden) of those crazy Aussie's engineering. Only GMNA RWD sourced platform is the Y-Body(Corvette) and Kappa( which is now dead with Solstice/Sky/ Opel GT/ Daewoo model dead). GM used Holden as leverage because they were the most viable part of GM. GMNA was failing and GM Europe was starting to fall apart with the recession. Holden with its export program to the middle east, Europe, and North America( the new Chevy Caprice PPV is going to be imported from Australia which is a Holden Statesmen) makes them viable.
Wikipedia says that all the vehicles that continued selling sold as Chevrolets after 1997; the last Chevy that used to be a Geo was the Tracker, which was terminated in 2004. The Aveo, which came from Daewoo and started selling in the US in 2003, was actually never a Geo.
Right...I simply meant that GM still sells some of the same types of cars (i.e small, re-badged Asian cars) that used to be marketed under the Geo brand - the Aveo, for instance, is very much a successor to the Metro.
GM's problem is that they had too many of the same car and eventually were competing with themselves. It still is that way. By the end, Saturns were just rebranded Chevys (Malibu=Aura, Equinox= VUE). Buicks and GMCs are still rebranded Chevys. What GM should of done is cut their line up down to Chevy, Pontaic, and Cadilliac. Cadilliac would be the luxury brand, Pontaic the low cost, and Chevys
would be sort of in the middle.
All the car companies with multiple brands do this, it is just more noticeable with GM.
would be sort of in the middle.
All the car companies with multiple brands do this, it is just more noticeable with GM.
Actually, it can be said that Chevy's were rebadged Saturn's. Ion predated Cobalt, Vue predated Equinox, and Aura predated Malibu.
Besides the Enclave( which came before Traverse), where is the Chevy in Buick? LaCrosse and Regal are unique and don't have any Chevy's riding on the Epsilon II platform yet(2012 Malibu and I bet it will look a lot different then the LaCrosse).
Apparently Spyker has submitted a revised bid for SAAB, so the possibility of a deal remains...
Oddly, It appears that F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone is headlining a competing bid as well...last minute drama?
Oddly, It appears that F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone is headlining a competing bid as well...last minute drama?
GM's problem is that they have absolutely no sense of brand integrity. They think brands are just badges that you can slap on anything and still expect customers to remain loyal. If they owned Apple, they would stick the Apple badge on Dell PCs and try to peddle them as Macs. An Opel is a Saturn is a Vauxhall is a Holden. Most companies try to mask the rebranding by changing the exterior a little, but not GM, they just take the exact same car and slap different badges on them. When I grew up, "Chevrolet" was the mythical brand of the Corvette and awesome 50's cars like the '57 Bel Air. Fast forward a few decades and they're shamelessly slapping the Chevy badge on ugly, puny Daewoos that look like mailboxes on skateboards? How will that not tarnish the brand and diminish the perceived value of "real" Chevys like the Corvette?
Anyway, here's what went wrong with SAAB:
- There was *zero* effort made to establish SAAB on any other markets than Scandinavia, the UK and the US. In central and southern Europe, as well as Asia, barely anyone knows what a SAAB is. Also, in central and southern Europe everyone drives a diesel, and SAAB never offered a single diesel engine alternative (Volvo always offered plenty).
- It took f-o-r-e-v-e-r to get the new 9-5 out. It looks great and would probably have generated a boost in sales, but it was launched after the brand was declared dead. The old 9-5 looked really, well, old. It remained the same from 1997 to 2009, save for a couple of facelifts. Unacceptable.
- SAAB was never quite accepted by buyers of European premium cars like Audi and BMW, simply because SAAB was never a premium car to begin with. SAAB started out as a "people's car", as part of a post-WW2 effort to get everyone on wheels. Much like the VW Beetle, or the Citroën 2CV, it was small, inexpensive, minimalistic and featured some quirky and unusual solutions. It remained a people's car throughout the 60's, 70's and better part of the 80's, until some jackass decided that for no apparent reason, SAAB was now a premium car. Sorry, but farmers don't become royalty just because you stick a crown on them. Both Citroën and VW have tried to go premium -- Citroën did it by acquiring Maserati and starting to manufacture sporty luxury cars, VW did it with the "Phaeton" which was a massive flop. Citroën was in dire straits until they finally got back to their roots and made cheap, functional cars again. SAAB should have aimed for the VW/Ford slot, midrange with a slight hint of premium.
- GM prevented SAAB from making a Golf-class hatchback model (9-1) because Americans have some weird allergy to hatchbacks (something about an imagined association to being poor, I believe), they want sedans (because an ass sticking out of the hatchback makes you look rich?). In Europe, and especially on SAAB's home market in Scandinavia, people avoid sedans like the plague -- they want station wagons, liftbacks and hatchbacks. The liftback design (or 'combi coupé', as SAAB called them) was SAAB's niche, and it remained very popular until GM replaced it with the goddamn sedan.
- GM, in their trademark fashion, diluted the brand by slapping the SAAB badge on Chevys and Subarus. They were wise enough to never introduce these fake, bastard SAABs to the European market, but they sold them in the US which screwed up the brand image over there.
- SAAB took the wrong approach to the emerging treehugger trend. Instead of going with hybrids or frugal diesel engines they gambled everything on ethanol engines. Backlash galore.
Too expensive, poorly marketed globally, no 9-1, no liftback, aging designs, no SUV model (the 9-7X is not a real SAAB), wrong engines = death.
I personally don't see a problem with the Holden Commodore being rebadged for different markets. Just as long as they are not sold as a Chevy and a Pontiac( using the G8 as an example since it is a rebadged Commodore) in the same market.
The G8 did fit in with Pontiac's supposed brand image( performance division).
The G8 did fit in with Pontiac's supposed brand image( performance division).
More from the BBC about GM's continued wind-down of SAAB, which they expect to take only "months".....
Seems like the clock is truly ticking now, if one of the two current bids isn't accepted SAAB is finished.
Seems like the clock is truly ticking now, if one of the two current bids isn't accepted SAAB is finished.
Yeah, they finally got the Holden import thing right with the G8. I was really hoping it would be spared and show up under another brand. It is a nice car. Then again, I'm a sucker for a big, fast sedan. I was hoping they would stick around long enough for me to pick up one used in a couple of years.
Well it is coming back sort of.
Introducing the latest car you have to look out for....
Chevy Caprice PPV which is a rebadged Holden Statesmen. So far there is no plans for a civilian version.
Actually, it can be said that Chevy's were rebadged Saturn's. Ion predated Cobalt, Vue predated Equinox, and Aura predated Malibu.
Besides the Enclave( which came before Traverse), where is the Chevy in Buick? LaCrosse and Regal are unique and don't have any Chevy's riding on the Epsilon II platform yet(2012 Malibu and I bet it will look a lot different then the LaCrosse).
I didn't quite mean to say just Chevy, but all their cars are exactly the same. If the Cobalt had been on a diffrent platform, perhaps the Ion would of sold better.
Does it make any sense to have two compact platforms?
All GM has to do is make the designs different and fits with the brands proposed identity. Vehicles can share the same platform and engines. All the automakers do this.
I can't remember the peak ownership level GM had of S, I & S, but like Saab it is unfortunately more examples of doing poorly with some potentially very good assets. Subaru's awd could had been so much more than a rebadged Saabaru 9-2x. The funny thing was that the 9-7x was viewed as the best rebadge of the Chevy Trailblazer.
Completely forgot GM Daewoo, shame on me.
Maybe he just felt the need to get some free publicity since we (MacRumors) could all group together and claim we were going to try and make a bid and I bet Arn would get a few thousand extra hits from curious people possibly wondering what we were smoking.
Well it is coming back sort of.
Introducing the latest car you have to look out for....
Chevy Caprice PPV which is a rebadged Holden Statesmen. So far there is no plans for a civilian version.
I read about that. I was hoping for a return of the Impala SS. In black, please. Maybe I should just move to Australia so I can buy a Holden.
The problem is that GM has a long history of bad badge engineering. Sometime in the late 70s/early 80s, the accountants took control and badge engineering ran rampant through GM. They have gotten much better, but I think this policy turned a lot of people against the idea of platform sharing.
I know. Cadillac Cimarron comes to mind.
Consumers would be surprised on how many cars they love are actually on the same platform. Camry=ES350, Highlander= RX350, GX=Sequoia, and LX= Land Cruiser. Platform sharing isn't bad. It is bad only when manufactures don't put any effort to design each other differently. Even Toyota is guilt of that with the LX and GX. Those SUV's have a big resemblance to their Toyota counterparts.
I know. Cadillac Cimarron comes to mind.
AH! NEVER mention that vehicle!!
Platform sharing is bad when it becomes lazy badge-engineering. But it can be an efficient way for a manufacturer to stretch its resources.
I know. Cadillac Cimarron comes to mind.
Consumers would be surprised on how many cars they love are actually on the same platform. Camry=ES350, Highlander= RX350, GX=Sequoia, and LX= Land Cruiser. Platform sharing isn't bad. It is bad only when manufactures don't put any effort to design each other differently. Even Toyota is guilt of that with the LX and GX. Those SUV's have a big resemblance to their Toyota counterparts.
Eww, Cimarron. A tarted up Cavalier.
I love pointing out to ES owners that they could get the same thing in a top of the line Camry with a lot lower price tag. Sadly, many people don't care and just want that Lexus nameplate. I think Toyota/Lexus may be the worst offender right now. The RX/Highlander are fairly different from each other, but you are right about the other SUVs, and the ES/Camry. Now they have the hs250h (redundant naming, anyone?). It's a Prius with a Lexus pricetag. Good luck with that.
OK, good point there. I was talking about across the whole lineup, though. I guess there just isn't much you can do to make a big, boxy, SUV (CUV, crossover, whatever you wanna call it) look that different from each other. They did a decent job with the smaller models. The new Equinox looks nothing like the Caddy SRX. Of course, you could nominate the entire linup for GMC, since they are all rebadged Chevys. I mean, just look at the Silverado/Sierra, and the Tahoe/Yukon. They have different grills and uhh...not much else.
They also drive pretty much the same (pretty good in the case of the Acadia family). The only difference appears to be in the interior. Even price now comes close as a tarted up Traverse is about the same as an Enclave. The smaller SUVs are better. Maybe change is coming to GM at last.