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The End Of TenFourFox
- Thread starter Dronecatcher
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Why insane ? No one is going to break in, besides I have firewalls protecting my xfinity router. One day I tried WEP and no issues either, but decided to go back to WPA2
I have no issues at all using my G4 1Ghz titanium to access the web, and even under OS 9 Classila some sites render rather well - I am trying to start a movement to bring back the real true internet without the ads and all the stuff that takes our privacy away. 2000’s internet sites were the best and we can go back to that if we want. Personally, I hate ads and embedded videos on the sites - just sloppy web design. As for Intel ? Well, they are harmless. Meaning, I don’t give a RA about x86 at all, let it wither. M1 will take care of Intel.
Not the case with TFF, literally need to guess the exact url or use the git CLI to download repos.
Everything loads and works under all my browsers, except LWK - I deleted safari by mistake, now I need to get it back. Link for safari 5.0.9, so I can use LWK ?
No, it doesn't. Not on those browsers. Sure githubs pages display (mostly), but the commit history is blank, the editor is broken, etc etc.
Per our conversation on IRC, you mentioned that TFF will be fine., at least it loads the editor on GitHub.
My God. He is back and is on fire.
You don't get it, do you ? I have every right to be upset and so should you and everyone else.. I was also venting my anger out as a reason for the loss of tenfourfox and classila. I am not some lunatic. I was around PowerPC a lot longer than most everyone on here. I believe in using and getting the best out of our aging macs and will not give up until PowerPC can't access the web anymore and that day is not here.. ALAS.. I found some information which may help us all; TLS 1.4 won't be around for another 10-15 years, so this gives us plenty of time to develop further tenfourfox from becoming the ssl error apocalyptic browser like all others. There is hope, and a good friend spoke to me about this.. someone who does not even go on these forums.
Because this thread had caused tremendous sadness and anger(such as from me because I CARE about the continued longevity of PowerPC), i have decided to have the mods remove this thread permanently. We will all move on from this. There is still plenty of time before we can create something out of 104fox which we all can enjoy. We are not done yet, not by a long shot. PowerPC still has life in it, but as for this thread which really is sadness and depression, also can cause anger.. I have decided to have it removed.
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And he is literally throwing fire to the wrong “enemy” lol. Intel is not your enemy. Google is. They have a seat in World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) and have a lot of power to dictate the direction which the web is heading now.
Mozilla has to get their act and put their big d*ck on table if they want to survive. Otherwise, it will be a movie I’ve seen before: Firefox is the new Netscape, Chrome the new IE6, Edge being the phoenix rising from the IE ashes. (Similar to Firefox from Netscape in the late 2000s).
What the f...! This totally contradicts what is happening here.
Mozilla has to get their act and put their big d*ck on table if they want to survive. Otherwise, it will be a movie I’ve seen before: Firefox is the new Netscape, Chrome the new IE6, Edge being the phoenix rising from the IE ashes. (Similar to Firefox from Netscape in the late 2000s).
What the f...! This totally contradicts what is happening here.
No one is telling you that you can’t use PowerPC Macs… no one is confiscating them, no one is turning them all off forever, you are free to continue using them as you please. Just because Dr. Kaiser is ending development on his browsers doesn’t immediately mean they’re going to implode in fire and fury. They will continue to work as is for the time being until the web continues to move on. Just because a part of a part of a part of a population still uses PowerPC Macs exclusively doesn’t mean that the entire rest of the modern connected world has to stop advancing itself so that those holdouts can continue to use their computers as they could 20 years ago. Technology never stops improving, that’s what gave us PowerPC Macs and the internet to begin with. They will all still be able to access the internet in some capacity as they always have been able to. There is absolutely no reason to get completely bent out of shape and go on a crusade/jihad against Intel, security, and the modern internet because one single person working on internet browsers for these specific computers is ending development on a hobby project. Just because you’re upset about it doesn’t mean we as a collective whole should be as well. You don’t need to reply to every single person and go on a tirade in every single response about bringing blood, gore, and violence against Intel, security, and anything else that isn’t RISC-friendly.
I agree with you. But you are right.. this is not the thread to discuss the politics of this. I just don't like Intel Macs because Apple gave up too soon on PowerPC - for christ's sake, they stopped supporting us at Leopard. Snow Leopard should have been the final os for PPC, not Leopard. Yes, I use duckduckgo and not google, it also works nicely on my G4 PB as well. I liked Netscape a lot in 1999-2000s and I fully believe if we can get the source code for this and install the proper certs + TLS 1.2 then we could have a new browser to use under OS 9.
You decided that huh? I didn’t realize you were a MacRumors moderator. And I thought this thread was delightful. A community coming together to celebrate the accomplishments of Dr. Cameron Kaiser who managed to extend the lives of our PowerPC Macs by 10 more years through his tireless work on TFF. In addition, various members have come up with possible ways to continue from here. Yes, it’s sad that our main method of browsing the internet with PPC Macs is coming to an end, but it’s not the absolute end of the world.
Hello,
You just went into my brain and you are correct. I was just in shock and angry, thats all. I am sure its happened to you as well. We all need to think what is next for the ever changing life of our PPC machines. I have many ideas that are of great interest, including a revamping of netscape for OS 9 and classila,, so they can browse and render correctly + the installation of TLS 1.2 and better certs. Well, i WOULDN'T call it a jihad persay, just I was in very very heavy shock and having flashbacks of the day I bought my 1st PPC machine and enjoying it - it felt great being different and thinking differently. sadly, technology keeps going, but I wish it would slow down. Its going too fast even for me to keep up with it. Thank you for clarifying how I felt a few days ago.
You have to understand that, one way or another, TenFourFox is breaking. At this point, the problem isn't TSL, it's that it's based on Firefox 45ESR. Mozilla stopped supporting that in 2017, and as several people have mentioned, TFF doesn't manage to display all sites correctly. That problem is only going to get worse as the web standards drift from what TFF can render properly.
There is going to come a day where a site you care about stops working. Odds are, it will be due to them targeting Chrome, as has become very popular lately. With userbase Google has, they don't even need to care what the web standards are. They have enough users that they can make defacto standards.
Cameron Kaiser went out on a high, not waiting for TFF to break in some way that his approach couldn't fix, and considering he was one person, and that he supported this for a decade, I think he has the right to decide when to walk away. There's nothing stopping you from using what you have, but no one can promise you it will keep on working. This isn't a fight, there's no war, there is only change, just like there's always been when it comes to computers.
But, do you think TFF will ever get past 45ESR ? What sites currently does TFF not render ? So far, most sites I goto render just fine, no issues. We had a chrome like browser once called Stainless.. Can't we fix that to work ?
A new browser for OS9 will not, will never happen. The internet is broken for these old browsers, period.
There is no point in doing that because the old gecko rendering engine cannot cope with the modern web. Like @repairedCheese said, Google now has too much power and is dictating the new standards.
Yes, its possible to bring new certs and TLS 1.2 to old Mozilla browsers like Netscape 9, as noted by Roytam1 when he did it for Windows version of Netscape 9.0.0.6 with an NSS update patch. I tested it on Windows 98SE, but although Netscape now can handshake with TLS 1.2, it still chokes with most modern websites and still needs to rely on mobile sites pretty much like Classilla does.
But there is no point in doing that when pages do not render correctly and web developers are being passive to Google web standards. We, web developers, should be dictating the web standards not Google.
There is no point in doing that because the old gecko rendering engine cannot cope with the modern web. Like @repairedCheese said, Google now has too much power and is dictating the new standards.
Yes, its possible to bring new certs and TLS 1.2 to old Mozilla browsers like Netscape 9, as noted by Roytam1 when he did it for Windows version of Netscape 9.0.0.6 with an NSS update patch. I tested it on Windows 98SE, but although Netscape now can handshake with TLS 1.2, it still chokes with most modern websites and still needs to rely on mobile sites pretty much like Classilla does.
But there is no point in doing that when pages do not render correctly and web developers are being passive to Google web standards. We, web developers, should be dictating the web standards not Google.
Question.. When was the last time under OS 9, classila, Netscape, IE 5.1.7 could render all of the web minus youtube ? I got my Pismo G4 back in 2010 - tell, me was it still possible to browse semi to normal web under OS 9 at that time ?
I also looked at this WRP, but can't seem to get it to work. But, here is the issue also what if i want to take my PB G4 with me and just browse the net - certainly, now I can do that right ? What can we do like millions of others that still use older systems to voice our concerns to Google web standards ?
I also looked at this WRP, but can't seem to get it to work. But, here is the issue also what if i want to take my PB G4 with me and just browse the net - certainly, now I can do that right ? What can we do like millions of others that still use older systems to voice our concerns to Google web standards ?
38.5.0 available, and maybe 45 as the swan song, in not too long
TenFourFox 38.5.0 is now available for testing ( download , hashes , release notes ). Remember to quit any foxboxes you have open before yo...
tenfourfox.blogspot.com
This gets a lot easier in Linux as @wicknix has shown, with his forks of several Firefox based browsers based on newer versions of Firefox. And on 64-bit PowerPC Linux, as on a G5, you can even run full current Firefox, though often the color is wrong due to endian issues from the port.
It's never been about hardware. Just software. I certainly can't blame anyone for not wanting to support hardware and software that isn't supported by the people who sold it, especially if they'd not been supporting it all this time.
And my understanding about Chromium is that it's in an even worse state as far as requirements go, so if we're not getting Firefox, no way Chromium based browsers are getting ported.
Not that long ago.. Well, in 2006-2007 I had one PowerPC Mac.. it was an MDD, but never did i think of running it in OS 9. Damn, how i missed out ! 2006-2007 were not good years for me.
Millions…
Desktop Windows Version Market Share Worldwide | Statcounter Global Stats
This graph shows the market share of desktop windows versions worldwide based on over 5 billion monthly page views.
gs.statcounter.com
Desktop macOS Version Market Share Worldwide | Statcounter Global Stats
This graph shows the market share of desktop macos versions worldwide based on over 5 billion monthly page views.
gs.statcounter.com
Windows Vista, XP, 8 and 8.1 account for a whopping 5.43% of all active windows computers combined.
MacOS 10.10 Yosemite accounts for 5.69% of all active Macs, followed by macOS 10.12 Sierra at 3.42%, and 10.11 El Capitan at a mere 2.82%. Anything earlier than Yosemite isn’t even its own category. It’s not even close to multiple millions.
As of 2018, there are 100 million active Macs online. There’s an estimated 2 billion active PCs as of 2015. Let’s say for arguments sake there’s 120 million active Macs now and 3 billion active PCs. If the same .27% of people that use vista are using Tiger, then 324,000 people are using Tiger. If the same .67% of people that are using XP are using Leopard, then 804,000 people are using leopard. That’s 1.2 million people using Tiger and Leopard combined, if the percentage breakdown was the same. For comparison sake, .27% of 3 billion PCs, 8.1 million people still using Vista and .67% of 3 billion PCs, 20.1 million people still using XP, so an estimated 28.2 million people. Despite the incredibly large market share these two windows OSes still have, you don’t see Google or other web developers bending over backwards for these operating systems, so why should anyone do so for their Mac OS equivalents and 27 million less people.