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I'm sad to see it go - I only found out earlier today when The Register covered it. Mad props to Cameron Kaiser for keeping it maintained for so long. I will never be able to read his name without imagining former UK Prime Minister David Cameron wearing a pickelhaube. That will stay with me.

I first got on the internet in 1995, which is later than some of the people here but still a long time ago. I've said it before, but I remember when an awful lot of websites looked like this:

Or this, which I stumbled on a while back and is a fascinating read:

Or alternatively NASA's Apollo flight journals, which look much as they did in the 1990s, on account of the fact that NASA was an early adopter of the internet and the World Wide Web for obvious historical reasons:

A few sites are like that today, just pages of text. Greg Goebel's VectorSite, Mark Prindle's reviews, ditto George Starostin. Probably lots of Buffy / Star Trek Voyager fan pages. It's hard now to believe that the internet was for a long time just pages of text. I miss that. It would never have become as pervasive as it is today if it was just pages of text, but I miss the simplicity and speed.

This news really highlights the fact that in 2021 computing = the internet for an enormous amount of people, and that the internet was the real killer app that made home computer relevant beyond games.

Having said that TenFourFox will continue to at least work for several years, and I tend not to use my PowerPC Macintoshes for web browsing anyway. My old G4 PowerBook still connects to iTunes podcast servers, so I use it as a giant iPod, and I occasionally switch on my G5 and use it as a music machine.

Albeit that now the summer months are upon us I probably won't use the G5 very much.

On a tangent I wonder how owners of early Intel Macintoshes cope. They're in an arguably even worse situation, because there are no modern browsers for Snow Leopard / Lion and they don't even have TenFourFox.
 
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On a tangent I wonder how owners of early Intel Macintoshes cope. They're in an arguably even worse situation, because there are no modern browsers for Snow Leopard / Lion and they don't even have TenFourFox.
There is an intel version of TFF. It's not made by Cameron Kaiser, but it is available on the TFF Sourceforge under contrib/unstable. Despite being in the unstable folder, I find TFF Intel works very well for me. I have used it on Leopard and Snow Leopard on my 2006 MBP. Snow Leopard has various browser options such as ArcticFox and Lion has Chromium Legacy in addition to the browsers Snow Leopard has (minus Links2 due to Lion not having Rosetta).
 
I know that there are many threads for each mac OS version ("the OS name thread") with details for supported apps (including browsers) but how about a unified thread, as a wiki for it? "The Web Browsers Thread" and a list separated by MacOS version containing the supported browsers, a link to download them? For starters I think it would be great, especially for those that want to choose any old OS based on browser support. VOGONS forums has a similar thread for all operating systems not just Macs.
 
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how about a unified thread, as a wiki for it? "The Web Browsers Thread" and a list separated by MacOS version containing the supported browsers,
There's this for a start:

On a tangent I wonder how owners of early Intel Macintoshes cope.
They can run up-to-date Linux or Windows, either natively or in a virtual machine, and get access to literally every browser out there.
 
I failed to compile browservice on rPI3B last night - I will try again. With the Ubuntu VM on my Mac it was a breeze to set up, but not what I wanted. I think both WRP and Browservice are the best solutions available for when TTF is gone
 
You know what the eternal optimist says. When one door closes another door opens.

Fantastic opportunity to get in front of this and investigate proxy solutions like squid. I've got plenty of donor boxes that could fulfill that role and seems like an elegant solution for my modest 68k, PowerPC & early Intel collection. Be the master of our own powerpc futures vs lamenting the eventual demise of Calvin Klein's herculean effort. Que Viva Cameron Kaiser.

Posting from my PMG5.
 
While I was bummed and very shocked by the whole announcement, I was way more ecstatic over getting a new version release of Classilla. I had all conviction 9.3.3 was going to be the last. I will thoroughly enjoy 9.3.4b. :)
 
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It's sad to see this go away but the truth is most PowerPC Macs aren't really even powerful enough for modern web browsing anymore. This kept PowerPC alive all the way through the Intel era so that's pretty impressive.
 
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Why now when PPC Macs have reached third world prices (sub $100) making Mac computer for the people? :)
Now when I have a G5 iMac :) Well, as an Amigan, I dont find final release of software (no further updates) as death, but in web browser case, when no website that you use, cannot be rendered *viewed, or used in account sense.

I hope TenFour will do some good, other options is to try MorphOS and Wayfarer where possible.

MorphOS supported hardware

Wayfarer - a PPC MorphOS webkit based browser
 
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Just to ask / what is last 10/4/Fox?

TenFourFoxG5-FPR30.2.app
TenFourFoxG5-FPR31.app

I see source code available is tenfourfox-FPR32b1, but I cant find it compiled for G4 or G5?
 
On a tangent I wonder how owners of early Intel Macintoshes cope. They're in an arguably even worse situation, because there are no modern browsers for Snow Leopard / Lion and they don't even have TenFourFox.
Early Intel is in FAR better shape than ppc 10.4/10.5 when it comes to native os x browsers.
Tenfourfox Intel. 10.4 and up
Arcticfox. 10.6 and up
Snowmonkey. 10.6 and up
Interweb. 10.6 and up
SpiderWeb. 10.6 and up
Firefox legacy. 10.6 - 10.8
Chromium legacy. 10.7 - 10.9
WaterFox classic. 10.7 and up
Pale moon. 10.7 and up.

VS

Tenfourfox, iceweasel-ppc, and leopard-WebKit.

2 years ago it was the opposite, but as of late, progress has been made for early Intel browsers.

Cheers
 
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One question. For use with Crypto Ancienne, would this work on OS9?

EDIT: Turns out Classilla on OS9 can get to MacRumors forums easily. It just can't render s**t nothing properly. Maybe we could get the admins to put an optional low bandwidth/classic/simple forum theme for PPC users to choose when using MR?
 
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It's sad to see this go away but the truth is most PowerPC Macs aren't really even powerful enough for modern web browsing anymore. This kept PowerPC alive all the way through the Intel era so that's pretty impressive.

Captain obvious: Depends on what you call modern web browsing. During the last PowerPC challenge I was able on my Powerbook G4 to: Casually (emphasis on casual) surf the web in tenfourfox and IceweaselPPC with the FoxPEP and ublock origin helping out a lot. Watch youtube in 360p tenfivetube. Download 720p video in PPCMC and watch it in Coreplayer. Listen to Internet radio in a tenfourfox box. Cruise around the world in acemapper 2.0 in a tenfourfox box. I gotta say going back to my t400 Thinkpad, only three years newer than the Powerbook, was quite a revelation though. Made me appreciate the Core2duo architecture and the difference 4GB of RAM an SSD can make.
 
Why would it be impossible? It runs on 32-bit ppc Linux, it runs on 32-bit x86 Darwin. Will not work out of box, but can't see a major blocker either.


Not sure if I'm reading this right, but GCC and X11 versions are not related.

On the server side the Apple X11 does have the Xrender extension, which is usually the only major blocker when trying to get modern things to run on old X servers. The X11 client code will build on almost anything Unix-like.
Impossible as is right now. I actually did not know it was running on any PPC big endian platform. If Kaiser did not accomplish it, must have some real issues on PPC Mac OS X.

You'll probably need a GCC newer then 4.0 from 2005 to build a relatively new X11 also not from 2005, which is probably required if trying to build a newer FireFox using X11.
 
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We knew this day would come, and it was certainly a good run. Hats off to Mr. Cameron Kaiser for not only undertaking a monumental task that no one else would, but even going above and beyond to sustain it for another whopping 11 years(!). His great work will be embedded in history as one of the few lifelines generously given to an otherwise abandoned architecture, and as a gold mine of data for downstream projects to build off of and add to for their own retro environments as well.

TenFourFox will be missed, but its legacy lives on.

salutes

@RogerWilco6502 Outside of @alex_free's great port of Links2, I wouldn't hold my breath for new browsers. Even though Tiger (and by extension Leopard) can claim a dedicated community of resilient software developers, it remains a 16-year-old OS with increasingly strict limitations as it and modern compiler / security standards continue to grow farther apart. One day in the future, Roytam1 will probably call it quits too, and Windows XP will (finally) find itself in the exact same situation.

Some things are simply inevitable...
Don’t tell that to Windows 10 or M1
 
Ah, I see what you mean. It's too bad really. :(

At least we have proxies like BrowseService that we can use, so even when TFF becomes outdated in terms of protocols and encryption we can still use web browsing on PPC OS X.

It's been a good run, I am immensely thankful for all the effort Cameron Kaiser has put forth in all of his projects. His web pages have served a wealth of information that helped me early-on in my experience with PPC Macs. His contributions won't be forgotten.

Maybe I can find the time to learn to do things similar to what he did, as I'd like to contribute to the community in a more meaningful way. The only issue is I know nearly nothing about programming and other things that would make for good contributions in all honesty.
If you have to rely on web proxy from an enemy system (Intel), then PPC will be finally not good to use. I want the ability to browse the web without some proxy. Granted, LWK I understand proxy is needed for web browsing and Wikipedia, but luckily we have Iceweasel and Arctic Fox - airfield thanks to Wicknix for these.
 
I’m rarely on the vintage forum anymore but I’ve chatted with Cameron via PM before on other sites and he’s always been an awesome dude. I’m sad to see TFF and CZ come to an end, but I don’t blame him at all.

For security reasons I really never let any of my old machines online any more. It was always neat to push machines to their edge and get them online, but I think even basic Android phones now can load websites faster and more reliably than any PPC machine can. I appreciate that it was done to squeeze the last few drops out of PPC Macs but I think in the last couple years it’s become only hobbyists using TFF and CZ. That makes it even more sad reading about the sometimes nasty messages he’d get as bug reports, when you realize these are follow hobbyists with the same interest. I would think they would ‘get’ it.

I wish nothing but the best for Cameron, and I appreciate all the work he did.
Don’t worry, he will be back :) and what PPC machines you use ? I just accessed w/LWK my bank account made a payment on IRS.Gov - security means nothing to me because it’s all fake.
 
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I just set up WRP on my mac and browservice on my pi3b. So I can test both from my VMs on my iPad Pro. OS9 likes WRP more than Browservice, while Windows 3.x and 9.x is the other way around.

Browservice requires Classilla to allow JavaScript globally for his address bar to appear. I was able to post on MR yesterday from WRP. Lets see how it goes for Browservice later...
 
There's this for a start:


They can run up-to-date Linux or Windows, either natively or in a virtual machine, and get access to literally every browser out there.
Is this a PPC forum or Intel forum ? Let Intel die.. it’s not our concern, let them fend for themselves because they are millions more compared to us. I am only concerned w/ the survival of PPC, not Intel - Intel can just rot.
 
I think you can just swap out the certificates without building TFF all over again, you can get the current Firefox certificates which I use for Link2 from cURL. Links2 will continue to be updated.

TLS 1.4 won't be a problem for TFF for hopefully another decade.
Then why don’t we do this for Classila ? Show me the site and I will fix Classila, IE517, Opera, Netscape.
 
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Then why don’t we do this for Classila ? Show me the site and I will fix Classila, IE517, Opera, Netscape.
Can’t as is, the certificate is in a modern incompatible format. Probably possible to convert the incompatible format to something Clasilla understands with modern OpenSSL, have wanted to try this for forever but never got around to it. If this even works then all certificate related issues would be fixed. This does not fix TLS 1.1+ only sites however.

This would also theoretically work on all Mac OS X versions as well.

100% up to date certificates from latest Firefox download: https://curl.se/ca/cacert-2021-01-19.pem

cURL page: https://curl.se/docs/caextract.html

cURL is such an awesome project... These certificates are what are used in Links2 and PowerPC Media Center 7.x along with bleeding-edge OpenSSL 3.0 Alpha versions to enable everything to work at even TLS 1.3 on as low as 10.3.9 Panther.
 
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Don’t worry, he will be back :) and what PPC machines you use ? I just accessed w/LWK my bank account made a payment on IRS.Gov - security means nothing to me because it’s all fake.
Good luck! That’s just insane to me no thank you. I’ve used multiple PPC Macs, most recently a G5 tower.
 
I appreciate all the work that went into TFF, thank you Cameron for keeping it going.

This announcement finally forced me to explore alternative options for the future. I tried out the Web Rendering Proxy, with the server being a 2015 MacBook Air, and wow, I was impressed at how easy it is to set up, and how well it works in general.

I'm not sure how extensive and 'authentic' people are trying to get with their browsing experience, but having used the WRP on my 300MHz G3 Clamshell running 10.3.9 with Safari 1.3, I can immediately say it is the fastest and most effective browsing experience. I just set Safari homepage to my WRP address (http://192.168.1.X:8080) and it's so easy.

I can comfortably and quickly view any website correctly, such as Macrumors or Youtube (good for reading Youtube comments). From Youtube I can easily grab the URLs and put straight into the 10.3.9-supported PPCMC, to watch the videos.

Full graphics web browsing, fast loading times (~6 seconds per page), bookmarks (just save your URLs into Stickies :) ), and Youtube + Twitch playback. That's pretty "modern" in my opinion.

But yes, I definitely think someone should try and make a simple PPC client app for WRP. It could simply let you incorporate more browser features into the client side.
Nice idea, but what if you take your computer with you ?? How will this help ? No, I think we need to develop on TTF and or make updates to the existing browsers we have both in Leopard, Tiger, and OS 8.6/9.2.2 - I am for WRP, but if you take the machine with you, that ends that idea. You need to consider some of us want to take our PPC PowerBooks with us.
 
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