The End Of TenFourFox

[onre]

Impossible as is right now. I actually did not know it was running on any PPC big endian platform. If Kaiser did not accomplish it, must have some real issues on PPC Mac OS X.

You'll probably need a GCC newer then 4.0 from 2005 to build a relatively new X11 also not from 2005, which is probably required if trying to build a newer FireFox using X11.

I remember reading something where Kaiser implied he's not particularly interested in learning Rust just because of FF development and therefore hasn't tried it, or something along those lines.

GCC 7 works, LLVM 7.1 works. No problems on compiler front either. Also, backporting once-existing support to a newer GCC is not an impossible task, especially as support has existed recently. IRIX hobbyists have 9.2.0 running and their support has been officially removed in 4.8.0.

 

[0248294]

Firefox is the new Netscape, Chrome the new IE6, Edge being the phoenix rising from the IE ashes. (Similar to Firefox from Netscape in the late 2000s).

Absolutely, except with Edge now also being a Chromium fork, it gives Google that much more power. It'd be as if every single browser besides NetscapeFirefox and IE itself started using the IE Trident engine back in those days. Having only Firefox, Chrome and WebKit as the three big players is essentially a nightmare scenario we're seemingly headed to.

 

[Project Alice]

Absolutely, except with Edge now also being a Chromium fork, it gives Google that much more power. It'd be as if every single browser besides NetscapeFirefox and IE itself started using the IE Trident engine back in those days. Having only Firefox, Chrome and WebKit as the three big players is essentially a nightmare scenario we're seemingly headed to.

I pretty much agree with everything being said about Google here. However, what does a browser using Chromium as an engine have to do with Google or helping Google in any way? Microsoft is about as bad as Google yes. But there are other very decent browsers that use Chromium, such as Vivaldi, Brave, or Iridium. Chromium is just as open source as FireFox, and was forked from Apple’s own Safari webkit.
A browser using Chromium as it’s engine has as much to do with Google as TenFourFox has to do with Mozilla.
I actually really like Vivaldi and it is a very close second to FF. In fact they’re both in my dock on Intel Macs.

With that said I do wish more browsers would pop up with different engines, because it is basically FireFox vs Chromium with different wrappers at this point. I just miss the actual competition.

 

[rasvoja]

I use Vivaldi on Android and Windows (dont have an Intel Mac).
I find customization provided and user-oriented experience closest to what Opera (Mobile) used to be.
And that is enough to justify "a new browser name". Being updated under the hood comes second to me.

Browser wars seems to come to an end, and if websites alone would not require
high end browser Firefox 4 class of browsers would be acceptable.

Back on topic, does anyone know where to get last tenfourfox-FPR32b1 compiled for g5 if possible?

 

[0248294]

I pretty much agree with everything being said about Google here. However, what does a browser using Chromium as an engine have to do with Google or helping Google in any way? Microsoft is about as bad as Google yes. But there are other very decent browsers that use Chromium, such as Vivaldi, Brave, or Iridium. Chromium is just as open source as FireFox, and was forked from Apple’s own Safari webkit.
A browser using Chromium as it’s engine has as much to do with Google as TenFourFox has to do with Mozilla.
I actually really like Vivaldi and it is a very close second to FF. In fact they’re both in my dock on Intel Macs.

With that said I do wish more browsers would pop up with different engines, because it is basically FireFox vs Chromium with different wrappers at this point. I just miss the actual competition.

The fear back in the IE days is that Microsoft could dictate how the Web would work, as its browser monopoly on PC meant that website builders had to bend to their will to ensure the Trident engine properly displayed it, thus giving Microsoft power over the 'net. Google is the main force behind the Chromium project, and given a very large percentage of Internet users use a browser with this engine, website builders will have to ensure their site properly displays in the Chromium engine.

Any standards or methods Google applies, the rest of the Internet will practically have to follow. That's far too much power for a singular megacorp to have.

 

[MysticCow]

I use Vivaldi on Android and Windows (dont have an Intel Mac).
I find customization provided and user-oriented experience closest to what Opera (Mobile) used to be.
And that is enough to justify "a new browser name". Being updated under the hood comes second to me.

Browser wars seems to come to an end, and if websites alone would not require
high end browser Firefox 4 class of browsers would be acceptable.

Back on topic, does anyone know where to get last tenfourfox-FPR32b1 compiled for g5 if possible?

We had World Wide Web War I and Microsoft won (IE vs Netscape).

We're in World Wide Web War II and Google is winning.

 

[Todd H]

Truly a sad day. Hopefully someone else will pick up the mantle and release a more modern browser for older PowerPC machines running OS9 and older versions of OSX. Heck even the 68000 Amiga has a modern web browser (iBrowse).

 

[MagicBoy]

Truly a sad day. Hopefully someone else will pick up the mantle and release a more modern browser for older PowerPC machines running OS9 and older versions of OSX. Heck even the 68000 Amiga has a modern web browser (iBrowse).

If you read the blog post and the reasons within then you'll see why it's highly unlikely. Your web browser doesn't just render HTML as was common in 2005 .... it's running fully fledged JS applications.

That PPC had a modern-ish browser that worked better than most thought was possible until now is a minor miracle.

 

[Bruninho]

If you read the blog post and the reasons within then you'll see why it's highly unlikely. Your web browser doesn't just render HTML as was common in 2005 .... it's running fully fledged JS applications.

That PPC had a modern-ish browser that worked better than most thought was possible until now is a minor miracle.

Indeed, the JS apps are taking the web. Made from frameworks like React, Angular, Vue.

There is only one culprit for the JS existence: Ironically, one of the Netscape developers, Brendan Eich.

I, for one, do NOT want to see a web made entirely from JS frameworks. I wish there was a way to stop it or create a group to defend a more pure web standards.

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

It's unrealistic to think you would ever stop it but one could absolutely create a community around an agreed upon web standard and web ring of websites, forums etc. that align to said standard. Let JS make their funny money and they'll almost certainly ignore what you're doing and you can ignore them. Ignorance is bliss after all. Seems like a lot of work for not much fruit but hey, everyone's got a lot more time on their hands right now and it would carve out a usable section of the www for older machines.

Geocities for computer hardware & software dorks. Sounds like fun to me.

 

[Bruninho]

This is pretty much what I wanted to do. Obviously we won’t win a “war against JS frameworks” or stop them, because its what the market now wants. Here, “cash is king” so one needs to have a realistic target.

But we can build a more simple web for the masses if we agree on a set of defined standards and work from it. More like a fork of what the web was before 2.0 came in and screwed it up...

Just random thoughts, ofc. I do not expect it to happen. But it would be nice and, more in line with the goal outlined by W3C on their website.

 

[Project Alice]

The fear back in the IE days is that Microsoft could dictate how the Web would work, as its browser monopoly on PC meant that website builders had to bend to their will to ensure the Trident engine properly displayed it, thus giving Microsoft power over the 'net. Google is the main force behind the Chromium project, and given a very large percentage of Internet users use a browser with this engine, website builders will have to ensure their site properly displays in the Chromium engine.

Any standards or methods Google applies, the rest of the Internet will practically have to follow. That's far too much power for a singular megacorp to have.

FireFox, Safari, and any of the Chromium browsers perform almost exact on every webpage now. I think the days of that kind of incompatibility are long behind us. I have still ran into webpages that want Internet Explorer, but never anything that asks for Chrome. Only “the latest versions of Chrome, Firefox, or Safari” are always listed.

I can’t think of anything google could force in that FF or Safari don’t already support. If anything Safari has almost as big as a monopoly. iOS is definitely most of the smart phone market, and that isn’t even including iPads and Macs. More people own iPhones now than PCs (PCs as in any actual computer).

 

[Wowfunhappy]

MacOS 10.10 Yosemite accounts for 5.69% of all active Macs

What is going on with Yosemite? What a uniquely terrible place to hang out.

FireFox, Safari, and any of the Chromium browsers perform almost exact on every webpage now.

Slack and Microsoft Teams would like to have a word. (Calls don't work in anything that isn't Chromium.)

 

[Bruninho]

FireFox, Safari, and any of the Chromium browsers perform almost exact on every webpage now. I think the days of that kind of incompatibility are long behind us. I have still ran into webpages that want Internet Explorer, but never anything that asks for Chrome. Only “the latest versions of Chrome, Firefox, or Safari” are always listed.

I can’t think of anything google could force in that FF or Safari don’t already support.

This happen because they are forced to follow them.

There is still a small set of CSS vendor properties that only Chrome still supports. VP9 video codec support is something that took a LONG time for Safari to support, and is still in their preview versions only.

Some features of Google Meet only works on Google Chrome (such as background behind me in a webcam or sharing a specific app window. When I use Google Meet on Safari, both features are missing, I can only share my entire screen instead of a specific app).

 

[MagicBoy]

What is going on with Yosemite? What a uniquely terrible place to hang out.

Latest OS for for most Core 2 Duo Intel Macs.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Latest OS for for most Core 2 Duo Intel Macs.

Wow. Well that sucks.

 

[Project Alice]

There is still a small set of CSS vendor properties that only Chrome still supports. VP9 video codec support is something that took a LONG time for Safari to support, and is still in their preview versions only.

Some features of Google Meet only works on Google Chrome (such as background behind me in a webcam or sharing a specific app window. When I use Google Meet on Safari, both features are missing, I can only share my entire screen instead of a specific app).

I have never used Google Meet (or any other Google specific app like that). I don’t know anyone who does either. Everybody uses Zoom or Skype. Local governments use Zoom.
Of course Google products will favor Chrome, it’s their own product.

Latest OS for for most Core 2 Duo Intel Macs.

No it isn’t. You’re thinking of El Capitan. I don’t think Yosemite is the cut off for any Macs.

Edit: somehow quotes from a different thread posted...Fixed

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Of course Google products will favor Chrome, it’s their own product.

Actually, to my knowledge Google Meet is the only big one that basically works in Firefox. Zoom and Skype do not if you use the web clients.

 

[Project Alice]

Actually, to my knowledge Google Meet is the only big one that basically works in Firefox. Zoom and Skype do not if you use the web clients.

I’ve used both on FF they work fine.

 

[Bruninho]

I have never used Google Meet (or any other Google specific app like that). I don’t know anyone who does either. Everybody uses Zoom or Skype. Local governments use Zoom.
Of course Google products will favor Chrome, it’s their own product.

Google Meet is used by my current and previous employers because they have a business Google plan, so many Google services are at our disposal such as Google Drive, a business Gmail accout @companyname.com and other stuff like that.

I despise both Google and Zoom, I am forced to use Google for work, but I despise Zoom since they were caught with privacy issues. I do not trust Zoom. There was a moment with my current job when they had the only call on Zoom I've ever made with them, and I had to run it sandboxed in a virtual machine just because I do not trust the app. Since then all calls are on Google Meet.

 

[Amethyst1]

Latest OS for for most Core 2 Duo Intel Macs.

Nope. You probably mean El Capitan which is only the end if you don't have a Penryn. If you do, it's at least High Sierra. The exception being the Early 2008 MacBook [Air] thanks to the useless GPU.

 

[Project Alice]

Google Meet is used by my current and previous employers because they have a business Google plan, so many Google services are at our disposal such as Google Drive, a business Gmail accout @companyname.com and other stuff like that.

I despise both Google and Zoom, I am forced to use Google for work, but I despise Zoom since they were caught with privacy issues. I do not trust Zoom. There was a moment with my current job when they had the only call on Zoom I've ever made with them, and I had to run it sandboxed in a virtual machine just because I do not trust the app. Since then all calls are on Google Meet.

Yeah I remember that...I thought it was funny that the government agencies use it. But, it is useful. People can call in using even a landline to a Zoom meeting. A lot of people do that for court.

I don’t trust Zoom any more or less than I do Google or Microsoft.

 

[Amethyst1]

Desktop macOS Version Market Share Worldwide | Statcounter Global Stats

This graph shows the market share of desktop macos versions worldwide based on over 5 billion monthly page views.

gs.statcounter.com

As a statistician, I know there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

I have a hard time believing that Yosemite's share is supposedly higher than El Cap's to be honest.

 

[Macbookprodude]

Indeed, the JS apps are taking the web. Made from frameworks like React, Angular, Vue.

There is only one culprit for the JS existence: Ironically, one of the Netscape developers, Brendan Eich.

I, for one, do NOT want to see a web made entirely from JS frameworks. I wish there was a way to stop it or create a group to defend a more pure web standards.

I AGREE !! We should try to do this ! Let’s bring back the way web browsing was in 2000s. Even during Snow Leopard era OS 9 still worked.

 

[B S Magnet]

I AGREE !! We should try to do this ! Let’s bring back the way web browsing was in 2000s. Even during Snow Leopard era OS 9 still worked.

Spoiler alert: you cannot enact a revolutionary or a counter-revolutionary idea with this tack.

What you can do is design web sites to use fewer CPU resources.

Also, how you can champion and influence this as praxis is to conduct a thorough, peer-reviewed wholesale resource-based analysis on how much net carbon is consumed unnecessarily by code bloat and tracking resources on web appliance-based applications, versus the same analysis with data recorded ten years earlier, accounting for per capita carbon generation.

With these data and with an analysis methodology that is reproducible and also accounts for carbon-mitigation strategies already in place, one might be able to present a case that code bloat requiring greater computational resources without a general gain of efficiency in delivery of content is generally beneficial to beneficiaries of surveillance capitalism and no one else — certainly not for marginal-case users like ourselves.

Is that work you’re ready, qualified, and willing to do? If yes, then I would love to read your plan.