The Ethics of Buying Both to Test

[iRun26.2]

I have very good reasons to want both a 2019 16” MacBook Pro and a 2020 13.3” MacBook Pro to compare:

1) I want to see the impressive performance of the 16”. A certain simulation (no GPU required) I need for my job currently takes 30 minutes to complete (on a 4-core Dell Inspiron 3493). I also like the bigger display of the 16” but hate the bulky package.

2) I want to experience the portability of the 13.3” that would allow me to use my computer more comfortably in many different environments (especially when not working on the project described above). This would make the computer far more useful when away from my 32” 4K monitor setup.

I’m very tempted to order both (from Apple), try them out with my specific software/setup, and send back the one I decide against before the 15-day return window closes.

While there is nothing stopping me from doing this, I feel it is bordering on being unethical. It obviously is not the intended method of purchase as one of the computers would be ‘open box’, costing Apple extra money.
.

Has anyone ever done a ‘trial run’ like this?

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

Why not order one of them, test it out - if it works keep it. If it doesn't then return and order the other one?

I think that is fairer than ordering 2 with the intention of returning 1.

 

[matram]

There is no such thing as a free lunch, in the end we will all be paying for a generous return policy if abused. So try to do the ethical thing by first trying out your first choice.

 

[gnasher729]

At least you have a good reason, not like some people who just can't make up their mind whether they won't a new computer or not. My point of view: In the UK and EU, we have "distance selling legislation", which means if a consumer orders anything online, they always, without exception, have the right to return it without any reason. That's because you were not able to look at it in a store. So this is kind of Ok from that point of view.

 

[craigc_]

I think it depends on your reasoning for doing so. Like in this instance, you are deciding between two different sizes in order to better do your work. Only you know which will be better for you in the end and if that requires you to try them both out in person, so be it. Apple has that policy for unsatisfied buyers after all and you are deciding for work reasons, not to sell what you buy for profit.

I understand why someone may think this is unethical, but there are also a lot of people who are forced to work from home and as I'm sure many of us are well aware of, Apple shipping/delivery dates are all over the place right now. In my own recent experience, I ordered the new 2020 13" the day it was announced (May 4) and I received it May 21. To each his own but I don't see an issue with it.

 

[Nhwhazup]

Do your best research and pick the one that you feel will work best for you.
I understand that the return policy does allow for buying both and returning one - however that is unethical.

Now I am a returner for sure but for things that are either damaged or that don’t work. I.e. I returned 2 iPhone XS Max phones back in 2018 as I could not get even fair cellular service and connectivity with either. I even waited 6 weeks in between phones to see if the problems were corrected with software updates. I tried hard to work with Apple but they just gave me the “huh”. With a non working cell phone I felt the need to return.

 

[JTToft]

In my experience, Apple Stores and resellers are quite accommodating with allowing people to test out the machines. I went by a store yesterday and did a small CPU load test on an Air and a Pro.

Would you be able to do any of your tests in a store?

 

[maflynn]

There is no ethics in buying/testing and returning.

You are free to buy, regardless of your intentions, and you are free to return regardless of your reasons.

 

[benredacted]

I think the situation you’re describing is exactly what the return policy is there for, especially right now when most stores are closed. If it makes you feel any better, Apple will take your returned laptop and sell it as a refurb, making 20% margin instead of 30% (made up numbers, obviously, but you get the point).

There are certainly ways to abuse a return policy (see also: Costco, REI, in the US) but that doesn’t seem to be your intent.

 

[leman]

Agree with maflynn. Apple offers you the option, use it. The generous returns policy is part of the price. There is nothing unethical about using it.

 

[profcutter]

I don’t understand these “ethics” posts. Apple is an almost trillion-dollar company. They don’t care if you order 2 machines and return one, they’ve still made the profit on whichever machine you choose. Maybe you order 2, and decide neither one is worth the upgrade price. Apple will survive your indecision, and I feel quite confident they won’t change their return policy based on your actions here.

 

[iRun26.2]

Why not order one of them, test it out - if it works keep it. If it doesn't then return and order the other one?

I think that is fairer than ordering 2 with the intention of returning 1.

Because I want to compare them, side by side, running my test software. I’d like to put each on my lap (shortly after the other) to see how warm they get performing day to day tasks.

I want to physically move them around and compare how they work when I am a passenger in my wife’s car. Do they both fit in my backpack?

 

[jerryk]

If you think you are going to use it in your lap a lot, lean hard toward the 13". I have both units and the 13" is much more a laptop. The 16" feels unsteady in my lap. I only use it on a table or other hard support surface. But for performance (software development, compiling, and ML model training) the 16" walks all over the 13".

Also, if you are planning on running a Windows VM, you might want to think twice about macs. They run OK, but not as well as on a dedicated Windows machine like a Dell with the latest and greatest optimized windows drivers.

 

[Queen6]

There is no ethics in buying/testing and returning.

You are free to buy, regardless of your intentions, and you are free to return regardless of your reasons.

This is Apple, without any doubt that cost is put back to the customer one way or the other. It's like when people say OS X is free, it's absolutely not. The cost of the OS is baked into the price of every Mac Apple sells. In countries that have a sale and return policy have at it, equally don't think for one second there's not a cost index to it, Apple would charge to enter the store if it could...

Like all in life what you do and how you conduct yourself has repercussions. In this case Apple can act magnanimously, yet in reality applies the cost directly back to it's customers.

Q-6

 

[roflc0pter]

There is no ethics in buying/testing and returning.

You are free to buy, regardless of your intentions, and you are free to return regardless of your reasons.

Strongly agree. Well said

 

[filmbuff]

A quick ethics test I like to do is "if everybody did this, would it be okay?" Obviously it would not be okay if everyone bought two Macbooks at the same time with the intention of returning one, so what makes you special? It reminds me of that recent copypasta circulating about returning your shopping cart. There is nothing at all forcing you to return it, but nonetheless most people would agree that if you just leave your shopping cart in the parking spot you are human garbage.

I'm starting to ramble so I will leave it there. I know I'm sounding harsh, really we're not talking about committing murder here, you're covered under the return policy so who cares.

 

[Phil77354]

I'll post my vote here for going ahead and getting both for comparison, as the majority of folks also seem to agree. My reasoning being that since the stores are mostly closed (you didn't mention how close you are to an Apple Store, however), and this is the best way for you to try them out.

If you need further reassurance, why don't you have a chat with Apple online and ask them directly whether or not they have any issue with doing this? I'll bet you that they will give you the green light, but it would be interesting to see if they have a different way of responding to customers who may ask about doing this.

 

[1rottenapple]

Ethics im so gonna get down voted for this but throw that out of the window.

Apple shipped a stupidly defective keyboard for close to 5 years sold millions of them (I bought 2) and STUCK WITH THE COMPANY LINE ”it is working as intended and there is nothing wrong with them“ but a spec of dust can cripple my $1400 and $1200 computer. I ended up selling the MacBook 12 after the keyboard was fixed, for $700 and lost $700 to get away from that 12 MacBook (I disclosed to the user the keyboard was replaced). Do you think apple had an ethical discussion. Nope they discussed the bottom dollar never mind regular joe smooze out there who cannot randomly drop $1000 to little jimmy going to college and he gets a defective keyboard. I know some poster called me entitled a few days ago so I’m embracing my entitlement lol but please Apple didn’t lose sleep over keyboard-gate and you shouldn’t either. Buy both keep the one you want. Apple will refurbish the returned item and resell it for a healthy margin. /endthread

 

[profcutter]

Yeah, I agree. These posts always end the same way. Some of us argue from a solid basis in economics that if Apple was suffering so much from returns they’d simply change the policy.

Others will argue that precious Apple could have irreparable damage to its bottom line because someone returned a computer worth 4k tops and the company’s value dances with 1 trillion dollars. They’ll use problematic logic like “you wouldn’t steal your grandma’s computer, so why are you stealing from Apple,” when the OP is suggesting nothing of the sort. Or the argument that if everyone who purchased a computer returned it to Apple, it would cripple the company. No one is suggesting everyone do it, but those who need to should. Like you pointed out, Apple, like every other company, has knowingly sold faulty products, and most of us who had them were never reimbursed. I had an iPhone 6 Plus, it suffered from touch disease, I just had to pay to upgrade it. Anyway, I’m quite certain I won’t convince anyone who’s determined to prove that returning a computer per the company’s own return policy is morally wrong.

There will be no resolution, neither side convinces the other, and the OP is right back where they started.

 

[iRun26.2]

Ethics im so gonna get down voted for this but throw that out of the window.

Apple shipped a stupidly defective keyboard for close to 5 years sold millions of them (I bought 2) and STUCK WITH THE COMPANY LINE ”it is working as intended and there is nothing wrong with them“ but a spec of dust can cripple my $1400 and $1200 computer. I ended up selling the MacBook 12 after the keyboard was fixed, for $700 and lost $700 to get away from that 12 MacBook (I disclosed to the user the keyboard was replaced). Do you think apple had an ethical discussion. Nope they discussed the bottom dollar never mind regular joe smooze out there who cannot randomly drop $1000 to little jimmy going to college and he gets a defective keyboard. I know some poster called me entitled a few days ago so I’m embracing my entitlement lol but please Apple didn’t lose sleep over keyboard-gate and you shouldn’t either. Buy both keep the one you want. Apple will refurbish the returned item and resell it for a healthy margin. /endthread

But what is ethical for a person to do should not be defined relative to whether or not what was done to them was ethical or not. (What I chose to do should not be dependent upon what Apple did to their customers on the butterfly keyboard). An unethical decision doesn’t warrant one in the opposite direction.

 

[smokesletsgo]

I wonder where do these non-defect returns go. For example, if someone orders 3 MacBook Air's - gold, space gray, silver just to see what color they'd like (I'm sure it happens), do other two go to the refurbished store just because of open-box? Sounds very inefficient. They probably just get repackaged.

Either way, I wouldn't worry, do as you can, because it's not your decision - it's Apple's. Whatever stance you'll take, it will have 0 impact. You may be this very thoughtful, considerate person but others might return 3 more just for the color, so in the end only Apple can make the decision if they see these things hurt them. It probably doesn't. Return policy gives a demo for potential customers who otherwise maybe wouldn't even think of buying, thus increases the chances of selling the product.

 

[maflynn]

I wonder where do these non-defect returns go.

Apple sells them as refurbs

(What I chose to do should not be dependent upon what Apple did to their customers on the butterfly keyboard)

Ethics is not a popularity contest, but all too often it is viewed as that, i.e., everyone is doing it, so it must be ok, or through justification, i.e., this multibillion dollar company has screwed its customers over, so my actions are ok.

With that said, we as consumers have rights, and I think the general consensus here, is that the OP is free to exercise those rights.

 

[LeeW]

In these times of lockdown/restrictions, I wouldn't want to stand for an hour in a store playing with display models. So I would order both to test at home for a period and return what I didn't want.

 

[TechRunner]

Adding my two cents here: It seems like you've already narrowed your numerous choices in the Apple kingdom down to two, so it's not like you're going to order six different computers over a two-week period and return five of them. To me, you've done the most important work through research; now you just need to pick the ONE. And you even have a test plan in place to help you do that. It seems like a very ordered approach to me, so, as others have already, I vote you order both and return the one that doesn't make the cut.

 

[MrGimper]

Agree with maflynn. Apple offers you the option, use it. The generous returns policy is part of the price. There is nothing unethical about using it.

Agreed, that's why we pay premiums