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The First Nonsmoking Nation

I hate smokeing so much because I am somewhat biased as i have Reynaud's syndrome which my veins go into spasms when exposed to nicotine or extreme cold, this means that if i breath in secondary smoke it gives me massive headaches and i get numb fingers and toes, this is horrible for when i'm going out with friends and have to ask to leave a pub if it's smokey.
 
AppleMatt said:
What? That's not a choice, being forced to go out of my way to find another pub. Anyway, as you're not from the UK I'll cut some slack, the only pubs in the UK which disallow smoking are (very few) Wetherspoons, and it's usually just banned at the bar. This is the same chain of pubs FHM magazines readers voted the worse for service in the UK. So no...I'm not going to drive to the next city to hopefully stumble on one of them.

Re-read my post, all I was saying (from the bit "Personal:") was that I get a sore throat from it. No-where did I suggest my pub should ban smoking. I'm very friendly with the landlord, it would seriously damage his livelihood.

AppleMatt
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Sorry, meant no ill. I guess I looked at your post in the light that it followed some pretty "harsh" thoughts on smokers, and thought that you were on that train as well.
 
How about if we banned drinking? Drunk drivers are more deadly than second-hand smoke. Then we can ban butter. People put it in my food at restaurants all the time. I guess I'll sue them when I have a heart attack. Then we'll ban clothing. My grandmother was "forced" to work in a textile mill and she is routinely in the hospital because of the crap she breathed in every day. Gasoline? Those oil refineries make second hand smoke concerns seem laughable if you have to work or live near one. And if we're going to ban things that stink, we'll have to give up paper mills and Mexican food - people who pass gas should be shot.
 
I don't know anybody who smokes. Is that weird. No one from my extended family smokes. Neither any of my friends. I guess we all know smoking is bad and never developed the habit, nor wanted to be "cool". Besides, I sneeze when I get smoke up my nose.
 
Damn, everyone has so missed the point. Think about it..what colour are most Macs? Yes, white. Now what happens to white things when they are in smokers houses? They go a damn ugly yellow colour....think about your poor Macs all before you light up...sheesh.
 
dstorey said:
Damn, everyone has so missed the point. Think about it..what colour are most Macs? Yes, white. Now what happens to white things when they are in smokers houses? They go a damn ugly yellow colour....think about your poor Macs all before you light up...sheesh.
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LOL

I actually feel terrible about my poor iMac, Chuck. He has smoker's lung. All the ventilation holes are surrounded by a brown film. It is seriously gross. But he's still a trooper after all these years (he's a kihei model, and he's nearly 5 years old!)

Anyway, time to trudge out in the snow and have a smoke. (I stopped smoking indoors)
 
dstorey said:
Damn, everyone has so missed the point. Think about it..what colour are most Macs? Yes, white. Now what happens to white things when they are in smokers houses? They go a damn ugly yellow colour....think about your poor Macs all before you light up...sheesh.
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Good thing you've shown up when you have, I can't believe we almost let that point pass us by! Good work!! 😀
 
dstorey said:
Damn, everyone has so missed the point. Think about it..what colour are most Macs? Yes, white. Now what happens to white things when they are in smokers houses? They go a damn ugly yellow colour....think about your poor Macs all before you light up...sheesh.
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iMac G5, eMac, have a clear plastic shell on top of the white body.

This would hold true for the keyboard, cords, edges of the iMac G5 (where there is a slit at the back, bottom, Optical Drive, and around the screen).

Also the iBook in open mode.


And why do you hate a smokey colour for your electronic it could be a new fashion statement. 😉 😛 🙂
 
blackfox said:
while I understand your sentiment, where does it end? would that extend to those who eat fatty foods/unhealthily? to those who drink? To those who choose to live in a polluted Urban center? etc. etc.

While I am happy for Bhutan, I am wary of curbing the right to do something, however unhealthy...
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I think the fundamental problem is that, while fatty foods and drinking also cause health problems, eating fatty foods and drinking alcohol affect only the health of the person engaging in the activity. Smoking, on the other hand, produces second-hand smoke, which harms other people who aren't smoking, in addition to the person who is smoking.

I'm all for people doing whatever they want to their bodies, as long as their disgusting habits don't affect me in any way. I really hate it when people go outside to smoke because they're not allowed to smoke inside, but they literally take one step outside and smoke RIGHT next to the door, so anyone who enters or exits the building has to get a face full of disgusting. There are laws in my city against smoking within 50 feet of a public building entrance, but people don't take it seriously. Maybe the only truely effective measure will be to ban smoking all together.

Before anyone starts up a "i have the right to smoke!". Bullcrap. The government has taken away your "right" to smoke weed and crack cocaine. But you're not complaining about that. To complain that you have the right to smoke while not caring about your "right" to smoke weed and crack is hipocritical.

What about your "right to choose", as most people call it? Isn't that guaranteed by the constitution? No, it is not. There is no clause or article in the constitution or bill of rights that guarantees your "right to choose" anything. I think I have a pretty good example of this. Every state requires drivers to wear seatbelts. What if I don't want to wear a seatbelt? Isn't it my choice if I don't want to wear one? My decision not to wear a seat belt doesn't have the potential to hurt anyone but myself. Don't I have a constitutional right to choose? No, I don't. No one seems to be arguing for their right to wear a seatbelt...

And smoking DOES hurt other people than the person who smokes. I would fully support a nationwide ban on cigarette smoking in the USA, alongside the ban against other addictive, health-destroying drugs such as cocaine, morphine, meth, and so forth.
 
MOFS said:
And by the way "your lives" affect "my lives". In innumerable examples - pubs and bars, insurance, - smoking affects everyone.
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And alcohol affects every one of those items as well. Alcohol kills and causes health problems.

Tobacco. Drinking red wine is thought to be good for you in moderation.
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Moderation is the key to everything in life. Anything can be bad if it's abused. That same wine will kill you if you drink too much.

Furthermore, I resent being called an alcoholic just because I go to bars or pubs.
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Oh oh! Pardon me, sir! I used the word alcoholic for a reason. See, it's no fun to be lumped into a bad group simply because you consume a product which has known negative health effects. Alcohol, tobacco...does it matter in the end?

Unlike the vast majority of smokers, I'm not addicted to drinking.
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And I'm not addicted to tobacco. I haven't had a pipe in days, yet I feel just fine. So why should I be treated like some kind of filthy low-life? Many people use tobacco in moderation without becoming addicted. This discussion is not limited to cigarettes.

And anyway - remember who stays in bars for the longest periods of time? Thats right. Its the people who work behind the bars. Thats why in the UK (as I'm sure the reasoning is in the US and Eire) smoking in public places is being(/has been) phased out. Don't say that they should work somewhere else to avoid smoke - people take whatever jobs they can to earn as much cash as possible to pay the bills.
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Smoking bans in certain buildings (such as a public office building) is a reasonable compromise. Trying to outlaw all forms of tobacco is not reasonable. Telling someone they can't smoke in their own home is not reasonable. Telling someone they can't smoke outside is not reasonable. Persecution of tobacco users simply because it's the latest fad is not reasonable.

I care about my personal freedoms.
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I'm glad you do. However, let's see you say that in the future when some group of elitist fanatics comes and tries to ban something you enjoy. Don't think it can't happen.

Woop de do we don't have a written constitution here. Freedom is all about being free, yes, but I'm sure you're not unhappy about your lack of freedom to grab a gun/ weapon/ car and go on a killing spree.
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You lost me there.

P.S.
I would hope that anyone who is anti-smoke doesn't use any petroleum-fueled vehicle. You wouldn't want to look like a hypocrite, now would you.
🙂
 
Apple Hobo said:
Moderation is the key to everything in life. Anything can be bad if it's abused. That same wine will kill you if you drink too much.
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Except with cigarettes, there is no safe amount. Even second hand smoke can cause health problems. There is no safe cigarette made.
 
wdlove said:
Except with cigarettes, there is no safe amount. Even second hand smoke can cause health problems. There is no safe cigarette made.
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Second hand smoke is extremely dangerous because it isn't smoked through a filter. Approximately 200,000 people (in the US) die per year because of the various cancers caused by second hand smoke.

And with my asthma, I hate cigarettes...
 
Mechcozmo said:
Second hand smoke is extremely dangerous because it isn't smoked through a filter. Approximately 200,000 people (in the US) die per year because of the various cancers caused by second hand smoke.

And with my asthma, I hate cigarettes...
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To be honest, is it the cigarettes that are causing the number of deaths today? There are a number of other factors that may be involved. The increase in prepared foods maybe? More jobs that don't require physical work maybe?

The reason why I ask is that in my family those that held on to what I call the "old ways" of life - hard work, healthy eating; lived longer than those that got into easier jobs (read desk jobs) and ate more prepared foods.
 
You know, I have been reading through this thread, and decent (and sometimes not) points have been made from both sides.

Nevertheless, although I am a smoker, it hardly defines me, and as much as it annoys my sense of self-righteousness, the new laws and attitudes in the US are a good thing imo. They force me to be more conscious of the effects of my habit, which is a good thing.

As I said in a previous post, I make sure not to litter with my butts, a particularily disgusting form of littering. In places I am allowed to smoke, I make a habit of asking people near me (who I don't know) if they mind me smoking, I put out cigarettes when someone is eating near me, or if someone is visably bothered by the smoke and/or the smoke is particularily heavy. On the street, I keep my cigarette down and away from children passing and so forth.

So to those who are against smoking, especially those with a medical condition like Asthma or an allegy, I understand your position. All I ask, is that you make an effort to politely convey your situation to smokers you encounter as they are people too. I cannot promise all will respond in the way I do by habit (ha) now, but it will be better received than some passive-agressive behavior or a tirade. I support no-smoking even in bars, btw. After living and visiting cities with this policy, it doesn't really bother me at all.

We'll all friends here, and we have to share this planet. Often it doesn't work out to be fair in execution, but a little understanding goes a long way...
 
I am not sure what the answer is. We have become too sensitive about too many issues. I agree even as a smoker that smoking is probably the worst out there. But what about peanuts?

Airlines took them off their flights because of allergy issues (though cost cutting may have played a factor). Schools are now banning them from home lunches according to some news reports. What is next, soy milk only?

Of those that speak out against smoking (not just here), what vices do they have that cost society as whole in terms of lost time, income, productivity? What choices have they made that affect society as a whole?

Remember what most religions teach in one way or another; who is without sin - cast the first stone.
 
Hector said:
I hate smokeing so much because I am somewhat biased as i have Reynaud's syndrome which my veins go into spasms when exposed to nicotine or extreme cold, this means that if i breath in secondary smoke it gives me massive headaches and i get numb fingers and toes, this is horrible for when i'm going out with friends and have to ask to leave a pub if it's smokey.
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How many pubs in London aren't smokey? I've not found many...

Hob
 
I feel more than enough points have been made in this thread (both good and bad).

put plainly, smoking is unhealthly... and its one of the few things that even with just a few puffs, it can hurt you more than anything else. remember that when you smoke, you are putting things into your lungs that will probably never come out... but if you drink alchohol, most will pass through your body... same with if you eat fatty foods, it will get put into you body as fat, but you can burn the fat away with excercise...... what im trying to say, is that with most other 'unhealthy' things, its almost only temporary, because you can counteract most bad things you do.... but not with smoking.... theres no magical cure that removes all the tar and other wonderful things from lungs, it stays with you for life....
 
Apple Hobo said:
And alcohol affects every one of those items as well. Alcohol kills and causes health problems.



Moderation is the key to everything in life. Anything can be bad if it's abused. That same wine will kill you if you drink too much.



Oh oh! Pardon me, sir! I used the word alcoholic for a reason. See, it's no fun to be lumped into a bad group simply because you consume a product which has known negative health effects. Alcohol, tobacco...does it matter in the end?



And I'm not addicted to tobacco. I haven't had a pipe in days, yet I feel just fine. So why should I be treated like some kind of filthy low-life? Many people use tobacco in moderation without becoming addicted. This discussion is not limited to cigarettes.



Smoking bans in certain buildings (such as a public office building) is a reasonable compromise. Trying to outlaw all forms of tobacco is not reasonable. Telling someone they can't smoke in their own home is not reasonable. Telling someone they can't smoke outside is not reasonable. Persecution of tobacco users simply because it's the latest fad is not reasonable.



I'm glad you do. However, let's see you say that in the future when some group of elitist fanatics comes and tries to ban something you enjoy. Don't think it can't happen.



You lost me there.

P.S.
I would hope that anyone who is anti-smoke doesn't use any petroleum-fueled vehicle. You wouldn't want to look like a hypocrite, now would you.
🙂
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Boo-ya! ummm... I'm an occasional smoker, which means I'll maybe smoke 2-3 on the average Friday/Saturday night at the pub...

But the one thing that gets me is the fact that it is affecting the health of other people around me. I certainly agree with not smoking in public places, and around the bars... but it gets a bit pointless when the non-smoking section is raised above the smoking section (such as in one of the local pubs)... Yeahhh...

I think, it might just be reasonable to say that nobody, no matter what line of work they're in, should be in a smokey environment, and I'm sorry-but that includes bar staff and waiting staff...

If smoking was banned in pubs in the UK I doubt I'd do it at all...

One might ask why I do it then... the answer is... LOOK OVER THERE!! *runs away*

Hob
 
hob said:
Boo-ya! ummm... I'm an occasional smoker, which means I'll maybe smoke 2-3 on the average Friday/Saturday night at the pub...

But the one thing that gets me is the fact that it is affecting the health of other people around me. I certainly agree with not smoking in public places, and around the bars... but it gets a bit pointless when the non-smoking section is raised above the smoking section (such as in one of the local pubs)... Yeahhh...

I think, it might just be reasonable to say that nobody, no matter what line of work they're in, should be in a smokey environment, and I'm sorry-but that includes bar staff and waiting staff...

If smoking was banned in pubs in the UK I doubt I'd do it at all...

One might ask why I do it then... the answer is... LOOK OVER THERE!! *runs away*

Hob
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A friendly suggestion. If you are only doing a few in the pub, stop now. That is how many of us smokers got hooked. YMMV, but stop now while it is easy.
 
I love the purely hypocritical nature of smoking bans though, especially in the US. I smoke when I drink, which isn't often, but my lungs are far more irritated, and I begin to cough more from the highway and industrial pollution all around me when my car windows are down during the summer than I do in a pub. It's not about the health effects of smoking in most industrialized countries... its a freaking scapegoat, and there should be far more public outcry towards less obvious agents of harm. Lets talk carcinogens, like genetically modified crops, food preservatives, steroid pumped livestock, industrial waste, nuclear waste, fluoridated water, etc, etc, or other causes of unjust/immoral harm, like wars for oil, and simply choosing to ignore real crises (cough, darfur, cough). I can understand not wanting to breathe in second hand smoke, which is far more irritating to the lungs than first hand, but the 'anti-smoking movements' are totally over-zealous, and place the blame of too many problems on smokers and tobacco companies.
Best part of the ban in that country though...
"Authorities heralded the ban by igniting a bonfire of cigarette cartons in the capital..."
I'm sure that was great for the lungs of all of those joyous celebrants around the 'second-hand' bonfire.
 
chanoc said:
"Any non-smokers here? Good because I have something important to tell you! Ready? Okay here it goes: non-smokers die every day. 😱

Sleep tight! 😀 "

- Bill Hicks
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True, but non-smokers don't make other people sick just by being near them.
 
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