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The First Nonsmoking Nation

wdlove said:
A government shouldn't have the power to pass laws restricting freedom. If your activity isn't hurting anyone, then you shouldn't be told no.
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Amen. It's one thing not to pay for the health care costs that smoking creates, or to tax tobacco to pay for it, but it's patronizing and just plain wrong to tell people that they can't do something that doesn't hurt anyone else (sorry, I don't buy the secondhand smoke BS).

Keep in mind that this is coming from someone who finds cigarettes utterly disgusting not to mention stupid beyond belief. But it's not about tobacco, it's about the right (or lack thereof) of government to tell me what I can and can't put in my own body when it doesn't hurt anyone else.
 
Chip NoVaMac said:
A friendly suggestion. If you are only doing a few in the pub, stop now. That is how many of us smokers got hooked. YMMV, but stop now while it is easy.
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Ok, several points:

1. I believe this is my 500th post. Woohoo

2. I'm gonna try not to have any more ever again ever. (i meant cigarettes not posts)

3. I'm now starting the WTF Foundation for Abolishment of Acronyms... What does YMMV stand for?! I'm normally good at these things... like when reading The Register earlier I worked out in my head that MVNO's stood for Mobile Virtual Network Operator's... (Go me)

Hob :D
 
hob said:
Ok, several points:

1. I believe this is my 500th post. Woohoo

2. I'm gonna try not to have any more ever again ever. (i meant cigarettes not posts)

3. I'm now starting the WTF Foundation for Abolishment of Acronyms... What does YMMV stand for?! I'm normally good at these things... like when reading The Register earlier I worked out in my head that MVNO's stood for Mobile Virtual Network Operator's... (Go me)

Hob :D
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Your Mileage May Vary - the same experience may have a different effect on you. No idea where it came from though :)
 
Chip NoVaMac said:
Sorry, meant no ill. I guess I looked at your post in the light that it followed some pretty "harsh" thoughts on smokers, and thought that you were on that train as well.
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No probs ;)

AppleMatt
 
QCassidy352 said:
Amen. It's one thing not to pay for the health care costs that smoking creates, or to tax tobacco to pay for it, but it's patronizing and just plain wrong to tell people that they can't do something that doesn't hurt anyone else (sorry, I don't buy the secondhand smoke BS).
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it may not hurt the average person but it is extremely harmful to people like me and asthmatics, it got so bad with me that my blood pressure got so high due to my jugular vein being constricted that when i was at school someone slapped the back of my head i fell unconscious and this was just after waiting for a bus in the rain in a bus shelter where 5-6 people were smoking near me, it put's other people out, if you want to smoke do so on your own property or in designated smoking area's, personally i would like it banned like heroin and crack cocaine are, tobacco is no better than those drugs.
 
edesignuk said:
I know, I know, It'll never happen and that's because of these other possibilties you stated. But, I still hate to see my hard earned tax money go to idiots who still continue to smoke/start to smoke when the dangers are well known.

Just to add to that, anyone who get's ill from smoking has no sympothy from me! :eek:
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Of course, the fatal flaw in your argument here is that NONE of your hard earned tax payments are spent on subsidising idiots who smoke.

The money raised by the tax on cigarettes (remember, more than 80% of the cost of a pack of cigarettes is tax) is far greater than the amount that is spent on smoking related diseases by the NHS.

The truth is, if you break you arm and go to an NHS hospital, your healthcare is being subsidised by the smokers who have paid over and above the odds.

I say this as someone who hates smoking, has never smoked, and never will, but who knows a little about the economics involved in the system.

Lastly, to say that you would have no sympathy to people who got sick from smoking suggests you are not a very pleasant person because the majority of smokers today began smoking before they became aware of the health risks of doing so, and they were addicted by the time it became common knowledge.

Floop
 
hob said:
Boo-ya! ummm... I'm an occasional smoker, which means I'll maybe smoke 2-3 on the average Friday/Saturday night at the pub...

But the one thing that gets me is the fact that it is affecting the health of other people around me. I certainly agree with not smoking in public places, and around the bars... but it gets a bit pointless when the non-smoking section is raised above the smoking section (such as in one of the local pubs)... Yeahhh...

I think, it might just be reasonable to say that nobody, no matter what line of work they're in, should be in a smokey environment, and I'm sorry-but that includes bar staff and waiting staff...

If smoking was banned in pubs in the UK I doubt I'd do it at all...

One might ask why I do it then... the answer is... LOOK OVER THERE!! *runs away*

Hob
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LOL!

Was thinking that our government could help by raising the age at which you can legally smoke to 18. Kinda shows the wrong message when you say that smoking is wrong and then allow school children to do it legally. :eek:
 
MOFS said:
LOL!

Was thinking that our government could help by raising the age at which you can legally smoke to 18. Kinda shows the wrong message when you say that smoking is wrong and then allow school children to do it legally. :eek:
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I didn't start at school, it was when I'd been going to the pub a year or two, aged 17!
 
edesignuk said:
You blow smoke in my face and I should be perfectly entitled to turn round and punch you in the face.
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Woo Hoo!!!

Please to see someone else agrees with me!!

Good to know that the Tobacco industry will hopefully be extinct this century.
 
QCassidy352 said:
Amen. It's one thing not to pay for the health care costs that smoking creates, or to tax tobacco to pay for it, but it's patronizing and just plain wrong to tell people that they can't do something that doesn't hurt anyone else (sorry, I don't buy the secondhand smoke BS).

Keep in mind that this is coming from someone who finds cigarettes utterly disgusting not to mention stupid beyond belief. But it's not about tobacco, it's about the right (or lack thereof) of government to tell me what I can and can't put in my own body when it doesn't hurt anyone else.
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Please see the post I made on this topic earlier. Post number #60.
 
the argument that smokers pay for themselves is a pure bull **** argument the whole industry produces nothing and just makes the poor poorer, the amount that the average smoker spends on cigarets is dicusting i dont smoke so i'm guessing with these calculations but if your a on a pack a day and here i think a pack costs about £5 then thats £1825 a year on ciggs, now 75% may be going to the NHS but the rest go's to the tobacco companies to just pump back into a pointless system, now if the nation did not smoke that £2,000 could go to better uses such as starting up businesses or education.

it's a drain on the economy just like gambling is the world would be a much better place without tobbaco and all those that defend it look like fools to me (no offence but it's my opinion i'm just being honest, i dont know what it is like to be addicted to somthing and if you started before the risks were known you have my sympathy)
 
Hector said:
it's a drain on the economy
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Hector: While I'm inclined to agree with you that the world would be a much better place without tobacco, it is simply incorrect to state that it represents a drain on the economy.

As mentioned previously in this thread, tax revenues from tobacco products amount to £9 Billion per year in the UK alone. Without this revenue, income or other taxes would have to be raised in order to make up the shortfall. In addition, the tobacco industry employs approximately 12,000 people in the UK.

The world would be a much better place without crime as well, but as with tobacco, it's an integral part of our economy.
 
did you not comprehend my post? my point was that the people that smoke saving that £2000 a year will benefit the country far more than a system that just wastes resources, look at the bigger picture, without this massive drain on people incomes it allows them to have far more successful lives, it's just stealing from the poor to gain tax pounds and to make them die earlier as to not burden country in there old age, such a system disgusts me, a non smoking person can go on working for longer as they stay healthy for longer.

look at the bigger picture here and view it as a country not as an individual.
 
Hector said:
did you not comprehend my post?
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I did comprehend your post, but I can't comprehend how smokers being £2k better off per year is likely to replace the loss of £9 Billion in tobacco tax revenues.

In all likelihood, that saved money would be spent on goods and services that attract a standard 17.5% in tax. There's still a massive shortfall that you've yet to account for.

Yes, healthy people can go on working for longer, but unlike old retired people, old dead people don't require pension payments, ongoing medical treatment, etc. You acknowledge as much in your post.

I am looking at the bigger picture. Your sentiments are admirable, but they're at odds with fiscal reality.
 
well, the news today is that JD Weatherspoons are banning smoking in all of their chains within the next two years. good news i say, bring on the ban.
 
russed said:
well, the news today is that JD Weatherspoons are banning smoking in all of their chains within the next two years. good news i say, bring on the ban.
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Good stuff :D One place where I will be able to go and leave without my clothes stinking of other peoples smoke!
 
edesignuk said:
Good stuff :D One place where I will be able to go and leave without my clothes stinking of other peoples smoke!
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yup it is good news. here is the link if anyone fancies a read.

i think the worse think (over a hang over) is waking up to find your room smelling like an ash tray due to your clothes having festered over night. lovely. i guess i will get the febreeze out.
 
I think that move on Weatherspoons' part is really good. I'll be visiting the Playhouse in Colchester more often then. The other good news is that I'm sure other chains will be watching carefully and then follow suit: Yates', Edwards, Lloyds, Walkabout... hopefully clubs as well.

Regarding the freedom debate - I don't see how there is much of a case there. Smoking is the only lawful thing that you can buy that is knowingly harmful without any other use. It's known full well that most of the thousands of chemicals in each breath of cigarette smoke is poisonous or carcinogenic in some way, and to say that if I walk into a pub where I can't even see the bar for all the smoke, that I'm not in any way affected by it is complete nonsense. I'm just glad, that with increasing numbers of non-smoking pubs in the next year or two, I'll actually be able to avoid smoke through choice and still relax in a pub.
 
mouchoir said:
If we were to ban smoking edesign, you might find you have to pay even more tax to supplement the huge loss of earnings the government makes from the currently huge tax smokers pay for their fags.

Plus the aforementioned other vices such as alcohol and eating bad foods are just as costly to the health system.

where would it stop?
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True, but if I were to eat a Big Mac, it doesn't make anyone else any fatter. And, while even one cigarette is harmful to your health, a pint of alcohol or the odd burger isn't going to cause any problems. (Balanced diet and all that ;) ).

Oh and people claim that fatty fast foods are addictive, but I'm unconvinced that it is in the same way as tabacco. Not to mention, it may be MacDonald's and Burger King that get most of the bad press, but that sandwich in Greg's or that sausage roll in the local pastry shop is no more healthy for you, nor is that mayo-filled Marks & Spencer sandwich - the difference here is that people think the latter are the healthy option when they are not necessarily! (Pick a meal in the Sainsbury's magazine and look at the fat content in it - many portions have 50+ g of fat - more than a Supersize Big Mac meal!)
 
johnnyjibbs said:
True, but if I were to eat a Big Mac, it doesn't make anyone else any fatter. And, while even one cigarette is harmful to your health, a pint of alcohol or the odd burger isn't going to cause any problems. (Balanced diet and all that ;) ).

Oh and people claim that fatty fast foods are addictive, but I'm unconvinced that it is in the same way as tabacco. Not to mention, it may be MacDonald's and Burger King that get most of the bad press, but that sandwich in Greg's or that sausage roll in the local pastry shop is no more healthy for you, nor is that mayo-filled Marks & Spencer sandwich - the difference here is that people think the latter are the healthy option when they are not necessarily! (Pick a meal in the Sainsbury's magazine and look at the fat content in it - many portions have 50+ g of fat - more than a Supersize Big Mac meal!)
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Well, it all comes down to choice in the end.

I'm not against banning smoking in bars – I managed to survive 10 days in new york last year, I even enjoyed the smokeless enviroment as funnily enough I hate smoky rooms even though I smoke.

Actually got to meet and chat to more people than the time I went there before the ban, while leaving the bar to have a fag, i'd always end up stood next to several others like myself outside the gaff.

I've never tried eating a sainsbury's magazine myself, but I'll take your word for the high fat content.
 
mouchoir said:
I've never tried eating a sainsbury's magazine myself, but I'll take your word for the high fat content.
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:D :D :D

Sorry for having a dig, it's just it annoys me when certain smokers (not necessarily you) go on about smokers' rights, yet are seemingly unaware of what they are doing when they walk into a pub, sit down next to a group of non-smokers and start puffing away, their arm generally glancing towards the non-smokers, while their smoke is drifting over them and everyone else. And it only takes one or two people smoking in a pub to ruin it for everyone else.

It seems like banning smoking in pubs, etc would do a lot of good for smokers as well as non-smokers.
 
johnnyjibbs said:
:D :D :D

Sorry for having a dig, it's just it annoys me when certain smokers (not necessarily you) go on about smokers' rights, yet are seemingly unaware of what they are doing when they walk into a pub, sit down next to a group of non-smokers and start puffing away, their arm generally glancing towards the non-smokers, while their smoke is drifting over them and everyone else. And it only takes one or two people smoking in a pub to ruin it for everyone else.

It seems like banning smoking in pubs, etc would do a lot of good for smokers as well as non-smokers.
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no offence taken.

It is quite annoying when some non-smokers) so black and white and get so offensive towards things which they don't seem to have put much thought into. I mean – punch me in the face for smoking?!

its kind of like the mac vs pc debate that goes on here. people are quick to lose rational thought and get overheated

edited for unfair comment of fellow poster which is now retracted, rolled into a fat one and smoked.
 
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