The Freebies Thread

[B S Magnet]

Congrats! I'm looking forward to seeing how you get on with this.

I’m thinking of posting an iMac7,1 thread to see what kind of reception it gets over on the Early Intel Macs forum. I’m guessing a potpourri of the seasoned regulars and the tartness-slash-dismissiveness of the hardcore iMac folk who recently found a lot of their stuff migrated over to the EIM forum. The latter, incidentally, is why I haven’t done it yet.

 

[ToniCH]

I now have a super-basement A1224 iMac7,1 from which to make a budget thing better (instead of making it to a landfill/recycling).

Short-term tasks: trying to locate a Core 2 Extreme X9000 I can afford and, also, throwing in a simple, small SSD (120GB) I have lying about, to replace the rust.

I’m open to suggestions on what other improvements could come of this chonky boi!

Its no rocketship but I am sure few mods will liven it up nicely. SSD is the best upgrade for it you can actually feel. RAM next but 6GB max only. This guy says you can go up to T9500 CPU.

I have upgraded my iMac A1312's (late 2009 and mid 2011 27") in various ways. Don't know if there is options for a better GPU for 2007-models, for later models there are. But one thing to note: there are 2 form factors for iMac GPU's: smaller and bigger. In 2009-2011 models you use the smaller with the 21.5" models and larger for the 27" models. The bigger ones do not fit the smaller chassis. No idea if they would fit or work in 2007 though. In any case note that there are lots of GPU failures and the Apple Radeon originals will fail sooner or later so they might not be a good buy unless almost free.

 

[TheShortTimer]

The latter, incidentally, is why I haven’t done it yet.

Go for it. That's our forum - we clamoured for its creation and should be able to post about relevant topics without unwarranted hostility from others.

Besides, I'll have your back.

 

[Amethyst1]

That's our forum - we clamoured for its creation and should be able to post about relevant topics without unwarranted hostility from others.

Indeed. And remember: the Ignore list is there for a reason.

 

[B S Magnet]

Its no rocketship but I am sure few mods will liven it up nicely. SSD is the best upgrade for it you can actually feel. RAM next but 6GB max only. This guy says you can go up to T9500 CPU.

My baseline point of reference here is my A1261 early 2008 MacBook Pro which runs a T9500 CPU with the GeForce 8600M GT (with 512MB VRAM) and a WD Blue SSD. My aim is two-fold: to “Penrynize” this iMac and to have it benchmark higher than my A1261.

Although his video purports to work “only” with a T9500 as the top end of things, the heavily cited post I made on last page hints that an X9000 — released alongside the T9300 and T9500 — may also work (as all are designed for the 800MHz FSB). This is where my attention is focussed for this project.

He also remarked how the Radeon HD 2600 Pro, with 256MB VRAM, is the limit of how upgradeable the GPU is from the standard Radeon HD 2600 XT with 128MB VRAM. Frankly, this seems slightly surprising. Initially, I was going to post on the EIM forum and ask whether the GeForce 9400/9600 line from later in 2008 might work within a “Penrynized” system.

And, of course, this brings up the lesser-discussed question of whether the iMac7,1 firmware can be bumped up to the iMac8,1 (which was a Penryn from the outset). All of these are the kinds of things I’ll want to tinker with as I’m able.

I have upgraded my iMac A1312's (late 2009 and mid 2011 27") in various ways. Don't know if there is options for a better GPU for 2007-models, for later models there are. But one thing to note: there are 2 form factors for iMac GPU's: smaller and bigger. In 2009-2011 models you use the smaller with the 21.5" models and larger for the 27" models. The bigger ones do not fit the smaller chassis. No idea if they would fit or work in 2007 though. In any case note that there are lots of GPU failures and the Apple Radeon originals will fail sooner or later so they might not be a good buy unless almost free.

I’m aware of the MXM-A and MXM-B form factors being different, but I’ve no experience tinkering with video cards.

But a general awareness of the GPU issues in the Radeon HD 2600s is another reason why I’d like to source one of the GeForce MXM GPUs — ideally the 9400M series from the early 2009 20-inch model or the GeForce GT 120 (from the early 2009 24-inch, though it may be the larger form factor you noted above). I doubt anything more beyond that generation would play nice, but this is nothing better than an educated guess.

Unfortunately, there is a voluminous, but informative thread on the EIM forum pertaining specifically to the A1311/A1312s and swapped in GPUs (which desperately needs an information architect/copy editor to make it user-friendly), but there is no such analogue thread for the A1224/A1225s.

 

[TheShortTimer]

Indeed. And remember: the Ignore list is there for a reason.

Likewise with the report button.

 

[Amethyst1]

But a general awareness of the GPU issues in the Radeon HD 2600s is another reason why I’d like to source one of the GeForce MXM GPUs — ideally the 9400M series from the early 2009 20-inch model […]

This isn’t a discrete GPU. It's integrated into the NVIDIA chipset. ´

 

[B S Magnet]

This isn’t a discrete GPU. Its integrated into the NVIDIA chipset.

Ohhhh… so unlike the early 2008 MBPs, which used an nvidia GPU on an Intel chipset, the iMac models using the 9400M, much like the late 2008 MBP, also needed an nvidia chipset for the 9400M for the system to function?

Likewise with the report button.

Aside from nominating threads to be moved to appropriate forums, I have little faith in the report button to flag conduct, given the chronic inaction of how those report weren’t handled during the pesky dying days of PRSI.

 

[Amethyst1]

Ohhhh… so unlike the early 2008 MBPs, which used an nvidia GPU on an Intel chipset, the iMac models using the 9400M, much like the late 2008 MBP, also needed an nvidia chipset for the 9400M for the system to function?

Yuppie.

But replacing the internal GPU is BOOOORING. Yank the back cover and the AirPort card, install an mPCIe-to-PCIe adapter, chuck in a big fat GPU (GeForce GTX 980 Ti anyone?) powered by a monster ATX PSU and drive some external 4K display(s) like this bloke

 

[B S Magnet]

Yuppie.

But replacing the internal GPU is BOOOORING. Yank the back cover and the AirPort card, install an mPCIe-to-PCIe adapter, chuck in a big fat GPU (GeForce GTX 980 Ti anyone?) powered by a monster ATX PSU and drive some external 4K display(s) like this bloke

That’s just… bananas.

(Also, why did nvidia do that with the 9000 series but not the 8000 series? Incidentally, I take note the early 2008 24-inch C2D model using a 8800 GS GPU and all lower-end from that series using Radeons, despite the chipset being Intel across all of them.)

 

[Amethyst1]

That’s just… bananas.

If you decide to go for this route, I'll pay for the 980 Ti. Deal?

(Also, why did nvidia do that with the 9000 series but not the 8000 series?)

Do what?

 

[B S Magnet]

If you decide to go for this route, I'll pay for the 980 Ti. Deal?

There’d be no way to close up that case! I‘d have to leave the front glass out of the way!

Do what?

Macs with the GeForce 8600M GT, such as the MBPs, had Intel chipsets (handling the SATA bus and the like); the Macs with the GeForce 9400M/9600/etc., such as the late 2008 and 2009 MBPs, were models with nVidia chipsets for the SATA bus (something dosdude1 mentioned in passing for those folks who wanted to change the start-up chimes on their Macs — but only for those models with Intel chipsets).

What I was asking you was why did nvidia allow the 8600M GT to work on a Mac model with an Intel chipset on the logic board, but a GeForce 9400M would not work on a Mac with an Intel chipset (such as the late 2007 or early 2008 iMacs)? Or, am I completely misunderstanding the relationship between chipset environment and GPU manufacturer?

 

[Amethyst1]

There’s be no way to close back up that case!

The full-size PCIe slot, GPU and PSU for the GPU would all be external (see this listing [not mine!!!]). You'd just have to find a way to route the thin cable that connects the mPCIe slot to the full-size PCIe slot out of the case. And you'd have a whole bunch of stuff lying around on your desk.

I‘d have to leave the front glass out of the way!

The front would be left untouched. (Or am I not getting the pun here? )

What I was asking you was why did nvidia allow the 8600M GT work on a Mac model with an Intel chipset on the logic board, but a GeForce 9400M would not work on MAc with an Intel chipset, such as the late 2007 or early 2008 iMacs?

The GeForce 9400M wasn't available as a separate chip, unlike the e.g. 8600M or 9600M. You could only get it as a part of a complete NVIDIA chipset, which would then also handle SATA and other stuff.

 

[B S Magnet]

The full-size PCIe slot, GPU and PSU for the GPU would all be external (see this listing [not mine!!!]). You'd just have to find a way to route the thin cable that connects the mPCIe slot to the full-size PCIe slot out of the case. And you'd have a whole bunch of stuff lying around on your desk.

This might be a fun exercise if I had extra displays lying around. Alas, I do not.

The front would be left untouched. (Or am I not getting the pun here? )

Not a pun. I’m just aware, thanks to iFixit, how to get at components internally, one must first remove the front glass.

The GeForce 9400M wasn't available as a separate chip, unlike the e.g. 8600M or 9600M.

OK, that I understand. Thank you.

You could only get it as a part of a complete NVIDIA chipset, which would then also handle SATA and other stuff.

So if I understand this correctly, would the GeForce 8800 GS in the early 2008 BTO/CTO iMac8,1 possibly work in this model, or no chance?

 

[Amethyst1]

I’m just aware, thanks to iFixit, how to get at components internally, one must first remove the front glass.

Of course, yes. Huge brainfart on my part.

So if I understand this correctly, would the GeForce 8800 GS in the early 2008 BTO/CTO iMac8,1 possibly work in this model, or no chance?

It is a discrete chip, so unless there's some other incompatibility, it could possibly work. But aren't those known for failing too?

 

[B S Magnet]

Of course, yes. Huge brainfart on my part.

No worries.

It is a discrete chip, so unless there's some other incompatibility, it could possibly work. But aren't those known for failing too?

Are they? I know very little about the 8800.

EDIT to add: I’m having fun with this page.

 

[Amethyst1]

Are they? I know very little about the 8800.

Per some quick sleuthing, it looks like they are.

 

[retta283]

Yes, don't touch an 8800GS with anyone else's 10-foot pole. They are just as bad as the 8600m in the 2007/08 MBPs, they've been dying the whole 15 years they've been available.

For what it's worth the 8800GS that Apple put in that iMac is not an actual 8800GS, it's something else just rebranded. They used to do that a lot.

 

[Amethyst1]

For what it's worth the 8800GS that Apple put in that iMac is not an actual 8800GS, it's something else just rebranded.

Yeah, it’s some mobile 8800. But the Radeon 2400/2600’s are also rebranded mobile chips.

 

[B S Magnet]

Yeah, it’s some mobile 8800. But the Radeon 2400/2600’s are also rebranded mobile chips.

I had a little more time to look through those cards’ specs.

I get a sense that this one might be, probably, the most suitable and, performance-wise, a positive bump from what’s in the iMac right now. As far as I’m aware, the 9600M GT isn’t one of the infamous “trouble GPUs”.

 

[Amethyst1]

I get a sense that this one might be, probably, the most suitable and, performance-wise, a positive bump from what’s in the iMac right now.

No iMac shipped with the 9600M AFAICS (only MBPs did) so if you find a 9600M MXM you’ll have to flash it with a Mac ROM, assuming there’s one for it.

 

[B S Magnet]

No iMac shipped with the 9600M AFAICS (only MBPs did) so if you find a 9600M MXM you’ll have to flash it with a Mac ROM, assuming there’s one for it.

That’s baffling that the specs link I shared indicated there was an MXM-II version of it, but apparently not?

Even more baffling: that firmware for flashing the ROM (found within one of the OS X builds/updates) for the GeForce 9600M GT doesn’t exist, even within the circles of communities which like to try out different GPUs — or, more oddly, that OS X wouldn’t detect the card as a GeForce 9600M GT, determine that the firmware is out-of-date and/or incorrect, and not run unless a system update (with that firmware ROM update included) first occurred.

Then again, the universe of graphics cards is intimidating af, and it’s why I don’t own a bunch of drop-in GPUs and external displays: it seems an expensive hardware sidebar to explore. Heck, I wouldn’t even know how to properly flash a card since, I’d imagine, the card couldn’t be flashed from that iMac.

And not even OCLP could recognize the GPU if the MXM-II was pulled from another, non-Apple system?

(My goodness, I feel both stupid and overwhelmed, but also annoyed by how Apple play like this with even their early Intel products.)

 

[Amethyst1]

That’s baffling that the specs link I shared indicated there was an MXM-II version of it, but apparently not?

The photo on the page shows an ASUS MXM module, also shown on the page for the non-Mac version. So I'd take the info on that page with a grain of salt.

Even more baffling: that firmware for flashing the ROM (found within one of the OS X builds/updates) for the GeForce 9600M GT doesn’t exist, even within the circles of communities which like to try out different GPUs — or, more oddly, that OS X wouldn’t detect the card as a GeForce 9600M GT, determine that the firmware is out-of-date and/or incorrect, and not run unless a system update (with that firmware ROM update included) first occurred.

OS X has never included firmware for flashing non-Apple GPUs or detected them and asked for them to be flashed. When it comes to non-flashed GPUs, there are two cases:

• The GPU is too old to be "self-initialised", in which case the GPU won't do anything.
• The GPU is new enough to be self-init'd in which case the GPU will start working once OS X has booted.

For NVIDIA, Kepler GPUs (GeForce 600/700) self-init and @TheShortTimer has a Fermi GPU (GeForce 400/500) that self-init's. The 9600M is a Tesla GPU so it may be too old to self-init.

And not even OCLP could recognize the GPU if the MXM-II was pulled from another, non-Apple system?

OCLP can provide a boot screen on non-flashed GPUs. This is meant to be used in conjunction with newer GPUs that self-init, so I don't know what happens if you use it with a non-flashed, non-self-init'ing GPU. (I suppose it's possible that display output is lost once OS X has taken over, or that OS X runs using some non-accelerated VESA mode, which would be glitchy and slow.)

 

[B S Magnet]

The photo on the page shows an ASUS MXM module, also shown on the page for the non-Mac version. So I'd take the info on that page with a grain of salt.

Fair.

OS X has never included firmware for flashing non-Apple GPUs or detected them and asked for them to be flashed. When it comes to non-flashed GPUs, there are two cases:

• The GPU is too old to be "self-initialised", in which case the GPU won't do anything.
• The GPU is new enough to be self-init'd in which case the GPU will start working once OS X has booted.

For NVIDIA, Kepler GPUs (GeForce 600/700) self-init and @TheShortTimer has a Fermi GPU (GeForce 400/500) that self-init's. The 9600M is a Tesla GPU so it may be too old to self-init.

This is, to my ears, both amusing and vexatious — amusing due to the clunkiness of how graphics cards are handled (or in how they handle themselves, for those which self-init), and vexatious because this runs so far afield of the idea of “plug-and-play” for components relating to Macs of that time period and earlier.

OCLP can provide a boot screen on non-flashed GPUs. This is meant to be used in conjunction with newer GPUs that self-init, so I don't know what happens if you use it with a non-flashed, non-self-init'ing GPU. (I suppose it's possible that display output is lost once OS X has taken over, or that OS X runs using some non-accelerated VESA mode, which would be glitchy and slow.)

Huh. OK. Thanks for the explanation overview.

Nevertheless, this remains a head-scratcher for me. How is it that no one, even on the down-low, tried dumping the ROM from the 9600M GT bundled in the 2008–09 MacBook Pros equipped with it?

 

[Amethyst1]

This is, to my ears, both amusing and vexatious — amusing due to the clunkiness of how graphics cards are handled (or in how they handle themselves, for those which self-init), and vexatious because this runs so far afield of the idea of “plug-and-play” for components relating to Macs of that time period and earlier.

I totally get your point. Unflashed graphics cards have traditionally never worked OOTB in Macs though, and only the implementation of “self-init’ing” (in Snow Leopard, for ATI Radeon HD 5000/6000) has made it possible to use them in a plug-and-play fashion, if you can live with not seeing a thing until OS X reaches the login window.

However, there is a technique one might call “enabling.” It comes from the Hackintosh scene and makes OS X take to graphics cards used in these, which are — by nature — unflashed. What this means is that you may well get an unflashed non-self-init’ing 9600M working if you find a way to enable it.