The greed of Disney

[NameUndecided]

You can buy a Disney blu-ray or 4K disc for pretty much the same price on release week as any other studio, $22-$30.
You can redeem the digital code from a 4K Disney disc for a 4K copy of the film in Vudu.
You can also buy a 4K digital copy directly in Vudu for a bit more than their 1080p version.
There are 4K devices that play Vudu movies in 4K. The Apple TV isn't one of them right now, but the option is there.

Soo… Disney just didn't want to join other studios in selling their 4K content for the same price as 1080p in order to help Apple look good (and, you know, whatever Apple might have offered as incentive but Disney didn't find worthwhile).
That kind of sucks for us and for Apple, but it's their prerogative.

I honestly think it's part of Disney's longstanding effort to differentiate from other studios by creating an air of exclusivity and not coming off as bargin-bin. I don't see it as much as simple greed as it is maintaining a corporate identity. Bully on the other multi-billion dollar corporation on not being able to crack that nut this time around.

Anyway. The Last Jedi in 4K and HDR. It's accessible. Maybe even through a streaming device that costs a third the amount of an Apple TV 4K.* But what're you gonna do. Sometimes companies charge more than seems reasonable to some, but is continuing to prove profitable to the producer.

*maybe through a built-in app on the 4K TV you already own. I just googled. it does on mine. neat!.

 

[AZhappyjack]

So I bought the 4K TV and I bought the excellent 4K apple TV.
I then went to prepurchase The Last Jedi on iTunes last week.

Imagine my shock and then disgust to learn that Disney are refusing to play ball like all of the other studios and sell their 4K content digitally for a reasonable price.

In the UK a DVD typically sells for around £10, a blu ray for £15, and a UHD for £25.
As far as I can see this is a scam.

Does the cost of pressing a UHD disc cost £15 more than a DVD?

It's the Golden Rule of business... the one with the gold makes the rules. Welcome to adulthood.

 

[NameUndecided]

But also, yes, a 4K disc that holds 50 to 100 GB of information costs more to manufacture and encode than a DVD that holds around 4.7 to 8.5 GB and has been around for about 17 years longer.

 

[Smokebomb]

We don’t have Vudu in the UK. The only way to access a decent catalogue of 4K HDR movie streams for new releases is through Apple. Amazon and Google’s 4K offerings are currently dire and the majority of download codes included with discs are for the dying Ultraviolet platform. We really could do with MoviesAnywhere making it over here this year.

 

[-Gonzo-]

You can buy a Disney blu-ray or 4K disc for pretty much the same price on release week as any other studio, $22-$30.
You can redeem the digital code from a 4K Disney disc for a 4K copy of the film in Vudu.
You can also buy a 4K digital copy directly in Vudu for a bit more than their 1080p version.
There are 4K devices that play Vudu movies in 4K. The Apple TV isn't one of them right now, but the option is there.

That’s an option in the US, unfortunately in the UK we don’t get digital codes with Disney.
There’s no Vudu either unless you go through the process of VPNs etc.

 

[NameUndecided]

Well, gosh, I was wrong on that and that was sort of myopic of me. So it would be even nicer in that case for Disney to join in with iTunes 4K, but it's still not their obligation to compensate for these outside failings.

One different way in that they could probably help is by bringing MoviesAnywhere (owned by Disney) outside of the US. But the reasons why they haven't yet are probably so numerous and complicated that I don't want to speculate.

Also (and god I hate how this probably seems like I'm just blindly defending Disney), Disney has only even been selling new releases in UHD for just over 6 months or so. Their first 4K disc release was either Guardians 2 or the new Pirates movie. They have a streaming service in the works. They run a digital movie service already through MA. It's not striking me as greedy for them to go against their own interests in order to appease the big Apple corporation that is worth ten times, in the Billions of dollars, more than even they are.

 

[kiranmk2]

Digital codes outside the US (and maybe Canada) is an absolute sham. Movies Anywhere is a fantastic solution, but I can't see it making it to the UK anytime soon. For now I am using VPN's US VUDU, iTunes and MA accounts, but live in hope that one day these will be able to sync to my UK iTunes account.

 

[LCC0256]

Interesting read guys but it's starting to sound as though you've all gone a bit bonkers.

Coming from a lifetime career in media, I can tell you that 4K BluRay outside of the USA is not going to be around for long - 2 years? Just look at the plastic, no thought for design/components machines launched this year by LG, SONY & Panasonic. It's incredibly obvious that they have ZERO interest in it. Look at the DV implementation on it. Look who was the FIRST of the companies to address SONY DV issue on their TVs - Apple with their ATV 4K - they seem to be putting more hard work into the Apple TV 4K than all of these 'old boys' manufacturers combined.

Yes it's a shame that Disney are repulsive but that's what businesses are. They are not your friend. They want your money and they know that the mainstream will buy into it, just like the rubbish that McDonalds sell as food and Samsung make in electronics. The mainstream want it & so you have it.

BUT from articles like this one below, even Hollywood is uninterested in 4K BluRay. And i'm not surprised, we were using damn discs in the 1980s and 90s. Times change and we as educated humans move on!

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1519123680

Paul is ONE of the reasons people still like physical media because they fear they don't "own" what they have bought by downloading and that sometime in the future the content could be made unaccessible? I have read this on this and other sites. I have also read some believe that physical media can be inherently of better quality. Yet the article you linked indicated otherwise. Would you help me understand these two points. Thank you Larry

 

[Smokebomb]

Physical media is better quality as the disc can hold more data to retain more of the original image and higher quality sound formats, but as to how much that matters to you? It’s in the eye of the beholder. Personally, it took me a while to get there, but with the 4K HDR streams it is at a level I’m happy with the quality in comparison to Blu Ray. Watched The Martian this afternoon and it looked amazing.

I’m not going to lose any sleep over Apple theoretically pulling the content I’ve paid for any time soon. Could they do it? Yes. Will they? Unlikely (IMO)

 

[LCC0256]

Physical media is better quality as the disc can hold more data to retain more of the original image and higher quality sound formats, but as to how much that matters to you? It’s in the eye of the beholder. Personally, it took me a while to get there, but with the 4K HDR streams it is at a level I’m happy with the quality in comparison to Blu Ray. Watched The Martian this afternoon and it looked amazing.

I’m not going to lose any sleep over Apple theoretically pulling the content I’ve paid for any time soon. Could they do it? Yes. Will they? Unlikely (IMO)

THANK YOU Smokebomb. Intuitively I believed this to be true in both cases.

 

[Falhófnir]

It's their content, they want to make money from it - I don't think that's extortionate pricing tbh.

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

Paul is ONE of the reasons people still like physical media because they fear they don't "own" what they have bought by downloading and that sometime in the future the content could be made unaccessible? I have read this on this and other sites. I have also read some believe that physical media can be inherently of better quality. Yet the article you linked indicated otherwise. Would you help me understand these two points. Thank you Larry

Interesting Larry. Is physical media of a better quality? Well, an Apple iTunes 4K Dolby Vision file has a far better picture quality than a BluRay 1080p disc.

Yes a BluRay disc may have Dolby HD audio. A 4K BluRay disc may contain Dolby Atmos BUT IT WON'T if as in all of my cases, the film is not made available on this format.

I believe that if you download a film, you'll own it as much as you would a disc.
What if people buy 4K BluRay discs and in 2 years time, manufacturers discontinue manufacturing these players. Then you'll own a load of stuff that is useless - just like owning VHS, Video 2000, Betamax, DAT, MiniDisc, HD DVD, Cassette tapes, LaserDiscs, SONY Video 8, Super VHS, Zip discs, Floppy discs, ElCassette.

I can still play back my MP4 files from 15 years ago - sadly, I can't play back my MiniDiscs from the same time and studio DAT tapes and my Hi8 camcorder tapes from 2004.

I guess that it depends on whether you like collecting physical things like that and even how you connect/relate to Apple / computers. I grew up as a teenager loving graphic design - I studied it at art school prior to university. I used a Mac for everything so naturally, I fell in love with buying music from iTunes in the very early days - heck, I could download a single track for 79p and in some cases, i'd spent half of my life trying to find that piece of music Then I moved to MacBooks and my digital world grew long with owning a iPhone and Apple TV. For me, I can do everything on my one MacBook and for me, that really simplifies my life/free time and causes zero worry, stress - everything simply works - reliably and well, with beautiful graphics, user interfaces etc.

At the end of the day, I feel that Apple delivers a polished product and service and if anything, I trust them a heck of a lot more than everything else that is out there. They don't rush things to the market. I also feel that the ATV 4K is one of their finest products to date and i'm truly happy with the attention that they are giving to it.

I see friends with Sky boxes etc and I feel that they are still in 1999. To me, all of that is tragic.

Yes, Apple could implement Dolby Atmos on the ATV 4K / iTunes store and make for a better audio experience but apart from that, there isn't that much it can really improve on.

But, each to their own. Personally, I feel that 4K BluRay will be dead in 2 years time. You can have the best product on the market but, if know one wants it...

 

[Papanate]

As far as I can see this is a scam.

First off Disney does not scam people - UHD is a premium product
and you choose to move to UHD - Disney did not force you.

Does the cost of pressing a UHD disc cost £15 more than a DVD?

The Cost of anything to do with entertainment is not related to the cost
of producing a copy. UHD is a luxury product at this point - you are paying
the costs of having that luxury.

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

First off Disney does not scam people - UHD is a premium product
and you choose to move to UHD - Disney did not force you.



The Cost of anything to do with entertainment is not related to the cost
of producing a copy. UHD is a luxury product at this point - you are paying
the costs of having that luxury.

I agree - vote with your wallet. Yes, it's a shame that the film isn't available in 4K Dolby Vision in iTunes right now - but hey, the ATV 4K does an amazing job of upscaling iTunes 1080p content. I hope the OP will give this a try and see if the result impresses or not.

I'd say that a iTunes 4K film and a Apple TV 4K system is a premium products and it's blessed with all of those qualities, as are all of Apple's products. I'd definitely say that 4K UHD BluRay is strictly a 'niche' product with a very very limited life. It's for the OPPO brigade - show me how a £150 cheap player can be as good as the ATV 4K with Dolby Vision. It's for the AV guy who watches a life worth of TV in a week and finds fault with the slightest spec of disturbance on a film, whilst completely loosing track of the actual film and its content.

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

Having a life in media, I know the industry, demographics and what sells. We can see when manufacturers aren't interested in a format simply by the utter rubbish that they half hearted release. Have you seen the new SONY 700 4K BluRay player. So cheaply made the it doesn't even have an inbuilt 240/110V power supply!

This confirms all!
https://www.oppodigital.com/farewell.aspx

 

[Citizen Cook]

First off Disney does not scam people - UHD is a premium product
and you choose to move to UHD - Disney did not force you.



The Cost of anything to do with entertainment is not related to the cost
of producing a copy. UHD is a luxury product at this point - you are paying
the costs of having that luxury.

Blu ray is still £5 more than a DVD. Is Blu ray still considered a luxury product? Isn’t all entertainment a luxury?
[doublepost=1522872280][/doublepost]

Paul is ONE of the reasons people still like physical media because they fear they don't "own" what they have bought by downloading and that sometime in the future the content could be made unaccessible? I have read this on this and other sites. I have also read some believe that physical media can be inherently of better quality. Yet the article you linked indicated otherwise. Would you help me understand these two points. Thank you Larry

I recently found out that a game that I bought on the app store (The Longest Journey Remastered) was pulled bu the content owners.

I have lost game and my money.

I contacted apple support and they told me that I should back up every digital purchase on disc or hard drive.
I personally find this totally unacceptable. If the content provider can pull the media at their own whim then I don’t really own the content, surely.

I purchased an apple TV because i simpy dont have the space in my house for anymore discs.
I also was attracted by the convenience. If I now how to start buying blank disc and hard drives what is the point?

Add to that the issue of not actually being able to rip 4K quality videos...

I’ve totally lost faith in the digital revolution. Someone reassure me please, because I’m two clicks away from buying a UHD copy of The Last Jedi and an Xbox One.

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

Blu ray is still £5 more than a DVD. Is Blu ray still considered a luxury product? Isn’t all entertainment a luxury?
[doublepost=1522872280][/doublepost]

I recently found out that a game that I bought on the app store (The Longest Journey Remastered) was pulled bu the content owners.

I have lost game and my money.

I contacted apple support and they told me that I should back up every digital purchase on disc or hard drive.
I personally find this totally unacceptable. If the content provider can pull the media at their own whim then I don’t really own the content, surely.

I purchased an apple TV because i simpy dont have the space in my house for anymore discs.
I also was attracted by the convenience. If I now how to start buying blank disc and hard drives what is the point?

Add to that the issue of not actually being able to rip 4K quality videos...

I’ve totally lost faith in the digital revolution. Someone reassure me please, because I’m two clicks away from buying a UHD copy of The Last Jedi and an Xbox One.

[doublepost=1522876267][/doublepost]It's INCREDIBLY unusual for a film to disappear from your library. It's happened to me once in 9 years and that was a film by a tiny independent house.
I've had foreign film that has been removed from the Apple Store BUT it's still playable on my Apple TV so Apple still keeps the majority on its servers etc. SURELY Apple with their excellent reputation when making deals will discuss this first and foremost with the film companies. Out of every tech company, Apple is the only one that I relatively trust compared to LG, Samsung, Google, Amazon.

My advice is simple - download and keep the utmost films that YOU LOVE - I'm my case on 7.

Also do you back your MacBook up to a portable hard drive via TimeMachine? I do this weekly and whenever I buy a iTunes film that I like, I download it once and simply do a Time Machine back up to my LaCie hard drive OR you could buy a USB stick and simply drag and drop the iTunes films onto that and then put it away in a drawer!

Please enjoy your experience and don't worry. Life is too special and incredibly short for this kind of worrying!

PS I'm not bothered at present about downloading a full fat 4K film. 1080p iTunes looks damn great with the amazing upscaled in the Apple TV. A 1080p back up is enough!

PS Like you, I love my house interior and did not ever want discs and their cases making my home look untidy etc. I hated the damn things! Dusty and the plastic would age so fast as it was so cheaply made! Don't get me started on those cheap disc trays and Windows 95 style user interfaces!

 

[Papanate]

Blu ray is still £5 more than a DVD. Is Blu ray still considered a luxury product? Isn’t all entertainment a luxury?

Yes - that is exactly what I am saying. All entertainment is not subject to
widget based pricing.

 

[Superrjamz54]

I wouldn’t mind paying. A little extra for a 4K Disney movie on iTunes.
Frankly, I was amazed when it was announced that all future 4K movies would be £13.99 on iTunes, the same price as a HD movie on the store.

But for Disney to exclude all 4K movies on iTunes really gets my back up. And like you said, I wouldn’t put it past them to expect consumers to double dip and buy the same HD movies they have already purchased on iTunes again to get the 4K versions.

Disney wants to setup their own digital streaming business. If they allowed Apple or any other source to stream 4K then nobody would use Disney’s service.

 

[Citizen Cook]

Disney wants to setup their own digital streaming business. If they allowed Apple or any other source to stream 4K then nobody would use Disney’s service.

Do you think it likely that Disney will pull their content from iTunes once that happens?
[doublepost=1522916382][/doublepost]

[doublepost=1522876267][/doublepost]

Also do you back your MacBook up to a portable hard drive via TimeMachine? I do this weekly and whenever I buy a iTunes film that I like, I download it once and simply do a Time Machine back up to my LaCie hard drive OR you could buy a USB stick and simply drag and drop the iTunes films onto that and then put it away in a drawer!!

No, I have a Windows 10 PC.
Which offers an awful iTunes experience. (I’m still waiting for the Windows app store version to launch) For some reason, to launch iTunes have have to hold alt&shift which clicking on the iTunes tumbnail. I can’t just double click...

Once the app launches I’m hoping it will make the experience more pleasurable.

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

Do you think it likely that Disney will pull their content from iTunes once that happens?
[doublepost=1522916382][/doublepost]

No, I have a Windows 10 PC.
Which offers an awful iTunes experience. (I’m still waiting for the Windows app store version to launch) For some reason, to launch iTunes have have to hold alt&shift which clicking on the iTunes tumbnail. I can’t just double click...

Once the app launches I’m hoping it will make the experience more pleasurable.

No, I don't think that Disney would pull their content. Surely, Apple the richest company in the world have enough say when it comes to leaving files on their servers for existing customers! We all know how hard Eddy Cue argues. He walks away if he doesn't get 100% what Apple wants. I'm convinced that they makes agreements about files or else Apple's image would be severely tarnished probably to the point of no recovery.

I believe people are worrying too much. With everything in life, live in the moment as we have no control what happens next year or next decade in tech! Just enjoy to the max what you have today!

 

[Citizen Cook]

No, I don't think that Disney would pull their content. Surely, Apple the richest company in the world have enough say when it comes to leaving files on their servers for existing customers! We all know how hard Eddy Cue argues. He walks away if he doesn't get 100% what Apple wants. I'm convinced that they makes agreements about files or else Apple's image would be severely tarnished probably to the point of no recovery.

I believe people are worrying too much. With everything in life, live in the moment as we have no control what happens next year or next decade in tech! Just enjoy to the max what you have today!

My own recent experience with apple has been very worrying.

As i said above, I recently lost a game because the publisher pulled it. Why didn’t apple protect me then?
If apple can’t stop and indie film from being pulled as paul said, or my little game disappearing suddenly, why I should I exepct them to protect me from Disney’s greed?

 

[Superrjamz54]

No, I don't think that Disney would pull their content. Surely, Apple the richest company in the world have enough say when it comes to leaving files on their servers for existing customers! We all know how hard Eddy Cue argues. He walks away if he doesn't get 100% what Apple wants. I'm convinced that they makes agreements about files or else Apple's image would be severely tarnished probably to the point of no recovery.

I believe people are worrying too much. With everything in life, live in the moment as we have no control what happens next year or next decade in tech! Just enjoy to the max what you have today!

It’s very possible that Disney would no longer sell movies on iTunes after
[doublepost=1522940423][/doublepost]

My own recent experience with apple has been very worrying.

As i said above, I recently lost a game because the publisher pulled it. Why didn’t apple protect me then?
If apple can’t stop and indie film from being pulled as paul said, or my little game disappearing suddenly, why I should I exepct them to protect me from Disney’s greed?

Apple is not responsible for game developers pulling games or movie company pulling movies. That is 100% the fault of the company you foolishly purchased something from. Disney would face a huge backlash if they pulled all of their stuff off of other digital platforms even after somebody bought it. Remember all you have is a license to use it not an actual item. There’s a huge difference.

 

[ftaok]

Disney is such a conumdrum, IMO.

They make/produce the movies that I want to buy the most (Marvel, Star Wars, Pixar) and they've pioneered the Movies Anywhere system that is very consumer friendly.

Then they go and contribute to the killing of 3D in the US. They've made getting 3D blurays such a cluster-F that it's not even funny. I've taken to importing my 3D Marvel and SW movies from Amazon UK. But then I don't get the digital copy. Plus, Disney doesn't participate in Vudu's Disc-2-Digital program, so I can't get the Digital copy for $2. I could always buy someones Digital Copy, but the Marvel/Pixar/SW DC's are going for $10 or so. Not worth it.

I'd gladly pay $35 for these 3D combo packages. Hell, I got the Justice League 3D combo pack for that price just because I got all the other DC Universe movies.

/end disney rant

 

[Superrjamz54]

Disney is such a conumdrum, IMO.

They make/produce the movies that I want to buy the most (Marvel, Star Wars, Pixar) and they've pioneered the Movies Anywhere system that is very consumer friendly.

Then they go and contribute to the killing of 3D in the US. They've made getting 3D blurays such a cluster-F that it's not even funny. I've taken to importing my 3D Marvel and SW movies from Amazon UK. But then I don't get the digital copy. Plus, Disney doesn't participate in Vudu's Disc-2-Digital program, so I can't get the Digital copy for $2. I could always buy someones Digital Copy, but the Marvel/Pixar/SW DC's are going for $10 or so. Not worth it.

I'd gladly pay $35 for these 3D combo packages. Hell, I got the Justice League 3D combo pack for that price just because I got all the other DC Universe movies.

/end disney rant

Must suck to live in the UK. Every physical copy of a movie in the US. comes with a digital copy including Disney movies. 3D tech never caught on in the US for home viewing and the theatres usually throw it on a smaller screen theater. Rather have a 4K version then a 3D one.