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If the average person buys six cables a year the number of iPhones and iPads sold tells you nothing about the reliability of the cable.
Thats assuming the average person buys six cables per year; multiple cables is likely, but multiple being replaced each year is highly unlikely. You are correct that you need to factor in extra cables improving statistical reliability, but one cable per iPhone gives you a baseline of total number of cables in use.

Another consideration is what constitutes premature failure; how many years of regular use after purchase is acceptable failure.
 
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Thats assuming the average person buys six cables per year; multiple cables is likely, but multiple being replaced each year is highly unlikely. You are correct that you need to factor in extra cables improving statistical reliability, but one cable per iPhone gives you a baseline of total number of cables in use.
My point was that number of phones sold is irrelevant. What matters is the number of cables sold. How do you figure multiple replaced per year is unlikely? Google it and you will see it's a non-zero issue. Look at how many aftermarket cables are sold at major retailers and the demand for these cables must be high enough to support the industry. Even if the cables were simple extras the market would not be able to support dozens of vendors selling multiple multipacks.

Combined with the poor ratings, repeated news articles, and customer complaints I can't reasonably conclude that the lighting cable is reliable.
 
I still think Apple will finally adopt USB Type C with Thunderbolt 4/USB 4 support on the iPhone 14. Not only to satisfy EU regulations, but also because of the need to transfer ProRAW image and ProRes video files quickly out of the phone.
 
My point was that number of phones sold is irrelevant. What matters is the number of cables sold. How do you figure multiple replaced per year is unlikely? Google it and you will see it's a non-zero issue. Look at how many aftermarket cables are sold at major retailers and the demand for these cables must be high enough to support the industry. Even if the cables were simple extras the market would not be able to support dozens of vendors selling multiple multipacks.

Combined with the poor ratings, repeated news articles, and customer complaints I can't reasonably conclude that the lighting cable is reliable.
People primarily buy extra cables for convenience, why bring your one cable with you if you can keep one in each room you charge, one in your car, one at work, an extra in your bag, etc., not due to the reliability of OEM cables.
 
People primarily buy extra cables for convenience, why bring your one cable with you if you can keep one in each room you charge, one in your car, one at work, an extra in your bag, etc., not due to the reliability of OEM cables.
I would agree with you when the OEM cable is reliable. When the reliability of OEM cables is low the primary reason people buy new cables is that they no longer have one that works. Sometimes people buy additional cables while the old one still works, not so they can have one for another room but because they know the one they have won't last long. Buying two cables because you worry they will stop working doesn't mean you got them for extra rooms, it means you go through more cables.
 
My F150 has wireless CarPlay and it works just fine. Pretty sure many other cars are following suit. Do I think Apple would care about making your phone not work if you car doesn't support wireless CarPlay? Not really. Especially not if they release their own car lol
That’s great for your anecdotal personal experience. Unfortunately though you seem to have no concept of the entire world of wired infrastructure that exists.
 
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Combined with the poor ratings, repeated news articles, and customer complaints I can't reasonably conclude that the lighting cable is reliable.
Based on the evidence you provided I can't reasonably conclude the lightning cable is not reliable. I'm not saying cables don't break under misuse or abuse. Purposefully bending at the connector, pulling the cable out repeatedly by the cord, stepping or having a chair wheel or leg run over the cable etc...is abuse/misuse.
 
Based on the evidence you provided I can't reasonably conclude the lightning cable is not reliable. I'm not saying cables don't break under misuse or abuse. Purposefully bending at the connector, pulling the cable out repeatedly by the cord, stepping or having a chair wheel or leg run over the cable etc...is abuse/misuse.
1. You can't conclude they are reliable and have no evidence supporting that claim meanwhile there is significant evidence that they are unreliable.
2. Normal usage isn't abuse. Cables should be designed with the expectation they will be bent and pulled because that's how people use them. You can't claim something is durable and exclude failures because the manufacture doesn't want people using something in a particular way. Bending a cable so you can hold the device isn't abuse. Coiling a cable isn't abuse. Charing your phone multiple times per day is not abuse.
3. In the case of lightning the cable is made thinner by Apple (fact) and the connector has chips that reduce the plug wire interface (fact) both of which contribute to a cable with a higher rate of failure compared to cables that don't have these design choices (confirmed with evidence already presented).
4. Apple made the choice to move the point of failure from the device to the cable, and that was probably a good call for protecting the device but it led to higher failure rates with cables themselves. If official lighting cables only cost $2 to $5 each it wouldn't be such a big deal, but they cost $20 to $30 each. Apple knows customers will have to replace multiple cables over the lifespan of the device and they have a certification program to ensure they profit from that need.
 
Even these wireless charging pucks have cables attached, haven‘t they?
I was half joking but the average consumer probably goes through many charging cables a year due to daily use and abuse, not to mention the damage to the connector port on their mobile devices. The same cannot be said about "wireless charging cables".
 
1. You can't conclude they are reliable and have no evidence supporting that claim meanwhile there is significant evidence that they are unreliable.
I can conclude they are reliable. By the evidence you can't make the claim they are unreliable.
2. Normal usage isn't abuse. Cables should be designed with the expectation they will be bent and pulled because that's how people use them. You can't claim something is durable and exclude failures because the manufacture doesn't want people using something in a particular way. Bending a cable so you can hold the device isn't abuse. Coiling a cable isn't abuse. Charing your phone multiple times per day is not abuse.
No, that is not normal use. Pulling cables and wires by the cord rather than the connector is not normal use. Bending cables and wires beyond their flexibility is abuse.
3. In the case of lightning the cable is made thinner by Apple (fact) and the connector has chips that reduce the plug wire interface (fact) both of which contribute to a cable with a higher rate of failure compared to cables that don't have these design choices (confirmed with evidence already presented).
What "evidence?" Nothing indicates the Apple lightning cable is unreliable. I agree if you misuse or abuse the cable it will break, like every other cable.
4. Apple made the choice to move the point of failure from the device to the cable, and that was probably a good call for protecting the device but it led to higher failure rates with cables themselves.
Please cite that rate from an official source.
If official lighting cables only cost $2 to $5 each it wouldn't be such a big deal, but they cost $20 to $30 each. Apple knows customers will have to replace multiple cables over the lifespan of the device and they have a certification program to ensure they profit from that need.
Baloney. Many people never have to replace a lightning cable due to normal wear and tear. I agree that people have to replace cables due to abuse and lost cables, but not due to normal wear and tear within a reasonable life span.
 
I can conclude they are reliable. By the evidence you can't make the claim they are unreliable.

No, that is not normal use. Pulling cables and wires by the cord rather than the connector is not normal use. Bending cables and wires beyond their flexibility is abuse.

What "evidence?" Nothing indicates the Apple lightning cable is unreliable. I agree if you misuse or abuse the cable it will break, like every other cable.

Please cite that rate from an official source.

Baloney. Many people never have to replace a lightning cable due to normal wear and tear. I agree that people have to replace cables due to abuse and lost cables, but not due to normal wear and tear within a reasonable life span.
What evidence do you have they are reliable? None.

Normal use is based on how it's normally used, not some vendor-specific instructions.

I already provided Apple as a source and that wasn't good enough so :rolleyes:

Based on made-up numbers and absurd definitions of normal.
 
I would agree with you when the OEM cable is reliable. When the reliability of OEM cables is low the primary reason people buy new cables is that they no longer have one that works. Sometimes people buy additional cables while the old one still works, not so they can have one for another room but because they know the one they have won't last long. Buying two cables because you worry they will stop working doesn't mean you got them for extra rooms, it means you go through more cables.

Why would you carry a cable and charger around the house when you can just have one in each room? A larger piece of the puzzle is how old the cable is when it fails; failing within one year is unacceptable, but failing after several years is kind of expected. I agree that the OEM cables can fail, but I disagree that they are failing at double-digit rates.
 
Why would you carry a cable and charger around the house when you can just have one in each room? A larger piece of the puzzle is how old the cable is when it fails; failing within one year is unacceptable, but failing after several years is kind of expected. I agree that the OEM cables can fail, but I disagree that they are failing at double-digit rates.
What sort of bag do you use that lets you travel with a charger without folding it?
 
Many people never have to replace a lightning cable due to normal wear and tear. I agree that people have to replace cables due to abuse and lost cables, but not due to normal wear and tear within a reasonable life span.
Many people replace their cable after two years when they upgrade phones.
 
What evidence do you have they are reliable? None.

Normal use is based on how it's normally used, not some vendor-specific instructions.

I already provided Apple as a source and that wasn't good enough so :rolleyes:

Based on made-up numbers and absurd definitions of normal.
This was a fun, intellectual exercise. Worlds apart on definitional items, such as:
- what is proof vs anecdotal or claimed evidence
- what is normal use
- what is the life expectancy of cables

Not surprising your conclusion since you believe the anecdotal evidence on the internet as irrefutable proof. Definition of "normal use" had me o_O. But different strokes for different folks.
 
This was a fun, intellectual exercise. Worlds apart on definitional items, such as:
- what is proof vs anecdotal or claimed evidence
- what is normal use
- what is the life expectancy of cables

Not surprising your conclusion since you believe the anecdotal evidence on the internet as irrefutable proof. Definition of "normal use" had me o_O. But different strokes for different folks.
It's not anecdotal. My evidence included more than 2300 reports to apple that their cables fail early. It included references to investigative journalism recognizing and exploring the cause of early lighting cable failures.

No evidence proves something, it supports it. It's doesn't have to be a double-blind study to be valid evidence.

Your definition of normal use has been used for years to deny people's right to repair. It's the same reason why Verizon removed water damage indicators from their devices. It wasn't valid then and it's not valid here either. Go ahead and dislike this if you admit you were wrong and just wanted to argue.
 
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Not to get distracted here from the original point of this thread, but who the $*(#@ buys multiple cables a year because they don't last? I mean, I get it if you roughhouse with a cable (which includes it being bitten, clawed, torn up by a child, etc.) but cables shouldn't simply just *fail*.

And if that's the case, why the $#@) would you keep buying them? Why would you keep buying a product which uses them? Honestly, that makes no sense.

I've owned USB cables since the 1.1 spec days. I have several USB-C cables now. Not *one* of them has ever just "up and died" on me. I've only ever bought additional ones for additional use situations, or longer ones, etc.
 
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It's not anecdotal. My evidence included more than 2300 reports to apple that their cables fail early. It included references to investigative journalism recognizing and exploring the cause of early lighting cable failures.

Apple sells on average 200 million phones each year so 2300 reports to Apple is statistically insignificant, and were those failures anything other than rare exceptions to the rule, the number of reports would be 100 to 1000 times that. So unless you can find tens of millions of people reporting cable failures, your evidence doesn't support your assertion.
 
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Apple sells on average 200 million phones each year so 2300 reports to Apple is statistically insignificant, and were those failures anything other than rare exceptions to the rule, the number of reports would be 100 to 1000 times that. So unless you can find tens of millions of people reporting cable failures, your evidence doesn't support your assertion.
Apple has been selling lightning since the iphone 5 days in 2012. That's 9 years of cables and rounding down to 100 millions phones/year that's shy of 1b lightning cables. So 2300/1b = .00023%. Op seemingly doesn't get that and is seemingly operating on the premise that any failure more than one constitutes a product defect.
 
Apple sells on average 200 million phones each year so 2300 reports to Apple is statistically insignificant, and were those failures anything other than rare exceptions to the rule, the number of reports would be 100 to 1000 times that. So unless you can find tens of millions of people reporting cable failures, your evidence doesn't support your assertion.
That’s not how any of this works. Most people don’t report anything. The reports demonstrate a failure rate exist. So no, the 2300 is sufficient.
 
That’s not how any of this works. Most people don’t report anything. The reports demonstrate a failure rate exist. So no, the 2300 is sufficient.
Please provide some citations and definitive proof on how any of this works. Please provide proof that most people don't report anything. The fact that products fail is not a new revelation to many. The fact you have not produced any evidence that shows an endemic failure of lightning cables above an estimated .00023% and tells the forum how things don't work rather than providing citations about how things do work shows this is another vacuous argument.
 
I hate lightning because the ports get gunked up and non function in not too long a time, I hate USBc because the connectors get loose and flakey.

That's true but they're pretty easy to clean out. You know that Apple ships a special "lightning port de-gunker" tool with every iPhone, right? I keep the tool on my keychain, but I find I only have to clean mine out perhaps once every 6-12 months.
 
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Please provide some citations and definitive proof on how any of this works. Please provide proof that most people don't report anything. The fact that products fail is not a new revelation to many. The fact you have not produced any evidence that shows an endemic failure of lightning cables above an estimated .00023% and tells the forum how things don't work rather than providing citations about how things do work shows this is another vacuous argument.
:rolleyes: Since you are clearly unfamiliar with the words you are using, I am done with you.
 
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