The Love & The Hate

[CaptRB]

It's rather fascinating to see the reaction to new products like the tMBP.

Most of the negative posts are from folks who don't own one. They also seem the crave negative reports and comments on these new machines. A sticking key or glitch somewhere suddenly takes on Orwellian proportions that are somehow indicative of Apple preparing to ignore and eventually abandon Mac users.

Most of us can easily see that this is just another new release. Apple went to bat and brought a bunch of new features and changes. Most pros will be happy with these new machines, but hobbyists who crave the highest spec are frustrated that Apple didn't open this lineup with faster processors and legacy ports.

Again, you have to have a sense of history here. Apple continues to make top-level notebooks and they will push these machines further next year and the year after. They have zero interest in selling the "last notebook you'll need" as folks who hold onto these things for 5 years are not what they're interested in. The "pro" market upgrades fast and regular, so next year Apple will refine the tMBP further and the year after that will likely see a highly mature product.

That's how it's done and how it works and always has been, so I have no idea what all the crying is about from the minority here. If this machine can't meet your workload, buy something else or wait until late 2017. It's truly simple.

Of course the response has been largely positive where it counts. We know USB-C will be THE port and it already is the most versatile thing to have. We also know that a snappy precise keyboard, better speakers and screen...all took a ton of expensive engineering to employ. Add the touchbar, insanely good build and this is likely the best machine available.
But that doesn't make it perfect for everyone.

I tried the Surface Pro. Some folks love it. But it wasn't for me. I dumped it and stayed with Mac. That's how it works, folks.


Cheers,


R

 

[idunn]

Most of the negative posts are from folks who don't own one. They also seem the crave negative reports and comments on these new machines. A sticking key or glitch somewhere suddenly takes on Orwellian proportions that are somehow indicative of Apple preparing to ignore and eventually abandon Mac users.

With respect, the 2016 MacBook Pro is not designed or adequate for high-end professional use. For some professional applications it will prove suitable (despite many questionable limitations), but certainly not others, with those customers simply abandoned.

Moreover anyone with a love of all Macintosh should be more than concerned, as the advent of the 2016 MBP marked a public sea change from Apple. It is an open secret now that the Macintosh is viewed by Apple as a legacy product, with what remnants of it they decide to retain incorporated into the iOS sphere. The 2016 MBP is an iOS hybrid, the hardware a blend between that existing and the iWatch; the software no less so, with Sierra a mixture of that formally OSX and iOS. As far as this goes it is only the beginning. Apple has disbanded the OSX software team, melding them into the iOS software effort, which takes precedence.

As others, I can speak to the 2016 MBP, even though purposefully not having bought one. With reason. Chances are more than a few others in this same boat know quite a bit more about the 2016 MBP than the actual owners at this point, as quite concerned about Apple's present direction and having studied it closely.

This is nothing to be sanguine about.

 

[raqball]

Most of the negative posts are from folks who don't own one. They also seem the crave negative reports and comments on these new machines. A sticking key or glitch somewhere suddenly takes on Orwellian proportions that are somehow indicative of Apple preparing to ignore and eventually abandon Mac users.

Do you have proof that most of the negative comments are from non owners?

If not then this is just another bait thread that will get shut down..

 

[mmomega]

I'm fortunate enough to have both a desktop and laptop so I don't need the laptops be be uber powerful, I need them to be uber portable.
So for me, and I've mentioned it before, these laptops are probably one of if not the best laptop I could get for me.
I like the tech, I don't mind or care much if I need a dongle, I like how it looks.

I would so buy something else in a second if I had any doubts the MacBook wasn't for me. I just don't understand buying something and keeping it to complain about it. That's a complete waste of time, finances and the frustration of having to deal with something you don't like which then leads to going onto a website and typing a rant about how much you don't like it. How much time is this thing eating up of your time when you think about it?

I'm also aware there are folks that live and work off of a laptop but again. Don't buy a machine wanting it to be what it isn't. Go find something else.

 

[Phil A.]

It's called confirmation bias and applies equally to people who love something and those who hate it: If you love something you will look for and pay more heed to things that share that view, and the same if you hate it

It does seem that Apple are polarising views more than ever (at least on here), and remember the myriad of arguments when the rMB was first released. Most of those initial arguments have died down now in favour of arguments about the MBPro and so the cycle continues.

I expect much the same to continue next year when the iMacs are released and if Apple do release a new Mac Pro I think the arguments will probably take things to a whole new level

 

[raqball]

I'm fortunate enough to have both a desktop and laptop so I don't need the laptops be be uber powerful, I need them to be uber portable.
So for me, and I've mentioned it before, these laptops are probably one of if not the best laptop I could get for me.
I like the tech, I don't mind or care much if I need a dongle, I like how it looks.

I would so buy something else in a second if I had any doubts the MacBook wasn't for me. I just don't understand buying something and keeping it to complain about it. That's a complete waste of time, finances and the frustration of having to deal with something you don't like which then leads to going onto a website and typing a rant about how much you don't like it. How much time is this thing eating up of your time when you think about it?

I'm also aware there are folks that live and work off of a laptop but again. Don't buy a machine wanting it to be what it isn't. Go find something else.

It's not always that easy for some... Some have a lot of money sunk into Mac apps and programs and some have other reasons like continuity and handoff.. I am sure there are more reasons to stick with Mac even if unhappy with the current release but those are a few that popped into my head.

I like Apple products and I like Mac. Does that mean I walk around with blinders on? Sorry, but no.... The new machines are fine but some do have very valid complaints and discarding them as haters is flat out wrong.. You might be surprised to find that many of the complainers and so called haters are actually long time Apple and Mac fans...

 

[CaptRB]

Do you have proof that most of the negative comments are from non owners?

If not then this is just another bait thread that will get shut down..

It won't get shut down if people are cordial.

I do have proof, though you'll have to look for yourself. Simply look at the many threads, as I have, and you'll see the loudest and most frequent complaints come from folks who do not own the machine.

Look for yourself.


R.

 

[MH01]

Do you have proof that most of the negative comments are from non owners?

If not then this is just another bait thread that will get shut down..

Every owner must therefore only post positive comments, common sense eh.... I'm an owner who has posted both negative and positive, but to be honest my positive comments gets ignored and I just get labled as a hater. When you enter MR leave objectivity at the door and be prepared to be labled with us or against us you know how it rolls.

my favourite part as you replied to is making up stats.....it's all baseless.

The new Mac book pro is a product that has divided the MR community, so without making up stats, it's not a perfect profuct like some make it out to be .

 

[CaptRB]

With respect, the 2016 MacBook Pro is not designed or adequate for high-end professional use. For some professional applications it will prove suitable (despite many questionable limitations), but certainly not others, with those customers simply abandoned.

Moreover anyone with a love of all Macintosh should be more than concerned, as the advent of the 2016 MBP marked a public sea change from Apple. It is an open secret now that the Macintosh is viewed by Apple as a legacy product, with what remnants of it they decide to retain incorporated into the iOS sphere. The 2016 MBP is an iOS hybrid, the hardware a blend between that existing and the iWatch; the software no less so, with Sierra a mixture of that formally OSX and iOS. As far as this goes it is only the beginning. Apple has disbanded the OSX software team, melding them into the iOS software effort, which takes precedence.

As others, I can speak to the 2016 MBP, even though purposefully not having bought one. With reason. Chances are more than a few others in this same boat know quite a bit more about the 2016 MBP than the actual owners at this point, as quite concerned about Apple's present direction and having studied it closely.

This is nothing to be sanguine about.

And with all due respect, what fields of professional usage do these machines fall short in? I'm a fairly high end photographer and they (13" tMBP) certainly make the grade. The 15" model blasts through Final Cut jobs and handles RED system with ease. My wife is a wound care specialist and she's using the new 13" running spreadsheets and pharmaceutical software.

I'm not saying that there isn't some professional jobs it can't handle, but what is it that YOU do where it falls short?

And what are you doing instead?



R

 

[raqball]

It won't get shut down if people are cordial.

I do have proof, though you'll have to look for yourself. Simply look at the many threads, as I have, and you'll see the loudest and most frequent complaints come from folks who do not own the machine.

Look for yourself.


R.

I've read most of your threads before they are shut down... Anyways, people can sometimes decide the machine is not for them even before they buy it. Are they haters? Nope.... Maybe, just maybe they are hardcore Mac fans who are disappointed with the new machines and have a right to voice their displeasure..

Also there are plenty of us who have the machines BUT still have complaints. Am I a hater? Maybe in your mind because I don't constantly heap praise on it but I do have one so your theory is out the window..

If you only want positive comments then a online forum might not be the best place to be...

 

[MH01]

It won't get shut down if people are cordial.

I do have proof, though you'll have to look for yourself. Simply look at the many threads, as I have, and you'll see the loudest and most frequent complaints come from folks who do not own the machine.

Look for yourself.


R.

An opinion on an Apple product, on an Apple fan site , does not require ownership to be valid.

Your analysis would only be valid if you could prove that the negative posters are non apple fans and therefore trolls. If an apple fan is posting negative feed back on the MacBook Pro and not buying it, that is valid criticism.

 

[CaptRB]

I've read most of your threads before they are shut down... Anyways, people can sometimes decide the machine is not for them even before they buy it. Are they haters? Nope.... Maybe, just maybe they are hardcore Mac fans who are disappointed with the new machines and have a right to voice their displeasure..

If you only want positive comments then a online forum might not be the best place to be...

You can make any negative statement you want, of course. But I don't think it's unreasonable to back it up. If you say you don't like the keyboard after two weeks of working with it, then that's that. You gave it a try and it doesn't work for you. I respect that.

But if someone makes vague statements that are unsupported by experience, I'll call that into question.

People saying that the tMBP is not "professional" is a perfect example. It's more capable than the previous model and that was used professionally. So is the MacBook Air. The only thing that determines whether something is professional or not is the user.

Annoyed by USB-C? Okay. But we all know it's not really a problem. Remember when Apple pulled CD drives from these machines? So-called professionals screamed. But Apple was right and I rarely use a drive these days (so why have the weight with me 24/7?).


R
[doublepost=1482359588][/doublepost]

An opinion on an Apple product, on an Apple fan site , does not require ownership to be valid.

Your analysis would only be valid if you could prove that the negative posters are non apple fans and therefore trolls. If an apple fan is posting negative feed back on the MacBook Pro and not buying it, that is valid criticism.

Agreed, but when I buy a car I trust MYSELF and others who have driven it.

That's it. The rest is mostly just noise.

Validity and credibility take a steep nosedive in all other cases. As we like to say, "post a picture or it didn't happen."



R

 

[raqball]

My complaints with the new machines are minor..

1. TB was a gimmick for my needs and glitched out often. It was returned for a nTB
2. TB version is way, way, way overpriced
3. Dongles... I don't mind USB C but Apple could have phased it in by leaving one USB A and the SD card slot for now
4. Apple and it's obsession with thin came at the expense of battery life

Those are my gripes. I dig the new KB and I dig the new large trackpad. The screen rocks and the SSD is blazing fast.. It's a fine computer but to be honest, for the price, I'd expect more..

Everything with the Apple logo and name come with a higher than average price (the Apple tax) and I am fine with that for the most part. Heck I have an Apple Watch and AirPods that I also think are slightly overpriced.

Just because people have complaints does not make them a hater or a troll... Some are long time Apple fans. Heck I am probably one of the few with a @mac.com email address..

 

[jerryk]

Can someone please kill this thread!

 

[MH01]

You can make any negative statement you want, of course. But I don't think it's unreasonable to back it up. If you say you don't like the keyboard after two weeks of working with it, then that's that. You gave it a try and it doesn't work for you. I respect that.

But if someone makes vague statements that are unsupported by experience, I'll call that into question.

People saying that the tMBP is not "professional" is a perfect example. It's more capable than the previous model and that was used professionally. So is the MacBook Air. The only thing that determines whether something is professional or not is the user.

Annoyed by USB-C? Okay. But we all know it's not really a problem. Remember when Apple pulled CD drives from these machines? So-called professionals screamed. But Apple was right and I rarely use a drive these days (so why have the weight with me 24/7?).


R
[doublepost=1482359588][/doublepost]




Agreed, but when I buy a car I trust MYSELF and others who have driven it.

That's it. The rest is mostly just noise.

Validity and credibility take a steep nosedive in all other cases. As we like to say, "post a picture or it didn't happen."



R

i used to work for Top Gear , and don't agree the drivers are the best source of info about a product....if any thing they are the most biased.

By definition a huge fan of a badge lacks credibility , due to thier biased opinion and lack of objectivity.

I'll leave you with this, you can ask car fans how reliable thier cars are, and you will get uninformed opinions, go ask the local tow truck driver and he will give you an honest opinion based on experience from day to day work

 

[jackoatmon]

With respect, the 2016 MacBook Pro is not designed or adequate for high-end professional use.

There was another thread where people were trying to come up with examples of "professional" work that the machines couldn't excel at, and the only examples anyone could imagine were:

- devs testing heavy sites simultaneously on 3+ virtual operating systems each with 3+ browsers going at once
- hollywood-level 3d post-production studio work
- graphics development on witcher-equivalent 3d games

So, basically, about 1000 people on planet earth. People who definitely work on desktop systems.

Every time someone like you comes along and makes this wild and ridiculous claim, they then proceed to have zero examples of a task the machines cannot complete, and it generally turns out they were actually just interested in framerates on first person shooters.

 

[wegster]

I'm fortunate enough to have both a desktop and laptop so I don't need the laptops be be uber powerful, I need them to be uber portable.
So for me, and I've mentioned it before, these laptops are probably one of if not the best laptop I could get for me.
I like the tech, I don't mind or care much if I need a dongle, I like how it looks.

I would so buy something else in a second if I had any doubts the MacBook wasn't for me. I just don't understand buying something and keeping it to complain about it. That's a complete waste of time, finances and the frustration of having to deal with something you don't like which then leads to going onto a website and typing a rant about how much you don't like it. How much time is this thing eating up of your time when you think about it?

I'm also aware there are folks that live and work off of a laptop but again. Don't buy a machine wanting it to be what it isn't. Go find something else.

How lovely it must be to sit on a high horse and assume some don't have thousands of dollars in software investments that equal or exceed the cost of a laptop. 'Don't buy it' isn't really an option for some, at least not without even more disruption.

 

[CaptRB]

i used to work for Top Gear , and don't agree the drivers are the best source of info about a product....if any thing they are the most biased.

By definition a huge fan of a badge lacks credibility , due to thier biased opinion and lack of objectivity.

I'll leave you with this, you can ask car fans how reliable thier cars are, and you will get uninformed opinions, go ask the local tow truck driver and he will give you an honest opinion based on experience from day to day work

It depends on where you look. I certainly don't expect a driving show or magazine to give me much info, but I aggregate the comments of owners of a specific car and I've yet to be surprised.

The last two cars (BMW M5 and SRT Charger Hellcat) were researched, in part, with forums. I ignore (mostly) the non-owners simply because they can't tell me much that is useful. The owners can and do.

Now a LOT more people will buy these laptops vs. pricey super-powered sedans, but the forums do have some things in common.


R
[doublepost=1482362140][/doublepost]

How lovely it must be to sit on a high horse and assume some don't have thousands of dollars in software investments that equal or exceed the cost of a laptop. 'Don't buy it' isn't really an option for some, at least not without even more disruption.

Please explain. These are very capable machines. The 2015 models are also excellent as were the 2013 models. There are tons of ways to go and resale value is very high. It's not like you don't have good alternatives.


R.

 

[glindon]

Imagine if the MacBook Pro came out a couple years ago. It would be the best thing since sliced bread™. I think it's probably the best laptop I've ever owned. Every time I pick it up I am amazed by how light and thin it is. 5 years ago I was using a 2011 13" MacBook Pro that weighed more than the 15" Im using today with a footprint that's only slightly larger. It's quieter and runs cooler too. Speakers are awesome (for a laptop). My only complaint is that yes it did cost quite a bit of money. Next year, or the year after that the cost will come down like it did for the first retina MacBook.

 

[CaptRB]

There was another thread where people were trying to come up with examples of "professional" work that the machines couldn't excel at, and the only examples anyone could imagine were:

- devs testing heavy sites simultaneously on 3+ virtual operating systems each with 3+ browsers going at once
- hollywood-level 3d post-production studio work
- graphics development on witcher-equivalent 3d games

So, basically, about 1000 people on planet earth. People who definitely work on desktop systems.

Every time someone like you comes along and makes this wild and ridiculous claim, they then proceed to have zero examples of a task the machines cannot complete, and it generally turns out they were actually just interested in framerates on first person shooters.

Which is why I always ask, "What work do you do where the MBP lets you down in your workflow?"

I rarely get an answer. The people I know who have needs that exceed the capabilities of these machines aren't expecting a 2000 dollar laptop to do that kind of work.

Here I sit, typing away on my new tMBP. The screen is so much nicer (brighter) and the mushy keyboard is gone. That alone, the user interface, is so much of an upgrade. Now comes the easy part: It's quick, well made and adaptable to every bit of kit that I own (or likely anyone owns). It can edit my pro photo work, my amateur 4K video...and it works BETTER. It also sounds better and I just learned that a certain screenwriting software company will be making good use of the Touch Bar.

Anyway...Happy holidays, folks!


R.

 

[MH01]

It depends on where you look. I certainly don't expect a driving show or magazine to give me much info, but I aggregate the comments of owners of a specific car and I've yet to be surprised.

The last two cars (BMW M5 and SRT Charger Hellcat) were researched, in part, with forums. I ignore (mostly) the non-owners simply because they can't tell me much that is useful. The owners can and do.

Now a LOT more people will buy these laptops vs. pricey super-powered sedans, but the forums do have some things in common.


R
[doublepost=1482362140][/doublepost]



Please explain. These are very capable machines. The 2015 models are also excellent as were the 2013 models. There are tons of ways to go and resale value is very high. It's not like you don't have good alternatives.


R.

Does a person buy a Ferrari cause it has good mileage, is reliable, comfortable and easily maintained , and knows how to drive it to its potential or do they buy it as a status symbol? Very very very small percentage of Ferrari drivers can use thier cars close to the potential . Yes forums sometimes have too much in common. And the most vocal don't tend to be the ones that know how to drive , it's the ones that want to impress ....anyway have a good evening.

 

[CaptRB]

Does a person buy a Ferrari cause it has good mileage, is reliable, comfortable and easily maintained , and knows how to drive it to its potential or do they buy it as a status symbol? Very very very small percentage of Ferrari drivers can use thier cars close to the potential . Yes forums sometimes have too much in common. And the most vocal don't tend to be the ones that know how to drive , it's the ones that want to impress ....anyway have a good evening.

Status symbols for sure!

And I think we can be honest and say it's fun to own nice things, yes? My car is fun to drive, but I'd be a liar if I claimed that folks giving it a thumbs-up isn't part of the experience.

If only they knew I had a sexy tMBP in the back seat...




R

 

[niploteksi]

It won't get shut down if people are cordial.

I do have proof, though you'll have to look for yourself. Simply look at the many threads, as I have, and you'll see the loudest and most frequent complaints come from folks who do not own the machine.

Look for yourself.


R.

The people with the most complains will probably not buy it, that's not so strange...

Also I think this throwing around the term "pro user" just confuses the whole discussion about Apples lineup. A hobbyist can have higher demands for ram and cpu than a pro romance writer.

 

[CaptRB]

The people with the most complains will probably not buy it, that's not so strange...

Also I think this throwing around the term "pro user" just confuses the whole discussion about Apples lineup. A hobbyist can have higher demands for ram and cpu than a pro romance writer.

One thing I've learned is that a surprisingly large number of "critics" will end up buying it. Or they'll wait for the next year model and buy that, though the differences may be next to meaningless for them.

I agree on hobbyists.


R

 

[richinaus]

I'm fortunate enough to have both a desktop and laptop so I don't need the laptops be be uber powerful, I need them to be uber portable.
So for me, and I've mentioned it before, these laptops are probably one of if not the best laptop I could get for me.
I like the tech, I don't mind or care much if I need a dongle, I like how it looks.

I would so buy something else in a second if I had any doubts the MacBook wasn't for me. I just don't understand buying something and keeping it to complain about it. That's a complete waste of time, finances and the frustration of having to deal with something you don't like which then leads to going onto a website and typing a rant about how much you don't like it. How much time is this thing eating up of your time when you think about it?

I'm also aware there are folks that live and work off of a laptop but again. Don't buy a machine wanting it to be what it isn't. Go find something else.

totally agree. If you need more power, get a desktop. If the MBP is not powerful enough for you then go elsewhere.

it is obvious that these new notebooks are for portability and not power. But that is what they are for isn't it.

In addition it is quite easy for me to max out the usage on a new MBP. But I will choose a desktop to do that type of work on, and keep the laptop for my portable requirements [which it was designed for]. I don't expect either to excel in tasks they were not designed for [lugging an Mac Pro & screen / iMac a around or expecting a laptop to render a scene quickly without fans blasting].

right tool for the right task. it is expensive I admit but works very well.