Quantify that.
I'm an engineer and I say the 2016 MBP is plenty for high-end professional use. People who need a desktop should just get a desktop and quit complaining that the 2016 MBP isn't using desktop parts.
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The Love & The Hate
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I'm an engineer and I say the 2016 MBP is plenty for high-end professional use. People who need a desktop should just get a desktop and quit complaining that the 2016 MBP isn't using desktop parts.
http://www.laptopmag.com/best-laptops
Suppose to have 14 hours of battery life. Now that is something I can use.
If someone has any information on 15" model and its battery life, it would be great.
I've used Apple computers throughout my life. In fact, I've only owned MBP's, but this latest iteration has me looking at other non-MBP laptops.
If Dell's next iteration of 15" has 14 hours of battery life and a better track pad, I will seriously consider it.
Suppose to have 14 hours of battery life. Now that is something I can use.
If someone has any information on 15" model and its battery life, it would be great.
I've used Apple computers throughout my life. In fact, I've only owned MBP's, but this latest iteration has me looking at other non-MBP laptops.
If Dell's next iteration of 15" has 14 hours of battery life and a better track pad, I will seriously consider it.
You probably mean subjectivly. Personally I find the new Macbook Pro's design stale. The industrual design hasn't really changed beside making them thinner. I do not like the rounded corners on the Macs, and I'm tired of all the aluminium. The touch bar reeks of cheap gimmic, and the unnecessarily oversized touchpad comes off as comical and disharmonious.
After all these years the new machines seem just as lazy and uninspired as the Apple company as a whole. The Dell machines are much more interesting with their contrasting metal/carbonfiber coating and black vs. silver color.
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No, i mean objectively, it's a fact.
I would like to see Apple experiment with other materials, such as carbon fiber. I am a minimalist as well, so fewer lines, etc, the better. I too feel the touchbar seems like gimmick, but i'm reserving judgement until I experience it in everyday use (I will miss the escape key... maybe there's a dongle for that?)
The Dells(objectively
) look "cheaper", and the things I like about them have been lifted from Apple laptops.Of course it's based on personal opinion, and my personal opinion is founded on a very long time being a computer user, and working in the IT sector. Your opinion is also based on personal feelings, and in this particular case, your obvious admiration for Apple products and Apple as a company.
Personally I don't really care about companies, I think Apple is one of the most toxic out there (unethical and greedy), but that doesn't prevent me from judging their products by their merits. For example, when I got my 13" Air in 2011, it was good value for money and a very good - albeit imperfect - product. This 2016 Macbook Pro is neither a very good product (too many questionable design decisions), and definitely poor value for money, particularly in the 13" segment.
I don't buy that. I think they don't license OSX or macOS, whatever they call it these days, because they'd be left without a computer business very quickly. I imagine their desktop and workstation market would entirely vanish (you cannot take it to Starbucks to be seen with it), and their laptop market would limp along with considerably reduced sales. And in today's market, you need turnover to survive, and they wouldn't have that. Hence no licensing.
To me this is meaningless. You could put macOS on anything (it's a mangled BSD with extra libraries mostly) and of course you could put iOS on lots of stuff, but who'd buy that? The iPhone is fashion tech, it's a status symbol. Nobody buys it because it's "designed in unison".
Yep. It doesn't do anything useful or better than what I used to do before. Anything at all. I find it utterly ignorable except that the lack of the Esc key is inconvenient. It should have at least some tactile feedback, I don't know if I pressed it or not.
When I buy or use technology I just don't think of myself as being in a camp. This kind of tribalism is not the way I think, because I use so many products made by so many companies. It's very limiting to just pick one, but if I were to pick one, Apple wouldn't make it on the list.
Yes, but you are probably in their "camp" because of signalling. You like what their products say about you: expensive, slick, exclusive, superior. You bought their marketing hook, line and sinker. Don't feel bad about it, they spend billions to do it. It was Steve's great discovery - that you don't need a good product, you just need to make people feel special, and then you can fleece them.
To me Apple products say mostly overpriced, stilted, mediocre and pretentious - with few exceptions. So I am not impressed by the label or the shiny looks, or some mythical software-hardware integration which is no more special than any software-hardware integration out there. If they made a good product, I'd straight say so. This Macbook ain't that good.
[doublepost=1482425858][/doublepost]I remember when Apple yanked the superdrive from the machines.
Professionals went NUTS. They said pretty much the same stuff we're hearing now.
[/QUOTE]
The "professionals" I know yanked out the superdrive themselves and put in hard drives.
Professionals went NUTS. They said pretty much the same stuff we're hearing now.
[/QUOTE]
The "professionals" I know yanked out the superdrive themselves and put in hard drives.
Personally I think the Macbook Pro's keyboard feels like using midi touchpads. Awful... I doubt I could ever get use to that, I almost prefer just tapping away on the iPad. I haven't used the touchbar enough to form a lasting opinion but my initial thoughts weren't that happy with it. I used to be irked about the ridiculous pricing, but I no longer think Id buy it even at half price.
What are you doing on an Apple forum then?
Which just proves how much they didn't need it in the first place.
[doublepost=1482437446][/doublepost]
It was just an expression. What I meant is you're forced into using something you completely don't appreciate.
And it's great that you're so versatile and rational and don't belong to a camp and yet find the time to come to a Mac forum and write how you think Apple is really, really bad in every post you make.
I'll just consider you a troll from this point on.
Well FWIW, my current machine is the original 2008 unibody MacBook.
It had no FireWire, the HDMI didnt support audio, the screen had relatively poor viewing angles, and it's still serving its purpose 8 years on (replaced HDD with SSD and got a new battery before AppleCare ran out).
Thats where the "value" is for me. I dont want to buy new machines every couple of years.
I'm concerned about the battery in the new one. Add if the machine fails, for whatever reason, after AppleCare runs out, how would I get my data?
It had no FireWire, the HDMI didnt support audio, the screen had relatively poor viewing angles, and it's still serving its purpose 8 years on (replaced HDD with SSD and got a new battery before AppleCare ran out).
Thats where the "value" is for me. I dont want to buy new machines every couple of years.
I'm concerned about the battery in the new one. Add if the machine fails, for whatever reason, after AppleCare runs out, how would I get my data?
You have to love all of the hoopla around the word "professional."
Professional simply means that you make money with it. That's it. Same for photography. It does not denote greater importance or skill levels. Who needs more power from a laptop; a gamer or a published writer of cookbooks?
The new tMBP is a great machine for some, less so for others.
And that's pretty much the end of it. Having a positive agenda in discussing these machines is fine. But having a need to bash it is the core of trolling, especially if you find yourself doing it over & over in thread after thread.
Cheers,
Robert
Professional simply means that you make money with it. That's it. Same for photography. It does not denote greater importance or skill levels. Who needs more power from a laptop; a gamer or a published writer of cookbooks?
The new tMBP is a great machine for some, less so for others.
And that's pretty much the end of it. Having a positive agenda in discussing these machines is fine. But having a need to bash it is the core of trolling, especially if you find yourself doing it over & over in thread after thread.
Cheers,
Robert
High-end professional usage are those tasks most demanding upon the system. In example, 4k video editing and beyond, VR, the upper limits of Photoshop and essentially all production environments for these uses and others.
Where some confusion may lie is that obviously not all professional applications are as demanding; if otherwise satisfied with the keyboard and form factor a professional writer could be perfectly satisfied with no more than a MacBook.
By implication a MacBook Pro ought to be something more, better at meeting other tasks. To an extent the 2016 MBP does and by some measures a more capable computer than its predecessors. However it can be fairly argued that with this iteration, and really beginning in 2012 with the rMBP, that Apple chose to aim its top-of-the-line laptop principally at the broad consumer market. In truth they could always have done more, these computers more powerful, yet now most pretense is cast aside.
Desktops are obviously best optimized for heavy tasks. Yet for various reasons laptops are preferred instead. But by the very comparison it is readily apparent the necessary compromises made to allow a small mobile form factor, or that at least in power, etc. they must remain inferior.
Thus the question to what extent. If Apple has by some measures broadly met the majority of needs, and some professional, with the 2016 MBP, certainly not in what this laptop could and arguably should have been. Not if accommodating the high-end.
Final Cut Pro is optimized for OSX. Thus a 2016 MBP running it can outperform a Windows platform with better specs. But that is where the advantage largely ends. OSX optimization with Apple hardware provides an edge in some circumstances, yet with other software the difference is decided by physics and overall specs.
Such as RAM. Video editing can be done with 8GB of RAM; 32GB of RAM would be more the preferred minimum if doing online editing, versus offline. If that largely an academic argument as online editing requires significantly more CPU power than a MBP has.
Not to mention the common desire and need of certain professionals to upgrade their equipment. Or to what extent any MBP since 2012 meets this need, particularly the appliance of the 2016 MBP with most everything glued in place?
Demanding tasks are those such as rendering or the use of filters in Photoshop. Raw horsepower is required and the ideal is for any such task to take place instantly. Again, desktops are best optimized for such, but the question remains to what degree a supposedly high-end laptop should match same.
All this said, it is rather like putting the cart before the horse. The principle question lies in the future of all Macintosh.
Despite some questionable limitations the 2016 MBP would likely not be suffering as much opprobrium if the state of the Macintosh was otherwise healthy. It is not. There is the rub. In laptops the 2016 MBP is supposedly the epitome of that professional, when clearly as the top-of-line model it could be more. This in light of alternatives within OSX which consist principally of the most powerful iMac. The Mac Pro should be it but is three years out of date, not to mention badly configured at the outset with the 2013 redesign. Moreover there is a distinct possibility both it and the Mac Mini will be discontinued.
Then the question of the software. Final Cut Pro is a solid professional application, despite some contention in changes Apple made and its possible future direction. But almost an anomaly as Apple has been systematically either eliminating top-tier software like Aperature, or dumbing it down, witness the direction of iPhoto.
The intent seems to be to better meet the limitations of iOS and integrate OSX with it. That is already in progress. The 2016 MBP is an example both in its hardware and software integration. While there is nothing wrong with such integration per se, with many advantages widespread, the problem is that Apple has chosen to lower the standards of OSX rather than raise those of iOS.
In a world of iPhones and iPads this can be somewhat overlooked. The 2016 MBP will better integrate with them, and increasingly will in time. For common purposes this is mostly for the better. But it does nothing to raise the bar for what iOS might better be, save perhaps when it is forced to due the market forces of competitors. All the while negatively impacting OSX and particularly all high-end tasks it could otherwise be used for.
In short, with the Macintosh Apple is whittling down the software and hardware to a lower and lower common denominator. It should be more than it is today, and could be far more in future if they so chose. Given their current direction that will not happen. To the extent the Macintosh name is retained it will be more an appellation denoting iOS products in a legacy format.
That is why the 2016 MBP matters as much, it is not only one of the forerunners but the most public pronouncement Apple has made of its intended direction. This with distinct and growing limits on the upper levels of computing done for personal and business purposes.
For those so interested, reference here to three relevant articles concerning the demands of 4k video editing, etc. The first provides a good overview:
• https://www.cinema5d.com/is-the-new-macbook-pro-2016-fast-enough-for-4k-video-editing/
• http://terrywhite.com/photographers-imac-retina-5k-vs-mac-pro/
• https://www.videomaker.com/article/f6/17135-editing-in-4k-minimum-system-requirements
Of course it's based on personal opinion, and my personal opinion is founded on a very long time being a computer user, and working in the IT sector. Your opinion is also based on personal feelings, and in this particular case, your obvious admiration for Apple products and Apple as a company.>>>
The above statement (and admittedly some of mine) are where the problem lies within these too-terse debates.
Your long time as a computer user does not issue you any more validity vs. my experience and usage envelope. My 1st computer was a TRS-80 Model 1. Some here go back to the 1st CBM Pet machines and earlier still. But again, that doesn't make someone else's needs more or less important.
In my experienced and professional view, the new tMBP is a home run. They finally put a good keyboard in and the screen is bright enough at last. Apple put the R&D into the interface for this new model and we'll see more power next year and the year after that.
It's clear that some wanted the kitchen sink. Apple has NEVER done that. They subsist on system upgrades for every division and this is no different.
If the new MBP isn't enough for you, then you're wasting your time. They targeted professionals like me and many others. But if you say that the 2015 rMBP is good and this isn't, then I have to say that you're being hypocritical. I have both and the new model is much improved across the board. It's a veritable laundry list up new design and upgrades to the very good previous generation.
Apple wants thinner, sexier and still capable laptops because that's what their data shows as valued by the mainstream. Those needing more processing power will need a desktop or can go to PC.
That's the end. Apple listens to the many over the few because they're in business. Lucky for me, their aim was spot-on for my professional applications. But I don't knock anyone if they have a serious need for something different.
Robert
The above statement (and admittedly some of mine) are where the problem lies within these too-terse debates.
Your long time as a computer user does not issue you any more validity vs. my experience and usage envelope. My 1st computer was a TRS-80 Model 1. Some here go back to the 1st CBM Pet machines and earlier still. But again, that doesn't make someone else's needs more or less important.
In my experienced and professional view, the new tMBP is a home run. They finally put a good keyboard in and the screen is bright enough at last. Apple put the R&D into the interface for this new model and we'll see more power next year and the year after that.
It's clear that some wanted the kitchen sink. Apple has NEVER done that. They subsist on system upgrades for every division and this is no different.
If the new MBP isn't enough for you, then you're wasting your time. They targeted professionals like me and many others. But if you say that the 2015 rMBP is good and this isn't, then I have to say that you're being hypocritical. I have both and the new model is much improved across the board. It's a veritable laundry list up new design and upgrades to the very good previous generation.
Apple wants thinner, sexier and still capable laptops because that's what their data shows as valued by the mainstream. Those needing more processing power will need a desktop or can go to PC.
That's the end. Apple listens to the many over the few because they're in business. Lucky for me, their aim was spot-on for my professional applications. But I don't knock anyone if they have a serious need for something different.
Robert
Fair argument, yet still, I doubt that even a Razer Blade Pro would be capable of 4K online rendering. I don't think such a machine would sustain that much stress, after all, that's a different league than gaming.
Let's be honest, these are things meant to be done on a desktop workhorse. It makes sense to edit proxy based on the go and work full-res when in office. The only issue here is that Apple simply doesn't offer such a workhorse anymore. But that's not a problem with the MBP per se, as it's not the use case of todays Notebooks, don't you agree?
I'm certainly not a top of the line movie producer, but I've gained quite some software development experience over all the years. The raw specs of this machine are certainly capable of developing state of the art computer graphics applications, which usually are demanding. I mean hell, my PC workstation at work is an outdated 16GB GTX 780 PC, which is still more than enough to power our applications without loosing iteration time.
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To an extent.
Insofar as Apple is aiming at the broadest possible consumer market in laptops, then yes, the specifications of the 2016 MBP largely meet those parameters. I'd view it a mid-tier offering, the MacBook first in better meeting simpler tasks. Only they might have used a different name; the capability and at least pretension of what a MacBook Pro is simply AWOL. In other words, with three tiers with the MacBook first and 2016 MBP second, there is no third top tier offering.
This entirely aside from limitations of the 2016 MBP witnessed in lack of legacy ports, glue, etc. The question of repairability and eventual resale value. Ongoing GPU glitches, or Consumer Reports for the first time not recommending a MacBook due battery problems. Etc.
That aside, the eight hundred pound gorilla of Apple's goodwill and intentions towards the Macintosh.
But, yes, in principle there is nothing at all wrong in addressing the needs of the many who would like something a bit more than a MacBook.
LOL... I used Dell as an example but feel free to insert any PC manufacturer...
I guess I'm simply not the target audience of such a third tier offering and as such, I don't understand it's utility. To me, portability is the number one characteristic of a notebook. There's only so much performance you can put into a portable case, without making some sacrifices.
However, I DO think the "Pro" tag is justified. People like me use their notebook for work and enjoy the freedom of carrying around the computing power sufficient for 99% of their tasks wherever they want. And the less I have to think about all of the hardware enabling me to do so, the happier I am.
It is justified. The performance is great for some serious apps and workflows, it can be a desktop replacement for a lot of people - photographers, sculptors, illustrators, writers, animators, video editors, etc. Of course, you can find better performing hardware for certain tasks, but that's not the point. The fact that some people need more specs doesn't make this a non-pro device, no matter what people here say.
It's Apple and Apple garners controversy, simple.
While I agree with you, it's clear than a certain small group is unhappy with the aim of Apple these days. I'm not looking to discredit them, just point out that Apple is not interested in their needs (at least for now).
R.
[doublepost=1482446609][/doublepost]
Again perfectly said.
So much for school and I'm satisfied that this thread proved that there are some real users who'd be happier if Apple went in a different direction.
But I'm equally happy that it's made very clear here that we have a few serial complainers, who have no need for the features they bemoan.
R.
This time I'm requesting that we have this thread ended!
Mission accomplished. Thanks for the reasonable positive and negative replies from the working majority.
Cheers,
R
Mission accomplished. Thanks for the reasonable positive and negative replies from the working majority.
Cheers,
R
But.... but that's perfectly normal. Microsoft isn't interested in every group either, and no one here is claiming Surface Studio isn't a pro device, although it cleatly isn't meant for everyone (some people need 64Gb RAM on a desktop, or a Xeon CPU for example - and Microsoft is not making those). Same with Surface Pro that doesn't come with quad-core CPUs or more than 16Gb RAM, same with Wacom MobileStudio Pro (which is almost exclusively built for professionals) - I mean, each company targets a specific audience.
Apple is targeting a specific group, people who have above average computer requirements for some serious work - but don't require workstation-class devices.
[doublepost=1482446826][/doublepost]
Actually, I do agree with you if you read through my posts
Didn't say you don't - in fact I was agreeing with you
I was just giving my own take on what you said.
I don't own one of the new Macbook Pros. I am also a writer, and produce thousands of words of content every day. I don't need two weeks to figure out that the keyboard on the new machines is a turd. Five minutes in store was all I needed to get a "yuk" response. I also don't need two weeks to know that low movement on things like keyboards is directly linked to repetitive strain injuries and this keyboard is going to be terrible for causing Carpel Tunnel.
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