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Uplift

macrumors 6502
Feb 1, 2011
465
187
UK
With respect, the 2016 MacBook Pro is not designed or adequate for high-end professional use. For some professional applications it will prove suitable (despite many questionable limitations), but certainly not others, with those customers simply abandoned.

Moreover anyone with a love of all Macintosh should be more than concerned, as the advent of the 2016 MBP marked a public sea change from Apple. It is an open secret now that the Macintosh is viewed by Apple as a legacy product, with what remnants of it they decide to retain incorporated into the iOS sphere. The 2016 MBP is an iOS hybrid, the hardware a blend between that existing and the iWatch; the software no less so, with Sierra a mixture of that formally OSX and iOS. As far as this goes it is only the beginning. Apple has disbanded the OSX software team, melding them into the iOS software effort, which takes precedence.

As others, I can speak to the 2016 MBP, even though purposefully not having bought one. With reason. Chances are more than a few others in this same boat know quite a bit more about the 2016 MBP than the actual owners at this point, as quite concerned about Apple's present direction and having studied it closely.

This is nothing to be sanguine about.

Please define "high end professional use"?

Apple should just drop the word 'Pro' - it's making the Mac professional elitists think this notebook is designed for them. This is a mass market notebook for those that can afford it. It's a relatively powerful notebook. Nothing more.

Pro stands for their pro line of notebook, i.e. better than a Macbook.

Pro does not stand for 'OMG THIS NOTEBOOK IS FOR HIGH END PROFESSIONALS, ONLY CGI GRAPHIC DESIGNERS FOR HOLLYWOOD BLOCKBUSTERS AND QUANTUM SCIENTISTS TRYING TO COMMUNICATE WITH ALIENS THAT NEEDS 17 GAZILLION TERAFLOPS OF COMPUTING POWER'

Seriously, get over yourselves.

Most of your post is complete rubbish... iOS/macOS hybrid? really? how so? you mean the absolutely beautiful integration between the two platforms? Apple has already said they are not abandoning macOS, their desktop or their notebooks.
 
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ihatetoregister

Suspended
Sep 13, 2016
269
178
Oslo, Norway
Ok that's a much more concise way of putting what I put in my post in the previous page, thanks for that :)

I guess I'm high-end professional, I work with my laptop and do things I've always done with my laptops, i.e. programming, running VMs etc.
It's a more intensive use than the glorified typewriter use that hipsters love, but it's not "super crazy" in terms of professional use.
In that case you would go for macPro, iMac etc.
 
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lowendlinux

macrumors 603
Sep 24, 2014
5,439
6,735
Germany
I'm fortunate enough to have both a desktop and laptop so I don't need the laptops be be uber powerful, I need them to be uber portable.
So for me, and I've mentioned it before, these laptops are probably one of if not the best laptop I could get for me.
I like the tech, I don't mind or care much if I need a dongle, I like how it looks.

I would so buy something else in a second if I had any doubts the MacBook wasn't for me. I just don't understand buying something and keeping it to complain about it. That's a complete waste of time, finances and the frustration of having to deal with something you don't like which then leads to going onto a website and typing a rant about how much you don't like it. How much time is this thing eating up of your time when you think about it?

I'm also aware there are folks that live and work off of a laptop but again. Don't buy a machine wanting it to be what it isn't. Go find something else.

I've never understood the desire to ditch desktops they are quieter, more powerful, and more extensible than any laptop. I'm with you I'll take something small and light when I need to go and use my desktop as my main machine.
 
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MH01

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Feb 11, 2008
12,107
9,297
I've never understood the desire to ditch desktops they are quieter, more powerful, and more extensible than any laptop. I'm with you I'll take something small and light when I need to go and use my desktop as my main machine.

I've gone for a compromise.

Intel Skull Canyon, Have a monitor and power brick setup at home and work, just carry the box with me, I find it a great compromise, and if I want extra power, it plugs into a razer core etc and kicks ass. I got fed up with TB gpus just not working with MacBooks.... just need a plug and play solution.

Laptops will never replace my desktops for my needs. Not while TB is still bandwidth limited for things like GPUs.
 
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aevan

macrumors 601
Feb 5, 2015
4,298
6,818
Serbia
With respect, the 2016 MacBook Pro is not designed or adequate for high-end professional use.

I use it for professional use daily. It's designed great for it.

For some professional applications it will prove suitable (despite many questionable limitations), but certainly not others, with those customers simply abandoned.

Same with every computer: good for some, bad for others.

Moreover anyone with a love of all Macintosh should be more than concerned, as the advent of the 2016 MBP marked a public sea change from Apple. It is an open secret now that the Macintosh is viewed by Apple as a legacy product, with what remnants of it they decide to retain incorporated into the iOS sphere. The 2016 MBP is an iOS hybrid, the hardware a blend between that existing and the iWatch; the software no less so, with Sierra a mixture of that formally OSX and iOS. As far as this goes it is only the beginning. Apple has disbanded the OSX software team, melding them into the iOS software effort, which takes precedence.

Hearsay, speculation and clicbait articles. And what hybrid are you talking about?

As others, I can speak to the 2016 MBP, even though purposefully not having bought one. With reason.

Ah. Here's the real reason behind the criticism. I didn't get it, so it sucks.

Chances are more than a few others in this same boat know quite a bit more about the 2016 MBP than the actual owners at this point.


Yes, because speculation is more accurate than actually using the device.

Now, please make this post complete by mentioning XPS 15".
 
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ihatetoregister

Suspended
Sep 13, 2016
269
178
Oslo, Norway
Ah. Here's the real reason behind the criticism. I didn't get it, so it sucks.

Not the guy you're answering to, but what a poor argument.
I have one and it sucks. I guess you'll say something like "You're the exception", "You're a shill"or anything along those lines now ?
Please.
Read my post on the previous page where I give 9-10 reasons it sucks.

Now, please make this post complete by mentioning XPS 15".

Dude... Really ?
So now to not offend die hard fanboys, you must :

- Own the Apple product, because clearly judging on specs, pictures or trying in a shop is an uncomprehensible feat for the human mind so it must be pure speculation.

- Not mentioning any of the competition which produces better machine because ... I'm not sure, "shilling" maybe ?
But then what if I have 3 computers all coming from different brands that are better, am I multi-shilling ? I'm lost in this process of being non-offending the delicate flowers here :)
 

symphara

macrumors 6502a
Nov 21, 2013
670
649
Ah. Here's the real reason behind the criticism. I didn't get it, so it sucks.
I got one, and I'm not that enthusiastic at all about it. After using it for a few hours, it sunk in that I have a laptop with 4 charging ports and no usable (for me) wired connectivity whatsoever, until I remembered I also bought the dongle (you know, the USB-A one), which was somewhere in the house (it got delivered much faster than the laptop).

Now, please make this post complete by mentioning XPS 15".
The leaked 15" XPS with the Kaby Lake HQ CPUs, fingerprint reader and GTX 1050 sounds outstanding.
 
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aevan

macrumors 601
Feb 5, 2015
4,298
6,818
Serbia
The leaked 15" XPS with the Kaby Lake HQ CPUs, fingerprint reader and GTX 1050 sounds outstanding.

How so? Any battery benefit of Kaby Lake will be lost due to the smaller battery, fingerprint reader will probably suck because no 3rd party developer will make use of it and 1050 is only marginally faster than 460 (if at all). And it will still be a Dell. It will be a (maybe) slightly faster, uglier computer with worse trackpad, speakers and running Windows. It will be cheaper, so there's that.

It will only be better if you absolutely have to use 32Gb RAM, fine. But your definition of outstanding clearly differs from mine.
 

Guy Mancuso

macrumors 6502a
Mar 28, 2009
862
43
I've never understood the desire to ditch desktops they are quieter, more powerful, and more extensible than any laptop. I'm with you I'll take something small and light when I need to go and use my desktop as my main machine.

It's really not a matter of ditching the desktop. It's being able to be on the road and being able to continue to work. I have to process images just as fast and efficient if not more so on the road sometimes than being in my office. It's a pain because I do have to buy the fastest laptop and bigger one at that. We are all not just doing email and surfing the web on the road it's a productivity issue.
 
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symphara

macrumors 6502a
Nov 21, 2013
670
649
How so? Any battery benefit of Kaby Lake will be lost due to the smaller battery
The SSD version can be ordered with the 84Wh battery, which is bigger than the 15" Macbook Pro's 76Wh battery.

fingerprint reader will probably suck because no 3rd party developer will make use of it
This is mere speculation but for sure the one on the Macbook is barely used by OSX itself. Yesterday I must have typed in my password about 20 times, to log in after boot, access keychain items and install various stuff on it. In fact, the only use I saw was unlocking it from sleep.

The last Windows laptop I owned (Lenovo T61p, 2007 model) had a fingerprint reader that was used by the supplied software more than this Macbook. For example, Vista allowed log-in from boot using the fingerprint reader, it had something like KeyChain which actually accepted fingerprint input etc.

So I'd say your speculation is unfounded.

and 1050 is only marginally faster than 460 (if at all). And it will still be a Dell. It will be a (maybe) slightly faster, uglier computer with worse trackpad, speakers and running Windows. It will be cheaper, so there's that.
I don't think it's uglier, and you're definitely an outlier on this one. I think Windows is fine, it's a better OS as far as I can tell compared to OSX and has better software support.

It will only be better if you absolutely have to use 32Gb RAM, fine. But your definition of outstanding clearly differs from mine.
Definitely. You can get better hardware (CPU, GPU, 4k display, memory) for less money. It's also more upgradable - notably, you can change the disk in it.
 
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magbarn

macrumors 68030
Oct 25, 2008
2,957
2,253
How so? Any battery benefit of Kaby Lake will be lost due to the smaller battery, fingerprint reader will probably suck because no 3rd party developer will make use of it and 1050 is only marginally faster than 460 (if at all). And it will still be a Dell. It will be a (maybe) slightly faster, uglier computer with worse trackpad, speakers and running Windows. It will be cheaper, so there's that.

It will only be better if you absolutely have to use 32Gb RAM, fine. But your definition of outstanding clearly differs from mine.
The recent XPS 15 models have 2 different size batteries a 56 and a 84 watt hours. The 56 is the smaller battery that allows Dell to place a regular HDD so they can price it cheaper. The SSD models come with the 84 watt battery which last time I checked, is bigger than the 2016 rMBP 15...

We'll see. Given that the 460 Pro that Apple uses is slower than the Desktop 460 and Nvidia has promised that their new laptop GPU's are basically on par with their desktop counterparts tells me otherwise...

I agree with the trackpad, that's why I don't have one yet. Hopefully the Kaby lake models are better...
 

aevan

macrumors 601
Feb 5, 2015
4,298
6,818
Serbia
The SSD version can be ordered with the 84Wh battery, which is bigger than the 15" Macbook Pro's 76Wh battery.

Ok, did not know that, my bad. We'll see how it's battery life holds up.

This is mere speculation but for sure the one on the Macbook is barely used by OSX itself. Yesterday I must have typed in my password about 20 times, to log in after boot, access keychain items and install various stuff on it. In fact, the only use I saw was unlocking it from sleep.

I don't know, I use it constantly to log in, allow installs and acces 1Password. Don't remember if I even typed a password other than initial login on my MBP.

The last Windows laptop I owned (Lenovo T61p, 2007 model) had a fingerprint reader that was used by the supplied software more than this Macbook. For example, Vista allowed log-in from boot using the fingerprint reader, it had something like KeyChain which actually accepted fingerprint input etc.

So I'd say your speculation is unfounded.

Maybe, we'll see. And maybe the fingerprint sensor will be just as good as Touch ID. I doubt it, but lets wait and see.

I don't think it's uglier, and you're definitely an outlier on this one. I think Windows is fine, it's a better OS as far as I can tell compared to OSX and has better software support.

What you call an outlier, I call having taste, but whatever - de gustibus non disputandum est.

As for Windows, we differ so much here that any other discussion is pointless. And software support - well, that depends on what software you use, doesn't it.


Definitely. You can get better hardware (CPU, GPU, 4k display, memory) for less money.

Yes, and if that is all you care about - go for Dell, definitely. In fact, I don't know why you even bought a Mac, all of its benefits are lost on you. You obviously think Dell is just as well built, Windows is fine, etc. I'm guessing you don't care much about the Touch Bar either, as well as Trackpad, Apple ecosystem, etc. Really, Dell is the computer for you. I mean it without sarcasm.


It's also more upgradable - notably, you can change the disk in it.

Don't really care about that, but sure, it's nice to be able to upgrade it.

No doubt - the new XPS will be a great computer for you. I think you missed the correct forums to post your thoughts in, though - but that's beside the point.
[doublepost=1482418767][/doublepost]
- Own the Apple product, because clearly judging on specs, pictures or trying in a shop is an uncomprehensible feat for the human mind so it must be pure speculation.

No, it was more in line with "sour grapes". Most people here start their criticism with "too expensive" or "for half the price I can get..." - which means they either can't afford the computer or are not willing to part with that much money for it - so then it's easier to convince oneself that it just sucks.
 

Rafterman

Contributor
Apr 23, 2010
6,869
8,172
Too much hangup on the word "professional". If you use it for work, even if its just email and web services, then its a "Pro" model laptop to you. "Pro" is just a marketing term. It either meets your specific needs or it doesn't, regardless what it's called. That's up to the individual to decide.
 

ihatetoregister

Suspended
Sep 13, 2016
269
178
Oslo, Norway
No, it was more in line with "sour grapes". Most people here start their criticism with "too expensive" or "for half the price I can get..." - which means they either can't afford the computer or are not willing to part with that much money for it - so then it's easier to convince oneself that it just sucks.

Well too expensive is definitely an argument in itself. I use it, I think it (strongly) and I didn't even pay for mine!

I think at this point criticism isn't bitterness or jealousy / envy, which is why the original post is so preposterous.
Like you, I can't stand Windows, but it looks like I'll have to make the jump.
[doublepost=1482420152][/doublepost]
Too much hangup on the word "professional". If you use it for work, even if its just email and web services, then its a "Pro" model laptop to you. "Pro" is just a marketing term. It either meets your specific needs or it doesn't, regardless what it's called. That's up to the individual to decide.

... You must be trolling.
 
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symphara

macrumors 6502a
Nov 21, 2013
670
649
I don't know, I use it constantly to log in, allow installs and acces 1Password. Don't remember if I even typed a password other than initial login on my MBP.
I don't use 1Password but I do use KeyChain, i.e. the default OSX solution, which does not accept the fingerprint for authentication. Bizarre.

Maybe, we'll see. And maybe the fingerprint sensor will be just as good as Touch ID. I doubt it, but lets wait and see.
The fingerprint sensor on my relatively cheap Huawei phone is pretty much flawless, so I think the tech is there for anyone to use.

What you call an outlier, I call having taste, but whatever - de gustibus non disputandum est.
I'm not talking about having taste or not. I said "outlier" in the statistical sense: I've seen a lot of laptop reviews and comparisons, and certainly the Dell XPS is generally admired from an aesthetic point of view. So perhaps it's not that you have taste where others don't - perhaps you don't have common sense.

As for Windows, we differ so much here that any other discussion is pointless. And software support - well, that depends on what software you use, doesn't it.
No, I meant in the general sense. More software is available for Windows than for OSX, and more software is available for OSX compared to Linux. Of course, if you need or just use specific products, this is irrelevant, but for people who are simply looking for a general-purpose computer, it is important.

Yes, and if that is all you care about - go for Dell, definitely. In fact, I don't know why you even bought a Mac, all of its benefits are lost on you. You obviously think Dell is just as well built, Windows is fine, etc.
I am working on a multi-platform product and unfortunately an OSX port is needed. I wouldn't consider an iMac point blank (overpriced, sub-mediocre hardware), so I'm left with the Macbook as the only option of legit OSX hardware.

If Apple would license OSX I wouldn't buy one, but so would probably 90% of their computer customers, and they know it, so they don't.

I'm guessing you don't care much about the Touch Bar either, as well as Trackpad, Apple ecosystem, etc.
Correct.

The Touch Bar is at the moment a minor inconvenience (such as Esc for vi), otherwise, honestly, I haven't really looked at it. I use the laptop in my lap, on a couch, and from that angle I just don't see the stuff drawn on the touch bar.

The trackpad is unnecessarily large, but otherwise, fine. I don't think the XPS has a significantly worse trackpad, and probably a better keyboard.

The Apple ecosystem is irrelevant to me. All my work is done using Eclipse, SourceTree, Chrome etc. I wouldn't accept vendor lock-in unless for exceptional reasons, and Apple provides none as far as I can tell.

No doubt - the new XPS will be a great computer for you. I think you missed the correct forums to post your thoughts in, though - but that's beside the point.
Correction: the XPS would be a great computer for me, and I hope that after this iteration with an Apple product I can be free of this company. In the meantime, this new Macbook will make do.

However it is disingenuous to claim that people who criticise or dislike it do so just because they cannot afford one or do not have one. I have one (2.9/460 actually) and I just wanted to give you (and others) a counter-example.

This laptop is nothing to go ga-ga about. It's overall an ok laptop with some very questionable design choices, mediocre OS and too high of a price tag.
 

Guy Mancuso

macrumors 6502a
Mar 28, 2009
862
43
I paid 3200 for my top end 2013 15 inch when that came out. So it's about 300 dollars more. Given inflation it's not terrible but it's still not cheap and everyone would like a lower cost for sure. Some may say we paid too much and some may say it's fair. End of day do you need it or not and that's a personal thing. No one is really wrong here as we all know Apple is usually a higher price computing device than the competition. For me I will never go back to Windows machines. Just software change alone is a small fortune
 

hawkeye_a

macrumors 68000
Jun 27, 2016
1,637
4,381
My 13" tbMBP is on its way. Having said that....

I expect the next version(anyone's guess as to which century that might happen)... will have the form-fitted battery (so higher capacity), kaby-lake, and faster RAM.
 

ihatetoregister

Suspended
Sep 13, 2016
269
178
Oslo, Norway
I paid 3200 for my top end 2013 15 inch when that came out. So it's about 300 dollars more. Given inflation it's not terrible but it's still not cheap and everyone would like a lower cost for sure. Some may say we paid too much and some may say it's fair. End of day do you need it or not and that's a personal thing. No one is really wrong here as we all know Apple is usually a higher price computing device than the competition. For me I will never go back to Windows machines. Just software change alone is a small fortune

You don't get the highest margins in the industry on a laptop with ripping off some pigeons.
Yes, we are the pigeons and that's why they continue, even when producing ...this.

Cost of switching is definitely covered by the difference you'd pay on the machine itself.
A 1TB / 16GB/ 4k / Kabylake / TB3 Razer Blade Stealth cost 2000$, which is half of what I paid for my maxed out 13".
Also better specs.
I'd be more concerned with Windows itself (That's a pretty bad OS in my opinion. Terrible, even.), and the time to learn again (in case you're using specific tools, like I do).
But Apple pushed too far this time, this is my last machine.
 
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echoout

macrumors 6502a
Aug 15, 2007
600
16
Austin, Texas
My 2012 MBP ended up being my last one (unless something changes) to my utter surprise. I'm eye-brow deep in the Apple ecosystem but a MBP that is slower than my last one for 3D work and lacks the ports every other pro machine has is not working for me. Moving to Windows is not my idea of a good time but I've got work to do.
 

CaptRB

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Oct 11, 2016
940
1,015
LA, California
Is it trolling and I'm taking the bait ? Or are you annoyed because you like your Mac and can't stand other people not liking it ?
If the latter and you just like your mac, just be happy with it and forget it. :)


What annoys me is that a majority of the critics are what we call "spec hunters" and don't need much of what they're complaining about. I've asked some of these folk to outline their workflow and how the new tMBP was injurious and the silence has been deafening.


But please don't say completely unproven things like "criticism comes from non-owner and non-professionals", this is just not right. And not helpful.


Agreed, but I'll temper it with the word "mostly."


I'm an owner, and definitely a professional : programmer, running VM, servers & the works.
This is Apple's worst machine, and I used Apple since 2006 now and I've been quite used to the scam attitude where they sell overpriced machines with crappy components ( personally I particularly didn't digest the "let's continue to sell crappy USB2 ports while the PC world is at USB3, and continue to do so for 2.5 years", or the HDMI which took time to birth ) .


I'm also a professional. I'm a photographer using the top tier cameras and PP software. I do very minor video work and also write. My wife is a wound care specialist using the new MBP to run hospital software. I also own last years 15" rMBP and these machines best it in every way I consider important to my work. MY work is the key here, because YOUR work has different requirements and I respect that. They didn't build it for YOU; they built it for a highly researched majority of users along with a long term marketing plan.


But :
1) Sacrificing negligible, impossible to "feel", gains on weight and size for a much less powerful battery is just plain stupid.

NOT stupid for marketing.


2) Removing magsafe is unforgivable. People who go to conferences, have dogs or kids are certainly all bitter about this change.


TONS of other notebooks, which are great in their own right, don't have MagSafe. MagSafe has always been an expensive problem for me. Happy to see it go. And if I attend a conference with dogs, I can add MagSafe via a cheap adapter.


3) Adapter gate : The idea that your machine is going to look ridiculous for the next 3 years until you renew all your peripherals so that in 3 years, once renewed, you can say "look, no adapters" to the few people who won't have ONE USB-C ports on their PC is just preposterous. Stupid, even.


How does my machine look ridiculous? Who's looking? This is just a non issue that I can't believe anyone cares about. I always needed a car reader. I still do. So no I have a few tiny USB adapters and a USB-C to DP for my 4K monitors. Everything works and my tethered D810 camera works better.

4) Also, no lightning port to connect your iPhone7, are you for real ??


I don't use the iPhone since adopting the more flexible Android phones, but I believe a cheap cable solves this issue, no?


5) Power wise we're being given an old generation of processors. It would have been ok if the release happened last year, but not now that Kabylake line is being launched.


So wait a year if you want the latest Kabylake. The MBP lineup gets upgraded every year. No notebook is going to get it all perfect.


6) Nothing really interesting - the screen has average resolution, no 4k, no OLED, I really wish I would have had a "wow" factor. Instead I'm going to drool over the Yoga and its OLED screen.


OLED may have a wear issue and loses brightness. Apple stuck with a technology they've refined and as a photographer, I can tell you with authority that these new screens are a serious improvement over the 2015.


7) Keyboard is awful.


Well, that's your personal opinion. But I'm sure you've seen that many love it. If you can't adapt after a couple of weeks, I'd get rid of it. I can work faster on this non-mushy keyboard as can my wife, who types crazy fast.


8) Incredibly overpriced, and not impressive in terms of look AND hardware AND price compared to say, OLED Yoga, or Dell XPS15, or Razer Blade Stealth (the new one).


I won't get into a windows machine again. It's just that simple.


9) Still don't use the Touch Bar, it definitely start entering the "gimmick" phase for me. Especially at home where I use a stand.


I'm using it for video and it's pretty slick. My screenwriting software will also be using it. But it's too early to know if the TB is a winner/loser.


So no, negative comments come also from owners and professionals. Particularly from them.


Yours is among the very few "pro" complaints I've heard. I work in Hollywood and the adoption for the machines is rapid. Indie shooters are snapping them up for the brighter screens alone. This comes down to what sort of professional is in the picture, yes?


As to the switch to Windows, between the habits, the walled garden you put yourself in by using Apple, and the app you bought, it's not that easy.
Also personally Windows still has an awful "feel" to me, and poor design.
But be ****ing sure that if they could run macOS on any laptops (and I'm not talking hackintoshs), you could be sure professionals wouldn't be choosing the Apple ones.


That would be a very different marketplace. Apple owns their OS, so it's their ballgame.



R

[doublepost=1482425858][/doublepost]I remember when Apple yanked the superdrive from the machines.

Professionals went NUTS. They said pretty much the same stuff we're hearing now.

They knew what they were doing because they have an overview of the market that is far beyond what we "think" we know.

Within 12 months more than 1/2 of the folks complaining will buy one of these new machines. 24 months after that most of the others will also pay the premium. Apple will lose some users, but will gain far more.

Apple is a business. They are not in the business of satisfying a small group of users that would hurt their margins.

I'm very happy with the new tMBP (obviously). I understand that others are not, but no one is forcing you to buy it.



R.
 

raqball

macrumors 68020
Sep 11, 2016
2,323
9,573
I wonder how long the MacBooks would survive if Dell and others were allowed to make MacOS machines? My guess would be about 27 seconds...... Apple would sell 1/100th of what they currently do...

It's a good thing, for Apple, that they are the only MacOS game in town...
 
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hawkeye_a

macrumors 68000
Jun 27, 2016
1,637
4,381
I wonder how long the MacBooks would survive if Dell and others were allowed to make MacOS machines? My guess would be about 27 seconds...... Apple would sell 1/100th of what they currently do...

It's a good thing, for Apple, that they are the only MacOS game in town...
You know, despite all the negativity in the online community regarding these MBPs, Apple claims that they have been the fastest selling. (Yes I know, there was pent up demand).

But if people "in the real world" are voting to buy this product, can it really be considered that "bad"?

IMHO, for me, the *only* thing which bothers me about the new machine is the lack of magsafe.
 

raqball

macrumors 68020
Sep 11, 2016
2,323
9,573
You know, despite all the negativity in the online community regarding these MBPs, Apple claims that they have been the fastest selling. (Yes I know, there was pent up demand).

But if people "in the real world" are voting to buy this product, can it really be considered that "bad"?

IMHO, for me, the *only* thing which bothers me about the new machine is the lack of magsafe.

I like mine well enough but consider this for a minute...

A Dell MacOS machine would have higher specs and probably come in at $400 less.. If that were the case would Apple really still sell a ton of MacBooks? I think not..
 
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aevan

macrumors 601
Feb 5, 2015
4,298
6,818
Serbia
If Apple would license OSX I wouldn't buy one, but so would probably 90% of their computer customers, and they know it, so they don't.

First of all, a vast majority of people would still get a MacBook, because of the brand, looks and trust in the company. Your 90% figure is not based on facts, but on your personal feelings. You just can't accept the fact that a vast majority of people love Apple products, as opposed to being forced into using them (as is the case with you)

Second, the software is half of the product. It is the combination of software and hardware that is Apple's biggest strenght. Full control of the product is their advantage and that is the reason they don't licence macOS. The way you presented it seems cynical to me. iPhone is not an iPhone without iOS. iOS is not iOS without the iPhone. Mac is not a Mac without macOS and vice versa. They are designed in unison.

I also find it funny that you describe the Touch Bar as a minor inconvenience. Inconvenience? Oh boy, you're really forced into the wrong camp, aren't you?
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A Dell MacOS machine would have higher specs and probably come in at $400 less. If that were the case would Apple really still sell a ton of MacBooks? I think not..

True - if Apple would licence macOS to Dell, I would avoid not only the MacBook, but the entire company. They would momentarily lose all respect in my eyes and lose all trust. It is because how Apple designs both the software and the hardware side of the product that makes them stand out.
 
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hawkeye_a

macrumors 68000
Jun 27, 2016
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A Dell MacOS machine would have higher specs and probably come in at $400 less.. If that were the case would Apple really still sell a ton of MacBooks? I think not..

Would I buy a Dell if it came with MacOS? No.

Why? Aesthetically they are inferior(objective). When it comes to innovative hardware design (size/weight/noise/materials), they lag behind Apple. Dell seems to be more of a "hardware assembler" than designer. So personally, I appreciate the work that Apple puts in compared to Dell. But that's just me.

However, I realize that one might value hardware specs more than I personally do.
 
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