'The Morning Show' Producers on Negative Reviews: 'There Were a Lot of Apple Haters and Wanting Apple to Fail'

[delhifox]

Apple never said they were going to run the one year free deal for a full year; it could end at any time.

But I think you misunderstand their intentions. They’re not trying to become a huge media company; if that’s what they wanted they could buy AT&T, Comcast, Viacom or Disney. They’re not interested.

"It could end at any time" = lawyer talk.. they will keep it free until they have a sizeable $$ worthy content...they understand this clearly..hence its free..on semi permanent basis.

Please help me understand their hidden/secret intention here? Asking people to pay $$/month for 8 shows in 2019 is a s****y thing to do.. by this time next year you will have 2 new daddies here, Peacock and HBO Max..how do you compete with their quality(HBO is still kind of the gold standard!) and large libraries? ATV+ will be there with 24 shows?? Thats it?? Just because I have 20+ Apple devices in my house(no windows or android allowed!), don't expect me to treat them differently for my screen money. There is no glue that ties devices and content...otherwise Netflix won't be Netflix with 160+Million subs.

Throwing money - a lot of money at creative(read LA people) doesn't work in creative business. Thats why there are called producers and not financier...otherwise banks would be all over them and making great ROIs. Dont go to Hollywood with your fancy talented project manger(google tried and failed in its initial days)...This game needs talent, money AND time. Since you have zillion $$ in the bank, why not just buy talent and content which will add some meaningful value to your sticky ecosystem. You have already seen this with Beats, pay class money, get class talent and create amazing product! As a shareholder and someone who spends 1000s of $$/year on them, isn't this a better way to spend my money?

 

[TheSapient]

This is just embarrassing. Critics don't judge these shows based on some hatred of Apple. It is embarrassing when the producers claim otherwise. It is embarrassing when posters here claim otherwise.

Audience scores are far, far more likely to reflect some internalizes bias (if that is even an appropriate concept when judging enjoyment). The audience is a self-selected group of people who watch something because they enjoy it. Audience scores are generally pretty high because of that. But sometimes people are angry about a show, whether they watch it or not, and they rank it low for those personal reasons.

Audience scores are pretty meaningless for show success. Audience size matters. For example, Lucifer was panned by critics in its first season (with subsequent seasons hardly pulling in any reviews). But the audience loved it. Did the critics have an anti-FOX bias? How did a show with 85% positive audience reviews struggle to gain viewers? The audience is specifically the people who, in all the world, like the show the most. That is why the audience score is high, and also why it tells us nothing about a show's quality or chances of success.

Or consider Watchmen. Critics are almost unanimous in their praise. But the audience score is low. Why? Because it deals with racism, which a few thousand people took to be criticism of them, and they flooded Rotten Tomatoes with their political rage. Again, that score tells us nothing about the show's quality nor its chances of success.

 

[PickUrPoison]

"It could end at any time" = lawyer talk.. they will keep it free until they have a sizeable $$ worthy content...they understand this clearly..hence its free..on semi permanent basis.

Please help me understand their hidden/secret intention here? Asking people to pay $$/month for 8 shows in 2019 is a s****y thing to do.. by this time next year you will have 2 new daddies here, Peacock and HBO Max..how do you compete with their quality(HBO is still kind of the gold standard!) and large libraries? ATV+ will be there with 24 shows?? Thats it?? Just because I have 20+ Apple devices in my house(no windows or android allowed!), don't expect me to treat them differently for my screen money. There is no glue that ties devices and content...otherwise Netflix won't be Netflix with 160+Million subs.

Throwing money - a lot of money at creative(read LA people) doesn't work in creative business. Thats why there are called producers and not financier...otherwise banks would be all over them and making great ROIs. Dont go to Hollywood with your fancy talented project manger(google tried and failed in its initial days)...This game needs talent, money AND time. Since you have zillion $$ in the bank, why not just buy talent and content which will add some meaningful value to your sticky ecosystem. You have already seen this with Beats, pay class money, get class talent and create amazing product! As a shareholder and someone who spends 1000s of $$/year on them, isn't this a better way to spend my money?

Limited time offer isn’t exactly “lawyer talk” but correct, the deal could end at any time.

As an Apple shareholder, you probably realize that Apple management isn’t stupid. In what world do you imagine Apple would go to Hollywood with $5 billion to throw around to creative types by a “project manager”? Do you have any idea how ridiculous and naive that sounds?

Apple knows exactly what they’re doing. They’ve got hundreds of folks working on ATV+ at this point. And you can rest easy, they’re not being led by a project manager—try two long-time Sony presidents. Cook hired them 2.5 years ago, Jamie Erlicht and Zack Van Amburg. From Apple’s press release:

​

Erlicht and Van Amburg have served as presidents of Sony Pictures Television since 2005. Under their leadership, the studio’s slate of original primetime series more than tripled, growing to include many of TV’s most acclaimed shows. They have extensive expertise producing television for global audiences and creating programming for a wide range of services including shows for Amazon, Hulu and Netflix. Their incredible roster of programs — which have won 36 Emmys and dozens of Golden Globes, AFI and WGA awards—have included fan favorites such as:​

• Better Call Saul
• The Blacklist
• Bloodline
• Breaking Bad
• The Crown
• Damages
• The Goldbergs
• Justified
• Preacher
• Rescue Me
• The Shield
• Sneaky Pete

These guys know great content when they see it, and they’ve hired a bunch of talented folks to bring it to ATV+. That’s what Cook does: hires great people to execute on Apple’s strategic plans, and then stays the hell out of their way.

Based on their demonstrated skill in identifying compelling projects to develop, and also in producing high-quality, successful content, I expect Apple will have some great stuff. And it doesn’t appear there’s any reason to be worried that Apple is going to get taken advantage of by Hollywood.

Regarding their “hidden/secret intention”, it’s really not all that complicated, and it’s certainly no secret. I already addressed it above in post #225 above

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...d-wanting-apple-to-fail.2212336/post-28010037

PS If you want to have a say in how Apple spends “your money”, I suggest you acquire ownership of at least 0.0001 of the outstanding shares, if you’ve got an extra $100 million or so lying around. In the meantime, enjoy your free Apple TV+

 

[Abazigal]

So honest question here, what are they trying to become? What are their intentions?

The way I see it, TV+ serves 2 key purposes. To establish a curated feed of quality content revolving around compelling storytelling. The other is to use this original content as a carrot to get people to use the TV+ app. This then allows consumers to discover content from other video bundles and Apple can then earn a cut of the revenue generated from these video subscriptions.

This also positions the TV app as the key ingredient to a larger Apple experience, by letting you consolidate your content from multiple streaming services in one place. And the more the TV app gains popularity, the more content providers will be incentivised to support it.

It’s pretty much in line with the values that Apple espouses - human curation, privacy, and good storytelling experience.

 

[delhifox]

Limited time offer isn’t exactly “lawyer talk” but correct, the deal could end at any time.

As an Apple shareholder, you probably realize that Apple management isn’t stupid. In what world do you imagine Apple would go to Hollywood with $5 billion to throw around to creative types by a “project manager”? Do you have any idea how ridiculous and naive that sounds?

Apple knows exactly what they’re doing. They’ve got hundreds of folks working on ATV+ at this point. And you can rest easy, they’re not being led by a project manager—try two long-time Sony presidents. Cook hired them 2.5 years ago, Jamie Erlicht and Zack Van Amburg. From Apple’s press release:

​

Erlicht and Van Amburg have served as presidents of Sony Pictures Television since 2005. Under their leadership, the studio’s slate of original primetime series more than tripled, growing to include many of TV’s most acclaimed shows. They have extensive expertise producing television for global audiences and creating programming for a wide range of services including shows for Amazon, Hulu and Netflix. Their incredible roster of programs — which have won 36 Emmys and dozens of Golden Globes, AFI and WGA awards—have included fan favorites such as:​

• Better Call Saul
• The Blacklist
• Bloodline
• Breaking Bad
• The Crown
• Damages
• The Goldbergs
• Justified
• Preacher
• Rescue Me
• The Shield
• Sneaky Pete

These guys know great content when they see it, and they’ve hired a bunch of talented folks to bring it to ATV+. That’s what Cook does: hires great people to execute on Apple’s strategic plans, and then stays the hell out of their way.

Based on their demonstrated skill in identifying compelling projects to develop, and also in producing high-quality, successful content, I expect Apple will have some great stuff. And it doesn’t appear there’s any reason to be worried that Apple is going to get taken advantage of by Hollywood.

Regarding their “hidden/secret intention”, it’s really not all that complicated, and it’s certainly no secret. I already addressed it above in post #225 above

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...d-wanting-apple-to-fail.2212336/post-28010037

PS If you want to have a say in how Apple spends “your money”, I suggest you acquire ownership of at least 0.0001 of the outstanding shares, if you’ve got an extra $100 million or so lying around. In the meantime, enjoy your free Apple TV+

Dude, you need to check the calendar. Its 2019 not 2011! God knows where do you get your $5B budget, but whatever(don't send me some random non published news *source*)... lets assume your non apple published figure is right.. how does it even compare it with the competition? Sounds like a half ass effort compare to $15B/year budget of Netflix(published numbers)...$26B Disney spent on last year...You really think Apple is even a player compared to them? Yes? in what way? Certainly not on content quality or quantity! Cause they hired two dudes from Sony with some real street credentials? IF thats your argument then, do you have * any* idea of 100s of Jamies and Zacks others have ?? You can see their I have too much money to throw attitude on the street, someone rejected Apple's $500M offer(not a typo)

I don't think Apple's management is stupid, but I think Disney's, ATT, Fox's management are way smarter when it comes to content business... do you know any facts to show otherwise?

BTW you have any idea why greats hires like Angela Ahredhts left Apple?I thought Tim Cook stays hell out of their way...oh wait..it doesn't stop there...Sir Johnny Ive also left apple right?

P.S: You will be surprised how well Apple listens to people who don't own .0001 of their outstanding share...just ask Taylor Swift.

 

[cardfan]

As far as I can tell, initially they’re content to offer more value to those buying into the iPad/iPhone/Mac/AppleTV ecosystem. Five years from now when they have hundreds of titles, it’ll be a legit service that can also generate revenue. Like Arcade, they’re leveraging their installed base of 1.5 billion (upwards of 2 billion by 2025) devices to create a revenue stream.

The slow build can’t be seen as anything other than intentional, since they decided not to license any additional video content to supplement their original content. They could have done that, like Netflix/Amazon/Hulu/HBO/Showtime do.

I understand that. But the majority of phone users aren’t going to sub to a tv service. Take the majority of that 1.5 billion off that leveraging. Arcade and music are different. Apples share of tv streaming boxes (Apple TV) is last place.

Besides 8 shows this year doesn’t equal 100s in 5 years. But I get the feeling apple is winging it, pulling strings. Seeing what might work.

I’d say they’re lucky to have 10-20 million tv subs in 5 years. What content will they have a year from now that would entice me? None from this year. And so the renewals have no interest for me either. We start from scratch again. Given the awful choices in content this year doesn’t bode well

I’d say by year 5 they’re several billion in the hole with this if it’s even a thing by the.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Dude, you need to check the calendar. Its 2019 not 2011! God knows where do you get your $5B budget, but whatever(don't send me some random non published news *source*)... lets assume your non apple published figure is right.. how does it even compare it with the competition? Sounds like a half ass effort compare to $15B/year budget of Netflix(published numbers)...$26B Disney spent on last year...You really think Apple is even a player compared to them? Yes? in what way? Certainly not on content quality or quantity! Cause they hired two dudes from Sony with some real street credentials? IF thats your argument then, do you have * any* idea of 100s of Jamies and Zacks others have ?? You can see their I have too much money to throw attitude on the street, someone rejected Apple's $500M offer(not a typo)

I don't think Apple's management is stupid, but I think Disney's, ATT, Fox's management are way smarter when it comes to content business... do you know any facts to show otherwise?

BTW you have any idea why greats hires like Angela Ahredhts left Apple?I thought Tim Cook stays hell out of their way...oh wait..it doesn't stop there...Sir Johnny Ive also left apple right?

P.S: You will be surprised how well Apple listens to people who don't own .0001 of their outstanding share...just ask Taylor Swift.

Wow it sounds like you’ve really got a handle on this ATV+ thing. Yet still so many questions...

1) Industry reports were that Apple was spending $5 billion, but who knows if that’s right. Could be $20 billion, who knows? But I’m sure Apple appreciates your concern in any case.

2) Apple’s not trying to compete with Disney lol, if they wanted to be Disney, they could just buy them, couldn’t they? Or Comcast or AT&T.

3) Ahrendts was let go for reasons we don’t know. Ive is leaving after 27 years with a quarter billion dollars in his pocket, reportedly so he can do some design work beyond only Apple products.

PS If you had 123 million followers on insta and 85 million on Twitter, I would definitely not be surprised that Cook might very well care what you think, just like he cares what Taylor Swift thinks. Failing that, though, you might want to buy the 0.0001 of Apple’s shares as I suggested, if you really want to have any hope of having a say in how Apple spends “your” money. But it’s no guarantee.

 

[Lalatoon]

As far as I can tell, initially they’re content to offer more value to those buying into the iPad/iPhone/Mac/AppleTV ecosystem. Five years from now when they have hundreds of titles, it’ll be a legit service that can also generate revenue. Like Arcade, they’re leveraging their installed base of 1.5 billion (upwards of 2 billion by 2025) devices to create a revenue stream.

The slow build can’t be seen as anything other than intentional, since they decided not to license any additional video content to supplement their original content. They could have done that, like Netflix/Amazon/Hulu/HBO/Showtime do.

1.5 billion user base and 2 billion by 2025?

According to some statistics that currently there are more than 3 billion smartphone users.
Recently Google published that as of May 2019 there are 2.5 billion active users in Play Store. This does not include AOS devices that doesn't have Goolge Services installed like mine and like the rest of the millions of Android users in China which I believe is about 70% market share. This is also does not include Amazon Fire which doesn't have Play Store installed but I guess their numbers is negligible.

It may not be a precise information but links below gives the general idea about how many iPhone users are there in the world.

https://www.macworld.co.uk/feature/iphone/iphone-vs-android-market-share-3691861/

https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/worldwide

I guess iPhone users is just around 700 millions to 800 millions. Remember number of sales data does not mean new user.

 

[I7guy]

So honest question here, what are they trying to become? What are their intentions?

Apple is a tech company with revenue from hardware sales, services, wearables, financial products and media, which includes news, music, and TV centering around their hardware and ecosystem. Imo.

 

[pete480]

Or the show just really sucks.

 

[Abazigal]

1.5 billion user base and 2 billion by 2025?

According to some statistics that currently there are more than 3 billion smartphone users.
Recently Google published that as of May 2019 there are 2.5 billion active users in Play Store. This does not include AOS devices that doesn't have Goolge Services installed like mine and like the rest of the millions of Android users in China which I believe is about 70% market share. This is also does not include Amazon Fire which doesn't have Play Store installed but I guess their numbers is negligible.

It may not be a precise information but links below gives the general idea about how many iPhone users are there in the world.

https://www.macworld.co.uk/feature/iphone/iphone-vs-android-market-share-3691861/

https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/worldwide

I guess iPhone users is just around 700 millions to 800 millions. Remember number of sales data does not mean new user.

Apple announced 900 million active iPhone users as of Jan this year.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/29/18202736/apple-devices-ios-earnings-q1-2019

It can only have grown as of this time.

 

[archer75]

Why won't you just buy them? like the entire Business? Isn't that would you will do if you are really serious about content business? Isn't that exactly what Disney did with Fox, ATT with Warner media ? cause they were serious about acquiring content... why would do this half ass Microsoft Zune move?

They certainly have the $$ to pull off a $300B M&A(Entire Disney is worth $250-260B)...lets not forget that Disney is a money making machine... so its not a WeWork, Uber business... so the real value is far more than what you will be paying for buy them..

Not if Disney doesn't want to sell. Otherwise it would be a hostile takeover. And perhaps apple doesn't want to run Disney?

 

[Abazigal]

Why won't you just buy them? like the entire Business? Isn't that would you will do if you are really serious about content business? Isn't that exactly what Disney did with Fox, ATT with Warner media ? cause they were serious about acquiring content... why would do this half ass Microsoft Zune move?

As a rule of thumb, Apple doesn't do large-scale acquisitions, especially if it is purely for generating revenue. You also run into all sorts of issues, such as having to work with another company whose values and culture may be completely different from yours.

What Apple tends to do is to shop for smaller companies who possess technology or talent they could then, then acquire them and absorb them into the parent company. They then allow it to scale, which allows for massive economies of scale. In short, Apple shops for new companies the same way you would shop for ingredients at the supermarket. You buy what you believe will let you cook a better-tasting dish. You don't buy over the entire restaurant just to serve you the dish you want to eat.

At the end of the day, Apple isn't turning into a services company. They are releasing their own video streaming service because they see it as an opportunity to add value to the apple ecosystem, and to help push the TV app. As such, there is no reason for them to break the bank trying to acquire Netflix or Disney or go toe-to-toe with them. These services aren't mutually exclusive; people are perfectly capable of subscribing to multiple streaming services, and there is likely room for Apple to carve out a profitable chunk of the pie for themselves based on their portfolio on compelling storytelling. Not to mention that Apple ultimately earns when they sell Disney subscriptions through the TV app anyways.

That's why I suspect so many people get Apple wrong. Their view of the world is basically based on what they see around them most - cost leadership, divisional organisational structure, growth through M&A's, engineering-led. For them, Apple is a puzzle as it is different in every single way and brings them discomfort.

 

[Baymowe335]

Limited time offer isn’t exactly “lawyer talk” but correct, the deal could end at any time.

As an Apple shareholder, you probably realize that Apple management isn’t stupid. In what world do you imagine Apple would go to Hollywood with $5 billion to throw around to creative types by a “project manager”? Do you have any idea how ridiculous and naive that sounds?

Apple knows exactly what they’re doing. They’ve got hundreds of folks working on ATV+ at this point. And you can rest easy, they’re not being led by a project manager—try two long-time Sony presidents. Cook hired them 2.5 years ago, Jamie Erlicht and Zack Van Amburg. From Apple’s press release:

​

Erlicht and Van Amburg have served as presidents of Sony Pictures Television since 2005. Under their leadership, the studio’s slate of original primetime series more than tripled, growing to include many of TV’s most acclaimed shows. They have extensive expertise producing television for global audiences and creating programming for a wide range of services including shows for Amazon, Hulu and Netflix. Their incredible roster of programs — which have won 36 Emmys and dozens of Golden Globes, AFI and WGA awards—have included fan favorites such as:​

• Better Call Saul
• The Blacklist
• Bloodline
• Breaking Bad
• The Crown
• Damages
• The Goldbergs
• Justified
• Preacher
• Rescue Me
• The Shield
• Sneaky Pete

These guys know great content when they see it, and they’ve hired a bunch of talented folks to bring it to ATV+. That’s what Cook does: hires great people to execute on Apple’s strategic plans, and then stays the hell out of their way.

Based on their demonstrated skill in identifying compelling projects to develop, and also in producing high-quality, successful content, I expect Apple will have some great stuff. And it doesn’t appear there’s any reason to be worried that Apple is going to get taken advantage of by Hollywood.

Regarding their “hidden/secret intention”, it’s really not all that complicated, and it’s certainly no secret. I already addressed it above in post #225 above

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...d-wanting-apple-to-fail.2212336/post-28010037

PS If you want to have a say in how Apple spends “your money”, I suggest you acquire ownership of at least 0.0001 of the outstanding shares, if you’ve got an extra $100 million or so lying around. In the meantime, enjoy your free Apple TV+

Such an underrated post that unforuntately very few would actually take the time to read.

Absolutely spot on.

People forget Apple can just buy/license more content...just like others do in this game. Apple can just haul off and acquire HBO, for example. They could literally buy any content they wanted...They could buy all of Disney if they really wanted it!

They also have the talent and money to create content, which has already shown to produce quality programming.

 

[DiceMoney]

On the flip side, maybe a bulk of the audience scores are from Apple fanboys who couldn't bring themselves to say anything negative.

Or Apple paying for good reviews?
I saw some of the first episode, I wasn’t feeling it.
Now a new show that I am liking is the Mandalorian.

 

[iBluetooth]

I have given them all a fair chance. The writing is subpar. Apple TV+ needs to attract great writers and so far they have failed to make it a writers’ haven equal to HBO, AMC, Netflix.

the worst criticism I can give is that Apple TV+ quality is more in step with network TV than cable.

Please tell me what TV shows you think that have "great writing". As this is what really got me watching For All Mankind and the perfection of the details.

 

[return2sendai]

Ya know, I don't doubt that at all tbh.
[automerge]1574258379[/automerge]

When critics say is is bad, but the general population says its great... Maybe it's just the critics.

The argument doesn’t hold. The general population rarely listen to Puccini or read Tennyson. The general population prefer “The Morning Show” to King Lear. Maybe....

 

[confessJason]

Please tell me what TV shows you think that have "great writing". As this is what really got me watching For All Mankind and the perfection of the details.

Fargo, The Wire, Sopranos, Mad Men, The Deuce, Chernobyl, Deadwood, Atlanta, The Night Of, The Boys.

 

[PickUrPoison]

1.5 billion user base and 2 billion by 2025?

According to some statistics that currently there are more than 3 billion smartphone users.
Recently Google published that as of May 2019 there are 2.5 billion active users in Play Store. This does not include AOS devices that doesn't have Goolge Services installed like mine and like the rest of the millions of Android users in China which I believe is about 70% market share. This is also does not include Amazon Fire which doesn't have Play Store installed but I guess their numbers is negligible.

It may not be a precise information but links below gives the general idea about how many iPhone users are there in the world.

https://www.macworld.co.uk/feature/iphone/iphone-vs-android-market-share-3691861/

https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/worldwide

I guess iPhone users is just around 700 millions to 800 millions. Remember number of sales data does not mean new user.

I didn’t say 1.5 billion iPhone users, you misread. I said iPad/iPhone/Mac/AppleTV. As of almost a year ago (Jan 2019) Apple had an active installed base of 900 million iPhones and 1.4 billion devices overall.