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I do not believe that the upside of providing Xcode to those “developers who are standing pat as long as possible, because Apple does not provide a Mac to their liking” offsets the downside of reduced revenue from other developers who are buying Macs. It would be a weird situation for Apple to decide that the answer to the problem of some developers not buying Macs is to port Xcode to Linux. It just doesn’t make any sense.

Explain how you can assure me that there is a version of Xcode for all those platforms?

Personally I think it’s quite unlikely that Apple would spend (/waste) time and money on projects that aren’t specifically part of its platform strategy.

And on the last point, again, I don’t think it makes any sense that Apple would decide that the answer to that problem is to port Xcode to Linux.
Project Builder, the precursor to xcode, ran on windows just fine. The first two version of Xcode originally ran on windows, but did not see the light of day. From version 3 and on, things get a little murkier. The point is, the tools running "mostly" on other platforms is always needed, in order to support potential changes from C-level decision makers. I can see it now - Tim wanting to switch the Apple Lineup to ARM, goes to the Tools team and asks "how long will it take for you to support the move?" only to have the team say - "Sorry three years to rewrite and port everything to ARM." - BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Never. Every decision maker on the Tools team would be fired within a week. For example, Apple's tools were running on intel, LONG before the call to switch from Motorola was made. Yet you are fighting that notion now?

I think the point you are missing is that while developers make up a very small % of people buying Macs, they do ironically make a VERY large % of software that RUNS on Macs/iOS. NOT giving developers what they want, tends to cause these smart folks to seek other solutions - Use older hardware, VM, expand into other avenues.

Apple increasingly looks at ONLY revenue. Look where that has gotten them, in the high end desktop world - once a leader, now a punchline. Portable workstations? now we have the ultralight MBP and it's bag full of dongles. Headless Macs? Nothing. Apple's offerings are appealing to fewer and fewer power users every day. Starbucks users? Apple's still doing OK there, but those over priced pastries do tend to stick in those MBP keys.
 
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I believe you need an actual Thunderbolt connection to use the TB display.

The very similar 27" Cinema display is a different story-it can in fact plug into any mini-DP port.
Absolutely-AFAIK the Apple TB3 to TB2/1 adapter will work for thunderbolt displays but not the original Apple Cinema LED Display (but I imagine if you have a thunderbolt accesory that you can daisy chain off of you will still be able to use them).
 
Project Builder, the precursor to xcode, ran on windows just fine. The first two version of Xcode originally ran on windows, but did not see the light of day. From version 3 and on, things get a little murkier. The point is, the tools running "mostly" on other platforms is always needed, in order to support potential changes from C-level decision makers. I can see it now - Tim wanting to switch the Apple Lineup to ARM, goes to the Tools team and asks "how long will it take for you to support the move?" only to have the team say - "Sorry three years to rewrite and port everything to ARM." - BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Never. Every decision maker on the Tools team would be fired within a week. For example, Apple's tools were running on intel, LONG before the call to switch from Motorola was made. Yet you are fighting that notion now?

I think the point you are missing is that while developers make up a very small % of people buying Macs, they do ironically make a VERY large % of software that RUNS on Macs/iOS. NOT giving developers what they want, tends to cause these smart folks to seek other solutions - Use older hardware, VM, expand into other avenues.

Apple increasingly looks at ONLY revenue. Look where that has gotten them, in the high end desktop world - once a leader, now a punchline. Portable workstations? now we have the ultralight MBP and it's bag full of dongles. Headless Macs? Nothing. Apple's offerings are appealing to fewer and fewer power users every day. Starbucks users? Apple's still doing OK there, but those over priced pastries do tend to stick in those MBP keys.
I see, so your evidence for your definitive statement that “I can assure you that there is some flavor of Xcode running on iOS, linux, windows, intel, AMD and ARM, in the bowels of Cupertino” is that NeXT had Project Builder running on Windows maybe 20 years ago or so, and the first two versions of Xcode ran on Windows some 15 years ago and 13 years ago respectively but you don’t know what happened after that? So, in essence, you have no meaningful evidence for that statement and it’s really just another assumption presented as fact.

And again, I disagree with your statement that ‘the tools running “mostly” on other platforms is always needed, in order to support potential changes from C-level decision makers’. That sounds like a terrible waste of engineering effort, is not how development and engineering teams operate in my experience, and if there is such a disconnect and lack of communication between the engineering teams and the “C-level decision makers” that the engineering teams don’t know what management might do next and feel the need to cover every possible base in order to accommodate their whimsical decision making (and at the cost of taking resource away from the things that management are actively asking them to do now) then their organisation is completely broken. The far more likely situation, in my view, is simply that Apple has its people working on the things it believes are most relevant to its product and platform strategy.

Your example of Tim Cook and ARM is not a realistic one in my view because that’s not the sort of decision that is made overnight, or in a vacuum from the teams that would make it a reality. Again, the far more likely situation in my view is that there would be an ongoing discussion, over months or years, about the opportunity associated with moving to ARM, and to start having the teams prepare that move as part of a deliberate platform strategy. And your example could work both ways - Tim goes to the Tool team and asks how long it will take to implement some new features in Xcode required for some new hardware, and the team says “six months” (or whatever), and then Tim finds out that the team has had resource working on porting and maintaining Xcode for non-Apple platforms and could have done that work in three months instead - that, in my view, is far more likely to get people fired. “Why are you working on this? I didn’t ask you to work on this! We want to be driving our own platforms forward, not under-mining them and actively demonstrating a lack of confidence in them!” Etc.

My understanding of the history around the Intel transition was that it was not originally a deliberate strategy on Apple’s part but the work of a single engineer working on it alone, on his own initiative, working remotely on the east coast. And later it clearly became a deliberate strategy to invest in Intel because of concerns over the ongoing viability of PowerPC. It wasn’t, as you suggest, because Apple were maintaining a variety of ports on an ongoing basis just in case they might be needed.

I’m not missing that point at all - I just don’t understand how it helps Apple to port Xcode to Linux. Again, it feels to me like a weird suggestion for Apple to decide that the answer to the problem of developers not buying Macs is to offer Xcode for Linux. It just doesn’t make any sense as a solution to that problem. The more likely solution is to work to improve the Mac range for pros - which, funnily enough, is exactly what Apple have said they are going to do.
 
loki wrote:
"...only makes sense in case Apple shuts down its Mac/macOS divisions. A highly, highly unlikely scenario."

I don't consider such a thought quite so "unlikely" any more.

Shut it down next year?
Yes, that's unlikely.

Shut it down 7-10 years from now?
As the MacOS and iOS continue to be "merged towards one", it seems that a standalone "MacOS" may indeed become... "unlikely".

There was talk back around 1996-97 or so, to the effect of "how much longer will the Mac OS last?" Back then, of course, folks were talking about the "Classic" Mac OS.
And... six years later... it was... gone, replaced by... OS X.
 
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loki wrote:
"...only makes sense in case Apple shuts down its Mac/macOS divisions. A highly, highly unlikely scenario."

I don't consider such a thought quite so "unlikely" any more.

Shut it down next year?
Yes, that's unlikely.

Shut it down 7-10 years from now?
As the MacOS and iOS continue to be "merged towards one", it seems that a standalone "MacOS" may indeed become... "unlikely".

There was talk back around 1996-97 or so, to the effect of "how much longer will the Mac OS last?" Back then, of course, folks were talking about the "Classic" Mac OS.
And... six years later... it was... gone, replaced by... OS X.
Certainly possible, but it doesn’t automatically follow that Apple will port Xcode (or whatever the contemporary development tool is) to Linux or another OS. It’s more likely, in my view, that they will just continue to provide their development tools on that new merged OS. And in any case, in that example it’s sinply an evolution of Apple’s platforms, not necessarily Apple shutting down the Mac business, which is what people here seem to be afraid of.
 
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it’s sinply an evolution of Apple’s platforms

The Apple aesthetic can bee seen almost everywhere and we are the "better" for it - just today the New York Times is previewing their new "Home" page which has that "Apple" look and tag-line to it - why is that? Most movies that prominently display laptops use Apple laptops - again, why is that?

It would be foolish for Apple "ever" to abandon - instead they must always lead this is what they have always done - we may not like the direction but at all cost it must appear that Apple is taking us somewhere ... the lack of mention, updates, the stall of the MacPro and their acknowledgement and the obvious inferences and tilt in their advertising is what's troubling - they need to deliver that direction at some point in the believable manner that they have always done in the past.

Not through absence - instead through confirmation.

Instead of inferring the PC is dead - prove it and show me why I don't need a headless anymore - make me cringe in my out-dated ways. The Mini has been the longest and best computer investment in my Apple experience.
 
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New NEWS BREAKING:


https://9to5mac.com/2018/08/20/bloomberg-mac-mini-update-details/?pushup=1

Bloomberg:
Apple is also planning the first upgrade to the Mac mini in about four years. It’s a Mac desktop that doesn’t include a screen, keyboard, or mouse in the box and costs $500. The computer has been favored because of its lower price, and it’s popular with app developers, those running home media centers, and server farm managers. For this year’s model, Apple is focusing primarily on these pro users, and new storage and processor options are likely to make it more expensive than previous versions, the people said.

Direct Source: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...=socialflow-twitter-tictoc&utm_content=tictoc
 
Most likely on the real ... the proposal "Upgradeable to dGPU" will be upgradable GPU via eGPU.

Yeah, few people on our Google Hangout have been saying the same thing, and at first, I was like ffs, but then given my setup an eGPU would mean I can use it on multiple devices without needing to worry about dGPU. Swings and roundabouts.
 
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New form factor
4/8 Coffee lake
Up to 32GB Ram
Up to 1TB SSD
Upgradeable to dGPU

More confident this is where it is going. But the price tag will be $1k+ for a decent spec.
Maybe. But if they are going to the "entry pro" or "pro" user that the article indicates . . and if they are going to stick with Intel, my guess is that they will base it on the modern six core parts from Intel. Basically the innards of a current Macbook Pro (and what should be innards of a 2018 iMac).

If they were going with regular/normal/end-user, I would have guessed they would go in the other direction and go fanless.

We'll see. But the article also indicates a higher starting price . . . which I am fine with. $500 is great and all, but a spinning disk, 4GB ram, and old TB2 ports really is not what I am looking for. A $999 price with reasonably good starting internals would be fine.
 
New form factor
4/8 Coffee lake
Up to 32GB Ram
Up to 1TB SSD
Upgradeable to dGPU

More confident this is where it is going. But the price tag will be $1k+ for a decent spec.

Up to 1tb ssd seems a tad low. How can you have 32gb ram but cap the ssd at 1tb? Hoping for 2tb at least :/
 
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A $999 price with reasonably good starting internals would be fine.

Honestly, they don't want to make this a superior option to an iMac. Base price under $999 I am guessing a 4/8 CPU, with modest other specs, no dGPU. You want 6/12 as a minimum they are going to make the price hurt.
 
Honestly, they don't want to make this a superior option to an iMac. Base price under $999 I am guessing a 4/8 CPU, with modest other specs, no dGPU. You want 6/12 as a minimum they are going to make the price hurt.
Up to 1tb ssd seems a tad low. How can you have 32gb ram but cap the ssd at 1tb? Hoping for 2tb at least :/

If they can do 2TB in a 13" and 4TB in a 15", I would think a 2TB option is a safe bet.

On the base price and specs, you may be correct. I am just assuming we will see an updated iMac at the same time with the 15" innards as options. So, as they did with the laptops, all 13" get a quad core and all 15" get a six core, and that they would want to make this "pro" Mac mini at least in the neighborhood of a 15". But I am just guessing, of course.
 
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SSD prices are due for a drop this year; overproduction.

Presumably the "pro" designation means I'll be able to get down to the metal as with the 6502 and 68K?
Maybe even toggle i/o bits manually? They've built up so much fancy garbage around their boards and ports that it is a major PITA to hook up custom hardware anymore.
Do they intend to open up a few more of their "private" API's? Writing workarounds for those is often enough to cripple interesting new projects. "You can use it at home, but don't you dare try to sell" can be quite irritating.

Of course the phone market is maturing, so maybe they have to put out something exciting on another front.
I'm skeptical until I see it. This new iOS emulation in MacOS stuff worries me. We could be in for a further round of dumbing down, where a "pro" is someone who occasionally slips into "Terminal". Apple has never retreated on its pledge to try to eliminate user facing file systems. Maybe they've finally figured that out for everyone.
 
A pro-focused Mini. This might be interesting. Strongly implies that they are going to include eGPU capability (i.e. at least TB3 connectivity).

Wonder if they are just going to extend the upper end of the range for the Mini, or actually dump the lower end and shift the whole range upwards?

I have no objection to them continuing to offer a fairly basic lower end model, as long as they offer decent higher end options too.

As I have said before, Apple have a real chance here to make a major boost across the Mac range and leapfrog to the front of the market. They have the knowledge, the skill, and the cash to do it.

The small but relatively powerful headless segment of the market is an exciting place to be right now.

I approve. :cool:
 
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If expensive, wait to see that they've done it right before proceeding.
It does sound as if someone got through with the "no decent Macs, no iPhone Apps" argument though.
No one wants to write bleeding edge on an antique.
Apple might even consider the Mini worth subsidizing, so iOS App store can stay on top.
Phones are about at top of game.
The coolness of Apps will determine iOS vs Android ecosystem dominance
Of course, the Chinese will cause trouble.
 
A pro-focused Mini. This might be interesting.

I have no objection to them continuing to offer a fairly basic lower end model, as long as they offer decent higher end options too.
So pleasing to see this concession to the plebs of this world; might even include a HDD model in the lineup... However, those with somewhat patrician pretensions might find such an idea somewhat objectionable.
 
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Yeah, few people on our Google Hangout have been saying the same thing, and at first, I was like ffs, but then given my setup an eGPU would mean I can use it on multiple devices without needing to worry about dGPU. Swings and roundabouts.

That’s the main idea. Also upgrade just the GPU for 2yrs minimum and your laptop, Mac Mini, and iMac - if in the same desk all get power upgrades.

In time we may see very powerful eGPUs that are much more portable yet can still charge 15” MBP ~ big guess here.
 
The Apple aesthetic can bee seen almost everywhere and we are the "better" for it - just today the New York Times is previewing their new "Home" page which has that "Apple" look and tag-line to it - why is that? Most movies that prominently display laptops use Apple laptops - again, why is that?

It would be foolish for Apple "ever" to abandon - instead they must always lead this is what they have always done - we may not like the direction but at all cost it must appear that Apple is taking us somewhere ... the lack of mention, updates, the stall of the MacPro and their acknowledgement and the obvious inferences and tilt in their advertising is what's troubling - they need to deliver that direction at some point in the believable manner that they have always done in the past.

Not through absence - instead through confirmation.

Instead of inferring the PC is dead - prove it and show me why I don't need a headless anymore - make me cringe in my out-dated ways. The Mini has been the longest and best computer investment in my Apple experience.

You mean the Steve Jobs aesthitic can be seen everywhere.
 
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