The new Mac mini is almost certainly coming

[jasnw]

In any case, Apple will be just fine.

From a shareholder's view, they will do just fine indeed, however I don't think Apple has seen all of the departures it could well see if they are abandoning the sub-Pro headless desktop line. Leaving an OS for another, even if it's one you've worked on before, is not something done lightly, and I think (can't prove) there are a lot of folks that are hanging in there to give Apple one more shot at redemption. Will this be a huge loss of revenue, probably not. It will be a big loss of goodwill in the computer user community that uses computers as tools to get other things done. Again, Apple may just no longer care about serving this particular community. From a purely business, Harvard Business School, point of view this is just one of those sharp business practices - cut out non-profitable lines to maximize $$$-in-pocket. However, it just continues the trend of Apple leadership cutting out the spiritual guts of the company that was once Apple Computers. I happen to think that's not "just fine."

 

[sublunar]

From a shareholder's view, they will do just fine indeed, however I don't think Apple has seen all of the departures it could well see if they are abandoning the sub-Pro headless desktop line. Leaving an OS for another, even if it's one you've worked on before, is not something done lightly, and I think (can't prove) there are a lot of folks that are hanging in there to give Apple one more shot at redemption. Will this be a huge loss of revenue, probably not. It will be a big loss of goodwill in the computer user community that uses computers as tools to get other things done. Again, Apple may just no longer care about serving this particular community. From a purely business, Harvard Business School, point of view this is just one of those sharp business practices - cut out non-profitable lines to maximize $$$-in-pocket. However, it just continues the trend of Apple leadership cutting out the spiritual guts of the company that was once Apple Computers. I happen to thing that's not "just fine."

If you look at most of the line-up the average selling price must have gone up for a variety of reasons - notwithstanding the general price increase in Europe due to the exchange rate in 2016:

Factual:
1. Pro laptops had touch bar and touch ID (and T1/T2 processor) added.
2. The top end iMac Pro has arrived.
3. iPhone SE is gone - low end now starts at $449 (iPhone 7 32Gb) up from $349.
4. New iPhones get progressively more expensive

Speculative:
5. iMacs could get more expensive if they adopt the T2 CPU and potentially lock in RAM on the 27" model
6. Mac Mini may be getting price increase too if the T2 is being added there and if Apple have decided to go for profit rather than a lower end price point.
7. 2019 Mac Pro may well increase in price thanks to the almost certain adoption of the T2 and potentially higher base specs seen in the iMac Pro

It remains to be seen if the iPad Pros or non-pro laptops (expected to be out next month) will increase their own average selling price but I would say that one way of doing so for the MacBook line is to introduce a 15" model without the touch bar.

 

[PickUrPoison]

From a shareholder's view, they will do just fine indeed, however I don't think Apple has seen all of the departures it could well see if they are abandoning the sub-Pro headless desktop line. Leaving an OS for another, even if it's one you've worked on before, is not something done lightly, and I think (can't prove) there are a lot of folks that are hanging in there to give Apple one more shot at redemption. Will this be a huge loss of revenue, probably not. It will be a big loss of goodwill in the computer user community that uses computers as tools to get other things done. Again, Apple may just no longer care about serving this particular community. From a purely business, Harvard Business School, point of view this is just one of those sharp business practices - cut out non-profitable lines to maximize $$$-in-pocket. However, it just continues the trend of Apple leadership cutting out the spiritual guts of the company that was once Apple Computers. I happen to thing that's not "just fine."

Well I think that’s really the essence of my differing viewpoint. I don’t see the mini as any part of the “spiritual guts” of Apple. I’ll worry if the iMac lineup gets discontinued.

But I think it’s a moot point since the oft-reliable leak publishers—including the guy who knew last November there would be two OLED models of sizes 5.8” and 6.5” as well as a 6.1” LCD model, and the guy who nailed the iPhone names—are both saying a new mini will be with us soon.

I really am excited to see what Apple has in store for us. But if the new refreshed model doesn’t sell, I won’t be at all surprised if this is the mini’s last gasp. I don’t expect Apple to continue making the mini forever, if the preference for iMacs and notebooks completely marginalizes it.

 

[sublunar]

Well I think that’s really the essence of my differing viewpoint. I don’t see the mini as any part of the “spiritual guts” of Apple. I’ll worry if the iMac lineup gets discontinued.

But I think it’s a moot point since the oft-reliable leak publishers—including the guy who knew last November there would be two OLED models of sizes 5.8” and 6.5” as well as a 6.1” LCD model, and the guy who nailed the iPhone names—are both saying a new mini will be with us soon.

I really am excited to see what Apple has in store for us. But if the new refreshed model doesn’t sell, I won’t be at all surprised if this is the mini’s last gasp. I don’t expect Apple to continue making the mini forever, if the preference for iMacs and notebooks completely marginalizes it.

Apple's a business so you can't expect them to keep catering for a minority but they have to take some responsibility in the targeting of their headless Macs. They are aiming at more profitable buyers and I think that the strategy for the 2019 Mac Pro is a part of this - in terms of price point if nothing else. The iMac Pro is priced to sell with a generous base spec (32Gb RAM, 1Tb SSD) and it's easy to imagine the modular Mac Pro for 2019 being specified similarly.

Before we even start considering a variety of Xeon CPUs and other features they may put in it would be easy to imagine the poverty spec base 2013 Mac Pro not even close to fitting the profile of the 2019 Mac Pro buyer. I would argue that next year's Mac Pro has to come with the same base RAM and storage as the iMac Pro and that will raise the average selling price immediately.

That leaves a huge pricing hole below the 2019 Mac Pro which could be filled by a 'Mini' for want of a better name which comes in a more generously specified form.

If the 2018 Mini is worth buying by the kind of people who will bring the average selling price up, then it'll get bought and by the kind of professionals and prosumers that have been making arguments against the shortcomings of the 2014 Mini for years. If not, then - as with the 2019 Pro - there has to be a sense of finality about the fate of the headless Mac line if Apple can't aim the product at a profitable audience.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Apple's a business so you can't expect them to keep catering for a minority but they have to take some responsibility in the targeting of their headless Macs. They are aiming at more profitable buyers and I think that the strategy for the 2019 Mac Pro is a part of this - in terms of price point if nothing else. The iMac Pro is priced to sell with a generous base spec (32Gb RAM, 1Tb SSD) and it's easy to imagine the modular Mac Pro for 2019 being specified similarly.

Before we even start considering a variety of Xeon CPUs and other features they may put in it would be easy to imagine the poverty spec base 2013 Mac Pro not even close to fitting the profile of the 2019 Mac Pro buyer. I would argue that next year's Mac Pro has to come with the same base RAM and storage as the iMac Pro and that will raise the average selling price immediately.

That leaves a huge pricing hole below the 2019 Mac Pro which could be filled by a 'Mini' for want of a better name which comes in a more generously specified form.

If the 2018 Mini is worth buying by the kind of people who will bring the average selling price up, then it'll get bought and by the kind of professionals and prosumers that have been making arguments against the shortcomings of the 2014 Mini for years. If not, then - as with the 2019 Pro - there has to be a sense of finality about the fate of the headless Mac line if Apple can't aim the product at a profitable audience.

That’s really the problem with the mini. Who is it for? It’s basically MBP or maybe iMac specs without the monitor, mic, speakers and camera (plus keyboard/trackpad for the MBP).

It has almost nothing in common with the iMac Pro or Mac Pro, and almost zero crossover use cases. No one says, well I really need a Mac Pro, but I can’t quite afford it so I’ll buy a tricked out mini.

I’m sure they’ve got the audience in mind, and we’ll see the appropriate hardware that’s aimed to please them. It’s certainly not switchers, that we know.

btw I don’t think the entry level Mac Pro will be much different from 3,500-4,000. But the upper limit may surprise.

 

[Cape Dave]

If you look at most of the line-up the average selling price must have gone up for a variety of reasons - notwithstanding the general price increase in Europe due to the exchange rate in 2016:

Factual:
1. Pro laptops had touch bar and touch ID (and T1/T2 processor) added.
2. The top end iMac Pro has arrived.
3. iPhone SE is gone - low end now starts at $449 (iPhone 7 32Gb) up from $349.
4. New iPhones get progressively more expensive

Speculative:
5. iMacs could get more expensive if they adopt the T2 CPU and potentially lock in RAM on the 27" model
6. Mac Mini may be getting price increase too if the T2 is being added there and if Apple have decided to go for profit rather than a lower end price point.
7. 2019 Mac Pro may well increase in price thanks to the almost certain adoption of the T2 and potentially higher base specs seen in the iMac Pro

It remains to be seen if the iPad Pros or non-pro laptops (expected to be out next month) will increase their own average selling price but I would say that one way of doing so for the MacBook line is to introduce a 15" model without the touch bar.

I abhor the touch bar. And face recognition. There. I said it. F keys and fingerprints work just fine.

 

[masterbaron]

I don’t see the mini as any part of the “spiritual guts” of Apple.

A computer is a tool - if you go to Home Depot you will see "cordless" and "corded" drills. You buy the tool that fits the job you're doing and if necessary you include any visions of the future. There will always be corded drills because there are jobs that require them (torque and jobs where a low/drained battery don't work) - similarly there are times you must plug your phone in to avoid shutdown and situations that won't allow that.

The "spiritual guts" can be considered as the infrastructure that supports computing and the "spin" of each OS - in which case providing the full set of tools to get the job done is crucial to any successful hardware manufacturer.

Further, there's a ton of applications where the Mini is the right choice and certainly there's no
"one size fits all".

"Spiritual guts" - very catchy but there's very little spirit associated with 1's and 0's and profit - I do see a correlation to "fashionable - trendy - fickle".

 

[masterbaron]

The MacPro being redesigned as "modular" and the Mini readdress to "pro-sumer" are all good indications that something will happen - to what degree they invest in a less than "glossy" segment of the market is questionable especially if they feel they can't disrupt or stimulate the market in ways that skew the prevalence of Windows.

 

[DevNull0]

i never mention SSD issue . For me, it better have more RAM instead of SSD. SSD is nice but i still said " if no caching spotlight, we no need much ssd speed".

Wow...that's what you took from that.

I just don't know what to say if everything is being twisted out of context and everything on point is totally ignored for one irreverent side comment.

 

[RumorConsumer]

Omg this thread. 557 pages!

 

[alien3dx]

Wow...that's what you took from that.

I just don't know what to say if everything is being twisted out of context and everything on point is totally ignored for one irreverent side comment.

haha. At least you should said ..the fastest disk is ram disk. Yes, i'm using it also in imac. Better to allocate the speed to something usefull

 

[Miat]

If Apple continues to show they have no plans for headless desktop systems other than an under-powered sealed-box Mini and an overpriced overheated Pro I think they're going to start losing a lot of people...

If they want to drop the Mini and put in a mid-range headless Mac with user-upgradable options, that's fine with many of us. But having only a Pro headless system would make Macs a non-option for a lot of people.

Including me.

No quad Mini or equivalent? Then I am off to Linux land for my desktop. If I am paying Apple tax then I expect to get something pretty close to what I want.

I'm feeling hopeful today, and we will end up with 3 headless Macs.

1. Mac Pro. 4 accessible RAM slots. 4 accessible NVMe slots for SSD drives. 2 accessible PCIe slots for video cards.
2. Mac Mini. 2 accessible RAM slots. 2 accessible NVMe slots for SSD drives. Shrunken Pro styling.
3. Mac Nano. Nothing accessible. A pocketable computer that takes advantage of every size reduction possible with a fanless sealed unit. It can use any monitor, TV, or iPad as a screen for reasonable portability.

One possibility is to also differentiate via number of CPU cores (i.e. dual v. quad, or even hex). Make a low end Mini ('Nano') dual core only, entry-level machine, that has a build incompatible with a quad core mid-range Mini, so there is no possibility of swapping parts (except maybe drives and RAM). Thus forcing customers to upgrade in one big step and pay their Apple tax.

It wouldn't be expensive to do this, just a few tweaks in basic physical dimensions of the internals would cover it.

I abhor the touch bar.

Me too. As an optional extra? Fine. I am sure some find it useful. But no choice about it? Pass.

The MacPro being redesigned as "modular" and the Mini readdress to "pro-sumer" are all good indications that something will happen

As I have said before, Apple have a real chance here to revamp the whole headless range into something much more powerful, integrated, and competitive. They have all the resources they need – knowledge, experience, market access, spare cash, etc. A solid package that covers the bases could see them leapfrog to the front of this market.

 

[Michael Scrip]

As I have said before, Apple have a real chance here to revamp the whole headless range into something much more powerful, integrated, and competitive. They have all the resources they need – knowledge, experience, market access, spare cash, etc. A solid package that covers the bases could see them leapfrog to the front of this market.

Agreed.

It's funny when a company like Apple with a ZILLION dollars in the bank fails to update 2 of their 4 computer lines...

And yet every other "mortal" company can update frequently... sometimes twice a year...

 

[alien3dx]

Agreed.

It's funny when a company like Apple with a ZILLION dollars in the bank fails to update 2 of their 4 computer lines...

And yet every other "mortal" company can update frequently... sometimes twice a year...

Is basic cycle, but the cycle now like "Nokia Next" second stage , The first stage upon removal of steve job. The comeback upon steve job. But now.. My first experince in apple in 199X maybe .. "PRINCE OF PERSIA"....macintosh .

 

[toke lahti]

Agreed.

It's funny when a company like Apple with a ZILLION dollars in the bank fails to update 2 of their 4 computer lines...

And yet every other "mortal" company can update frequently... sometimes twice a year...

They don’t do it, because they want. They need to do it, to stay competitive.
Eg. intel. They have the power to prolong the upgrades for a year or two, when the market is favorable to them.
Macs mean almost nothing to Apple. A balance between legacy burden and small profits.
That’s why it would be best fot Macs to let them be their own company, who could do decisions based on macs need, not iOS or some new gadget or service.

 

[toke lahti]

No - the contacts are "pins" much like a brad with wire attached to the other side - thus the brad penetrates the plastic housing like a nail with wire the other side. The pins are inserted into the housing and casual liquid will not breach them - under pressure (depth) it will.

Jacks have "Moving parts" (contacts) which are simply strips of metal that rest up against the jack when inserted.

Those metal strips on the male lightning plug make contact with the head of the pins when inserted - the head of the pin provides closure keeping liquid away from the body of the pin which leads to the inside of the phone. If there's no head on the pin then the pins were inserted with force, "hot" or milled to high tolerance to mate with the housing accomplishing much of what a head would do.

You don’t happen to have a picture of that female socket? Wirediagram, which shows the machanism?
I still can’t picture it right. There, no moving parts, but nails that make a connect, when male plug is inserted, are nor exposed to water to cause short circuit?
Also, how ease would it be to make similar mechanism to 3.5mm socket?

 

[alien3dx]

They don’t do it, because they want. They need to do it, to stay competitive.
Eg. intel. They have the power to prolong the upgrades for a year or two, when the market is favorable to them.
Macs mean almost nothing to Apple. A balance between legacy burden and small profits.
That’s why it would be best fot Macs to let them be their own company, who could do decisions based on macs need, not iOS or some new gadget or service.

change to NUMBER (alphabet taken by google)

 

[Boyd01]

No one says, well I really need a Mac Pro, but I can’t quite afford it so I’ll buy a tricked out mini.

Actually that pretty much why I got a 2012 quad mini, although were other factors in the decision of course. I use it exclusively for video/audio editing. And I might do the same thing again, if Apple comes up with something compelling.

 

[masterbaron]

A solid package that covers the bases could see them leapfrog to the front of this market.

In front of the market that's diminishing - and companies after initial development and market uptake do start to look at business holistically in this case the stockholders see diminishing profit and Apple responds with less emphasis. I doubt the desktop category will ever return to prominence - things are at a lull until the next "big" thing and mobility seems to be the focus for this generation of users.
[doublepost=1537274005][/doublepost]

Also, how ease would it be to make similar mechanism to 3.5mm socket?

Very easy but the length of the mini jack takes valuable space and would impact overall dimensions - the lightning port is more than likely directly attached to a board with no wires utilizing less space than a mini jack - simple space constraints.
A short in the mini jack apparently is isolated from power feeds that would destroy the phone - once dried out it's fine but the water reaching any chip or power lanes will fry your unit.

Simply Google 3.5mm Mini jack and it will be clear.

 

[Miat]

I doubt the desktop category will ever return to prominence

I don't doubt that desktops have less market share then in the past, but they are here to stay for the foreseeable future.

Mobile devices are never going to have the power of a same generation stationary device.

 

[masterbaron]

Power has many shades ... in many ways a smartphone is more powerful (i.e. "power per cu. cm) - in a smartphone more is happening in a smaller space than a desktop - the power vs size.

The root issue to technological advancement is power - if man is going anywhere in the future this constraint must be solved, and it will be, and one day device size will not define its power or ability to remain powered.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Actually that pretty much why I got a 2012 quad mini, although were other factors in the decision of course. I use it exclusively for video/audio editing. And I might do the same thing again, if Apple comes up with something compelling.

That’s awesome, but then you never really needed the Mac Pro did you? The Mac Pro is targeted at those whose computers are used as a workhorse, for whom time is money.

If you were billing $50-100/hr, that Pro would have paid for itself in the first month or two with time saved over the much slower mini.

 

[Boyd01]

Sure, I'm retired now. But I think the 2012 quad mini server was a popular machine for video in its day. The geekbench rating was comparable to other high end Macs back then. We'll see how the new models stack up soon (if ever).

 

[Zdigital2015]

Including me.

No quad Mini or equivalent? Then I am off to Linux land for my desktop. If I am paying Apple tax then I expect to get something pretty close to what I want.


One possibility is to also differentiate via number of CPU cores (i.e. dual v. quad, or even hex). Make a low end Mini ('Nano') dual core only, entry-level machine, that has a build incompatible with a quad core mid-range Mini, so there is no possibility of swapping parts (except maybe drives and RAM). Thus forcing customers to upgrade in one big step and pay their Apple tax.

It wouldn't be expensive to do this, just a few tweaks in basic physical dimensions of the internals would cover it.


Me too. As an optional extra? Fine. I am sure some find it useful. But no choice about it? Pass.


As I have said before, Apple have a real chance here to revamp the whole headless range into something much more powerful, integrated, and competitive. They have all the resources they need – knowledge, experience, market access, spare cash, etc. A solid package that covers the bases could see them leapfrog to the front of this market.

Leapfrog to the front of a market that has had YoY declines in sales since 2012? This market? Unfortunately, this is not the growth segment of the computing economy and although Apple does need to pay some attention to refreshing at least the Mac Pro and MacBook (Air) as those are both key segments for two entirely different reasons, I think you may want to go ahead and spec out that Linux desktop right now, so that you are ready to go when the inevitable does happens.

Apple's growth markets are iPhone, Watch and Services now and that is where they are going to concentrate the vast majority their engineering, marketing and sales efforts for the foreseeable future.

If the last four to five years, the neglect of the mini, Mac Pro and MacBook Air have shown us anything, it is that this version of Apple will keep its toes in the PC market only to the extent that it does not compromise the aforementioned engineering, marketing and sales resources in those three key growth markets. Even the AppleTV, Home Pod and Beats seem to be castaways right now. Granted, the AppleTV is a fairly complete product at this stage of its life, just a few years ago, there were rumors upon rumors that Apple had much higher aspirations for this business. The car (Titan) seems to be about as far away as its namesake moon.

I fear that our October reality may be a lot less rosy than we would all hope. Just my 2¢.

 

[sublunar]

Leapfrog to the front of a market that has had YoY declines in sales since 2012? This market? Unfortunately, this is not the growth segment of the computing economy and although Apple does need to pay some attention to refreshing at least the Mac Pro and MacBook (Air) as those are both key segments for two entirely different reasons, I think you may want to go ahead and spec out that Linux desktop right now, so that you are ready to go when the inevitable does happens.

Apple's growth markets are iPhone, Watch and Services now and that is where they are going to concentrate the vast majority their engineering, marketing and sales efforts for the foreseeable future.

If the last four to five years, the neglect of the mini, Mac Pro and MacBook Air have shown us anything, it is that this version of Apple will keep its toes in the PC market only to the extent that it does not compromise the aforementioned engineering, marketing and sales resources in those three key growth markets. Even the AppleTV, Home Pod and Beats seem to be castaways right now. Granted, the AppleTV is a fairly complete product at this stage of its life, just a few years ago, there were rumors upon rumors that Apple had much higher aspirations for this business. The car (Titan) seems to be about as far away as its namesake moon.

I fear that our October reality may be a lot less rosy than we would all hope. Just my 2¢.

AppleTV and Home Pod don't appear to be home runs technologically, but the software and content side of things is more important in this case. There isn't a compelling argument for buying one of these while Apple continues to take baby steps in the world of buying in TV shows and lets Siri languish having long relinquished its technological lead due to a relative lack of investment. They can't even claim to be the best but priced too high for one pockets as per iPhone.

Services are also increasingly important to Apple but iCloud has a fight on up against Office 365 which includes 1Tb of storage plus industry standard software while the basic allocation of storage is severely stingy.