Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

The new Mac mini is almost certainly coming

EugW said:
While testing the MacBook Neo in-store with some applications in the background, I occasionally noticed some lag even just navigating around macOS. That's what you get with 8 GB RAM. When I do the same thing on my wife's M4 Air with 16 GB RAM, I don't notice that lag.
Click to expand...

Sounds like the benefits of having surplus RAM for file caching.

I've got a 32GB Mac Studio. I'm not doing anything at this moment that deserves more than 8GB, but MacOS is still - "using" 16GB of memory plus 15GB of file cache (so, most of that 32GB is getting used). So I guess it's just very rarely having to touch the SSD. Even Apple super-fast SSDs are still an order of magnitude slower than RAM.

Basically, the car with the 1100cc engine will still let you break the speed limit all the way to the shops and back, but the 2000cc model will pull away from the lights just that little bit more smartly and smoothly - if you have the cash to splash... if you need to tow a trailer that's a whole different calculation. 🙂
 
  • Like
Reactions: polyphenol and DesertSurfer
theluggage said:
Sounds like the benefits of having surplus RAM for file caching.

I've got a 32GB Mac Studio. I'm not doing anything at this moment that deserves more than 8GB, but MacOS is still - "using" 16GB of memory plus 15GB of file cache (so, most of that 32GB is getting used). So I guess it's just very rarely having to touch the SSD. Even Apple super-fast SSDs are still an order of magnitude slower than RAM.
Click to expand...
I have seen this comparison many times in the past, but I don't think it's really an equivalent situation.

I know that a fair number of people with 32 GB Macs tend to load up a ton of applications and never close them, leading to fairly significant swap file sizes, yet don't encounter a lot of lag. However, that is not the same thing as a 8 GB Mac loading up even just a few applications. Out of that 8 GB, a fair chunk of it is necessary just for macOS and its housekeeping, so that you have to actually make use of that swap on an ongoing basis even if you're just running two or three applications. With a 32 GB machine, you can happily run those two or three applications in active RAM, while leaving all the unused background applications in swap.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Populus
EugW said:
Out of that 8 GB, a fair chunk of it is necessary just for macOS and its housekeeping, so that you have to actually make use of that swap on an ongoing basis even if you're just running two or three applications.
Click to expand...
Well, yes, that's what swap is there for.

It comes down to type of workflow - and whether they're actually doing work in the background or just switching between apps.

A bit of swapping-induced lag every time you flip focus between Safari, Pages and Mail isn't necessarily an issue. You're not intereacting with more than one at a time.

If you want to be rendering or compressing video in the background while also trying to edit graphics in the foreground (probably both heavily multithreaded jobs) then you're either getting laggy editing, slowing down the rendering or both.

That's why 8GB in a $600 Neo is probably OK for its intended "personal productivity" market, but (until about 18 months ago) 8GB in a $1600 MacBook Pro (+ really expensive upgrades) - which people might reasonably expect to be capable of more serious work - not so much. The base Mini is in a bit of a no-mans-land - I think anybody looking at a desk top is likely to have slightly more ambitious needs than "personal productivity" - and the M4 is over-powered for that anyway & quite capable of multi-threaded loads, so the M4 Mini range seems to be mainly about knobbling the lower-end versions with limited RAM and storage.

I mean... none of Apple's RAM specs are exactly generous and the correct amount of RAM is "more than you're likely to need". Before the current AI Tulip Madness completely overwhelmed the good old Reality Distortion Field, RAM simply wasn't an expensive scarcity outside of Apple. If I was speccing out a PC, Linux or Hackintosh (RIP) it would have been false economy to put less than 32GB in anything but the most basic of systems. Not with current prices, though - so I doubt that Apple will be fixing their RAM prices this year.
 
8GB of RAM seems like way too little for a modern SoC, especially one that uses the same pool of RAM for both the CPU and the GPU; Apple needs to have all laptops/desktops utilize a minimum of 16GB RAM...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cape Dave
Corefile said:
Will Apple upgrade the M5 Mini to only have 8GB of RAM like the Neo?
Click to expand...
Only if they "upgrade" it to an A18 pro processor... 🙂 Some people have been asking for a "Mac Mini Neo"... I don't think it's likely.

Populus said:
Obviously the 8GB of RAM situation is now limited to the Neo, and only until they start using the A19 Pro, when 12GB will be the bare minimum.
Click to expand...

Except for the whole stupid AI Tulip Boom fisaco pushing up RAM prices to silly levels. I suspect that part of the deal with the Neo is it's using iPhone-sized RAM chips for which Apple have massive buying clout.

Even Apple's BTO RAM upgrade prices are looking slightly less ridiculous than a year ago. So far, Apple has eaten the increased cost (or still has contracts at the old price) - which you can do when you start with a 3x-over-retail mark-up - but I'd be braced for either a price rise of a drop to 8GB.
 
theluggage said:
Except for the whole stupid AI Tulip Boom fisaco pushing up RAM prices to silly levels. I suspect that part of the deal with the Neo is it's using iPhone-sized RAM chips for which Apple have massive buying clout.
Click to expand...

No. It is using A17 Pro sized RAM that it was validated for in the first place. They are not trying to 'change' the part. They are trying to get greater economies of scale with the part they already designed and validated. Just different software layered on top (and maybe a vary marginal change in boot firmware. The lower level boot process is iPhone based across the board. ).

'Buying clout' isn't going to do much when there is hardly any extra capacity. It is more like musical chairs and Apple has a bigger rear end to sit down and bump other folks off of a chair if there is a contest. Also the upfront money to keep slots. OpenAI bought almost anything that wasn't tied down whether they had a device for it to go into or not. It is 'manufactured' scarcity.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Populus
My next Mac Mini after M4 will be a base model with 24+ GB of RAM, whatever M* it's going to be. One may notice that there are custom models for that, but they are much more expensive than base ones and unaffordable for me.
 
theluggage said:
Even Apple's BTO RAM upgrade prices are looking slightly less ridiculous than a year ago. So far, Apple has eaten the increased cost (or still has contracts at the old price) - which you can do when you start with a 3x-over-retail mark-up - but I'd be braced for either a price rise of a drop to 8GB.
Click to expand...
Yeah, deep down I have the same fear, that the M5 will be the last gen prior to a generalized price increase, with more expensive RAM upgrades, for the M6 gen and upwards.

RAM and storage general market prices are staying high for a long time, as AI companies are already making long term deals until the end of the decade for memory. So I feel like, with the M5 Mac mini, it’s like a now or never situation.

I’ll try to spec it up to my long term needs, probably a regular M5 with SSD upgraded to 1TB and RAM to 32GB. The alternative is an M5 Pro with 48GB of RAM but that is a bit out of my budget, and I’m still not sure if I’ll get the most of it with local LLMs… Also, the M5 gen runs hotter, so I feel safer with the regular 10c/10c M5 SoC.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cape Dave
Populus said:
Yeah, deep down I have the same fear, that the M5 will be the last gen prior to a generalized price increase, with more expensive RAM upgrades, for the M6 gen and upwards.

RAM and storage general market prices are staying high for a long time, as AI companies are already making long term deals until the end of the decade for memory. So I feel like, with the M5 Mac mini, it’s like a now or never situation.

I’ll try to spec it up to my long term needs, probably a regular M5 with SSD upgraded to 1TB and RAM to 32GB. The alternative is an M5 Pro with 48GB of RAM but that is a bit out of my budget, and I’m still not sure if I’ll get the most of it with local LLMs… Also, the M5 gen runs hotter, so I feel safer with the regular 10c/10c M5 SoC.
Click to expand...
M5 is already rumored to start at 512gb instead of 256gb with a 100 dollar increase.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cape Dave and Populus
Populus said:
Yeah, deep down I have the same fear, that the M5 will be the last gen prior to a generalized price increase, with more expensive RAM upgrades, for the M6 gen and upwards.

RAM and storage general market prices are staying high for a long time, as AI companies are already making long term deals until the end of the decade for memory. So I feel like, with the M5 Mac mini, it’s like a now or never situation.
Click to expand...
Open AI has already said they don't intend to execute purchases specified in their "letter of intent".
 
  • Like
Reactions: Yvan256, Cape Dave and Populus
ivnj said:
M5 is already rumored to start at 512gb instead of 256gb with a 100 dollar increase.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't put any weight on that.

MacBook Air is 16/512 because Neo 8/256 is the new backstop. Mac mini doesn't need a storage increase.
 
JPack said:
I wouldn't put any weight on that.

MacBook Air is 16/512 because Neo 8/256 is the new backstop. Mac mini doesn't need a storage increase.
Click to expand...

Depends upon the 'bloat' that Apple's (and other projected apps) new AI models increase minimal OS+'standard apps' footprint takes. That's what drove the Mini to 16GB RAM minimums. If the OS at rest gets bigger and fatter the same thing happens to storage.

For example, if Apple starts to expect that folks will want Apple Intelligence plus another 3rd party AI chat app (plus local conversation transcripts/histories) stored by most users ... that would boost minimal storage footprints.

The Neo sizes are driven by the older iOS sizes (and pictures/video that a iPhone Pro would take). That is mostly. It isn't really tightly coupled to the MBA at all except that it is 'smaller Bill of Materials' (BOM) costs. The Neo absolutely has to cost substantially less.
 
JPack said:
MacBook Air is 16/512 because Neo 8/256 is the new backstop. Mac mini doesn't need a storage increase.
Click to expand...
The Neo also has a $100 option for 512GB (plus touch ID) - something that has previously cost $200 consistently across the range. Going forward, it's going to be hard to justify the $200 cost of 512GB on other models.

The base model Neo seems very much aimed at education (who won't use touch ID and will be using it mostly as a chromebook-style web client and won't install much on the local hard drive) - and it will be interesting to see how many personal purchasers go for the 512GB option.

The Neo has also taken away the pressure on the Mini to be the cheapest Mac.

While a $100 increase wouldn't be something to celebrate I think it would be much better value than the current $200 upgrade (and the loss of many cut-price deals on the base model) for 512GB).
 
theluggage said:
The Neo also has a $100 option for 512GB (plus touch ID) - something that has previously cost $200 consistently across the range. Going forward, it's going to be hard to justify the $200 cost of 512GB on other models.
Click to expand...
It’s a $200 upgrade in Canada, which is US$144.

Like in the US, this does not include any taxes.
 
EugW said:
It’s a $200 upgrade in Canada, which is US$144.
Click to expand...
I apologise for not specifically stating US$ - but its easier to make comparisons based on US prices. I'm betting most Apple products in Canada get a similar markup, so its all relative.

Here in the UK, Apple prices are typically obtained by crossing off the $ and writing £ (Some exceptions, e.g. Mac Studio is currently US$2000->£2099), however UK prices do include 20% tax. Pretty typical for US IT products in the UK.

The 512K/TouchID upgrade for the Neo is £100
That's £83 before tax.
Current rate is £1=US$1.32
So that's US$110
 
One of the reasons many of us are really eager for Apple to release the M5 Mac mini, is that due to the war to Iran, a lot of oil and production capacity has been damaged. This is going to have a long standing effect into the economy, and maybe the M5 family are the last devices we can purchase at the “old” traditional prices, before the economy enters into an inflationary spiral… because energy is going to be more expensive.

This isn’t something we’ll see tomorrow or next week, but especially in the coming months and years, when most of the oil reserves start to decrease and a higher average oil price gets stuck on the $100 per barrel price.

Although, who knows, the Mac mini is a carbon neutral device, so maybe remains unaffected… /j

I wish the M5 Mac mini (and Mac Studio) are released as soon as possible, because the effects of the war on the economy are going to arrive like a slow-motion tsunami.

And that’s without taking into account the situation with RAM and SSDs…
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: DCIFRTHS and Cape Dave
Populus said:
One of the reasons many of us are really eager for Apple to release the M5 Mac mini, is that due to the war to Iran, a lot of oil and production capacity has been damaged. This is going to have a long standing effect into the economy, and maybe the M5 family are the last devices we can purchase at the “old” traditional prices, before the economy enters into an inflationary spiral… because energy is going to be more expensive.

This isn’t something we’ll see tomorrow or next week, but especially in the coming months and years, when most of the oil reserves start to decrease and a higher average oil price gets stuck on the $100 per barrel price.

Although, who knows, the Mac mini is a carbon neutral device, so maybe remains unaffected… /j

I wish the M5 Mac mini (and Mac Studio) are released as soon as possible, because the effects of the war on the economy are going to arrive like a slow-motion tsunami.

And that’s without taking into account the situation with RAM and SSDs…
Click to expand...
M5 mini is already rumored to start at 512gb instead of 256gb for the storage which will raise it at least another 100.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cape Dave
ivnj said:
M5 mini is already rumored to start at 512gb instead of 256gb for the storage which will raise it at least another 100.
Click to expand...
The M5 Mini will also not be upgradable to Sequoia. So with one hand Apple gives extra storage then they ARM twist you into running Tahoe until you beg for mercy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back