It's only valid on the consumer side though (which has validity). In Apple's case, I wouldn't expect a price drop, but at least an increase in value (i.e. more RAM and HDD capacity), as they're not large enough to put out graphics cards as quickly as the PC side themselves, and 3rd party isn't an option in anything but the MP.
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The Next Mac Pro
- Thread starter millertime021
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There is more to a Mac Pro than the processor that could warrant an update or refresh. Right now there is a signigicant CPU offering from Intel, that Apple should have already implemented (hex cores).
Aside from that you can keep your loyal fans, I mean customers
, happier if you simply update some of the components or the prices of them. That would sell more MPs than they are selling right now. Then do what you will with an actual refresh happens. How can that hurt?
We all should expect more from Apple! If we do, it might just happen. Granted it won't be overnight, but that's no reason to accept that we are prisonors of
.
Aside from that you can keep your loyal fans, I mean customers
, happier if you simply update some of the components or the prices of them. That would sell more MPs than they are selling right now. Then do what you will with an actual refresh happens. How can that hurt?We all should expect more from Apple! If we do, it might just happen. Granted it won't be overnight, but that's no reason to accept that we are prisonors of
.Definitely, as they're behind any other vendor in this regard.
As per more than that, going by history, Apple's not interested in offering more than that really. They skip out on features that you'd find on other boards, such as SAS, built-in RAID,... Apple even cheapens out on warranty support, as 3yrs is standard on other enterprise systems from any other vendor. Some may see this as nitpicking, but I don't. It's a big deal to IT and business personnel, as it means more $ has to be added to get close. Unfortunately, it really isn't, as Apple expects users to take it into a store, not provide it as On-site, which is standard anywhere else. Granted, On-site support is available under certain conditions, but they make users feel like a massive favor is being granted in those cases. Not so with anyone else (in terms of vendors), as it's standard. No expectation of the user to lug the system into a repair shop in order to obtain warranty support.
That may be true about CPUs, but not GPUs. Also, even if they don't upgrade the configuration, they can at least drop the price.
Nearly every component in the mac pro apart from possibly the Mobo and case has had a continuous drop in price over the past 500 days. The price tag should reflect that every few months.
A lot of people are complaining that "Oh, Apple'd never drop the price, just increase the value!"... They've done neither for 500 days, but if you want to play that game, they could double the hard drive space or quadruple the RAM. Keep the value relative to the rest of the market equal, even if you're not going to update the base config.
Even the 4870 kit Apple offers hasn't changed in price, and they're discontinued in the PC world!
The funny thing is, once it's released, we will all forget we were ever mad and shell out thousands on the thing. We will compare ship times as we refresh our order page every 8 minutes, and when one arrives the entire board will die for a few hours as everyone runs into the "I GOT MINE!" thread to live vicariously through that one person. We will drool over the pictures, and that person should hope to God that the board feels he was "pro" enough to buy an MP, or that he can come up with some imaginary use that makes it sound like he is.
You missed post 101.
Yes, GPU's come out rather often, but Apple's not producing enough systems to justify the cost of developing firmware and/or drivers for new graphics chips often (we think prices are high now...
). It's cheaper (no changes to the system boards on anything with a discrete GPU soldered to the board) and easier for them to stick with one GPU for all but the MP line (less development time), and that's only getting a whopping two choices (GT120 or HD4870; the GTX285 and Quadro FX4800 were created by a 3rd party vendor, not Apple).Unfortunately, that's not how Apple does business. They run on a different model, and like to think they really don't have any competition due to OS X (ignoring the software for other OS's has caught up to or even exceeded that available for OS X, particularly professional applications as I understand it).
I realize this, and also think that users have valid complaints here. They've increased this or that in the past IIRC (i.e. larger HDD), but nothing this time around.
As per the HD4870, they don't consider theirs competing with any other vendor, and use the "take it or leave it" approach as a result (all their products actually, as I see it).
Sorry to say this, but steve jobs is an arrogant little prickwad.
What? It means Steve Jobs isn't historically ignorant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect
Apple is a bit extreme, but he is right. Telling people that in exactly xx days you will have a product that wipes out your current product doesn't do much for you. It is more destructive the longer the "warning" you give. Even if you are IBM selling multi million dollar boxes subject to the same effect.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07/14/ibm_system_z11_preview/
Unlike IBM though Apple has gobs and gobs and gobs of cash coming in. The Mac Pro slows down a bit temporarily it isn't a problem. If system z ecosystem money slows down substantially for IBM then it is a big problem.
It is not a big problem if tell folks in advance who can keep their mouths shut. Like the iPhone case vendors. They have constantlly babbled so no are cut out of the loop. Wouldn't be surprised if some Mac Pro customers were similarly loose lipped and are now cut out also. Their may be some who get Mac Pro prototypes and/or briefings but if they want to keep getting info there is minuscule motivation to leak it on rumor sites.
Some vendors like Intel and AMD announce products earlier because they are components. Their products go into other people's products and so have to tell folks early so they can make plans. Apple's products are primarily at the end of the component food chain, not the middle or beginning.
I don't know that I've ever seen anything more true. I guess we'll just have to wait for the first "what are you going to use it for?" post
If both of these features are supported on the motherboard how would either necessitate a new interior design? IMHO the only way we'll get that is with a new case.
I don't really see the westmere and gulftown as being
Ultra-significant to warrant a whole new machine... if at best, this would be more of an UPGRADE for previous 2009 mac pro owners, as the westmere and gulftown chips fit perfectly in the sockets.. All one needs is the microcode flashed to the efi firmware of the 2009 to make it work.. Sandy Bridge, however IS a significant overhaul and sad to say won't immediately be available in server format until Q4 2011.
I think I might already have the microcode as my firmware bootrom is quite different from everyone elses... B08 could be that firmware which can support B1 stepping.. IDK for sure.. I'd like to try it to confirm, but I don't have a w36xx based processor to try out.
And furthermore, if anything.. this is a silent update and really shouldn't warrant a whole new machine... I think this update is similar going from Woodcrest to Clovertown.. where as HARPERTOWN WAS a significant overhaul and completly different system all together..
Remember guys... Nehalem and Nehalem ex are of the same family.. it wouldn't dawn on me if actually there will be a firmware flash available so that 2009 owners can make use of these chips..
Ultra-significant to warrant a whole new machine... if at best, this would be more of an UPGRADE for previous 2009 mac pro owners, as the westmere and gulftown chips fit perfectly in the sockets.. All one needs is the microcode flashed to the efi firmware of the 2009 to make it work.. Sandy Bridge, however IS a significant overhaul and sad to say won't immediately be available in server format until Q4 2011.
I think I might already have the microcode as my firmware bootrom is quite different from everyone elses... B08 could be that firmware which can support B1 stepping.. IDK for sure.. I'd like to try it to confirm, but I don't have a w36xx based processor to try out.
And furthermore, if anything.. this is a silent update and really shouldn't warrant a whole new machine... I think this update is similar going from Woodcrest to Clovertown.. where as HARPERTOWN WAS a significant overhaul and completly different system all together..
Remember guys... Nehalem and Nehalem ex are of the same family.. it wouldn't dawn on me if actually there will be a firmware flash available so that 2009 owners can make use of these chips..
There is more to a Mac Pro than the processor that could warrant an update or refresh. Right now there is a signigicant CPU offering from Intel, that Apple should have already implemented (hex cores).
Aside from that you can keep your loyal fans, I mean customers
We all should expect more from Apple! If we do, it might just happen. Granted it won't be overnight, but that's no reason to accept that we are prisonors of
This rumor
ISN'T true as there is no reliable source or real viable information to make us believe it is.. someone can say anything they want.. and you know it. If I were to say "Hey guys, I just heard from a friend at the Apple Store in Towson, MD that at the exact time, end of July there will be a 2010 Mac Pro...."
How many of you will believe it? The one who posts the rumor in the end is always the one who is singled out in the end because of fantasy tales that never came true.
However, what I can do is ASK a friend of mine who DOES work at the Apple Store as a Genius(when he goes home, he is all PC), I will ask him when he gets off work if there really is a 2010 mac pro in the pipeline.. and if he provides me the PROOF, then I will post it here for everyone.. and hopefully this will bring this monotonous and broken-record like thread to a REST.
Furthermore, if someone can provide me a w36xx chip, I will try it in my mac pro as my bootrom is different from everyone elses.. B08 could be what can bring the B1 to my system, though not to everyone elses.
ISN'T true as there is no reliable source or real viable information to make us believe it is.. someone can say anything they want.. and you know it. If I were to say "Hey guys, I just heard from a friend at the Apple Store in Towson, MD that at the exact time, end of July there will be a 2010 Mac Pro...."
How many of you will believe it? The one who posts the rumor in the end is always the one who is singled out in the end because of fantasy tales that never came true.
However, what I can do is ASK a friend of mine who DOES work at the Apple Store as a Genius(when he goes home, he is all PC), I will ask him when he gets off work if there really is a 2010 mac pro in the pipeline.. and if he provides me the PROOF, then I will post it here for everyone.. and hopefully this will bring this monotonous and broken-record like thread to a REST.
Furthermore, if someone can provide me a w36xx chip, I will try it in my mac pro as my bootrom is different from everyone elses.. B08 could be what can bring the B1 to my system, though not to everyone elses.
Judging by what I have studied so far about w36xx and x56xx
It really ISN't that significant to warrant a whole new overhaul of the mac pro.. Thats like comparing Woodcrest to clovertown, however Harpertown WAS a significant overhaul as you won't find those with 2006 or 2007 mac pros trying to get x54xx series chip in their systems..
It really ISN't that significant to warrant a whole new overhaul of the mac pro.. Thats like comparing Woodcrest to clovertown, however Harpertown WAS a significant overhaul as you won't find those with 2006 or 2007 mac pros trying to get x54xx series chip in their systems..
Are we on the same page here?
You know as well as I do that the Westmere/Gulftown series DO fit in our 2009 sockets, don't you? Can we also say that really this ISN't a significant upgrade to warrant a whole new box?? Of course.. but if one can get the microcode, then the 2009 most likely will support these chips..
Correct me if I am wrong.. Doesn't this sound very familar to the Woodcrest 2006 mac pro and the 2007 clovertown, yet Clovertown works in the 2006, while Harpertown was a complete overhaul and totally new chips???
Just as the Westmere and Gulftown can fit in our sockets and work with the microcode, I really think Sandy Bridge is going to be that significant overhaul though.. but we won't see that in xeon or server format until Q4 2011 - yes, sandy bridge is going first to consumer level machines, then server.
You know as well as I do that the Westmere/Gulftown series DO fit in our 2009 sockets, don't you? Can we also say that really this ISN't a significant upgrade to warrant a whole new box?? Of course.. but if one can get the microcode, then the 2009 most likely will support these chips..
Correct me if I am wrong.. Doesn't this sound very familar to the Woodcrest 2006 mac pro and the 2007 clovertown, yet Clovertown works in the 2006, while Harpertown was a complete overhaul and totally new chips???
Just as the Westmere and Gulftown can fit in our sockets and work with the microcode, I really think Sandy Bridge is going to be that significant overhaul though.. but we won't see that in xeon or server format until Q4 2011 - yes, sandy bridge is going first to consumer level machines, then server.
Harpertown processors could have worked in 1,1 and 2,1 Mac Pros if Apple had updated firmware, in the same way they could allow 3600 and 5600 processors to work. You won't find people looking to upgrade 1,1 and 2,1 Mac Pros with 5200 and 5400 processors because it has been documented that they don't work. People certainly questioned and tried it when they came out.
exactly..
What really amazed me is that I had a 3.0 ghz 2008 mac pro and couldn't get the x5492 to work which is the last of the harpertown cpus running at 3.4ghz. You would think the whole entire family of harpertown would work in the mac pro.. I am glad you see eye to eye with me on these things..
If only there was a way to get the microcode and create an efi flash utility then we can use these processors.. again, I see the westmere and gulftown as drop in replacement upgrade processors and not any real need to create a whole new mac pro system.. what are your thoughts on this?
But, you also have to understand too that the Harpertown was a totally new design which was nothing like the woodcrest or clovertown.. just as sandy bridge will be a totally new design from Nehalem and Nehalem-ex.
What really amazed me is that I had a 3.0 ghz 2008 mac pro and couldn't get the x5492 to work which is the last of the harpertown cpus running at 3.4ghz. You would think the whole entire family of harpertown would work in the mac pro.. I am glad you see eye to eye with me on these things..
If only there was a way to get the microcode and create an efi flash utility then we can use these processors.. again, I see the westmere and gulftown as drop in replacement upgrade processors and not any real need to create a whole new mac pro system.. what are your thoughts on this?
But, you also have to understand too that the Harpertown was a totally new design which was nothing like the woodcrest or clovertown.. just as sandy bridge will be a totally new design from Nehalem and Nehalem-ex.
It was a revision of the Core architecture, a big one with some big improvements and a die shrink, but not completely new. You can run 1333MHz FSB Xeon 5200 and 5400 processors in boards that were designed for Xeon 5100 processors with a firmware update. The difference was that there was a new chipset required to run the 1600MHz Xeons, and it had other improvements to better utilize things.
Westmere is certainly just a drop in replacement. An evolution in technology, which might be pretty minor depending on what you do. For most people it seems to be more about not buying old hardware and getting value for money.
The "Next" Mac Pro:
• Dual X5680 3.33GHz Westmere CPUs (12-core)
or Single X3680 CPU (6-core)
•*6GB or 12GB of 1333MHz RAM standard, upgradable to 128GB
•*ATI Radeon 5870 GPU (option for GFX 485)
•*2TB Hard Drive Standard, options for SSDs
•*Airport comes standard
• Dual X5680 3.33GHz Westmere CPUs (12-core)
or Single X3680 CPU (6-core)
•*6GB or 12GB of 1333MHz RAM standard, upgradable to 128GB
•*ATI Radeon 5870 GPU (option for GFX 485)
•*2TB Hard Drive Standard, options for SSDs
•*Airport comes standard
I am just being realistic. The technology is here, now, right? Why the hell not use it??
