The Official Battlestar Galactica Thread : SPOILERS

[spicyapple]

A bit clichéd... as if boxing in a ring is somehow cathartic and settles all their long standing issues. I would be more focused on not getting the wind knocked out of me, let alone being able to resolve all my deep psychological neurosis in a quaint 5 minutes.

Admiral Adama sure gave a pithy, elocution of speech end of round while bleeding profusely and no doubt dazed by multiple blows to the head and guts. He's one tough dude.

 

[joepunk]

I'm guessing that the writers decided to go with Apollo joining the marines (he was refered to as Major) now that he no longer has a ship to command.

 

[Marble]

I'm guessing that the writers decided to go with Apollo joining the marines (he was refered to as Major) now that he no longer has a ship to command.

Did you get that from the episode? Why do you think that?

I dunno about this one. I made a quick list of some of the lines used, and the majority are just terrible, and still if you discount the grunts. This script must have been like 20 pages long, the majority of screen time being filled with action, and then that sort of action where you know the person who first gets pummeled is going to come back in the end and win by the skin of his teeth. That kind of suspense is really cheap drama, in my opinion, especially since it's an "explain character motivations" plot like Scar and Black Market last year, both of which were flashback-heavy. At least this one had a sort of revolving door of catharsis that kept it dynamic, but after finishing it I couldn't help but feel that the "explain character motivations" part was at least half "invent character motivations."

The symmetrical love story was tepid because, while it's conceivable Apollo might have gone to Dee to escape his feelings for Starbuck, it doesn't make sense for Starbuck and Anders. I mean, Starbuck and Anders was the topic of last year's clip show in Scar, and she practically moves heaven and earth to rescue him at the end of the season. Er.... And what about the bonding Dualla and Apollo have been going through for the last few episodes? She was instrumental in getting him back in shape, both physically and mentally; I really felt like he admired and respected her, and while that doesn't mean he "loved" her, it does make it seem strange that she was just a rebound for him.

I wish Galactica would go back to 13 episodes, that way we could skip this stuff. It's not that it's bad. I thought the episode was passably structured and it gave a credible reason for Apollo's resentment. But I feel like it's just mixing up the characters for cheap suspense. More than that, episodes like this dampen the sense that the season is being driven by a theme and that every episode is a piece in its puzzle (like season one). Sure, there are strong intra-episode themes, but there's no sense of broader curiosity to them when they stand alone.

 

[Mr. Anderson]

I actually liked it - although they could have done it without the boxing, it added an element of contention. The flashbacks added a lot of details that fill in that "one year later" gap that I hated in the season finally last year. There will probably be more flashbacks, but one thing that struck me was Saul and his wife flashbacks. Saul isn't out yet and there is going to be some really interesting twists coming from that, I'd wager.

And no one has mentioned the total lack of Cylons in this one.

D

 

[joepunk]

Did you get that from the episode? Why do you think that?

Ronald Moore talked about the idea/possiblility in a few podcasts. And a rank of Major is usually not associated with the Navy.

 

[Marble]

Is Major correlate with Commander?

 

[leekohler]

I actually liked it - although they could have done it without the boxing, it added an element of contention. The flashbacks added a lot of details that fill in that "one year later" gap that I hated in the season finally last year. There will probably be more flashbacks, but one thing that struck me was Saul and his wife flashbacks. Saul isn't out yet and there is going to be some really interesting twists coming from that, I'd wager.

And no one has mentioned the total lack of Cylons in this one.

D

I liked the show too. It'll be interesting to see what happens with Dee and sam now.

 

[Marble]

Questions for this episode: Why does Adm. Adama have a grudge against Tyrol, or vice-versa, when the flashbacks show them on more or less great terms in the end? Second, would Adama really lose that fight? Or was the idea that he meant to lose? In episode 12 of season one, we see him beat Lee, so why does he lose against someone who probably hasn't practiced physical combat since training?

 

[bluebomberman]

Some quick answers to people's questions:

1. Apollo's no longer a Commander because he doesn't have a Battlestar to command. So he's back to Major (the rank he had at the beginning of "The Captain's Hand.") Last I checked, he's the CAG. (Go back to the beginning of "Torn" and watch Apollo ground Starbuck after the Viper training exercise.)

2. Keep in mind that the BSG rank structure is an amalgam of different rank structures. See Ron Moore's blog and scroll way down for the ranks.

3. The whole fight between Adama and Tyrol was to make a point about not getting fat and lazy -- notice before the fight that Tyrol was slacking off his duties, and afterwards he went back to the hangar to work on a ship.

Myself, I'm not as thrilled with the show as I was in the past. Although there hasn't been any clunkers like "Black Market," I've found the show isn't giving me the intense nerve-wracking rush that I got from the first 11.85 episodes of Season 2 and from all of Season 1. I'm not sure exactly why, but a few things come to mind:

-For me, the show's become a little more predictable. (They obviously couldn't wipe out all the Cylons at the end of "A Measure of Salvation.") There's just less surprise moments. I don't think I've been surprised by the show this season since the battlestar combat scenes in the second part of Exodus, save for D'Anna's addiction to resurrections.

-Using flashback intercutting a bit too much (It was okay when they did it for "Scar" because they hadn't really done it up to that point, but they're going to the well too often now...)

-They're a bit sloppier: Tyrol's missing beard at the beginning of Exodus, the quick return of the Vipers from New Caprica near the end of Exodus, the lack of total continuity on the diseased Battlestar between "Torn" and "A Measure of Salvation" (it was obvious that they weren't in the same room as the one that Gaius went into, but they inserted a shot of the probe to make it seem like it), the very obvious real-world IDE computer power cables hanging out of the air filtration system that Helo messed with at the end of "A Measure of Salvation," the stretch of a plot for "Hero" (yeah, I know I said I liked that episode a lot, but the plausibility of it kept nagging at me).

EDIT: Might I add that I find the Apollo-Starbuck thing to be more interesting from the perspective of how much fallout there will be. They're both married to other people, so it's going to get ugly.

 

[Marble]

EDIT: Might I add that I find the Apollo-Starbuck thing to be more interesting from the perspective of how much fallout there will be. They're both married to other people, so it's going to get ugly.

I suppose it will probably be dramatic, but then it's pretty easy, almost soapy, drama.

In my mind, the problem is that it's become a little too diluted over 20 episodes. 13 episodes, combined with the writing team really wanting to prove themselves, made season one glitter.

 

[bluebomberman]

I suppose it will probably be dramatic, but then it's pretty easy, almost soapy, drama.

In my mind, the problem is that it's become a little too diluted over 20 episodes. 13 episodes, combined with the writing team really wanting to prove themselves, made season one glitter.

A victim of success, I suppose. They ain't going back to 13 episodes.

 

[mkrishnan]

1. Apollo's no longer a Commander because he doesn't have a Battlestar to command. So he's back to Major (the rank he had at the beginning of "The Captain's Hand.") Last I checked, he's the CAG. (Go back to the beginning of "Torn" and watch Apollo ground Starbuck after the Viper training exercise.)

FWIW he is called CAG at least once in Friday's episode as well, during the boxing...

 

[bluebomberman]

...would Adama really lose that fight? Or was the idea that he meant to lose? In episode 12 of season one, we see him beat Lee, so why does he lose against someone who probably hasn't practiced physical combat since training?

Remember the dialogue:

Apollo: I thought we were just sparring.
Adama: That's why you lost.

 

[Piarco]

Now I enjoyed that episode - maybe more than I expected as I'd read peeps options here first! Good to have the back fill and good to see that Lee and Kara are getting back on track - but man I felt sorry for Anders and especially Dee at the end... sooooo painful. Sad that they are two good people who are/know they are in an untenable situation...

 

[joepunk]

Some quick answers to people's questions:

....

Thanks for clearing somethings up.

 

[Queso]

Did anyone listen to the round-table podcast yesterday? Although a lot of it was just actors talking about what they do, James Callas is hilarious. You can see the writers draw a lot on his personality when they come up with the scripts for Baltar.

 

[~Shard~]

Did anyone listen to the round-table podcast yesterday? Although a lot of it was just actors talking about what they do, James Callas is hilarious. You can see the writers draw a lot on his personality when they come up with the scripts for Baltar.

No, I missed it - thanks for the head's up, I'll have to grab it and have a listen.

And as for "Unfinished Business" I didn't mind it. I think the use of the boxing ring and matches was appropriately symbolic and it's nice to get some of the backstory filled in from the missing year. Also, BSG has spent so much money on previous episodes, it's inevitible that they're going to come out with episodes like this throughout the season to keep costs down.

But, no Cylons at all in the episode - not sure if I liked that or not.

And although I'm enjoying this season, I have to say that I do think Season 1 and 2 were stronger. Season 1 was shorter and as a result, tighter and more potent in my opinion. A 20-episode season just naturally dilutes things and that's just the way it is. Season 1 had a lot more unknown and mystery to it as well. Obviously, questions get answered and a lot of that uncertainty naturally goes away as the series progresses - fair enough. But the other aspect which I really enjoyed, which seems to have taken a backseat recently, is the whole religious aspect. I thought it was so unqiue and such a twist when BSG initially started bringing in religious and spiritual overtones to the episodes - it really added a unique element to the sci-fi genre. Additionally, these "prophecies" were coming true, which made skeptics take note that it might not all be "fluff" and furthermore, the Cylons (which are machines) seemed to be more in touch and more knowledgable on the subject than the humans themselves! This seems to hae gone away recently, other than issues like D'Anna's fascination with dying and the afterlife.

Season 2 was great as well for the most part - the story arc surrounding the Pegasus and the Resurrection Ship was simply amazing and some of the best sci-fi drama I've ever seen. It had its weaker moments, but also gems like "Downloaded".

Don't get me wrong, Season 3 has been great (the rescue from "Exodus" was jaw-droppingly exciting) but if I had to choose, I'd give Season 1+2 the edge so far. But it's all relative - I'm talking about Season 1+2 getting a 15/10 rating whereas Season 3 "only" gets a 12/10 rating in my books. And the season isn't even half over yet, so plenty of time for more surprises and twists.

Just some thoughts....

 

[Queso]

Jamie Bamber makes that point about season 1 in the podcast, saying that when we knew less about the Cylons they seemed so much more potent. You had no idea what their motivations were, so when they suddenly appeared it really was exciting. Now that the story is sort of being told from both sides, the conflict scenes between the races have less impact, and as a result the writers are instead exploring deeper into the lives of the main characters.

 

[~Shard~]

Jamie Bamber makes that point about season 1 in the podcast, saying that when we knew less about the Cylons they seemed so much more potent. You had no idea what their motivations were, so when they suddenly appeared it really was exciting. Now that the story is sort of being told from both sides, the conflict scenes between the races have less impact, and as a result the writers are instead exploring deeper into the lives of the main characters.

Yep, makes sense. The Cylons do seem to be less of an overall threat now though, and I'm not sure if that's necessary - we can still know more about them and their motivations without having to make them more vulnerable and so forth. That being said, by introducing flaws and weaknesses into the Cylons, this makes for good development, being able to relate to them and so forth, as opposed to making them invincible (and therefore unrealistic?) no matter what.

Just seems like those Baystars go down a lot easier now than they used to...

 

[bluebomberman]

Dammit, Kat became one of my faves...

 

[HydroMan]

Great episode throughout, a thriller and more info on the final five, but what a sad ending , I too liked Kat's character, shame.

 

[Queso]

That was a great return to form, and a nice take on that original series episode where the Vipers led the fleet blind through a minefield. And the Cylons are coming again thanks to that blabbermouth in the tank

 

[iMetroid]

Anybody know if there was an episode this week? It's 12:34 AM, Sunday morning and still nothing on iTunes. I'm a little obsessed.

 

[~Shard~]

Anybody know if there was an episode this week? It's 12:34 AM, Sunday morning and still nothing on iTunes. I'm a little obsessed.

Did you not read the comments right above yours? Yes, there was indeed an episode this week - I grabbed it off the torrents immediately after it aired and am about to watch it right now.

 

[Marble]

Medium Well.

I must say that the writer of this week's episode had a better hand for dialogue than many of the previous stories. That, and the device of getting through the solar cluster was a fine, very traditional for BSG, "super-antagonism." It's kind of the model for BSG in microcosm: the future of the human race is at stake due to <physical reality here>, but that is never as threatening as the challenges we face between each other. The bonus here was that starvation AND irradiation were the physical reality in that formula, making the episode seem as exhausting as their situation was. The gruesome portraits of the pilots certainly helped, though it was a pity we did not get to see what surely must have been the terror of the helpless civilians "fording the river."

My issue with the style of the piece is that the Kat/Starbuck plot was a bit of whiplash. Why Starbuck is so cruel to Kat (especially as their rivalry seemed to have been resolved, or at least accepted, in Scar) is mysterious. Why are stims still even an issue when the problem hasn't even been mentioned in episodes that were Kat/Starbuck heavy?

Starbuck's relentlessness made me wonder if there was something about being a criminal that struck a personal chord with her, but I can't think of any reason why she would be harder on someone about that than anyone else. Then when Kat performs the hero maneuver (I thought we were going to be spared self-sacrifice on this one, but heigh-ho), Starbuck can't do much more than clap her hands. Does this mean all Starbuck needed was a chance for Kat to prove herself, as if she hadn't already in Scar? Their antagonism seemed like a resurrection of a dead issue.

This is why Kat's secret identity (actually, I take half-back about the dialogue; "do they even know who you are?" is pretty awful) is frustrating. I want to look back and go "oh, of course she was a drug runner! That makes sense!" but as far as this story is concerned it could have been anything. Her stim addiction was better when it was a tragic consequence of people pushed too hard than some personal flaw (does the fact that she was addicted a while ago actually have anything to do with her history as a drug runner? I don't get if there was supposed to be a connection). It sucks that Kat, whose characterization had begun to be really strong—her drawn-out rivalry, her unexpected skill, her pigheadedness were all consistent and interesting—gets a resolution that was basically invented that episode. The whole "secret past" thing is pretty unconnected, and as even the characters realize at the end, totally irrelevant.

More cylon stuff is good, but the goal here was "what's D'Anna up to?" I like that goal because it's a question I (we've all) had for a little while, but it's resolved so easily. D'Anna just decides she's going to tell Baltar, no problem. And then after she tells him they get some information from the jump drive, but mostly they sort of scratch their head. "What does it mean??" wonders Baltar. Oh, never mind, it's just another geographical clue from the scriptures. I was much more interested in Baltar's obsession with moving from traitor to hero.

I keep hoping that the writers are going to start capitalizing on the wealth of themes that have been churned up by two and a half seasons of character development.