The Official Battlestar Galactica Thread : SPOILERS

[zflauaus]

Can anyone tell me why the Kara was called the 'harbinger of death' by the hybrid?

And why did the six ghost tell Gyus (sp) that he would lead the humans to their end?

I'm thinking the whole "harbinger of death" thing was not death in a literal sense of all of humanity. It's more along the lines of the death of the old Colonial lifestyle. Sending the ships to the sun and essentially throwing away all the old customs and traditions of the Twelve Colonies is the death of the colonies.

And Head Six told Gaius he would lead humans to the end of their journey. They've found Earth. Journey is over.

 

[mkrishnan]

I'm thinking the whole "harbinger of death" thing was not death in a literal sense of all of humanity.

I think perhaps one step farther -- I think, the implication is that Hera, as "Mitochondrial Eve" ultimately gave birth to the civilization of Earth, suggesting that we're not strictly humans, but rather that humanity died and the hybrid species / civilization of humans and cylons intermixed replaced it?

 

[StokeLee]

Angel Caprica's Six's last few words in New York

Ok, I've a question and for the folks in the UK this is a spoiler




In New York when Baltar asks does all this happen again, and Caprica says I bet this time no. Then she says " That Too is in Gods Plan", and then Baltar says you know he doesn't like that name....

Whats all that about?

 

[mkrishnan]

Whats all that about?

I was wondering about that tidbit also...

 

[Queso]

Remember Caprica had a miscarriage so it's possible she and Baltar could have a child.

But when they fast forward to the present day the magazine RDM is reading makes a point of saying modern humans all descended from a single female who lived in modern day Tanzania. Baltar then says "along with her Cylon mother and Human father". Hera is obviously the common ancestor we all share.

...and then Baltar says you know he doesn't like that name....

It. Baltar doesn't say he, he says "It". I think they are suggesting "God" might be a Cylon

 

[hulugu]

A few thoughts:

The show was mostly good with certain moments that stand out as being really good or bad.

The battle was great, loved to see the classic "By Your Command" Centurions in combat. And ramming the Galactica into the Colony was both a homage to classical naval tactics and Robotech. I thought the scene with Boomer and Athena was well-played out: Boomer redeems herself, Athena kills her anyway. It was cathartic and it made sense with what we know about both 8s.
I also enjoyed that as Galactica turns towards the sun with Sam as the slack-jawed navigation device we hear a faint piece of the original series' theme.

The character study of Bill Adama and Laura Roslin is the beating heart of the show. These last few moments, especially when they were watching the gazelles was very well done, well-acted and scripted. I'm continually impressed by these two actors who have built a human relationship among all the melodrama.

The final deus ex machina still bothers me a bit, I knew we had "angels" of some sort running around, but I didn't like that by the end of the show, they were definitively mystical rather than the possible ravings of half-mad genius Baltar. That this idea was furthered by Kara just poofing away seemed especially false. I would have preferred her disappearing more mysteriously, either by leading Lee into a chase into grass or forest, a storm, or her flying away to join another colony, but never arriving.

And, the last 30 seconds didn't work for me at all. Seeing Ron Moore's mug was fun, but the "angels" conversation was too pat and obvious.

Also, I wish the writers had a better sense of where characters were at a given moment: where the hell is Racetrack, Hotdog, and the nurse? Where's Hotdog's kid? Or the many other crew chiefs, pilots, or marines we've met for a moment, but who just disappear. And, where's D'ianna, the Cylon 3?

Ultimately, I enjoyed this episode and I still love the series even if it does have a few flat notes. Or Jimmy Hendrix at the end.

 

[Shivetya]

150,000 years...


Guess this cycle has a lot more time between it than the last one.

 

[andiwm2003]

i haven't seen all episodes of the series. but didn't kara die in the malstrom by getting her viper collapsed? so how did she get to earth 1 to crashland there? some angel came back in her place but how did kara get there? who was the 13 cylon and who was the piano player who knew the melodie that switched on the final five?


i missed the part of the show where the xo had promised cavil resurrection till kara typed in the jump coordinates (GF called me and I muted the TV). How did they know where our earth is? how did the fleet manage to meet them there?

 

[mkrishnan]

It. Baltar doesn't say he, he says "It". I think they are suggesting "God" might be a Cylon

I had to listen to it a few times again (I had it with On Demand anyway) ... the first time I heard it, i was sure he said "he," and I had been quite surprised. But now I think he might indeed have said it. Interesting theory.

i haven't seen all episodes of the series. but didn't kara die in the malstrom by getting her viper collapsed? so how did she get to earth 1 to crashland there? some angel came back in her place but how did kara get there? who was the 13 cylon and who was the piano player who knew the melodie that switched on the final five?

i missed the part of the show where the xo had promised cavil resurrection till kara typed in the jump coordinates (GF called me and I muted the TV). How did they know where our earth is? how did the fleet manage to meet them there?

Kara did die in the maelstrom. How the viper that had Kara's body in it wasn't explained, as far as I know. The 13th cylon's name was Daniel and a lot of us suspect that he was the piana player and Kara's father (or rather an angel appeared as him?), although the idea was never explored.

As for that scene, Baltar makes an argument for faith for Cavil to not take Hera, while everyone has guns on him. Cavil argues with Baltar, but he does sort of listen, and then Tigh offers him resurrection. Tori warns the others that they'd find out things about each other that were shameful, but Tigh blows her off and they put their hands in the vat with Anders to unlock the data and send it to the colony. This goes along until Galen sees Tori kill Calleigh, and then he pulls out and kills her. The cylons start shooting at the humans again and get killed. Meanwhile, by chance, an asteroid hits one of the downed Raptors that was floating in space, and the bump makes the pilot's hand (this is Racetrack, right?) launch nukes at the colony, which starts destructing. Kara is closest to the FTL controls so Bill orders her to jump -- she says she doesn't have the rendezvous coordinates, so he tells her to jump blind. Instead, she types in the numbers she assigned to the notes of the song. The jump takes the Battlestar to Earth, cresting over the moon and showing Earth in the distance.

I think the idea is that Kara didn't have the rendezvous coordinates but someone else did, so they send a Raptor to the jump point to summon the fleet. When Hoshii hands back his admiral's bars, he says he was gladdest when the Raptor jumped to the rendezvous point. So I think they sent a Raptor back for the fleet.

 

[hulugu]

...The cylons start shooting at the humans again and get killed.

Except for Cavil who let's out an exasperated "frack" and eats his own gun.

Meanwhile, by chance, an asteroid hits one of the downed Raptors that was floating in space, and the bump makes the pilot's hand (this is Racetrack, right?) launch nukes at the colony, which starts destructing....

Interesting. I didn't think she was Racetrack, but you might be right. That goes back to my complaint about the secondary characters who have been relegated to near-cannon fodder by the show's writers.

 

[iShater]

Except for Cavil who let's out an exasperated "frack" and eats his own gun.

That was a quite human move on his part. I guess he realized that it was over.

Interesting. I didn't think she was Racetrack, but you might be right. That goes back to my complaint about the secondary characters who have been relegated to near-cannon fodder by the show's writers.

It was Racetrack. Earlier in the episode she told her co-pilot to arm the nukes so that they are ready when called, an asteroid goes through the front windshield and takes out everybody inside.

If you think about it, she was part of the mutiny yet still joined to the end and ended up playing a major part from a smart decision she made ... even though she executed it by accident.

I watched the rerun last night (that was a long marathon for me!) and didn't see Hotdog walking with any of the people, so that for me was kinda disappointing. But I can't think of any other secondary characters who we didn't have closure for. It almost seemed like they just sent them with the new president or something.

Few more thoughts:
- So there are a few more Cylon ships out there, since we know the fleet figured out how to bring the Galactica to the colony was after two base ships jumped out right?
- Did they ever cover how long Cylons lived? we don't know how long they stayed with the humans?
- We didn't see any Cylons on the planet other than Caprica and Athena, where did they all go?
- Leobin (spelling?) deserved a bigger role in the finale.
- Am I the only one who was glad Tori was gone?
- When Baltar decided to stay, me and my buddy cheered quite loudly.

 

[mkrishnan]

But I can't think of any other secondary characters who we didn't have closure for.

I liked how the guy who played Hoshi got a few chances to be in the spotlight, with his relationship with Gaeta and finally with his brief stint as admiral. I guess there could have been more denouement ... what people like Leoben or some of the Cylon copies decided to do with their lives, or perhaps a few more of the minor characters, but overall, I thought that the epilogue was reasonably nice.

[Various observations]

It was also interesting, come to think of it, that there seemed to still be humans on the colonies, either as Cylon prisoners / detainees or possibly as resistance, but they kind of get ignored.

With regard to the other Cylons, Leoben says that the models who sided with the humans decided to stay, so presumably they went with various groups to different parts of the world? I think the suggestion is that they live more or less human lifespans if they can't resurrect, although I don't think that was confirmed. It seemed to be what had happened on the first Earth.

Re: Tori, yeah. She was almost as bad as Calleigh.

Re: Baltar, me too. And I cheered when Baltar and Caprica saw each other's angels -- that was my favorite scene, although the extended interpretation of the Battlestar as the Opera House was stunningly choreographed. Of all the characters, the two of them were always the one I rooted for, and I was really glad with how the storyline ended for them.

 

[spinnerlys]

I've just seen the finale and am somehow sad to see it gone. It's like losing a strange friend - television is sometimes my family surrogate as I don't have any.

I liked the way they handled almost everything, maybe I'm easy to please, I don't know.

I can't say more at the moment, I just wanted to give you this link with an interview with RDM on the finale: http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune...ybreak-finale-moore-mcdonnell-olmos.html#more

Sorry if was posted already.

 

[iShater]

I liked how the guy who played Hoshi got a few chances to be in the spotlight, with his relationship with Gaeta and finally with his brief stint as admiral. I guess there could have been more denouement ... what people like Leoben or some of the Cylon copies decided to do with their lives, or perhaps a few more of the minor characters, but overall, I thought that the epilogue was reasonably nice.

Hoshi is one of those characters that you don't think too much about but you know he is dependable. I actually did not see the Webisodes yet, and I just saw he was in the first one. I guess I have a few more Galactica things to watch.

It was also interesting, come to think of it, that there seemed to still be humans on the colonies, either as Cylon prisoners / detainees or possibly as resistance, but they kind of get ignored.

With regard to the other Cylons, Leoben says that the models who sided with the humans decided to stay, so presumably they went with various groups to different parts of the world? I think the suggestion is that they live more or less human lifespans if they can't resurrect, although I don't think that was confirmed. It seemed to be what had happened on the first Earth.


Re: Tori, yeah. She was almost as bad as Calleigh.

Re: Baltar, me too. And I cheered when Baltar and Caprica saw each other's angels -- that was my favorite scene, although the extended interpretation of the Battlestar as the Opera House was stunningly choreographed. Of all the characters, the two of them were always the one I rooted for, and I was really glad with how the storyline ended for them.

I guess we might hear more about those left-behind folks in the future!

The Baltar and Caprica moment you mention was awesome.

Galactica was supposed to be an old ship, from the first Cylon war correct?

 

[iShater]

I've just seen the finale and am somehow sad to see it gone. It's like losing a strange friend - television is sometimes my family surrogate as I don't have any.

I liked the way they handled almost everything, maybe I'm easy to please, I don't know.

I can't say more at the moment, I just wanted to give you this link with an interview with RDM on the finale: http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune...ybreak-finale-moore-mcdonnell-olmos.html#more

Sorry if was posted already.

Thank you for the link, it is a great read. It is funny how Moore called it Senior Year, because that is the best way to describe the feelings of fans of the show. We didn't want it to end, we knew it had to, we were there till the end, we are hoping to have the reunions to stay connected, but we know it will be different in the future.

Man, I have never really gave a frak about a show like this one!

 

[mkrishnan]

Galactica was supposed to be an old ship, from the first Cylon war correct?

First, meaning, I think, some ... 50 years? before the story takes place? One of the Wiki entry states that the war lasted 12.5 years and that there were 40 years of apparent peace before the Cylon attack. But whether there was another Cylon war thousands of years earlier when the 13th tribe took to the stars is less clear.

EDIT: So there's this one more confirmed (?) project for BSG, this Battlestar Galactica: The Plan, right? Which is to be a made-for-TV movie that will tell part of the story from the Cylon perspective? Is this actually more of a rumor, or is it pretty widely expected to be made?

 

[hulugu]

....It was Racetrack. Earlier in the episode she told her co-pilot to arm the nukes so that they are ready when called, an asteroid goes through the front windshield and takes out everybody inside....

I didn't think that was Racetrack at first, but you're right. It's interesting how her story ends with a random bump (or maybe not so random) of a asteroid.

...

....
- So there are a few more Cylon ships out there, since we know the fleet figured out how to bring the Galactica to the colony was after two base ships jumped out right?

This is a loose thread, clearly it doesn't make sense for all the Basestars to be at the Colony at one time, so there are definitely Cylons (with or without their own Cavil) around, but they may never find Earth.

- Did they ever cover how long Cylons lived? we don't know how long they stayed with the humans?

Like Cylon strength, this seemed to vary as well. I'd assume they're roughly similar, but I don't think this was ever covered. In the beginning it didn't matter because of Resurrection.

- Leobin (spelling?) deserved a bigger role in the finale.

Agree. I think they traded Leoben's screen time for Simon.

 

[Tilpots]

I've just seen the finale and am somehow sad to see it gone. It's like losing a strange friend - television is sometimes my family surrogate as I don't have any.

I liked the way they handled almost everything, maybe I'm easy to please, I don't know.

I can't say more at the moment, I just wanted to give you this link with an interview with RDM on the finale: http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune...ybreak-finale-moore-mcdonnell-olmos.html#more

Sorry if was posted already.

Started reading this article, but I won't finish til tommorow... Hope it's got some insight as to why things ended the way they did.


This ending was up and down for me. Not as satisfied as I'd hoped to be but it's been a good run for this show so I won't complain too much. I wish the last few shows would have been more expansive stories of this last ep. Oh well.

It's been a good 6 yrs. BSG, thanks for the entertainment!

 

[gkarris]

I stuggled to like the new series compared to the original, but the ending made me appreciate the entire series more.

The original had a great last episode, but since it was cancelled after, the last show was left hanging.

At least in the new series they knew about the cancellation ahead of time and was able to make the last episode great and have closure.

What's "The Plan"? Looks, just like Stargate, they are going to have some movies?

 

[Marble]

Yeah. I didn't mind the ending as such. It's nice to know that BSG remembers that it's an adaptation and has stayed connected and commented on its source.

In fact, while I truly admire many of the solutions Ron Moore had formulated for his final episode, including the fantastic interpretation of the opera house as Galactica, I wasn't satisfied with any of the individual characters' endings. Even Adama and Roslin, amazingly performed and scripted as it was, didn't bring the characters any further in their relationship than they've been for some time now already. These are the exact same people that sat next to each other around the fire on New Caprica.

The same goes for Lee "I just wanna explore" Adama, Kara "I have no good explanation" Thrace, Galen "I plan to piss off" Tyrol, "I'm a giant coincidence" Hera, Tigh and Ellen, who we are supposed to believe were always a happy couple at heart, Baltar and Six, who were not nearly as important as we thought they were, and the whole fleet. Despite the many rationalizations, I still cannot fathom why everyone in this previously divisive, independently streaked potpourri of all humanity would simply decide simultaneously to forego technology and return to the land just because Lee says so. It's even worse than believing that a crewload of people were willing to galavant off for Hera, because at least then there was a red line. And I could only shake my sorry head at a random asteroid crashing into the floating raptor just in time for everyone to be back on Galactica safely having a moral argument. Oh dear oh dear.

Was there no hope for Anders then? It seemed to be a case of, "he might wake up at any moment" just an episode or two ago, and now he's fing off into the sun?

Okay, I did like a lot more than I pretend to. It was expertly directed; the scripting was crisp; the action was ace; I didn't even mind the centurions; the twist around Tyrol flipping out at the worst possible moment over Tory was a fantastic moment of realized dread. Even the flashbacks mainly worked - except perhaps for Adama's, which unlike the others didn't particularly illuminate his actions in the present. It's just that the characters felt too little justice. And I felt like the show had to push too hard to become meaningful at the end. The most elegant endings are the ones that you realize make sense at the very last minute. By the time Daybreak was broadcast, the question had already been for all of us, "will the cycle continue or won't it" for several years (!). Simply for the Baltar angel to restate the question at the end failed to bring it to any new level, which is the function of an ending. It was the last dot - connected.

My judgment is that, on the whole, Daybreak was as good of an ending as this season was going to get. It "fit." But what did it fit with?

 

[SactoGuy18]

What I've found fascinating is that Ronald D. Moore left enough hanging in the three-hour "Daybreak" that we can argue about this ad nauseum, but yet he wrote enough clarity that the series actually had something that The Sopranos finale lacked: real closure.

The final scenes showing all those robots on the big flat-panel TV screens really does make you ask does George Santayana's famous aphorism, "Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it" (from the first volume of The Life of Reason books), really apply in this case. It's almost as if Moore actually read Santayana's five volumes of The Life of Reason before creating the current Battlestar Galactica series.

 

[iShater]

First, meaning, I think, some ... 50 years? before the story takes place? One of the Wiki entry states that the war lasted 12.5 years and that there were 40 years of apparent peace before the Cylon attack. But whether there was another Cylon war thousands of years earlier when the 13th tribe took to the stars is less clear.

EDIT: So there's this one more confirmed (?) project for BSG, this Battlestar Galactica: The Plan, right? Which is to be a made-for-TV movie that will tell part of the story from the Cylon perspective? Is this actually more of a rumor, or is it pretty widely expected to be made?

If that is the case, then we might see Galactica make a cameo in Caprica

The Plan is a confirmed project coming in the fall. SciFi has it up on the BSG homepage, and it is from the Cylon perspective. The other side of everything we saw.

 

[atszyman]

150,000 years...


Guess this cycle has a lot more time between it than the last one.

Well it's doubtful that they sent all their technology to the sun with the last cycle. That probably set them back about 150,000 years...

If that is the case, then we might see Galactica make a cameo in Caprica

The Plan is a confirmed project coming in the fall. SciFi has it up on the BSG homepage, and it is from the Cylon perspective. The other side of everything we saw.

I thought they had a preview for the show from the Cylon point of view during the showing of the finale. Along with peaks at Caprica and SG-U.

All of which either look pretty good and/or involve actors that I'll give a chance at almost anything.

 

[iShater]

Well it's doubtful that they sent all their technology to the sun with the last cycle. That probably set them back about 150,000 years...

They only sent the ships out, they kept the supplies, took raptors and other items.

I thought they had a preview for the show from the Cylon point of view during the showing of the finale. Along with peaks at Caprica and SG-U.

All of which either look pretty good and/or involve actors that I'll give a chance at almost anything.

Yep, previews for all and the actors looked good.

The SG-U one looked interesting. I am trying to get a better feel for what exactly it will be like. My feeling is a ST Voyager/Galactica/"we are out there on our own and we have to survive"

 

[zelmo]

There was really no way for RDM/DE to close out the show with all loose ends tied to everyone's satisfaction. Having said that, I was quite content with the finale. I feel a bit wistful that it's all finally over. Any idea when the final episodes will be out on DVD?
Very much looking forward to Caprica as well as The Plan.