Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Kinda supports my expressed thoughts that the iPhone is half done. I might even get one when the OS is all there.

As to the software stack on the iPhone, you have to wonder how well everything would be working if the developers had access to hardware through out the development process. It is pretty obvious that the first few software updates from Apple where there to squish bugs.

Dave

As far as the using the iPhone, it does not feel 'half done' at all to me. If this is half done, then it is 'half done' Apple style, with half as many issues and crashes as anyone else's 'half done'! I am truly amazed given the time pressures to get this thing out, they were able to produce something so excellent.

The fact that there has not been a great deal of software updates since (minor ones), tells me that something nice is brewing there, and hopefully we should see a very tasty update next week... Fingers crossed anyway.
 
And stop complaining about whatever apple may be getting from the carrier on the monthly contracts. It's from the carrier, not from you. In the U.S. at least, $20/month over the cost of the basic calling plan for free garbage phones, to get internet/unlimited data, etc. is a bargain.

Sadly, this is not the case in Europe.

The operators have passed Apple's monthly cut on to the customer, resulting in poor value packages.
 
I can't believe how much money apple gets from these things. $400+$240 per contract?? That's WITHOUT accessories. What was their estimated cost to build, 200? (really stretching the memory on that one, not at all confident).

I'm so frustrated with our cellphone industry in the U.S. Compared to the rest of the world, we're so backwards and are being abused left and right by the carriers. Why can't I buy a phone and THEN pick my carrier based on if my phone is GSM or CDMA? Makes no sense. I think the cellphone marketing strategy should be for a set fee. Ie, you pay $40/month and that includes all data, texts, and as many minutes, within the U.S., as you can use. I don't get all the 'minutes' crap.

well you can buy your phone then pick your carrier if you want for the GSM phones. Just it is going to cost you quite a bit more money to get the phone because it is not be subsidized by the providers.
 
I really don't think the iPhone is that special, I was more productive with my treo and now since I switched to the iPhone I miss my treo. I cannot download email attachments and save locally on the phone. It takes 3 clicks to get to the number pad, so making a phone call can be a bit more tasking than using any other phone. Copy / Paste ? Send a file wirelessly from one iPhone to another? video recording? Ability to edit a word or excel document?

The iPhone still lacks some serious software upgrades to become a productive business phone.
 
There are lots of things like that - look at the bicycle chain and gear system - its amazingly crappy, and over 150 years old, but there is no impetus to change it.

Off topic.

There has been a lot of change in this area. New materials, much thinner chains and now, electronic transmission.

Bad example. Plus hub gears are popular on city bikes due to the low maintance nature of them. City bikes in the Netherlands almost exclusively use hub gears.

Bad example.
 
... The phones themselves cost practically nothing to produce, with minimal R&D. ...

This is not true.
I write embedded software for mobile phones. I've worked for several big manufacturers.
Generally a development cycle will take 12-18 months and involve hundreds of people in engineering (software, hardware and ASICs), test, type approval, marketing etc. across multiple countries and multiple companies. The outcome of this cycle will be a handful of handset models all based on the common "platform" all with different plastics and feature sets and selling at different price points. These models will be released (with upgrades over time - the engineering doesn't stop completely) while the next development cycle runs and the next "platform" is created.
The big manufacturers will have several such cycles in progress at any one time (based on different chipsets and different OS's such as Symbian, Windows mobile or RTOS).
The R&D between two models on a common platform will be minimal, but between platforms it is very large.

The handset manufacture is also not trivial once you consider re-tooling a factory to produce the different designs for the circuit boards and populating them and making all the different cases.
 
What's interesting about Steve (and Apple) is his insight to see that what they did was junk (with the first iPod enabled phone) and look at their resources and turn a mistake into gold. It's that sort of insight and innovation that makes Apple shine. Now we wait for more... is it Tuesday yet?
 
The idea is that the jerkwad phone companies are the ones that set the exorbitant prices (not manufacturers) for their crappy little phones, and then they will pay for the "expensive" handset, as long as you sign your soul to them for two years. Of course, they're not really paying Nokia or LG or anyone the "list price" -- they just made whatever astronomically high number they wanted, so it seems like you're getting a real bargain when you sign up with them. The phones themselves cost practically nothing to produce, with minimal R&D.

So, the trick is this: Nokia makes a $20 phone (that is, it costs $20 to manufacture). AT&T advises Nokia that the phone is worth $100. Nokia sets the price at $100. AT&T will offer to GIVE you the phone, if you sign up with AT&T. AT&T pays Nokia maybe something like $30 for the phone. You think you've saved $100. Your first monthly bill is $80, of which $49 is profit for AT&T, after they paid Nokia. Each subsequent bill is $79 of pure profit.

The difference with iPhone (and the reason that AT&T isn't giving them out if you sign up) is that 1) Apple set the price, not AT&T; 2) Apple actually expects to get $400 for every iPhone they sell (minus whatever percentage for phones sold in AT&T stores); and 3) The iPhone actually is a $400 phone. That is to say, the cost to research, develop, manufacture, and garner a (reasonable) profit makes $400 a sensible price -- no "wiggle room" for AT&T.

I suppose where I'm struggling is that the phones I've had for free cost a lot "sim-free". For example I was once given two RAZRs (not a great phone I know, but this was nearly 3 years ago). My k800i was free over a year ago and my contract doesn't cost a fortune.

jouster said:
It doesn't. It hands some to the device manufacturers, which is what the article states.

You are quite right. However, the point I tried to make and completely failed to get across, is that the article seems to suggest (to me at least) that the way the iPhone has shaken up the mobile industry is a positive thing.

IMO it has done completely the opposite. UK customers are being held to ransom over the iPhone with truly disproportionate fees. If it wasn't such an incredible product, nobody would consider it. Yes, of course I can look elsewhere and nobody is making me purchase one but I worry that it is setting a dangerous precedent for the UK phone market - let's make an attractive "must have" handset and see how much we can fleece people who are keen to get one.
 
So much dislike for the ROKR. I used one for a few months (before trading it for a RAZR) and thought it was a nice phone with a very nice speaker(s). And that vibe/tone feature was surprisingly nice on the hand.

Course I'm still so much in love with my old RAZR that it's still holding me back from an iPhone.
 
Surely having hardware and software teams separated goes right against this philosophy. :confused:

Not really. The teams still had all the information they really needed, they just didn't know every intricate detail. Even though there were individual person who did not know everything, Apple as a whole did know.
 
Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/3B48b Safari/419.3)

I wonder what they tried with Purple 1 and why it eventually was abandoned. This is really interesting stuff.
 
I really don't think the iPhone is that special, I was more productive with my treo and now since I switched to the iPhone I miss my treo. I cannot download email attachments and save locally on the phone. It takes 3 clicks to get to the number pad, so making a phone call can be a bit more tasking than using any other phone. Copy / Paste ? Send a file wirelessly from one iPhone to another? video recording? Ability to edit a word or excel document?

The iPhone still lacks some serious software upgrades to become a productive business phone.

Then go get your treo back. The iOhone is a smart phone for the general public, not for the CEOs.... yet
 
Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/3B48b Safari/419.3)

I wonder what they tried with Purple 1 and why it eventually was abandoned. This is really interesting stuff.

I think it was an iPod with phone functionality thrown in. No where near as revolutionary as 2007s iPhone. It probably still would have sold though.
 
Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/3B48b Safari/419.3)

I wonder what they tried with Purple 1 and why it eventually was abandoned. This is really interesting stuff.

The first iPhone attempts came out horribly deformed. Eventually they ended up with Purple 2, a perfect hybrid of iPod and phone...
 

Attachments

  • clones.gif
    clones.gif
    69.5 KB · Views: 136
There are lots of things like that - look at the bicycle chain and gear system - its amazingly crappy, and over 150 years old, but there is no impetus to change it.

Actually, the number of patents on bicycle transmissions would make your head spin. People have been working on trying to find an alternative to the chain driven bicycle forever. There are plenty of commuter bikes that now have internal transmission but you won't see any of this on high end bikes. Unfortunately with less than a 1/2 horsepower motor (your legs) all these fancy high tech transmissions suck when compared to the efficiency of a chain and cogs. Sometimes there is a reason why a technology sticks around.
 
Only $150 mil for development of the iPhone? That's the bargain of the century...and just imagine what the iPhone and cell industry could look like five years from now, if you use the music industry as a guideline to gauge how much things changed five years after the iPod's intro.

You mean crazy CEOs will be pulling even crazier ideas out of a hat to combat all-time-low sales and companies on the verge of bankruptcy?

:D
 
I really don't think the iPhone is that special, I was more productive with my treo and now since I switched to the iPhone I miss my treo. I cannot download email attachments and save locally on the phone. It takes 3 clicks to get to the number pad, so making a phone call can be a bit more tasking than using any other phone. Copy / Paste ? Send a file wirelessly from one iPhone to another? video recording? Ability to edit a word or excel document?

The iPhone still lacks some serious software upgrades to become a productive business phone.

Good one! oh wait. You really mean that you think a treo is in the same league as the iphone? Well I guess you are write. And my old AMC Gremlim was a car just like a BMW 5 series.
 
In February 2005, Jobs secretly met with Cingular executives, including Stan Sigman. Jobs presented a three-part message to the execs:

- Apple had the technology to build something truly revolutionary, "light-years ahead of anything else."
- Apple was prepared to consider an exclusive arrangement to get that deal done.
- But Apple was also prepared to buy wireless minutes wholesale and become a de facto carrier itself.

I can imagine how much bull**** he had to feed them with his 'reality distortian field.' Steve Jobs is the greatest spin doctor to have ever walked the face of the earth. If theres anyone greater at exaggerating a product, please give me a name.

Also, the iphone is hardly revolutionary. Late, is what it is, the only thing its got thats revolutionary is a multi-touch interface, and lack of tactile keys, which makes it a crappy product. Also, aesthetically, it looks like ass, hardly represents the usual 'apple' look. Jonathan Ive must be glad that at least some people are dumb enough to buy an iphone and ipod touch.
 
The fact that there has not been a great deal of software updates since (minor ones), tells me that something nice is brewing there, and hopefully we should see a very tasty update next week... Fingers crossed anyway.

Agreed rather than seeing a new phone we are more likely to see a new update with loads more features...........
 
Good one! oh wait. You really mean that you think a treo is in the same league as the iphone? Well I guess you are write. And my old AMC Gremlim was a car just like a BMW 5 series.

Right.

Anyway, yes, the iphone lacks a lot of things, you know.......the things he mentioned? Or are you just delusional?

i see this brought up all the time but seriously editing a spreadsheet would be the last thing i would want to do on a phone/pda.


Correct, editing a spreadsheet or document would be pretty stupid considering the iphone doesnt have tactile keys.

Fail.
 
I really don't think the iPhone is that special, I was more productive with my treo and now since I switched to the iPhone I miss my treo. I cannot download email attachments and save locally on the phone. It takes 3 clicks to get to the number pad, so making a phone call can be a bit more tasking than using any other phone. Copy / Paste ? Send a file wirelessly from one iPhone to another? video recording? Ability to edit a word or excel document?

The iPhone still lacks some serious software upgrades to become a productive business phone.

I love my iPhone, but I do wonder sometimes how long it would take me to dial 112 in case on emergency versus a normal phone, or if the screen developed a dead zone. Hopefully this will not occur and I'm just weird, lol.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.