The Panther Thread

Discussion in 'PowerPC Macs' started by AmazingHenry, May 20, 2017.

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  1. gavinstubbs09 macrumors 65816

    gavinstubbs09

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    #51
    I'm happy to hear that :)

    I have great things planned, as a matter of fact I am starting groundwork on the new site as we speak. Won't be public for a while though!
     
  2. AmazingHenry thread starter macrumors 65816

    AmazingHenry

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    #52
    Great to hear! If you make a new site with Tiger and Panther sections it will be my #1 PPC software source. The reason I don't use it now is because my only PPC is my iMac G4 with Tiger.
     
  3. G4fanboy macrumors regular

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    #53
    uControl
    http://gnufoo.org/ucontrol/

    uControl is a keyboard remapper and more. Meaning, those useless keys can now be reused, remapped, or reduced. Unix hackers will be pleased to remap the caps lock key to the control key. Indeed, that was the reason uControl was originally created; however, it has since evolved into a fairly sophisticated means of not only remapping modifier keys, but providing a virtual scroll wheel for track pad users, providing real function keys for laptop users, swapping the right and left mouse button for left handed users, and even providing a one handed typing feature for those with disabilities.

    http://www.macattorney.com/panther.html
     
  4. AmazingHenry thread starter macrumors 65816

    AmazingHenry

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    #54
    Added in links for all the software in top apps. But from now on, remember that you can edit the post yourself... it'll make it much easier for everyone if you edit the app into the post as soon as you share it. ;)
     
  5. AphoticD macrumors regular

    AphoticD

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    #55
    Mac-On-Mac - PowerPC Virtualization - PANTHER EXCLUSIVE
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac-on-Mac
    https://sourceforge.net/projects/maconmac/

    mac-on-mac.png

    Mac-On-Mac allows full-speed virtualization on Mac OS X 10.3 Panther and supports booting multiple virtual machines with support for 10.0 - 10.3.x, Mac OS 9, OpenDarwin and Linux/PPC.

    This will only run on Panther and is not compatible with Tiger or Leopard.

    Mac-On-Mac-On-Panther-With-Puma-And-MacOS9.jpg

    Tested installing and running Mac OS X 10.1.4 (Puma retail CD set) and Mac OS 9.2.2 (MacOS9Lives Universal ISO) each with 256MB RAM assigned to them on a PowerBook G4 1.5Ghz (5,6) with 2GB RAM and a 60GB OWC Legacy SSD. Both run perfect at the same time on this Mac. Performance appears to be full speed with only some minor visual flickering and tearing. This is pre-"Core Image" and display via an old version of X11, so I guess it is to be expected.

    Boot times were:
    Mac OS 9.2.2 - 23 seconds from clicking Boot to the Launcher popping up.
    Mac OS X 10.1.4 - 24 seconds from clicking Boot to the Dock and menu clock appearing.

    For reference, on this PowerBook, boot trials today were:
    • Panther 10.3.9 - 49 seconds
    • Tiger 10.4.11 - 46 seconds
    • Leopard 10.5.8 - 48 seconds
    (from pressing the power button, to finishing loading of the Dock and menu clock).

    Notes / Known Issues:
    1. Networking and Audio don't work. I'll try digging into the config some more.
    2. Requires X11 to be installed on Panther (it's in the Optional Installs folder on Panther Disc 2).
    3. Set PATH=$PATH:/usr/X11R6/bin and DISPLAY=:0.0 in ~/.bashrc, otherwise X11 won't do much.
    4. I couldn't get Debian 8 Jessie (PPC) to boot off the iso or from a pre-installed qemu-ppc image. The screenshots on the SourceForge page show Debian with Kernel 2.4.7 (3.0 Woody?). I'll keep playing around with it.

    Another very cool reason to run Panther!

    -AphoticD
     
  6. z970mp, Jul 19, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017

    z970mp macrumors regular

    z970mp

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    #56
    Is it supposed to open in Leopard?

    Because I've got success on that front.

    -

    Nevermind, the OS never actually launches.

    I guess that's what it's supposed to do on this OS when it "doesn't work". My bad.

    Well, at least I saved countless people from going to the trouble of actually testing it for themselves.
     
  7. AphoticD, Jul 20, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017

    AphoticD macrumors regular

    AphoticD

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    #57
    I tried the same on Tiger and it refuses to run. It loads a Kext which is only compatible with Panther. The source code is there, so maybe it's just a matter of recompiling the kexts? But, I highly doubt it.

    Your 970MP won't boot Panther either. Tiger 10.4.2 was the earliest option.

    On the Dual-Core (and Quad) G5s, your best bet for virtualization is either QEMU KVM (ppc64) or Mac-On-Linux / MOL KVM on a current Linux distro (Lubuntu and MATE are solid on the G5s). I have Debian 8 and Fedora 25 Server running at incredible speeds via QEMU/KVM on a Dual Core 2.3Ghz 970MP with 16GB of RAM under Ubuntu MATE 16.04.2. They both run headless as production / testing web servers on the G5 (11,2). I can easily access the VMs via SSH or virsh (or cockpit on Fedora, which is a really nice web interface).

    The trick I found with getting a massive speed boost out of running Linux VMs on G5 hardware is to bypass the typical mac99 (G4) option and run the VMs as PReP (PowerPC Reference Platform) 64-bit, this allows SMP / multi-processor support. Maximum memory I can assign to each VM is 1792MB (a limitation of the ppc64 user-space I guess)

    Unfortunately, with QEMU KVM, Mac OS X guests are limited to 1 CPU and run much, much slower. But compatibility and stability are both good. You can effectively run Leopard in this environment, but it's less of a run and more of a saunter or an amble...

    MOL KVM will run Panther and Tiger surprisingly fast, but Leopard or Mac OS 9 won't boot.

    As a test, I tried getting MOL KVM up and running on a PBG4 under MATE. It was slow, tedious and crash happy. Requiring KVM to be re-compiled as a kernel module and recompiling the kernel to disable SMP on the 74xx's.

    I am surprised at how much quicker (and lighter) the Panther Mac-On-Mac virtualization is compared to the Linux based options. They were onto something good here. It's a shame development stopped 12 years ago!
     
  8. philgxxd macrumors newbie

    philgxxd

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    Malaga, Spain
    #58
    Thanks a lot AphoticD for the hint and the great documentation.
    I actually have installed Panther on a PB 1.5Ghz so I'm interested in how performs OS9 on this compared to the apple classic emulation though networking and sound don't work.
     
  9. z970mp macrumors regular

    z970mp

    Joined:
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    USA
    #59
    How did you know I had a 970mp? You clever thing you. ;)

    How about Q? Will Q run OK on G5s? It's on the PPCAppStore.

    This is another reason why I'm still going to try Linux on this sucker, it's got mountains of compatibility with lots of stuff.

    -

    I just realized I gave the machine away in my username and signature.

    Oh.
     
  10. AphoticD, Jul 20, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017

    AphoticD macrumors regular

    AphoticD

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    #60
    No problem. I've tried installing the tuntaposx driver (for Panther) to get networking going, but even though the driver loads the TUN interface, Mac-On-Mac can't seem to find it. Reading through the original Mac-On-Mac website (via archive.org), states that sound, networking and USB were not working in the alpha version.

    There is source code for a CoreAudio driver filed at the sourceforge page, so maybe audio was closer than the other features. I'll keep playing around with it anyway.
    --- Post Merged, Jul 20, 2017 ---
    Just a hunch...

    The old build of Q on the PPCAppStore is ancient and painfully slow. If you do want to run Qemu on Mac OS X (which Q was based on), you can build and install version 2.4.0 via MacPorts or Tigerbrew. (Both package management systems are Tiger and Leopard compatible)

    I had better luck getting the MacPorts version of QEMU to build. But it took me a while to track down the older version's Portfile (see attached zip for your convenience).

    Install MacPorts, download and unzip the qemu-2.4.0-Portfile.zip directly in your home directory (not in Desktop or Downloads), then fire up Terminal and cd ~/qemu && sudo port install

    There's a good Qemu for OSX guide over at emaculation.com. The guide assumes you're going to run OS9 as a guest and it's written from the perspective of running on an Intel macOS Sierra host. Mac OS 9 refuses to boot in QEMU 2.4.0 for PPC/Mac. But you'll get a handle on the syntax and the approach on setting up guest OSes.

    Yes, Ubuntu Mate PPC runs great on the 970MP. AND you'll be able to build the current version of QEMU (2.9.0) with all the advancements in KVM and guest operating system compatibility.

    I've been tinkering with Linux/PPC since MkLinux on a NuBus PPC601 from before the turn of the century and even still, I found jumping back into Linux with my G5s and MATE last year was a bit of a steep learning curve. The x86 Linux world has it so much easier in terms of compatibility and support. You'll find a lot of PPC specific issues are just not documented online in the usual (reachable) places.

    Anyway, Happy trailblazing!
     

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  11. z970mp macrumors regular

    z970mp

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    #61
    I was talking about Lubuntu 16.04, but OK...

    Thanks for the help. I'm sure that was of assistance to other people, as well. :)
     
  12. AphoticD, Jul 20, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017

    AphoticD macrumors regular

    AphoticD

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    #62
    Lubuntu and MATE both have the same Ubuntu base, which I believe stems from Debian. From what I've seen, they are each very similar in terms of compatibility and issues on PowerPC. My understanding is that the 16.04 series of releases are the last of the long term support (LTS) distros for our Macs as Debian have officially dropped the PPC flavour.
     
  13. z970mp macrumors regular

    z970mp

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    #63
    Ah well.

    What will you do, right? At least they'll keep being reliable.
     
  14. zappaesque macrumors newbie

    zappaesque

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    Jun 10, 2017
    #64
    For those who haven't tried, this doesn't work under Tiger. The video will start to load, then stop with a "not found" error.
     
  15. Dronecatcher macrumors 68000

    Dronecatcher

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    Jun 17, 2014
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    Lincolnshire, UK
    #65
    Playing 3gp from the browser was working in Tiger but stopped July last year - see here:

    https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/realplayer-vs-quicktime.1980864/

    I couldn't find what the issue was - I know my vintage Nokia still plays 3gp Youtube via my wifi and cellular.
     
  16. LightBulbFun macrumors 6502a

    LightBulbFun

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  17. z970mp macrumors regular

    z970mp

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    #67
    Although the image only appeared in the reply box, that's what I do when I get bored, too. :D
     

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  18. zappaesque, Jul 23, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017

    zappaesque macrumors newbie

    zappaesque

    Joined:
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    #68
    Hmm for some reason, it doesn't work under Panther for me either. I get the same "not found" error with Quicktime 7.4.1. This is on my original blue iMac.

    Picture 1.jpg
     
  19. MysticCow macrumors 6502a

    MysticCow

    Joined:
    May 27, 2013
    #69
    Panther thread is STILL going strong!

    Remember not to post links to stuff that can still be under copyright. Linking a search engine result is about the only way I know to skirt the rule, but even that isn't a wonderful thing.

    Stay strong. No pirates. Use Panther! :D
    --- Post Merged, Jul 27, 2017 ---
    PS--Why didn't they ever take Mac on Mac beyond 10.3? I know later versions break it, but was it unfixable?
     
  20. z970mp macrumors regular

    z970mp

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    #70
    It's amazing Classila can even work with YouTube *at all*.

    Come on, there's something right?
    --- Post Merged, Jul 27, 2017 ---
    Well, what did you expect? We're resilient suckers!
     
  21. MysticCow macrumors 6502a

    MysticCow

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    #71
  22. Dronecatcher macrumors 68000

    Dronecatcher

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    Lincolnshire, UK
    #72
    That stopped working a few years ago - the Japanese author stopped updating the app as Youtube moved on...
     
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