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The Quality of your MBPr screens - feedback please!
- Thread starter iViking
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Spot on so far, initially checked for dead pixels, I am not intentionally looking for issue, just using the machine. Sometimes I will compare the rMBP to one of my other Mac`s barring calibration I see no problems, with the Retina coming out on top every time. All in all the best display I have used in a portable and a lot of externals.
Color LCD
LP154WT1-SJA1
Color LCD
LP154WT1-SJA1
You can't calibrate the white point on an LCD...
Either way, the retina screens on both models I had so far look terribly yellow compared to every other device I own (previous MacBook Pro, iPhone 4, Nikon DSLR screen, etc..). Apple is now sending me a 3rd replacement.
So I got to go to an Apple store yesterday and was able to look at a handful of rMBPs. It was obvious that all of the screens there had this issue to one extent or another, and the darkening/yellowing was always in the same spot: on the left-hand side and more obvious towards the bottom, just like on mine. Some, I think, looked ever-so-slightly better than others, and although I couldn't swear to it, after arriving back home and examining mine again, I'm convinced mine looks worse than any of the examples I saw in the store today. It's probably just all in my head, though, and a combination of "grass is greener" + that deceptive Apple store lighting.So I'm not sure I really feel like going through the hassle of getting it replaced, since the chances are good that I'll just get another one that looks similar to my eyes.
One interesting thing that came out of the trip, though, is that there was one laptop in particular that seemed to be the best of the bunch. I only arrived at this conclusion, however, after a hurried 30-second examination of it...the store was about to close and I was being shooed out. I got curious, so I decided to see if there was even a possibility that Apple was, in fact, already using two different models/manufacturers of screens in rMBP. And I struck paydirt: using my discovery on the "best" display there, I got a different model number out of it than the one that the units with LG/Philips panels in them (such as mine) are reporting: LSN154YL01001 on this one vs. LP154WT1-SJA1 for the LG/Philips. So that's something.
I only had time to look at 4 laptops total out of the 6 on the table; as I mentioned, I was pressed for time. The other 3 were all LG/Philips displays. Besides the seemingly-more-consistent whites on the newly-discovered panel type, I couldn't really spot any other differences in quality -- color saturation, contrast/blacks, maximum brightness, etc. all seemed to be roughly equal to the LG. But again, I only looked at it for a very brief time. Alas, I doubt I will be able to go back anytime soon to do a more thorough investigation...the closest Apple store to me is 90 minutes away, and I don't go up that way much. But if another opportunity comes my way...
-- Nathan
EDIT: Hey Davieis, it occurs to me that it might be interesting to check the panel type on your machine, to verify that it is also an LG/Philips panel, and then run the same check on your friends' machine. It would also be fascinating if it turned out that there was a correlation between it being LG or non-LG and the whole "image persistence"/ghosting issue. If so, I'd say that the non-uniformity of the whites on the LG are definitely the lesser of the two evils...
I will check them out and report back.
Very discouraging to read that. I am in a holding pattern, seems like I shouldn't order for now with all these display issues
If you use anything different from native on an LCD you get a very large decrease in quality.
Would love to hear your opinion on my screen guys. Had to return the first one because the ghosting was a lot worse.
So after receiving my second retina, here are some images I tried to take displaying the ghosting. Was hoping to see if you guys think this is normal/acceptable due to the IPS display, or if I should call Apple again and ask for another one.
The website I left on the screen was, http://flightaware.com. You can see from the images some of the outlines of the "grid" layout from the website. Keep in mind, it's only under perfect conditions and if you get up close to the screen, but nonetheless, here's the pics.
Actual picture
http://f.cl.ly/items/0001401W121d2y3m2b0M/og.jpg
Bumped up contrast so it is easier to see "ghosting"
http://f.cl.ly/items/1B2h0e3H0a1p1d19350j/high-contrast.jpg
So after receiving my second retina, here are some images I tried to take displaying the ghosting. Was hoping to see if you guys think this is normal/acceptable due to the IPS display, or if I should call Apple again and ask for another one.
The website I left on the screen was, http://flightaware.com. You can see from the images some of the outlines of the "grid" layout from the website. Keep in mind, it's only under perfect conditions and if you get up close to the screen, but nonetheless, here's the pics.
Actual picture
http://f.cl.ly/items/0001401W121d2y3m2b0M/og.jpg
Bumped up contrast so it is easier to see "ghosting"
http://f.cl.ly/items/1B2h0e3H0a1p1d19350j/high-contrast.jpg
Intresting to see. I hope mine has a good white point. I have however changed whitepoint in calibrations in the past and haven't really seen any quality issues.
It is clearly noticeable. If it bothers you, you should return it.
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For small corrections, sure, but I have to change the slider from 6500K to 8500K to get an acceptable white point. After such a large correction, the brightness of the display is completely lost.
Can you cite anything to explain or support that? I certainly haven't come across it in any documentation I've used, it is a setting that some adjust in coordination with professional equipment, and Google searches certainly aren't turning up information to explain what you've written. And I certainly don't see the 'large decrease in quality' unless you're taking the range outside reasonable boundaries.
Although it does need to be pointed out that messing around with the advanced calibration settings without knowing what one is doing is a great way to get results which aren't expected or may poorly represent colors in the likes of photographs, and the white point is adjusted even less frequently. Usually a standard profile is simply selected. It's especially easy to mess up the contrast. But if someone's not a color professional and they're simply concerned about the white point of their monitor on a subjective level, there's really nothing stopping them from launching Expert mode, basically leaving everything alone, and very slightly tweaking the white point on their display.
That said, I wonder how many people here are aware that it isn't unusual for there to be subtle out-of-the-box white balance differences between monitors on different devices? It is especially noticeable when place your various devices next to each other, and probably all the more so when comparing something like an iPhone to a desktop computer. It seems like sometimes people mix up their preferences on white balance (especially when comparing devices side-by-side) with an expectation of what is or is not broken, and in doing so, frequently side with an expectation that cooler is better.
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I agree that you should expect subtle differences in white point between screens, even of the same model. I believe this is in part due to the fact that LED manufacturing hasn't yet gotten to the point where every white LED emits the exact same wavelength of color...there is some variation. You should be able to adjust for the difference at least somewhat with calibration.
The big problem is when a single LCD panel doesn't have a uniform white point across the whole display: part of the display is yellow, another part of the same display is pink, etc. You can't calibrate only portions of a display in software. It's all or nothing. So people with a display where there is non-uniformity of color across the surface of the display are out of luck: calibration CANNOT fix this.
-- Nathan
The big problem is when a single LCD panel doesn't have a uniform white point across the whole display: part of the display is yellow, another part of the same display is pink, etc. You can't calibrate only portions of a display in software. It's all or nothing. So people with a display where there is non-uniformity of color across the surface of the display are out of luck: calibration CANNOT fix this.
-- Nathan
Nope, sorry. I've seen a lot of them now, and they're roughly half good, half crap.
This, I think, puts the second page of this thread to rest. As useful as calibration is, you cannot set different white points for different areas of the screen. As you said, it's all or nothing.
My personal experience has been pretty bumpy with these retina MacBooks... I'm on my 4th laptop and all have had different issues. The first had a uniformly pink screen, the second made creaking noises around the palmrest, the third had a pink corner, and this 4th one is pink on the top-left corner, and yellow on the bottom-right.
I'm beginning to think that a lot of people who purchase these (& iPad 3's) also have these minor issues & just don't see them in their day to day use. I noticed that a couple of friends with iPad 3's had uneven backlight or a gradient and they swear they can't see anything. Of the four or so people I had give third-party perspectives on my rmbp, I had 2 say they saw the pink corners and 2 say they saw a uniformly white screen.
I'm getting to a first name basis with some of the apple store folks here... they must think I'm OCD or something
I really wish someone would write some calibration software that would let you apply a mask, like airbrush the part of the screen that isn't uniform and apply different settings to that mask. You'd lose some gamut but it would produce a generally better look.
Oh man... get off your high horse already.
How do you think adjusting the white point on an LCD works?
One of the first things I found on google: http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/monitor-calibration.htm - "While many LCD's have a color temperature option, the back light for these displays always has a native color temperature. Any deviation from this native value will end up reducing your display's color gamut."
Sure, subtle-out-of-the-box differences are noticeable but not a problem. I am talking about a deviation of over 2000 Kelvin. This is very far outside of the acceptable range. Plus there is a gradient from left to right. This is not normal for a > $3000 piece of equipment.
I promise you that you're exactly right. I've now confirmed this with virtually every family member and friend who has purchased the new iPad. They literally cannot see anything wrong with their screens, and most of their screens are really bad.
This is why there hasn't been a "screengate" ala "antennagate". It's a problem that Apple is very much aware of, but they don't have to acknowledge it because most of their customers aren't.
I wonder if it has much to do with your hue discrimination ability. If you can score 100% on this test (as I can), you probably see bad screens everywhere you go:
http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77
I read somewhere that some people are colorblind to these changes in hue. It is very discouraging, however, that Apple is letting it's QC slip like this. Lower end models have had these display issues for years now, but I find it hard to take that their Pro line is suffering from it as well.
And the iMacs *still* have uneven yellow screens. The problem that was supposedly fixed never really was. I think it was just dumb luck that it got media attention in the first place - it tagged along with the more sensational flickering issue.
Are you always rude in response to someone when they ask you for more information? Or do you just assume that everyone is trying to be rude or dismissive? Or simply trying to prove you wrong?
You said 'very large decrease in quality' which (aside from not being supported by that article) is something which I hadn't heard before myself, so I was curious to find out more. And I completely missed any point where you said the screen was off by 2000 kelvin, when nobody should try to correct through calibration. And I wasn't finding something to support that in Google. If that's the case, I want to know, but don't take it personally, I want to know for a reason other than 'someone on the internet said so'.
A deviation of 2000 kelvin is far beyond what I expected and yeah, I'd be sending it right back to Apple myself. That would be unacceptable. I wasn't sure what to expect because some of the white balance issues people are seeing when they compare screens from different devices are far from 2000 kelvin in difference, and would frequently fall into the following explanation from the same article you just linked to:
"For this reason, it's generally recommended to leave your LCD at its default color temperature unless you have a good reason to set it otherwise. Your eye will adjust to this native color temperature, and no warm or cool hue will be apparent unless it is being directly compared."
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I have the same issue. It's really noticeable when I compare it to the thunderbolt display I bought at the same time. I can't improve things by calibration
Is this normal? I was wondering about comparing to other rmbp in the shops. Perhaps these screens are just warmer (yellower) by default.
Well, I'd actually be comforted to know they were all yellow... the problem is that some of mine have been pink as well, and others both pink & yellow
The first RMBP had severe ghosting (I could read the text from minimized windows) and therefore I asked for a replacement. The replacement arrived today and has 5 dead pixels scattered throughout. I'll be calling Apple tomorrow about a second replacement. If they can't get it right the third time, I may be giving up on the RMBP and settling for a 13" Air this cycle.