The sole reason for the T2 ...

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by giffut, Oct 5, 2018.

  1. giffut macrumors 6502

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    #1
    ... is now officially acknowledged:

    https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/...vent-independent-repair?utm_source=reddit.com

    This took a lot of time to implement in advance, first in software then in hardware. Apple did it in iOS and their iPhone/iPad hardware first. Now all the little quirks and hints, the hard to pin down behaviors in iOS and macos hardware and software over the last couple of years I experienced and learned from others make perfectly sense and are explainable. More and more necessary hacks by us for things they broke intentionally by software, like most recently eGPU service for Tthunderbolt 1/2 macs. The declining hardware quality and quantity, while rising prices and tying additional service costs to bind you economically for a steady stream of income.

    This is the damning indisputable evidence. Lock in to the software and hardware platform, maximizing profits by any means. They regard extreme high thresholds of profits more important than any user satisfaction or longevity of service. All their proclamations about those values, including recycling and ecological responsibility - mere words to calm us. But they don´t mean it at all.

    They became complacent and feel entitled.

    Therefore there can be no trust, no goodwill left by any means.

    This is so sad.
     
  2. leman macrumors G3

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    #2
    The reason for T2 is to keep Mac "special". Apple's business premise was always "we are different". Apple needs features that differentiate it from the rest. Other companies have successfully implemented what used to make Mac special in the past: excellent trackpad, hiDPI screen, compact form factor, minimalist design.

    T2 is a great move IMO — it is only something that Apple with its tight integration of software and hardware can pull off. There is great benefit for the customer (safety, performance, efficiency), and of course also to Apple, since — as you point out — it more tightly binds the customer to Apple for service. Frankly, I don't see any issue with the later. Third-party (non-authorised) repairs have always been problematic with Apple. If you want "freedom of repair", you don't choose Apple. I would never trust a non-Apple authorised service provider with my stuff anyway.

    And your rant on "values" and "responsibility" has no basis. Yes, they force you to do repairs at authorised providers only. And yes, they care about recycling and ecological responsibility. If anything, tight control of the entire infrastructure allows them to be more responsible to begin with.
     
  3. SoyCapitanSoyCapitan

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    #3
    Reason for T2 is so you don't end up with some logic board from Chinese company with embedded spyware chips. All companies will have to bake their own logic board controllers and firmware. The days of safe logic boards has gone. Customers have to be sure about every element of their computer/phone/camera/etc now.
     
  4. Ma2k5 macrumors 68020

    Ma2k5

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    #4
    That is not the reason for the T2 chip...
     
  5. mdnz macrumors 6502

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    #5
    Yes China is putting spyware chips en masse in Macbook logic boards. This threat is of course a million times more worth than the ability to repair your own purchase yourself.

    /s
     
  6. Queen6 macrumors 604

    Queen6

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  7. Ma2k5 macrumors 68020

    Ma2k5

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    #7
  8. SoyCapitanSoyCapitan

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    #8
    I didn’t say MacBook logic boards. Sarcastic replies only work if they have equivalent smartness levels :p
    --- Post Merged, Oct 5, 2018 ---
    Watch what happens in the future when PC users and Fandroiders cry about their data leaks.
     
  9. Queen6 macrumors 604

    Queen6

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    #9
    Believe so, Apple just wants lock in it's customers, engineer and lockdown all it's appliances so it can milk the former to the max. Apple is simply now a very consumer hostile OEM, with little more than pleasant front to it.

    Q-6
     
  10. Ma2k5 macrumors 68020

    Ma2k5

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    #10
    i. Didn't address my response to back up his claim
    ii. Made some fact-less hyperbole about Windows/Android because, well, who knows
     
  11. leman macrumors G3

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    Oct 14, 2008
    #11
    Sorry, but when did you ever had that ability? It was always “official way only”. You people act as if Apple is taking away some essential freedom of yours. Being able to repair/butcher your laptop at the illegal garage shop hardly counts as “freedom”.
     
  12. Porkchop Sandwich macrumors regular

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    #12
    Once the item has been acquired, it is the owners choice to "repair/butcher" their laptop at whatever 'garage' the OWNER so chooses.

    What a concept!!
     
  13. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #13
    Actually it is, and we have laws on the books to protect those freedoms. Its no different then having GM force you to go their dealerships to fix a car, that is patently illegal.

    So having someone else or even myself repair my computer is illegal?
     
  14. Porkchop Sandwich macrumors regular

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    #14
    It's mind numbing (and a bit troubling) to see the blind allegiance some here on this site have for Apple.
     
  15. Queen6 macrumors 604

    Queen6

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    #15
    True, however that goes against the support and side with Apple at any cost narrative...

    Q-6
    --- Post Merged, Oct 5, 2018 ---
    Undoubtedly something drives such behaviour...

    Q-6
     
  16. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #16
    For what ever reason there are people in the world who will justify apple's actions and defend them to the bitter end; using logical arguments that make little sense, or accuse the person who complains of a problem.

    I remember the whole bendgate issue how folks minimized the issue saying it only affect 8 people (or something like that) Then the class action suit not only uncovered that apple knew about it the design flaw, but chose not to make a fix until the issues started piling up.

    The keyboard issue, folks defended apple up and down, saying it was the owners fault, or its wasn't as bad as it was being reported. Clearly its a design flaw so much so there's three class action suits, and apple instituted a repair program.
     
  17. leman macrumors G3

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    #17
    I thought that modern cars have proprietary interfaces etc. in place and you can't fix them without access to specific proprietary tools? I don't see how what Apple doing is different. Granted, I do not know the legal situation in the USA but what you say surprises me. In EU I can't service a car at a place that is not certified to service that brand.

    Why would it be illegal? It might be unsuccessful (if you don't have the tools and the knowledge) and the manufacturer would be in their right to deny any subsequent warranty if the repair was performed by someone without qualification. My point is that if you want your laptop repaired, most people do it at a professional shop. And a professional shop has the equipment and the training to repair Apple products. So in the end it only affects people who want to go cheap by using an unnoficial place, often bypassing taxes and using shady parts.
    --- Post Merged, Oct 5, 2018 ---
    Bah, way to declare yourself superior to people with different opinion. You talk of "logical arguments" while at the same time presenting a superfluous "problem" that you blow out of proportions.

    For all practical purposes, the repairability of Apple hardware is the same as it was 5 or 10 years ago. Unless you want your warranty voided, you go to an official Apple-certified repair center. When I buy a computer, the question whether I can repair it yourself isn't even on my list. It is covered by warranty and I have a good shop around the corner that will repair it for me within two days. So if unofficial repairs are not possible anymore because of tightened security, I don't care. The few Mac DYI enthiusiasts — I don't care about them either. I you like to tinker with hardware— Mac is not for you, and never was.
     
  18. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #18
    Your words not mine
     
  19. Porkchop Sandwich macrumors regular

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    #19
    There's nothing superior about it.

    Someone acquires a product, it's there's to do with what they would like, period. Let me break it down.

    1. Person buys item
    2. It belongs to that person who bought item and they are free to do with the item, well, whatever they would like provided it does not harm another person.

    simple.
     
  20. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #20
    I respect everyone's opinions and while I disagree with some I respect theirs. Of course there are blind follower where apple does no wrong and I tire of the same old argument that blames everyone but apple.

    Quite a number of people used that excuse for bendgate, the coating flaking off, the 2011 dGPU failure, the keyboard failure, the attenna issue (holding it wrong). People were quick to marginalize a person's issues, up until apple acknowledge there was a problem.

    So yeah, I guess I'm guilty of blowing the butterfly keyboard failure out of proportion, or that the T2 chip is causing KPs for many people (though its hopefully been resolved).
     
  21. Anarchy99 macrumors 6502a

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    #21

    on all other devices since forever should you have the skill. (soldering skills, basic electronics knowledge)

    in the apple world Since at least the G3's, heck my dad still runs my OG blueberry iMac with a iForce G4 daughtercard in it.

    many pre-intel macs had the CPU's on daughtercard's so you could either aftermarket 3rd party upgrade them, swap one out if something broke or just upgrade to a higher-end model down the road via ebay etc.

    after intel we had socketed CPUs in many macs, some intel imac's even used mxm GPU's (modular laptop GPU standard)
    not to mention the most common upgrades throughout the years even on macs...

    harddrives and ram.



    now if you dont mean those types of part-out and replace upgrades and repairs just look at youtuber's like Louis Rossmann, he is one of people that do board level repairs.


    Incorrect.

    because they are.

    what if i told you you had to take your car to the dealership? (apple retail store)

    how about you could only buy gas at this approved gas station? (app store)

    not to mention the forced iOS updates without downgrade possibilities.

    look at youtuber's like Louis Rossmann.
    he does board level repairs and has fixed hundereds and probably thousands of machines apple's "geniuses" have determined were unfixable.
    not to mention in some videos hes pointed out hardware faults and "fixes" apple themselves have done to refurbish certain boards.

    if anything the general apple technicians are the amateur "butcher's" only their "garage shop" is legal and they can get parts, whereas the average tech has to rely on 3rd party, unofficial refurbs etc.

    I wont lie as a computer tech myself i barely do any soldering (outside of PC power jack repairs) board level repair is not worth the time because microsoldering is timeconsuming for me and people are cheap.
    but its not like Louis Rossmann is the lone guy smart enough to fix these he's just one of the only ones that livestreams fixes, and even techs like me would benefit from right to repair legislation.


    your post really comes off as ignorant, i just hope the lawmakers looking at Right to Repair have more foresight then your showing.
     
  22. Porkchop Sandwich macrumors regular

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    #22
    What's next?

    Apple mandates that all of their laptops be stored in the Apple approved leather slip cover so that they can be assured no acidic humidity following a rain storm doesn't penetrate the innards and wreak havoc upon the item they are entitled to make more money off of? I mean by golly, Apple must protect its interests after all so that they can afford to bring product to market in the manner its most loyal customers expect. Seems reasonable to me :rolleyes:
     
  23. leman, Oct 5, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2018

    leman macrumors G3

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    #23
    Way to twist the argument and attack me on something I never said. We are talking about "Apple is banning unofficial repairs" problem here.


    ... and failing your warranty. Wha you say is irrelevant to virtually every Apple user save for the very few who do have the skill and also want to invest their time. Personally, even if I had the skill, I would always go to a service provider, simply because its cheaper and less bother for me.


    Oh, right, Rossmann. The guy who makes money running a youtube channel where he can tell you selective "facts" about things.

    Let me ask you this: do you genuinely think that such approach makes sense economically? Would Rossman be able to make a living if he were to invest significant time analysing every case he has been given? How many machines can an expert repair this way per day? 2? 3? 4? How much would one need to charge for repair for this much expert involvement? When you look at all these repair gurus: they are not making money by actually repairing stuff. They are either showing it off on youtube and making money via monetisation (like Rossman), or they sell merchandise (iFixit).
    --- Post Merged, Oct 5, 2018 ---
    I have no idea what this "Right to Repair" you refer to is, but nobody denying it your repair. Just that people who carry out the repair and charge money for it have the proper certification. This is the only thing. Knowing that the machine has to pass Apple's security check gives me additional insurance that the repair service won't cheat me and use counterfeit parts or do otherwise shabby work. If anything, I see it as a move that protects the customer. Sure, if they raise the repair prices as a consequence — that will be a problem, and that is when we customers should unite to Apple their place. But right now its still the old "they are locking down everything" song that we have been hearing for last 10 years and that still didn't happen.

    I understand that you are concerned with the "personal right to repair", but as I said before, I don't see it as an issue. The group of people who are skilled enough (and willing) to do these kinds of repairs on their own hardware is so negligible that their interests barely register on the public level.

    P.S. By the way, I find it absolutely hilarious how US people tend to prioritise such completely irrelevant aspects of "freedom" like gun ownership or the 'freedom" to tinker, while at the same time opposing universal healthcare, fair labour conditions, food safety regulations and net neutrality. You know, things that really matter and make a huge impact for everyone's freedom as member of society.

    --- Post Merged, Oct 5, 2018 ---
    Sure, but you forgot an important point 3.

    3. The manufacturer of the said item cannot guarantee that the item will be working after you have done "whatever you like" to it.

    I think this is rather common sense, no?
     
  24. SDColorado Contributor

    SDColorado

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    #24
    The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act prohibits warrantors from conditioning warranties on the consumer's use of a replacement product or repair service identified by brand or name and conditions cannot be placed on a part or service being termed unauthorized. Nor can they prevent you from opening your device, regardless of how many stickers they put on it saying warranty void if removed.

    As for cars, you can take it anywhere you wish for the service and there is no requirement to use genuine OEM parts either. You can also do the work yourself if you wish. None of that will void the warranty unless the manufacturer can show that the work that was performed directly caused a failure.

    In short, if you do your own oil changes and the rear differential in your car fails, the manufacturer can not void the warranty on your vehicle due to this and the manufacturer can not show any direct correlation between you changing the oil and the differential failing and must repair it under warranty.
     
  25. Porkchop Sandwich macrumors regular

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    #25
    Common sense says that if the owner of the item chooses to 'repair' the item themselves, while still under warranty, the warranty, extended by Apple, becomes null and void. Still, it's at the owners discretion how to care for the goods they have acquired. This might shock you but, not everyone needs a nanny to make sure they act in a manner that is in their own best interest.
     

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