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While i love Top Gear, i hope Tesla win.

The Trio are stuck in fantasy land and are unable/unwilling to contemplate the future.

This.

I'm really enthusiastic about the future of electric cars - not from a tree-hugging perspective, but from a performance angle. Top Gear's attitude to them is tiresome and annoying.

Instead of decent coverage, we just get more Porsche fanboyism. Dull, dull, dull.
 
As for the hydrogen vehicle that James May tested in the same program it looked great but there are huge problems producing and distributing hydrogen, those cars were a limited leases only test scheme and may never be commercially available.

I work in the oil industry, distribution of hydrogen wouldn't be a problem, the technology exists. And if I remember correctly, cars would need very little engine mods to cope (perhaps a lubricator such as fitted to LPG cars).

As for the producing problem... nuclear would be a clever use as they can produce hydrogen during the off-peak and that would mean they run constantly rather than the crazy situation in the UK where they ramp them up and down to meet demand, knocking lumps out of the boilers in the process. But I don't see nuclear being very popular after what's going on in Japan!
 
I still find TG entertaining, but I think their take on alternative energy in cars is a bit misinformed, or at least under-informed.

I work in the oil industry, distribution of hydrogen wouldn't be a problem, the technology exists. And if I remember correctly, cars would need very little engine mods to cope (perhaps a lubricator such as fitted to LPG cars).

That's my understanding as well. I think it's simply a matter of pumping the hydrogen into the intake manifold - you no longer need any of the components associated with the petro-fuel - injectors, lines, pump or tank. But don't quote me on that. ;)

Hydrogen powered internal combustion-engined cars behave essentiall;y just like gasoline or diesel cars.

As for the producing problem... nuclear would be a clever use as they can produce hydrogen during the off-peak and that would mean they run constantly rather than the crazy situation in the UK where they ramp them up and down to meet demand, knocking lumps out of the boilers in the process. But I don't see nuclear being very popular after what's going on in Japan!

Production is the biggest problem by far. The holy grail will be some sort of artificial leaf. Aty the moment hydrogen is too energy-intensive to manufacture, and fuel cells are not yet practical/economical for use in electric cars, even though cars like the Honda FXC Clarity prove that the concept works.
 
hydrogen has the advantage of being rather easy to implement on the car side with easy to construct compustion engines / electric motors powered by fuel cells
the only smaller difficulty AFAIK there is storing hydrogen i crash safe compressed containers. And even that is by now pretty much solved and could be implemented tommorow in full scale production

the real problem there is the infrastructre of refueling and more important hydrogen production. Redoing the the whole refueling infrastructure turns into a whole chicken and egg problem.

Just look at diesel availability in the US: it's the very same thing there:
few cars -> few refueling stations stock the fuel
few refueling stations -> people buy different engine


electricity simply has the advantage that the infrastructure is already there and pretty much everything can be easily turned into a "range extender" engine inside of a car or can be produced in renewable energy powerplants etc.

and recharging a plugin-electric car very likely depends on the power supply available:around here many private houses have 380V/32 connectors available in the cellar/garage
 
I've been to a lecture given by Peter Head of Arup... he's the Steve Jobs of the eco-engineering world, has his very own reality distortion field. Not only does he reckon all the answers exist, he's got the investors to see it through ("who are the pension companies going to invest in, the stock market?")

Persuasive guy, try and see one of his lectures if you can.
 
electricity simply has the advantage that the infrastructure is already there and pretty much everything can be easily turned into a "range extender" engine inside of a car or can be produced in renewable energy powerplants etc.

True. My only complaint is that electric motors go "buzz", not "vroom". In future decades, TG will have to keep a Ferrari V12 on hand to dub in engine sounds for all the electric cars they "review". :D
 
True. My only complaint is that electric motors go "buzz", not "vroom". In future decades, TG will have to keep a Ferrari V12 on hand to dub in engine sounds for all the electric cars they "review". :D

well not that "sound engineering" is a very reality even today: Porsche for example added additional 'useless' parts to their then newly water cooled 911 engine( don't pin me on the model) to make the engine sound more akin to the older air cooled 911
and that that was years ago
you can see similiar stuff from other brands especially with cars with adjustable 'sport settings' where they let fuel combust within the exhaust on purpose even :rolleyes:
or adjust valve timings to sound 'better'

the brand new Mercedes SLK for example takes up "engine vibrations directly from the engine" and then uses a "Sound Generator" in the leg room to bring the engine noise into the passenger compartment.. because otherwise you wouldn't hear the engine ... engine noise through speakers that is already reality today ... i guarantee you that some japanese manufacturer will offer downloadable engine noises for their electric cars within 15 years ;)
 
My only complaint is that electric motors go "buzz", not "vroom".

But would a "buzz" be better than a bad "vroom"? ;)

i guarantee you that some japanese manufacturer will offer downloadable engine noises for their electric cars within 15 years ;)

Undoubtedly... though I can't help but think that such a thing will last only as long as the generation that remembers the last combustion engines, and I'm sure that the generations that grow up in an all electric world will want whatever follows the electric car to sound like an electric car too.
 
I don't care if they want vroom-vroom over the car's speakers, but we have quite enough noise pollution as it is, thanks. :(

Adding devices to increase exterior noise sounds retarded to me.

Oh, and guys with cat pipes should be hauled out of their cars, and shot on sound. :p
 
takao said:
well not that "sound engineering" is a very reality even today

True. Engineers take great pains to eliminate all noise from the cabin, and then take further pains to reintroduce "desirable" noise to the cabin.

But would a "buzz" be better than a bad "vroom"? ;)

Good point. There are good "vrooms" and bad "vrooms". Besides, "vroom" isn't everything, and a good "buzz" might be just dandy. :D

Undoubtedly... though I can't help but think that such a thing will last only as long as the generation that remembers the last combustion engines, and I'm sure that the generations that grow up in an all electric world will want whatever follows the electric car to sound like an electric car too.

I think that the physical experience of the internal compbustion engine in cars is so ingrained in our car culture that it will never, ever disappear entirely - BUT when electrics do become ubiquitous your average driver won't miss it.

And while it robs us of the sound of Ferraris and Aston Martins, it also does away with all the morons who roar around in poorly-modified/gaudy cars with over-loud exhausts. So you have to take the bad with the good.
 
I think a lot of noise from cars come from the tyres on the road, not the engines, providing you have an appropriate exhaust. They're a lot quieter than they used to be, unless you have a boy racer exhaust :D
 
^ I agree, do electric cars have louder or quiter tyre noise due to the use of tyres with less rolling resistance than conventional tyres?

Most of time you only hear a car engine if it is being reved but I look forward to when traffic is quiter at night.
 
As a side note does anyone else wonder why cars have such huge tyres today? Does a basic Ford Focus really need 215 section tyres all round? Consider that the S2 Elise was originally specified with 175 section front tyres (yes it's lighter but also much higher performing).

I personally think that the style obsession with larger alloys and wider tyres has killed ride and handling in a lot of cars. I'm possibly in the market for a E46 M3 (as my Elise is going to be written off) and I'd prefer to buy one with the smaller, non-optional wheels as it'll ride and handle better...
 
(as my Elise is going to be written off)

I'm sorry to hear that fella... :eek: what the hell happened? Kind of hoping it was a heroic trackday crash... ;) rather than someone punting you off into the barriers like in your old Jag. :mad:
 
I'm sorry to hear that fella... :eek: what the hell happened? Kind of hoping it was a heroic trackday crash... ;) rather than someone punting you off into the barriers like your old Jag. :mad:

4 car "pile up" on the A12. I was in the middle so car smashed up front and back. I'm pretty much fine, just a bit of belly-bruising from the buckle on the harnesses. The car is a mess.
 
4 car "pile up" on the A12. I was in the middle so car smashed up front and back. I'm pretty much fine, just a bit of belly-bruising from the buckle on the harnesses. The car is a mess.

Good to hear you're okay... :)

What happened there? The Merc doesn't look to have been touched? :confused: Take it you stopped and was then punted into the car in front?

A sad sight though... :(

I almost crashed my brothers car in January, when we had that freakishly cold weather, coming down a hill to a roundabout and I couldn't stop, started flashing the beams and honking the horn to warn the car on the roundabout that I couldn't stop, and they just slowed to a stop, watching me slide towards them... :rolleyes: the tyres bit just as I entered the roundabout and I missed their car by cm's... :eek: they then proceeded to give me a bollocking, until I asked them what they thought I meant by the horn? :rolleyes:
 
Good to hear you're okay... :)

What happened there? The Merc doesn't look to have been touched? :confused: Take it you stopped and was then punted into the car in front?

Merc was stopped in the outside/fast lane just after a bend. The 306 could not stop and piled into the back of it. I couldn't quite stop and hit the back of the 306 and finally the Combo van went into the back of me. No idea why the Merc driver was stationary in the first place. Lack of damage to the Merc shows the relative strength of an old-school German metal vs old-school French cheese.
 
Merc was stopped in the outside/fast lane just after a bend. The 306 could not stop and piled into the back of it. I couldn't quite stop and hit the back of the 306 and finally the Combo van went into the back of me. No idea why the Merc driver was stationary in the first place. Lack of damage to the Merc shows the relative strength of an old-school German metal vs old-school French cheese.

The back end of the old-school French cheese doesn't look too bad considering the mess it's made of your car. :eek:
 
The back end of the old-school French cheese doesn't look too bad considering the mess it's made of your car. :eek:

Cheese is stronger than fibreglass :p There is no underlying structural damage to the Elise: it's all bodywork/lights/exhaust/cat. Unfortunately the front and rear bodywork along would cost about £5000 (in unpainted, unfitted form). The 306 dropped all it's coolant through a burst radiator (on the Elise this is a bit back from the front of the car so was undamaged)
 
Merc was stopped in the outside/fast lane just after a bend.

WTF... :eek:

Lack of damage to the Merc shows the relative strength of an old-school German metal vs old-school French cheese.

Quite amazing really... that said, I remember back in the '80's my dad crashed into the back of Golf GTI in his Ford Sierra (he was too busy watching the planes take off from Heathrow rather than watching for the car stopped ahead) and the front of the Sierra caved in... wasn't a scratch on the Golf apparently... the woman just laughed at the state of my dads car, then drove off. :p

robbieduncan said:
Unfortunately the front and rear bodywork along would cost about £5000 (in unpainted, unfitted form).

You know, considering the existing damage, if you get creative with a jigsaw and a Dremel, you've essentially got a Lotus 340R on your hands. ;)

Lord Blackadder said:
True. Engineers take great pains to eliminate all noise from the cabin, and then take further pains to reintroduce "desirable" noise to the cabin.

It reminds me of Lotus's experiments with noise-cancellation in their cars back in the '80's, there's certainly an argument that with todays technology, an active-noise effect would perhaps be a more preferred balance, rather than as you say the engineers attempts to engineer out all undesirable noise only to keep or even reintroduce the desirable sound.

There're times when I'd prefer no audible engine noise at all, like a recent 200 mile run up the M1 in a less than sonorous 4 cylinder for instance, that was tiring… especially on the ears, but it would've been equally tiring in a V12.

Equally there are times when I'd miss the noise, a country lane, B road thrash for one, where the sound of the engine is more than just an aural accompaniment, and is of far more use than a rev-counter (an entirely pointless and superfluous instrument in modern motoring if ever there was one).

Lord Blackadder said:
Good point. There are good "vrooms" and bad "vrooms". Besides, "vroom" isn't everything, and a good "buzz" might be just dandy.

I remember reading a road test of the Audi e-tron concept in the end of year Autocar from a couple of years back, and the Audi guy said that Audi were hoping to make theirs sound more industrial-turbine like, less like a fridge. Industrial-Turbine sounds like it's got potential to me. Lots of potential. :D In many ways, I suppose it'll be similar to driving a car with straight-cut gears, the whine of those often dominate the engine too.

Lord Blackadder said:
I think that the physical experience of the internal compbustion engine in cars is so ingrained in our car culture that it will never, ever disappear entirely - BUT when electrics do become ubiquitous your average driver won't miss it.

I don't think it'll ever disappear entirely, but two, three, four hundred years in the future I can't imagine they'll be anything other than a curiosity.

robbieduncan said:
As a side note does anyone else wonder why cars have such huge tyres today? Does a basic Ford Focus really need 215 section tyres all round? Consider that the S2 Elise was originally specified with 175 section front tyres (yes it's lighter but also much higher performing).

Increased weight… more weight, requires more contact patch. And of course… the all important... they make you car look faster/more powerful/cooler etc. :rolleyes:

When you think about about it, thinner tyres are less likely to aquaplane, are better in the snow, decrease rolling resistance & increase MPG, and like you said… the Elise wasn't exacty a tardy handler because of its relatively skinny boots. ;)

robbieduncan said:
I personally think that the style obsession with larger alloys and wider tyres has killed ride and handling in a lot of cars. I'm possibly in the market for a E46 M3 (as my Elise is going to be written off) and I'd prefer to buy one with the smaller, non-optional wheels as it'll ride and handle better...

Sell the optional alloys and buy a set of smaller ones? you might make yourself a few quid in the process too. ;)
 
well bigger tires have an advantage: breaking ;)

that said the obsession with 'rims' sure have turned bizarre. Similiar to 'sporty ride' which for a lot of car makers just means that it will break your back if your drive more than 15 minutes

and also the lack of any sense in regards to weight of the car until 1-2 years ago when they started to make new cars lighter or at least keep the weight of the model before
 
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