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Did you see Image retention on your rMBP with this test?


  • Total voters
    706
Sad stuff. Ordered my rMBP around a month ago and noticed some ghosting, but AppleCare wouldn't replace it for me. They insist on repairing it, which I can't do since I'm a student and need my computer every day.

Running the checkerboard test for 5 minutes on my LG screen produced an incredibly vivid ghosting. Pretty upset about all of this.
 
can someone upload a picture of the checker broad, because i cant seem to find a good one online to use for the test.

thanks!!!!
:apple:
 
Here is report that my 5th day of LG also have image retention problem. It didn't have this problem on 1st day. This is the 4th retina that I replaced.

1st: samsung with dead pixel
2nd samsung with backlight bleed 4 corners
3rd, samsung good screen, bottom case creaks
4th, LG, everything is great until 5th day when I run checker pic.

I ran checker pic test on both 3rd samsung and 4th LG (1st), it didn't have any image retention.

I saw some tech website starting to report this. So I will just return it and wait until the QC improves.
 
It's really scary to see that so many of you are having this problem. It's ridiculous that you have to replace a machine so many times. I don't actually think 40% of all the rMBP are faulty considering lots of people don't bother to vote but I'm still curious to see accurate statistics of this.
 
I have gone through 3 rMBP due to IR (all LG) which didn't show until few days later. None of them had dead pixels or anything just ghosting problem. Now when I tried to do another replacement, they said they can't do it anymore since this is within Apple's Standards. So I returned mine just today and got refund. Will try buying it again and hopefully will be fault free.
 
alright, 3rd day with my Mac (LG) screen and i just did the test for 15mins and i notice the IR after 15mins

i see the lines of the checkerboard in the grey screen.

so what should i do to get a replacement?

i bought this Mac from CDW and not sure what their policies are.

can i go to Apple store and get a replacement?
 
I just talked with another senior rep, and they're now calling this image retention "expected behavior". Really Apple?
 
It's not a rumor.

http://support.dell.com/support/top...47619677D4FB68B98B29&isLegacy=true&doclang=sv

http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/detail.page?DocID=HT051485

In my experience it's more noticeable on H-IPS panels, which is what most modern IPS panels tend to be.

It's funny that you claim it is common on H-IPS panels, because we have over 30 Dell U3011 in my research lab and they are all H-IPS displays and show no image retention, even when left displaying a static image for days at a time. I have never seen any LCD panel (IPS or otherwise) that exhibits image retention until now, and I've spent intimate time (read: weeks) with over 100 different panels.

It is clearly possible to create a panel which reduces this undesirable characteristic to be undetectable to the human eye and yet you seem to think it is "noticeable" on (what I can only assume to be) most if not all IPS displays and attempting to defend it as acceptable?

I think Displaymate (a company that specializes in testing display panels) has more credibility than some OEMs which doesn't even manufacture its own panels and maybe just propagating the original rumor.

Displaymate said:
"Ghost Images on the MacBook Pro Retina Display

Some users have been reporting ghost images or image retention on the MacBook Pro Retina Display. If you leave a bright static image up for a while and then switch to a uniform dark gray image you may see a ghost of the static image that may take up to 5 minutes to disappear.

This is not peculiar to IPS displays as some news reports have claimed. We've been testing for this effect for over 15 years and have seen it in all sorts of display technologies, including LCD, Plasma, and even CRTs - our DisplayMate products have specific test patterns to look for ghosting and image retention. In some cases it can take hours for the ghost to completely disappear. The ghost can be either a positive or negative image, and either color or monochrome depending on the cause.

It used to be much more common, but now it's unusual to see it in a display. The cause varies: an electrostatic build up, a chemical impurity build up, a thermal imbalance, or an electronic levels issue within the panel. Depending on the cause it can be better to leave the display on with a dark uniform image, on with a bright uniform image, or turn the display off all together.

We don't have a MacBook Pro Retina Display here to test yet, but there is absolutely no detectable ghosting on our new iPad 3, which is an even higher PPI IPS display.

This is most likely a start-up production problem that may already be fixed. "

Source: http://www.displaymate.com/news.htm
 
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It's funny that you claim it is common on H-IPS panels, because we have over 30 Dell U3011 in my research lab and they are all H-IPS displays and show no image retention, even when left displaying a static image for days at a time. I have never seen any LCD panel (IPS or otherwise) that exhibits image retention until now, and I've spent intimate time (read: weeks) with over 100 different panels.

It is clearly possible to create a panel which reduces this undesirable characteristic to be undetectable to the human eye and yet you seem to think it is "noticeable" on (what I can only assume to be) most if not all IPS displays?

I think Displaymate (a company that specializes in testing display panels) has more credibility than some OEMs which doesn't even manufacture its own panels and maybe just propagating the original rumor.



Source: http://www.displaymate.com/news.htm

I have two NEC 2490wuxis - fairly high end monitors, especially when they were new. They do exhibit some IR. Doing some research, almost everyone with those monitors sees some IR. I had a 24" iMac at work that exhibited IR (though admittedly this particular was bad enough that I would have returned it if it were mine).

The only IPS displays I have that don't exhibit any are my NEC 20WMGX2 LCDs. And those are gaming LCDs with AS-IPS displays, so I'd imagine they were designed to refresh a bit quicker.

And I would trust two computer manufacturers that do employee actual engineers over some guy on macrumors who's on a crusade against LG.

If you want some physics behind why image persistence occurs, read through this. Note that this article predates H-IPS displays. I do believe S-IPS were less susceptible to IR than other LCD technologies. But my experience with H-IPS (my own displays and several others) has been different.

That paper focuses more on "Super TN" panels, but the principles can apply to IPS displays. The implication is that minor changes in pixel structure can have a fairly dramatic impact on ion movement and can lead to IR or other artifacts. And since IPS LCDs have some asymmetric current, you can be sure that you're going to have some an uneven distribution of ions. H-IPS (and similar technologies like e-IPS and AH-IPS) have a fairly different electrode structure compared to previous iterations of IPS - IR/IP/ghosting very well could have been one of those unforseen consequences.

You may not have seen IR on your LCDs until now, but you probably weren't looking for it either since it's generally not hyped up like any issue with Apple products. Under normal operating conditions, I still don't notice any IR on my display. Yeah it's noticeable if I load a checkerboard pattern for 20ish minutes and then immediately switch to a gray screen... but that's not what I'd consider normal use. And even that clears up within seconds.

Any other static image (such as the OSX dock) has not actually "ghosted" on my display, and others seem to indicate the same. I've left my display on overnight, and there still wasn't anything really noticeable.


One factor that does effect the image retention is heat. If your research lab is anything like mine, then it's probably pretty cold in there. So IR is already less likely. There are complaints of IR on the U3011 (and pretty much all other IPS LCDs) if you look around.
 
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rMBP arrived this morning.

Quite marked image retention and some dead pixels. No uniformity or bleeding issues though. Disappointed to say the least. LG panel.

They wanted me to take it to store to be repaired. I explained that I've been waiting two weeks for this one and that I cant take time off work to visit the local store which is an hour away. It's a BTO so it's not as if they can swap it over for me :mad:
Apple will advance ship a replacement. I asked for a samsung panel and she said that I will get a like for like replacement... not sure she understood....
 
Just thought id share my experience. I have had mine for about a month now and did a test the first few days leaving static images for hours on the screen with no retention. However within the last week I have noticed pretty dramatic retention. Uncertain the reason for the delayed onset but its unfortunate. I have so many applications, preferences, settings and plugins I have to install I almost would rather live with the issue than have to migrate to a new machine again.


GRRR
 
Just thought id share my experience. I have had mine for about a month now and did a test the first few days leaving static images for hours on the screen with no retention. However within the last week I have noticed pretty dramatic retention. Uncertain the reason for the delayed onset but its unfortunate. I have so many applications, preferences, settings and plugins I have to install I almost would rather live with the issue than have to migrate to a new machine again.


GRRR


LG screen or Samsung?
 
LG screen or Samsung?



I believe LG.

Color LCD
LP154WT1-SJA1
DCN22760EZ3DMJ0A8



Another thing to note.

This isnt something where I need a checkerboard image on screen for 15 minutes to notice. I can put an app (such as wanderlust) with a high contrast on screen for as little as 1 minute and return to a grey screen to notice the retention.
 
And I would trust two computer manufacturers that do employee actual engineers over some guy on macrumors who's on a crusade against LG.

Displaymate isn't on Macrumors, it's a company that is perhaps the largest professional display testing company on earth. If there ever was an authoritative source on display panel phenomenon, it is them.

If you want some physics behind why image persistence occurs, read through this.

That's more Emag that I've read in a while, but the paper doesn't discuss solutions to the problem. Since you already seem to be capable of using Google Scholar, I'll let you search for those papers. But the fact remains that companies (including LG with other panel models) successfully manufactures displays that reduce IR to an undetectable levels.

You may not have seen IR on your LCDs until now, but you probably weren't looking for it either since it's generally not hyped up like any issue with Apple products. Under normal operating conditions, I still don't notice any IR on my display. Yeah it's noticeable if I load a checkerboard pattern for 20ish minutes and then immediately switch to a gray screen... but that's not what I'd consider normal use. And even that clears up within seconds.

I didn't look for IR, I only discovered this problem on Google after replacing my machine for the first time and still seeing IR on my 2nd display. All 3 of my panels display IR after displaying Safari for 5 minutes and then minimizing. The IR remains for 15-30 minutes.

I would have surely noticed IR on my other displays because I use the same grey background amongst all my computers.

One factor that does effect the image retention is heat. If your research lab is anything like mine, then it's probably pretty cold in there. So IR is already less likely. There are complaints of IR on the U3011 (and pretty much all other IPS LCDs) if you look around.

Actually if anything that room is the hottest in the entire department. We're got over ~10kW of computer equipment (at idle!) and 15 graduate students in their on a pretty regular basis. There's 3 different generation of Dell 30-inchers (U3011, 3008WFP, 3007WFP), as well as random other panels (Sony 24s, Asus 21s inchs) and 2 iMacs, zero of which show IR even with the checkerboard test pattern.
 
Recently returned my rmbp to order a base model which came with a samsung screen and mountain lion installed !!
 
I tough I'd been blessed with my LG. But today, after watching at this very forum for like 5 minutes, when back to the desktop with the default galaxy background I could basically read the whole page -_-'

Color LCD
LP154WT1-SJA1
DCN228704UJDMJ0AE

Very bad IR after a month of usage.
 
As a followup to my first post on page 6 of this thread, my gf and I were successful in exchanging out rMBPs for new ones (we were within the 14 days). We were lucky and both ended up with new rMBPs with Samsung displays.

While I was in the store, I looked at all the demo rMBPs and demonstrated to several employees what IR looks like. All of the Samsung rMBPs showed no sign of IR while every one of the LGs did.

A quick note: both our replacements came with Lion already installed, which may be something to note, and I noticed in best buy the other day that their demo rMBP with a Samsung display had Lion on it as well. Our original rMBPs had Mountain Lion already installed... it may be possible that more of the older builds are constructed with Samsung displays.

About the black screen after startup, do you use a scaled resolution?

And yes, I use a scaled resolution, and so does my gf. On our new rMBPs I still have the issue, whereas she hasn't experienced it once yet.
 
As a followup to my first post on page 6 of this thread, my gf and I were successful in exchanging out rMBPs for new ones (we were within the 14 days). We were lucky and both ended up with new rMBPs with Samsung displays.

While I was in the store, I looked at all the demo rMBPs and demonstrated to several employees what IR looks like. All of the Samsung rMBPs showed no sign of IR while every one of the LGs did.

A quick note: both our replacements came with Lion already installed, which may be something to note, and I noticed in best buy the other day that their demo rMBP with a Samsung display had Lion on it as well. Our original rMBPs had Mountain Lion already installed... it may be possible that more of the older builds are constructed with Samsung displays.



And yes, I use a scaled resolution, and so does my gf. On our new rMBPs I still have the issue, whereas she hasn't experienced it once yet.

so you are saying most of the newer built rMbp will be LG rather than Samsung?
 
My week 33 replacement was a Samsung and came installed with ML

I am having the black screen after log in problem too, I use the highest resolution option in control panel (more space). I find one reboot fixes it each time but it's annoying.
 
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