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Originally posted by Snowy_River
Now, Ford/BMW might work. Better yet, in my opinion, Ford/Toyota...

I think I'd instead equate the Mac with a nice new Honda Accord, and the PC with a pseudo-souped-up 1990 Civic hatchback, with a loud and annoying coffee-can muffler, big ugly hunks of molded plastic bolted on for no apparent reason, gratuitous blinking LEDs, and a lots of stickers. :)
 
Originally posted by Snowy_River
I'm not sure that Honda/BMW is a great analogy to make. Hondas last forever. They are great cars. By your analogy, the Honda should be the Apple, but Hondas cost less than BMWs.

Now, Ford/BMW might work. Better yet, in my opinion, Ford/Toyota...

ok very true, bmw and ford :) one costs more because it looks nicer, runs nicer, will last longer, and has a high resale value :)
 
I hate to prolong this thread, but since it apparently isn't going to be allowed to die...

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Now, Ford/BMW might work. Better yet, in my opinion, Ford/Toyota...

Perhaps you should equate Macs to the "European luxury maket" and PC's to the "Domestic manufacturers." The PC market is varied, some brands better than others with styles and designs all over the map, just like the PC market. If you're willing to spend the money, you can get a nice PC - just as you can get a nice American car. On the other hand, you can't get a cheap Euro luxuary car, and it still may be a lemon - just like Apple.

You may not like Ford (which are actually good products) and take joy from having a sort of smug superiority in your Euro car, but it is the best selling name-plate in the country.

Just like PC's and Apple.
 
I got this one just the other day.

"Isn't Apple owned by Microsoft?"

Dan

I actually get that one all the time. What most people that think that don't know is that it was such a small amount that it didn't matter. One person even went so far as to claim that Microsoft's purchase of that stock was so that Apple would stay alive long enough to buy Next. It's possible, but I doubt that small of an amount would've made even an hour's worth of difference.

Anyway, there are several things that I get a lot. And that I used to get even more. I have since given up debating the whole Mac/Wintel thing...

Here is one of them:

"They don't come with a two button mouse. Why would you want a computer without a two button mouse?"

to which I replied:
"If it's really that important, buy one. You can get a cheap one for 20-30$!"

to which he said:
"But why waste the money on it!"

to which I then replied:
"Marketing strategy. Bundle one kind of thing with a product, and if a person is unhappy with it, they will buy another one. Thus earning the company more money. You might as well say that all PC makers should include a 2 button mouse, a 3 button mouse, a 4 button mouse and several varieties of trackballs. All in corded and cordless varieties. Just to make sure that everyone is happy"

That was the end of a conversation between myself and a roommate about 6 months ago. This roommate has been using Windows machines since he was a kid. Poor sap! :rolleyes:

Mike
 
Re: Check this out...

Originally posted by cosmicsoftceo
See this link..

-cosmicsoftceo

Wow. That was entertaining. Typical blinders. Someone knows or has heard a little, and immediately makes a decision on that and spews dreck as if they're expert on the subject.

Personally, I don't take anyone seriously on either side of the fence until they have owned both concurrently for at least a few months, if not a year. (yes, I mean own not just use)
 
Originally posted by Foxer
I hate to prolong this thread, but since it apparently isn't going to be allowed to die...

I'll echo tazo's question, why do you hate to prolong this thread? If you don't like it, then don't read it...

Perhaps you should equate Macs to the "European luxury maket" and PC's to the "Domestic manufacturers." The PC market is varied, some brands better than others with styles and designs all over the map, just like the PC market. If you're willing to spend the money, you can get a nice PC - just as you can get a nice American car. On the other hand, you can't get a cheap Euro luxuary car, and it still may be a lemon - just like Apple.

You may not like Ford (which are actually good products) and take joy from having a sort of smug superiority in your Euro car, but it is the best selling name-plate in the country.

Just like PC's and Apple.

Yes, I'll agree with that.

And, no, I'm not too fond of Ford. My dislike has come through experience from many people that I've known who have owned them (friends, my mother, etc.), and I've seen the difficulty that they've had with needing to spend money on repairs very early on.

Part of why I suggested Toyotas is that they generally cost more, but are notably more reliable. They don't need as much maintainance, in general, and they usually run much longer, when compared to domestic brands (such as Ford or Chevy). I've even read an article that suggested that the total cost of ownership of a Toyota was much less than a similar model Ford (or was it a Chevy in that article? I don't recall...). All of this seems to be a parallel to the Apple vs. Wintel situation.
 
If you liked that one, check this out... someone already posted the link to this forum, but I have one better...

http://chaosforums.proboards15.com/index.cgi?board=computers&action=display&num=1053702434

On that site someone posted a document that he wrote about the difference between Mac and PC. Particularly the processing differences. What amused me the most about it was the numbers he uses. First off, he quotes some professional benchmarking company.

They compare a Dual Processor G4 running at 1.42 GHz per processor to a single processor Pentium 4 running at 3.06 GHz. Right there there is already a problem. The total GHz of the G4s equals only 2.84 GHz. That's 220 MHz slower than the pentium. Second, no matter how efficient the operating system utilizing the multi-processors, some of those Hz will always be lost in the process. It used to be a whopping 50% of the processing power of the second chip. I believe it has since gotten down to 10-25% lost. At the least that's another 142 MHz lost. So, already the processing speed is 362 MHz slower. It doesn't sound like much, but it all adds up.

To add to that problem they are comparing a Mac with a bus speed of 167MHz to a PC with a bus speed of 533MHz! Naturally, with all those speed differences, the Mac is going to end up losing in nearly every test.

The thing that gets me the most about all this, however, is not the usual benchmark tests... it's the game test. They state that their PC gets a whopping 300 frames per second and the Mac "obtained
 
Originally posted by Snowy_River
And, no, I'm not too fond of Ford. My dislike has come through experience from many people that I've known who have owned them (friends, my mother, etc.), and I've seen the difficulty that they've had with needing to spend money on repairs very early on.

I don't want to turn this into a car thread, but I'll stand-up for Ford here. We're currently on our 7th and 8th Fords since I turned 16. In total honesty, not one of them has ever spent a minute in the shop for a problem, except for those things (broken window, rusted out mufler, flat tires) that were my fault.

If freely admit it, I'm extremely loyal to those products and brands, like Macs and Ford, that have served me well. That being said, I'm sorry your friends and family have had bad experiences.
 
Bother... it cut off my response...

As I was trying to say...

They state that their PC gets a whopping 300 frames per second and the Mac "obtained only 210" What gets me about that is not the speed issue, but a simple biological fact... the human eye cannot sense any more than 60-72 frames per second... so why does it matter?! :p

Anyway, I guess when you get right down to it, it's all simply a matter of preference. Some people, through all their stubbornness, will stick with Windows until the bitter end. Where as, others will switch because they will realize that it's just so much easier to use a Mac.

Mike

PS: Sorry for going off topic here ;)
 
Dumb Questions from PC users

Here are some I heard everyday when working at CompUSA or on the internet or even better at church:

Isn't Apple dead?
Isn't Apple owned by Microsoft? I also love this.....Microsoft bought out Apple with that 150 million stock deal because Apple was so in Red that they needed Microsoft to buy them out.......an alternate of this is......Apple was only worth a couple thousand......maybe a million.....I really don't understand why Microsoft paid 150 million for Apple.....this time Bill was a dumbarse.
Didn't Apple go out of business back in 1995?
Didn't Windows 95 make Macs obsolete and useless?
Who is Steve Jobs?
What is a Mac?
Where is the floppy drive? How do I use my floppy disks?
Isn't Wozniak the owner of Apple or something like that?
Can I use windows on a Mac? ......this is where I show them Virtual PC and how it works.
Can you buy any software for Mac?
How come you never see any Macs at Walmart or Kmart?
Can I use Windows 98 as my main system on a Mac?
Where is the startup button?
How come the mouse has one button?
You like a one button mouse?
You like that stupid hockey puck?
You like having your computer colored?
Can you use Java on a Mac?
Does yahoo mail work on a Mac?
Does Wordperfect work on a Mac?
Isn't Steve Jobs dead?
Does USB work on a Mac? I heard that only Windows 98 uses USB.
You have a Mac or Apple? Don't you feel cheated? Don't you feel left out since you can't buy or use any software? I feel for ya! I'm sorry. Aren't ya ashamed to have a Mac?
When they say I'm sorry.....I also say why by sorry ......there is nothing to be sorry about......I am proud to have a Mac and be a loyal Mac user.
Are you one of those?
Are you one of those cult people?
Isn't Apple a cult?
Isn't Apple somekind of religion?
Are you one of those Mac freaks or weirdos or crazies?
Can you run Office on a Mac? Or can you get Office for a Mac?
Can a Mac network with a PC?
Can a Mac use ethernet?.....or alternate.....can a Mac use high speed stuff?
Does a Mac use Internet Explorer?
A Mac can't run AOL....can it?
How do I use a scanner on a Mac?.......they aren't compatible you know.
You can't fax on a Mac......can you?
Aren't Macs incompatible?
Can a Mac read email?
Can a Mac get on the internet?
Can a Mac print?
Can I use my (chose your item) disks, cds, windows, windows programs, camera, printer, scanner, monitor, modem, box, DSL, cable, Internet, AOL, games, files, keyboard, mouse, and etc?
Why does Apple bother......they have too little market share to do anything anyway?
Does anybody really make Apple software?
Microsoft makes Apple Software? Really? Are you like joking or pulling my tail?
 
Yep, I can't count how many times I've heard "Doesn't Microsoft own Apple now?"

Also this exchange was good:
"Yeah but you can't get Office for Mac"
"Yes you can, look it's right here I'll show you"
"But that's not the real Office is it"
"It's made by Microsoft and it's newer than the one on Windows"
"Yeah but its still not real"
(I walk off)

also "Isn't it impossible to network Mac's to PC's?"

and the best, from a friend who claimed he had a brand new 17" PowerBook:
"You've got 10.2 on your Mac? Mine only has 10.1"!!!!"

AppleMatt
 
No joke,

A guy at work said...you cant put your Mac on the network we have MAC Filtering enabled.

OMG!

When I explained that MAC filtering had nothing to do with a Mac, he said Oh well doesn't your Mac use AppleTalk? I said no not on a windows network even tho it could, TCP/IP is the standard. To that he replied well not the last time I used a Mac, when was that I asked...1993 he said.

UGH!

I am also tired of people with PC laptops telling me Macs suck because you cant upgrade them. Yeah and you'll be upgrading your WinTel laptop tmrw right?

MacBoyX
 
Re: Re: Dumb Questions from PC users

I had lots of headaches when I worked for CompUSA too! These questions weren't just from customers......some of these were from employees! To top it all off and I got to say this really gets me angry and pissed......an Apple employee asked some of these dumb questions. Back in July 2001, Apple started the Apple Sales Consultant program where they hired people to work as Apple sales reps at CompUSA. For some reason unexplained to me, Apple decided to ignore me and my partner Cary who had been Mac users all their lives and who either certified sales people or certified Apple technicians and had been working in the Mac section for past four or five years and hire a former cell phone salesman who had never used a Mac in his life and was like in awe when he went to Cupertino for their training! My boss called me to the office and said, "you know Apple is hiring people to run the Mac section now right?" I would say, "Yeah, I've heard rumors about it." The boss then says, "Well Brent, he is coming in August." I said, "Ok, so what does that mean to me?" He then says, "I just thought I would tell you that he doesn't know a darn thing about Macs or Apple and that Steve Jobs must be the dumbest dumbarse in the world." He then said, "By the way, Brent, we want you to train him so that he doesn't make us look like dumbarses ourselves and lose sales." Talk about wanting to call Apple and scream bloody murder at Steve Jobs......that is one moment where I wanted to kick his rear to kingdom come and back. The whole time the boss is telling me this he is snickering and laughing. I spent from August 2001 until October 2001 training the new Apple employee on his own products and services. Cary was pissed too. I wanted to just take my head and bang against the wall or something.....maybe it would give me a new reality or something!

Originally posted by patrick0brien
-bcsimac

Aaak! Too...much...head...exploding! <pshlork!>

:D
 
I forgot a few more questions that were asked

Here are a few I forgot:

Didn't Bill Gates invent the Apples?
Didn't Bill Gates make the first Apple OS or Mac OS or whatever it is called?
Didn't Steve Jobs get Bill Gates to do the stuff for him because his guys were too dumb?
Why don't you like Bill Gates.......he's rich isn't he?
Why do you like Steve Jobs......isn't he an arogant arsehole?
Can Apples take any other video card except the ATI ones?
Aren't Macs junk after you see the Bomb thingie on the screen?
What is Firewire?
Why should I care about Firewire......isn't that for rich people or something?
Isn't Firewire what they use to block out porn?
Why are Macs so expensive?
Quicktime? ......what's that?
Isn't Quicktime only for Apples?
You can't do Windows Media Player on a Mac .......can you?
You can't use video cameras on a Mac.....can you?
Isn't Unix really an archaine old system or something that was used in the 50's or 60's or something like that and is now obsolete......why would Apple be using Unix in Mac OS X.......why not make Windows NT the basis of MacOS X?
Apples can't use these PC hard drives right?
Apples can't use standard stuff can they?
 
Originally posted by Snowy_River
Uh, there's no such thing as centrifugal force. They would explode due to centripedal acceleration...

lol...i was too tired when typing that...knew something was wrong..lol..thx for correcting.:p
 
Originally posted by bryanc
"Macs are what they use in Europe...and they drive on the wrong side of the road there too!"

What can you say to that?

i'd walk away and never speak to them again, or at least for 2 weeks. :p
 
Originally posted by bryanc
"Macs are what they use in Europe...and they drive on the wrong side of the road there too!"

What can you say to that?

-bryanc

Driving on the left side of the road is only true in the UK.

Smack 'em with that!
 
This is just a little off topic, but my buddy gave me a really good analogy:

"Macs are to computers as Bang & Olufsen is to home theater."

I like it - small market share, more expensive than a more common brand, but looks damn sexy and always works, looks, and sounds great.

I'll use that in addition to my traditional "you get what you pay for" argument when I hear the $800 gateway argument (those who have heard it know what i'm talking about).
 
I got this story too!

When I moved back to PA, I was riding with my aunt and uncle and was hearing them brag to me about this Gateway PC they configured and looked at the Gateway Country Store. She said oh its 2 Ghz P4, its got 512MB of memory, 40 GB HD, USB, CD burner, DVD player, big 17 inch flat screen, Windows XP Home Edition, Microsoft Office, modem, mouse, keyboard, and she thought that it might have a network card......she wasn't sure. She said it was like 2500 bucks or something like that. I listened to her and said that's nice aunt Jan. I said well it sounds like a pretty average joe computer to me. She said average joe! What do you mean average joe.......that's like top of the line!


I said well it doesn't even interest me to tell you the truth. I said now if you want a really cool and nasty system let's talk Dual 1 Ghz G4, with four hard drive bays......and lets see .....lets get oh geee 120 GB of HD.....maybe a second HD at 60GB .......hmmmm let's see Airport card......oh aunt Jan that is wireless nic by the way.....she said oh........1Gbps ethernet......1 GB of ram......oh and a GeForce 4 Titanium video card with dual display capabilities.......oh lets not forget it has a DVD-R/CDRW drive from Pioneer that Apple calls a SuperDrive......and oh gee it comes with iTunes2 and 3, iDVD 2, iDVD, iMovie 2 for OS X and OS 9, iPhoto, oh gee it has Jaguar.....aunt Jan just in case you are wondering what that is......that is Mac OS X (that means 10) 10.2.........and oh geee lets see lets get a 10 GB iPod.....just in case you don't know what that is ......well its a firewire based Mp3 player......she was like oh........She said what does DVD-R mean? I said its a dvd burner.......it burns actual DVD's .....she said you can't do that....its illegal......I said well you can't copy them if that is what you were thinking.....LOL ......but I can whip up a movie in iMovie and then import it into iDVD and burn that baby on DVD..........and oh it has two firewire ports......oh yeah that's a real machine......lets not forget a firewire hard drive.......a sony or canon DV camcorder.......and oh yeah a copy of Mac OS X server.....so I can stream that stuff baby........and oh a 3 megapixel digital camera.......and oh a really nice epson photo printer with 6 ink colors.......ooooooo now that is a real system.......and oh one more thing........a really nice 22 inch cinema display......and yes aunt Jan that is a flat panel screen............You should have seen my aunt and uncle's jaw drop!

My uncle said you know thats a bit much......nobody really needs a DVD burner .......and gigabit ethernet isn't used much in the real world ya know.....and dual displays isnt necessary.......and firewire isn't all that useful.........and why would ya want to buy a server........I would get a cheaper mp3 player that is usb.........half that ram is enough and half that HD is enough......you only need one.


I got to tell you I called my mom back in Boston and even she cracked up in laughter when she heard what they said! She is like they really don't get it do they? I said nope mom they don't.....and my mom said....gee I only have an iMac and I know that my system is way better than theirs and what they were just talking about.......but they don't know any better.....its not their fault.
 
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