There will NOT be an iPad Mini

[The Bogeyman]

I- being completely thick and a noob- have a theory. Feel free to say I don't know what the hell I'm on about, cos frankly, I don't.

My theory is this: Apple are purposely misinforming about this, suggesting there is a small iPad coming out to disguise that they ARE in fact making bigger screens.... which are for the next iPhone. These Samsung smartphones are getting huge again, so it kinda makes sense that the next iPhone may have a bigger screen. The talk of a small iPad is merely a smokescreen (excuse the unintentional joke). It fits with some reports I've read on MR, showing a larger case for the next iPhone. A larger case requires a larger screen. Of course, I know sod all and am just speculating, and I'm sure someone will put me right, but who knows? After all- there may be a size difference in the screen size for the supposed iPad Mini to the new iPhone, but it could all just be so much purposeful confusion and misinformation.

I think that maybe Apple were so irritated by all the leaks from the iPad 3, that they themselves have started "muddying the water" on purpose.

I hope I make sense. It's late at night and I have a habit of talking bollocks and not thinking things through properly!

 

[knucklehead]

Feel free to read the second thing I posted.

I read it once, and just went back and read it again.

Did you read what I posted there?

This is strange...

----------

I- being completely thick and a noob- have a theory. Feel free to say I don't know what the hell I'm on about, cos frankly, I don't.

My theory is this: Apple are purposely misinforming about this, suggesting there is a small iPad coming out to disguise that they ARE in fact making bigger screens.... which are for the next iPhone. These Samsung smartphones are getting huge again, so it kinda makes sense that the next iPhone may have a bigger screen. The talk of a small iPad is merely a smokescreen (excuse the unintentional joke). It fits with some reports I've read on MR, showing a larger case for the next iPhone. A larger case requires a larger screen. Of course, I know sod all and am just speculating, and I'm sure someone will put me right, but who knows? After all- there may be a size difference in the screen size for the supposed iPad Mini to the new iPhone, but it could all just be so much purposeful confusion and misinformation.

I think that maybe Apple were so irritated by all the leaks from the iPad 3, that they themselves have started "muddying the water" on purpose.

I hope I make sense. It's late at night and I have a habit of talking bollocks and not thinking things through properly!

Hey - who knows what Apple is actually doing?
They’re certainly making great attempts to be secretive.

 

[Technarchy]

As Tim Cook said, Apple likes to put their wood behind a few arrows.

What contribution or improvement can an iPad Mini make?

Now a 5" iPod Touch, that would be something.

 

[knucklehead]

Now a 5" iPod Touch, that would be something.

"Yes, this is something ... What is it?"

A Serious Man (2011)

 

[freudling]

The only "NOT" that can be stated empirically regarding an Apple rumor is that random people on a web forum do NOT have a clue as to what Apple will and won't do. In fact, history indicates that as often as not (or more often), those who emphatically postulate that Apple will not turn a given rumor into reality are eventually proven dead wrong, to the cackling delight of his or her fellow forum members.

Ya, just like with the PDA and every other link whored rumour that's come out over the past 10 years. Apple TV to launch at WWDC 2012. Full line of iMac Retina models to be unveiled at WWDC 2012...

----------

I- being completely thick and a noob- have a theory. Feel free to say I don't know what the hell I'm on about, cos frankly, I don't.

My theory is this: Apple are purposely misinforming about this, suggesting there is a small iPad coming out to disguise that they ARE in fact making bigger screens.... which are for the next iPhone. These Samsung smartphones are getting huge again, so it kinda makes sense that the next iPhone may have a bigger screen. The talk of a small iPad is merely a smokescreen (excuse the unintentional joke). It fits with some reports I've read on MR, showing a larger case for the next iPhone. A larger case requires a larger screen. Of course, I know sod all and am just speculating, and I'm sure someone will put me right, but who knows? After all- there may be a size difference in the screen size for the supposed iPad Mini to the new iPhone, but it could all just be so much purposeful confusion and misinformation.

I think that maybe Apple were so irritated by all the leaks from the iPad 3, that they themselves have started "muddying the water" on purpose.

I hope I make sense. It's late at night and I have a habit of talking bollocks and not thinking things through properly!

This is what I'm saying.

 

[poloponies]

Do you just pull stuff out of your butt?

There are several demonstrated cases with hospitals adopting the iPad. And the reason is simple: because the product... the whole product with the ability to create good, enterprise driven Apps... with the high res screen... the ease of use... has been catching at hospitals. Yes, nurses and doctors use them. They use them to do rounds, for charting and for XRAY and MRI analysis.

Thousands of iPads flood Ottawa hospital:

http://www.mhimss.org/news/ottawa-hospitals-cio-explains-his-ipad-program

“At least half of our staff here in the emergency room has their own iPad and carries it and uses it.”:

http://www.cultofmac.com/64565/how-hospitals-are-using-the-ipad/

Post critical care:

http://www.apple.com/ipad/business/profiles/rehabcare/

I used to work for National Health Services. Patient records have been transitioning over to standardized erecords systems in the US and Canada over the past few years. The major catalyst has been the iPad. Before the iPad, devices were too complicated and constrained, and App development was too expensive and complex.

Montreal hospital using iPads for patient records:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...ontreal-doctors-access-patient-info-ipad.html

iPad in surgery.

http://www.imedicalapps.com/2011/09/future-ipad-operating-room-game-changer/

Apple working to sell to hospitals:

http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2011/12/apple-ipad-doctors/

Zillion other uses in hospital:

http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/p.../ipad-3-whets-doctor-app-etites.html?page=all

Hospitals, Doctors... already are set up with erecord systems coming off secure servers where they can view patient info like MRI and XRAY scans from virtually anywhere as long as they're equipped with an iPad. It has greatly sped up patient processing.

In other words, you're wrong.

----------



knucklehead.

Since you didn't bother reading my post, my point was that the current iPad has already been adopted. The medical world hasn't been clamoring for a smaller device because the current one works fine.

 

[Booji]

I'm pretty sure it will come out this fall, it fits a niche that is now understood, and it would make an excellent addition to the iOS lineup. I'm going to get one as long as the price is around $250 since I can easily share my exiting apps.

I love my iPad, but sometimes its just too big and heavy for commuter travelling. I think the Mini would make a perfect travel device and also handy for service uses.

The popularity of the Kindle Fire has proven the demand for a 7" device. The low price point would attract new users to Apple ecosystem that would be likely trade to up at a later time. I know in my case, the iPhone was my "gateway device" that led me to eventually become an Apple only household. Existing iPad users would also purchase one as well to address specific use cases where a small device is needed or desired. Since all the data would sync on the cloud, it would be easy to switch to either device as needed.

I think the Mini will be a huge hit for the holiday season.

 

[hitekalex]

Lot of hot air in this thread

There is clearly a market for 7" low-cost ($200-$300) tablets, as Amazon (and now Google) have shown. Not everyone needs or wants a $500-$900 tablet.

All 7" tablets on the market thus far have been crippled by Android and its derivations. In other words, there is no 7" tablet that can benefit from iOS and its plethora of high-quality apps developed specifically for 1024x768 resolution.

Amazon Fire suffers from mediocre hardware design and crippled Android-ish OS. People still swallow them up. Google Nexus 7" will run Jelly Bean, which is the first reasonably decent Android version optimized for tablets. Early reviews have been overwhelmingly positive, but it's still Android and it still doesn't hold a match to iOS when it comes to tablet apps ecosystem.

Apple is in unique position to make a 7-8" tablet that can be highly useable right off the gate, due to a simple fact that it can run every existing iPad app.

There are tens of millions of people out there who don't already own a smartphone, a tablet or an e-reader. This a huge potential market for an "iPad lite" product. While no one here truly knows whether Apple will indeed come out with "iPad lite" product - it would be ridiculous for them to not seriously consider it.

 

[freudling]

Lot of hot air in this thread

There is clearly a market for 7" low-cost ($200-$300) tablets, as Amazon (and now Google) have shown. Not everyone needs or wants a $500-$900 tablet.

No, there is NOT clearly a market. Neither Google nor Amazon have demonstrated that.

Of the almost 100 Android tablets in the tweener zone, everyone of them has failed.

Amazon Kindle Fire: shipments are now abysmal. Only "shipped" well for 2 months. It is not shipping well at all. It is not shipping well at all. Notice shipping instead of selling. There are zero actual sales stats available from Amazon. Apple always quotes actual sales, not shipments.

In addition, there's no money in them. They sell at a virtual loss, return rates are high, money made on content is very low (Android users are cheap bastards compared to iOS users).

"Amazon ended 2011 with 4.8 million units shipped [No actual sell through numbers] — about 16.8% of the tablet market. In the first quarter of 2012, that figure dropped to around 4%; All Things D puts the figure at under 750,000 units."

http://www.geekosystem.com/kindle-fire-2012/

Meanwhile, the iPad continues to sell millions upon millions upon millions, as it has been doing since day one over 2 years ago. No other multi-touch colour tablet has been successful. Actual sales have been abysmal on every single one with little to no indication of any kind of real profit made from them, either at point-of-sale or via content.

 

[Virinprew]

Things change. iPad 9.7" may be a success now. But who knows. May be iPad mini is what people really want to buy.

 

[Booji]

No, there is NOT clearly a market. Neither Google nor Amazon have demonstrated that.

Of the almost 100 Android tablets in the tweener zone, everyone of them has failed.

Amazon Kindle Fire: shipments are now abysmal. Only "shipped" well for 2 months. It is not shipping well at all. It is not shipping well at all. Notice shipping instead of selling. There are zero actual sales stats available from Amazon. Apple always quotes actual sales, not shipments.

In addition, there's no money in them. They sell at a virtual loss, return rates are high, money made on content is very low (Android users are cheap bastards compared to iOS users).

"Amazon ended 2011 with 4.8 million units shipped [No actual sell through numbers] — about 16.8% of the tablet market. In the first quarter of 2012, that figure dropped to around 4%; All Things D puts the figure at under 750,000 units."

http://www.geekosystem.com/kindle-fire-2012/

Meanwhile, the iPad continues to sell millions upon millions upon millions, as it has been doing since day one over 2 years ago. No other multi-touch colour tablet has been successful. Actual sales have been abysmal on every single one with little to no indication of any kind of real profit made from them, either at point-of-sale or via content.

Since Amazon sells direct, doesn't shipped=sold? Anyway, because Amazon did not make money on content, does that mean Apple cannot make money with a 7"?

 

[mentaluproar]

The mini would be easier to hold, but I prefer typing on the standard sized iPad, in landscape. Additionally, when apple first put out the iPad, it was (actually, still is) considered a giant iPod touch. Imagine the response if they first released a smaller one. Back then, the 9.7 was the only choice. Now, either one can sell, but I don't see the point of a smaller iPad. People who want more than an ereader will need that bigger screen.

 

[Highcroft]

No, there is NOT clearly a market. Neither Google nor Amazon have demonstrated that.

What company before the iPad was able to build a large market for 10 inch tablets? Yes, there currently isn't a large 7 inch "tablet" market, but that has no effect whatsoever on the possibility of a successful 7 inch "iPad" market.

 

[hitekalex]

No, there is NOT clearly a market. Neither Google nor Amazon have demonstrated that.

Of the almost 100 Android tablets in the tweener zone, everyone of them has failed.

You just don't get it. You are conflating (relative) failure of Android 7" tablets with the failure of this market segment as a whole. Reminds me of people saying "tablet market doesn't exist because Windows tablets had been such a dud".. before iPad came out!

The fact that there had been a tremendous initial demand for Kindle Fire after it was introduced proves that THERE IS a large market segment for this type of product. Heck, in my extended family alone we have 6 Kindle Fires and 2 Nook Colors.

The fact that the demand tapered off proves the point I had made - current 7" tablets (and Fire in particular) are crippled by Android, its lack of quality tablet apps, and generally crappy hardware.

Rest assured that if Apple were to release a smaller / lower cost iPad - it would suffer from none of that. It has already been demonstrated that there would be nothing inherintly flawed with 7.85" 1024x768 iPad.

These things would sell like hot cakes if Apple were to introduce them.

 

[poloponies]

You just don't get it. You are conflating failure of Android 7" tablets with the failure of this market segment as a whole. Reminds me of people saying "tablet market doesn't exist because Windows tablets had been such a dud".. before iPad came out!

The fact that there had been a tremendous initial demand for Kindle Fire after it was introduced proves that THERE IS a large market segment for this type of product. Heck, in my extended family alone we have 6 Kindle Fires and 2 Nook Colors.

The fact that the demand tapered off proves the point I had made - current 7" tablets (and Fire in particular) are crippled by Android, its lack of quality tablet apps, and generally crappy hardware.

Rest assured that if Apple were to release a smaller / lower cost iPad - it would suffer from none of that. It has already been demonstrated that there would be nothing inherintly flawed with 7.85" 1024x768 iPad.

These things would sell like hot cakes if Apple were to introduce them.

Amazon selling a $200 tablet device pretty much at cost does not automatically lead to a conclusion that there's huge pent-up demand for a 7" device. If Amazon sold it for $299 how would sales fare? A $199 price point is a selling point for the device, but not a model for everyone. Amazon and Google are just trying to establish themselves in the tablet market. Not an easy thing to do when there are established competitors, so you market devices at the lowest point possible to generate sales. That's sales, not profit. Apple and other manufacturers can't do that without hurting their bottom line.

So it's not a matter of the world clamoring for smaller devices, it's the world clamoring for cheap devices. Few companies can do cheap and survive, and certainly not Apple.

 

[gloss]

"Yes, this is something ... What is it?"

A Serious Man (2011)

"Accept mystery" is one of my favorite movie lines ever.

 

[hitekalex]

Few companies can do cheap and survive, and certainly not Apple.

Wrong again. Apple is the only company with scale and price leverage to be able to pull this off. When they introduced a $499 iPad 3 years ago - no one else could touch that price point.

Do your research. Various smart people (e.g. iFixIt) believe that Apple can easily do a 7.85" non-retina iPad for around $249, while still reaping a hefty profit.

 

[knucklehead]

Wrong again. Apple is the only company with scale and price leverage to be able to pull this off. When they introduced a $499 iPad 3 years ago - no one else could touch that price point.

Do your research. Various smart people (e.g. iFixIt) believe that Apple can easily do a 7.85" non-retina iPad for around $249, while still reaping a hefty profit.

And Apple did very publicly declare when they introduced the iPad that they fully intend to own this market, and had room, and were willing to cut their margins if needed.

I don't even think they are in a position yet where they would have to cut their margins on an introduced mini. Just build it, price it the way they want, and people will buy it.

 

[poloponies]

Wrong again. Apple is the only company with scale and price leverage to be able to pull this off. When they introduced a $499 iPad 3 years ago - no one else could touch that price point.

Do your research. Various smart people (e.g. iFixIt) believe that Apple can easily do a 7.85" non-retina iPad for around $249, while still reaping a hefty profit.

Show me one reliable source that suggests its possible. They all say "about $249" as if they have some magical knowledge but don't try to demonstrate where savings could be achieved.

 

[freudling]

You just don't get it. You are conflating (relative) failure of Android 7" tablets with the failure of this market segment as a whole. Reminds me of people saying "tablet market doesn't exist because Windows tablets had been such a dud".. before iPad came out!

The fact that there had been a tremendous initial demand for Kindle Fire after it was introduced proves that THERE IS a large market segment for this type of product. Heck, in my extended family alone we have 6 Kindle Fires and 2 Nook Colors.

The fact that the demand tapered off proves the point I had made - current 7" tablets (and Fire in particular) are crippled by Android, its lack of quality tablet apps, and generally crappy hardware.

Rest assured that if Apple were to release a smaller / lower cost iPad - it would suffer from none of that. It has already been demonstrated that there would be nothing inherintly flawed with 7.85" 1024x768 iPad.

These things would sell like hot cakes if Apple were to introduce them.

The initial momemtum was from marketing and the holiday season. People who bought were early adopters and cheapskates who wanted to try a tablet. Whatever the actual sell through nobody knows.

The funny thing about business discussions is how screwed up people's thinking can get. The bottom line isn't anything but whether people actually need tweeners. And I don't think they do. They need smartphones, And these are poised to sell over half a billion devices in this category this year.

Tweeners are a dead end. The market has spoken. It's not about Apple doing it "right"... how people would buy if and only if Apple did it. The product as a segment of the tablet market just isn't useful enough. I bet everyone here Apple doesn't release a mini this year. If you take the bet, I'm allowed to tell you to ****.

----------

Since Amazon sells direct, doesn't shipped=sold? Anyway, because Amazon did not make money on content, does that mean Apple cannot make money with a 7"?

It's a recipe for disaster because:

1. Nobody wants or needs tweeners, they really don't. Yes a few diehard tabletheads out there do;
2. It's a segment full of absurdly cheap products. $199. A cheapskate battlezone with no end in sight. It's like a bunch of people on a deserted island competing against each other making gas powered cars. In the end, a total waste of time and energy.
3. Fragmentation. Apple will not fragment their iOS into a third odd ball screen size. Won't happen.

It's just dumb. It's not a segment that has all this opportunity where things are broken and need to be fixed like say, the TVs. It's a waste and Apple keeps the disinformation machine going to confuse the market. And it works.

 

[ugahairydawgs]

Tweeners are a dead end. The market has spoken. It's not about Apple doing it "right"... how people would buy if and only if Apple did it. The product as a segment of the tablet market just isn't useful enough. I bet everyone here Apple doesn't release a mini this year. If you take the bet, I'm allowed to tell you to ****.

By that logic Apple should have never gotten into the tablet game to begin with. It was non-existent until they turned a niche into a viable segment of the computer market. That doesn't necessarily mean that a 7.85" iPad will be as successful as the 9.7" model, but I don't think it is DOA just because Amazon hasn't gotten a ton of traction with the Kindle Fire. If the smaller iPad comes as stripped down and as crippled as the KF then yeah, it probably won't sell well. But if it is simply a slimmed down version of the larger model that sells for $200 or $250, then I think they are going to have a hard time keeping them in stock for quite a while.

 

[poloponies]

By that logic Apple should have never gotten into the tablet game to begin with. It was non-existent until they turned a niche into a viable segment of the computer market. That doesn't necessarily mean that a 7.85" iPad will be as successful as the 9.7" model, but I don't think it is DOA just because Amazon hasn't gotten a ton of traction with the Kindle Fire. If the smaller iPad comes as stripped down and as crippled as the KF then yeah, it probably won't sell well. But if it is simply a slimmed down version of the larger model that sells for $200 or $250, then I think they are going to have a hard time keeping them in stock for quite a while.

I agree that if Apple could make a full-featured iPad in a smaller size for $200-$250 they would sell very well. But Apple can't do that. Nobody can. They either will not do it at all or they will do it at a realistic price point which will have everyone here up in arms over what a terrible thing Apple did.

 

[Arran]

The market has spoken.

Um, the only way the market 'speaks' is by not buying the product. Since Apple haven't released a 7" tablet, the market is not yet able to 'speak'.

... Apple keeps the disinformation machine going to confuse the market. And it works.

I agree with you there. If Apple are planning a 7" tablet (and I believe they are), I imagine they'd want to deny it as vigorously as possible to limit the damage to current iPad 3 sales. Of course, they'd have to deny it in a very indirect way (through apparently disinterested 3rd parties and 'independent' pundits) to preserve their own credibility.

Do you think they'd do that sort of thing?

 

[teknikal90]

I agree with the guy.
Remember the iPhone mini rumors that arose when people were looking for a lower cost phone?
Never happened, they just keep selling the 3GS at that price point. And I actually think that's the best approach.
Keep selling the iPad 2, let it compete in that lower cost category. Yeah the Nexus 7 has Quad core processors. Big deal.. The average consumer will just see substantially bigger screen, the iPad name and ecosystem and pick that over the Nexus 7 if they're on the same price range - heck, I would.
I also share the sentiment towards the 7" screen being awkward, too small for full sized webpages, too big for mobile sites.

 

[knucklehead]

I agree with you there. If Apple are planning a 7" tablet (and I believe they are), I imagine they'd want to deny it as vigorously as possible to limit the damage to current iPad 3 sales. Of course, they'd have to deny it in a very indirect way (through apparently disinterested 3rd parties and 'independent' pundits) to preserve their own credibility.

Do you think they'd do that sort of thing?

I have no idea why this is, but for the last day I've been having this strange image that keeps popping into my head of Larry and Curly trying to run a spin campaign

[/IMG]