Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple will not try and compete in the $199 price point (that would be silly); but they will in the 7" to 8" ecosystem. And, there is really NO competition w/ ios Apps (ask any android/ios app developer).

My prediction is a 7"-8" ipad, @ around $349...
I could not disagree more vigorously; that number seems like science fiction at best. And here is why:

The only reason for a 7" iPad is to fill the gaping hole between a 3.5" iPhone and the 9.7" iPad. And the only reason the Fire and Nook and eventually the Nexus have any hope of competing at 7" is because Apple is not yet competing there; Apple has so far left all that money on the table. And we now know that there is a market for a 7" tablet, as has already been proven.

What Apple's strategy would be is to put out a clearly-better option at 7", so that the customer base who wants a tablet this size has a clearly-better option. They obviously can put out a clearly-better option at 9.7", and a highly-competitive option at 3.5"; the numbers are in on that.

The real trick is to get away from the largest problem, which is that iPad owners are unlikely to be multiple iPad owners; most who buy an iPad are no longer potential customers, until obsolescence sets it. This is the problem with the iPod; everybody already has one so they can't sell them another one. But from all of the folks who bought an iPad 2 and then a year later also quite surprisingly bought an iPad 3, I think there are a lot more iPad owners who would also want a 7" at $199, and that solves that very problem to a significant degree, especially if the 7" has the evolutionary new special sauce that even the iPad 3 does not have, which it probably will. IOW, they will justify that it is different (and new) enough to be a different product worth having, even if they already have a Touch, or a 9.7" iPad, especially because it costs half or less than the iPad cost them last year.

Hide and watch. Its a way to bridge full iPad models for those who have an older iPad and want a newer one but can't justify replacing it at full cost. For a lot of those folks, this they could do.

The rest of the strategy is based on 3 things:

1) price it high enough so that it does not cannibalize sales of the iPod Touch or the 7" iPad. They don't want to make a smaller profit on a lower-priced smaller tab if it means people will buy the item with the lower profit instead of the one with the higher profit.
2) price it low enough so that it competes strongly with the other 7" tabs out there. You don't want to chase everyone away, to other, less-expensive options.
3) price it high enough so that they can still make a small or even not-so-small profit; there has to be enough profit so that you are not cannibalizing the profit from other Apple products, but it still has to be priced low enough to compete, and $349 is waaaaaay too high to be a strategy at all.​

Assuming these price points (and the stars) align without conflict, they can price it for $199 and basically kill off all competitors, or price it at $229 and make all of their competitors at least wish they were dead. If the numbers above do conflict, they might have to go for $249. If those numbers do not align, they have no business even building a 7" iPad, but since everyone except the OP here believes they will, the numbers probably do work out just about like this. Otherwise, why would they even bother?

Now a $349 7" iPad; that is what is silly. Why would Apple embarrass themselves by taking a chance on this not working and everyone just going to the $199 competitor, which they would in droves, even if it might not really be as good as an iPad? Apple is also exceptionally sensitive to a legacy of high prices from years gone by; they work hard to dissuade us from thinking that they might be regularly gouging their customers. I also think it would be confusing to customers that the iPad2 might be so close in price to a new iPad half its size.

And all of this must also take into account that they will have to drop the price on the Touch so it is not glaringly high compared to a 7" iPad; a Touch with equivalent storage can't be more than $30 higher than a 7" iPad, and the only reason it could be that much more that they could hang their hats on is it is still a device without a competitor (other than phones) and it costs more to make the technology that tiny. Let's not forget that an unsubsidized iPhone is around $650 for two reasons:

1) it is expensive to produce technology this light and small with decent battery life; more expensive and challenging than making it bigger (read: iPad).
2) the perceived value of an unsubsidized price of $600-$700 erects a barrier that pushes customers towards a phone with a calling and data plan contract, which is what they and their partners want (AT&T rebates Apple $18 per month for every phone they have a plan on, meaning a 2-year plan is a guaranteed $432 on top of the out-the-door price of $199 or $299, straight into the Apple coffers, and most people remain month to month even after the contract).

Bottom line, I predict a 90% chance of the 7" iPad (7.85), a 60% chance of it starting at $199, a 35% chance of it starting at $229, a < 4% chance it will be priced between $229 and $349, and a < 1% chance of it being as high or higher than $349. Nothing else makes any sense. I also expect a steep drop on the Touch, unless it gets some serious magical upgrade mojo.
 
Last edited:
Bottom line, I predict a 90% chance of the 7" iPad (7.85), a 60% chance of it starting at $199, a 35% chance of it starting at $229, a < 4% chance it will be priced between $229 and $349, and a < 1% chance of it being as high or higher than $349. Nothing else makes any sense. I also expect a steep drop on the Touch, unless it gets some serious magical upgrade mojo.

Why stop there? Wouldn't a $149 iPad sell even better? How about a $99 iPad, that would be awesome!! Think outside the box, man, $199 is too high!
 
Why stop there? Wouldn't a $149 iPad sell even better? How about a $99 iPad, that would be awesome!! Think outside the box, man, $199 is too high!

No need to be an ass. His logic is pretty sound. I don't see it being $199, but $229 I do. Pads the profit a bit more and keeps the Apple "premium" over other similar products. But it's not a big enough premium to scare away the price conscious.
 
No need to be an ass. His logic is pretty sound. I don't see it being $199, but $229 I do. Pads the profit a bit more and keeps the Apple "premium" over other similar products. But it's not a big enough premium to scare away the price conscious.

There's no logic in pulling random prices out of the air.
 
The only ones who've had modest success have been the Nook Color and the Kindle Fire. However, both of these latter had sales initially during momentum from all of their marketing... sales quickly plummeted off of a cliff.

I think you just contradicted yourself with the first statement.
No one said Mini iPad will be huge, but everyone is predicting good sales in millions.

Apple will not simply make a smaller iPad. They will polish it right.
 
I think you just contradicted yourself with the first statement.
No one said Mini iPad will be huge, but everyone is predicting good sales in millions.

Apple will not simply make a smaller iPad. They will polish it right.

It's funny to watch us geeks get blue in the face. Everyone is throwing their hands up at this topic now.

Apple will not release an iPad Mini. You heard it here first. If you still think tweeners are useful, delusional thinking is fine I guess... but other than that, they won't fragment iOS with another screen size.

Let me ask everyone of you something: how many of you use a 7" tablet? Let the lies begin... ;)
 
OP

Put some skin in the game. I suggest that a friendly wager should be made.


If you think the iPad mini will never see the light of day as a consumer product then put something on the line. How about a 30 day self-imposed ban from MacRumors? If you win your nemesis will receive the 30 day ban voluntarily.

Anyone can say somethings not going to happen. Conviction comes in what you're willing to risk for support your hypothesis.
 
As a strategic move, Apple needs their own relatively cheap tablet. They need to sustain their market share, and not give Android tablets a solid footwork. If Android tablets gain market share, guess what happens? More developers will see a market, make tablet apps for Android, and Android becomes a richer ecosystem. Now you have a bunch of relatively cheap Android tablets with a good ecosystem. Why would people pick Apple then? BTW, Android is a good OS, despite the misinformation out there. Take a look at the Android smartphone growth. A 7" inch tablet at a decent price range is a good solution to combat Android.
 
Apple will not release an iPad Mini. You heard it here first. If you still think tweeners are useful, delusional thinking is fine I guess... but other than that, they won't fragment iOS with another screen size.

You don't understand what "fragmentation" means. Releasing a tablet running the same 1024x768 screen resolution and iOS6 as other shipping devices is not fragmentation.

Equally, you have no idea what Apple will or won't do. It is beyond doubt that Apple has been working on a 7.85" tablet in their labs - numeous people with inside Cuppertino sources have been confirming this. So your "certainty" about Apple not releasing it is misguided.
 
Last edited:
As a strategic move, Apple needs their own relatively cheap tablet. They need to sustain their market share, and not give Android tablets a solid footwork. If Android tablets gain market share, guess what happens? More developers will see a market, make tablet apps for Android, and Android becomes a richer ecosystem. Now you have a bunch of relatively cheap Android tablets with a good ecosystem. Why would people pick Apple then? BTW, Android is a good OS, despite the misinformation out there. Take a look at the Android smartphone growth. A 7" inch tablet at a decent price range is a good solution to combat Android.

Android has been competing against Apple in smartphones for some time now. It doesn't make Apple inferior in any way or threaten your ability to use Apple devices. I don't get why anyone should be up in arms about Android capturing a low-end market. So what?
 
You don't understand what "fragmentation" means. Releasing a tablet running the same 1024x768 screen resolution and iOS6 as other shipping devices is not fragmentation.

And you have absolutely no idea what Apple will or won't do. It is beyond doubt that Apple has been seriously considering making a 7.85" tablet - people with numerous inside Cuppertino sources have been confirming this.

Who said they would release a 1024 x 768 screen? In fact, they would never do that because it's not high enough resolution to be Retina. And they'd now never release a mobile product without a Retina screen. Because of the odd screen size the resolution would not match any of Apple's mobile devices. Ergo fragmentation.

Second, the only thing beyond a doubt is that you will believe anything you read.

In other words, you're clueless.
 
Android has been competing against Apple in smartphones for some time now. It doesn't make Apple inferior in any way or threaten your ability to use Apple devices. I don't get why anyone should be up in arms about Android capturing a low-end market. So what?

Why should Apple let them capture it though? If they have the ability to produce an Apple quality device at a similar price point it would be silly not to.
 
As a strategic move, Apple needs their own relatively cheap tablet. They need to sustain their market share, and not give Android tablets a solid footwork. If Android tablets gain market share, guess what happens? More developers will see a market, make tablet apps for Android, and Android becomes a richer ecosystem. Now you have a bunch of relatively cheap Android tablets with a good ecosystem. Why would people pick Apple then? BTW, Android is a good OS, despite the misinformation out there. Take a look at the Android smartphone growth. A 7" inch tablet at a decent price range is a good solution to combat Android.

Sure they do. Just like they need a cheap phone to compete with all of those cheap Android devices, right? Yet Apple dominates the mobile phone biz with 1 phone. They have the highest share of mobile phone profits in the world to boot.

And the iPad dominates the tablet market, where Android tablets have failed, including the Kindle Fire.

It's all in your head.
 
Why should Apple let them capture it though? If they have the ability to produce an Apple quality device at a similar price point it would be silly not to.

That's not what Apple's about. You don't need to achieve total world dominance to be a successful company. Apple will never ever try to compete against devices that are not designed to make a profit, it's delusional to think that they will. What is the point of selling a product at cost when you already have a strong foothold in the tablet market?
 
Apple will not try and compete in the $199 price point (that would be silly); but they will in the 7" to 8" ecosystem. And, there is really NO competition w/ ios Apps (ask any android/ios app developer).

My prediction is a 7"-8" ipad, @ around $349.

I think there has been sufficient "supplier" rumors to substantiat that there will be a smaller iPad before the end of 2012.

I agree with you entirely, but I think it will cost $299, just because Apple has a hard on with making things X99 when it runs either iOS or OSX, and $399 is too expensive to not justify the cost of a full size...
 
That's not what Apple's about. You don't need to achieve total world dominance to be a successful company. Apple will never ever try to compete against devices that are not designed to make a profit, it's delusional to think that they will. What is the point of selling a product at cost when you already have a strong foothold in the tablet market?

I'm not saying they should pull a Google and sell an iPad Mini at cost. I'm saying if they can put together an iPad mini using a generation old internals and leave some features(retina, back camera) and use Apples massive buying power to get components cheaper that they can do it for cheaper than Google. It's costing Google $185 to build the Nexus tablet. I don't think it's unthinkable for Apple to match that at worst, so they should be able to beat fairly easily. $250 would be an Apple like 36% profit margin. The cheaper they can bring their costs down the cheaper they can sell it for at their margins.

Steve Jobs didn't like the size and Apple couldn't build one at their level of quality for much cheaper than the full size iPad. Times have changed. They have older hardware that will do the job for less money than iPad 3 hardware. A retina screen isn't needed. I think they can do it. Obviously they are looking real hard at it for a reason.
 
I'm not saying they should pull a Google and sell an iPad Mini at cost. I'm saying if they can put together an iPad mini using a generation old internals and leave some features(retina, back camera) and use Apples massive buying power to get components cheaper that they can do it for cheaper than Google. It's costing Google $185 to build the Nexus tablet. I don't think it's unthinkable for Apple to match that at worst, so they should be able to beat fairly easily. $250 would be an Apple like 36% profit margin. The cheaper they can bring their costs down the cheaper they can sell it for at their margins.

Steve Jobs didn't like the size and Apple couldn't build one at their level of quality for much cheaper than the full size iPad. Times have changed. They have older hardware that will do the job for less money than iPad 3 hardware. A retina screen isn't needed. I think they can do it. Obviously they are looking real hard at it for a reason.

The Kindle and Google tablets lack cameras and cellular capability and they're down to 8GB of flash storage. I genuinely don't see Apple competing in that way. There's genuinely no upside to introducing a new device that lacks the functionality that Apple's touting for their new devices. And if they do match the functionality then there's a huge percentage of the consumer base that says "why should I spend $499 just for a little more screen real estate." It's just a stupid idea.

That's not to suggest that Apple won't introduce a smaller device at some point, just not in the way a lot of posters here are thinking.

And let's not forget that Amazon and others are still planning on introducing their own 10" tablets. Apple needs to keep its focus on maintaining sales in its established market, not trying to tap into unprofitable ones.
 
If you still think tweeners are useful, delusional thinking is fine I guess... but other than that, they won't fragment iOS with another screen size.[/B]

The only part of this discussion that is fact based, is how the current iPad's screen size can de scaled down to the point where it won't fragment iOS, and how that screen size relates to average hand and pocket size, and how that can affect it's usefulness.
Speculation on pricing, and opinions about what Apple should do, and rumors about what it might be doing are different things entirely, and only cloud the the central fact based part above.


Let me ask everyone of you something: how many of you use a 7" tablet? Let the lies begin... ;)

There simply hasn't been a 7" tablet released yet that's even worth looking at for anyone who would be interested in a 7.85" iPad. The Nexus 7 is starting to come close, and there's a Samsung that hasn't been released yet either. Your question has no relevance.

"Culture crash"

Back to "A Serious Man" again...
 
There all ready is an iPad mini, they call it the iPod touch, and the version that can make calls is called the iPhone, i think you mean there will not be an iPad midi.
 
Truth ... http://mashable.com/2012/07/05/ipad-min-bad/

I don't like the idea of an iPad Mini and the idea that Apple would even seriously entertain the notion.

Look, I always thought of the iPad as the most personal computer ever invented. I do, however, see that it draws a fine line between PC and toy. Games, brilliant. Video, brilliant. Social apps, brilliant. eReader, brilliant. Productivity apps ... not all of them that great. It's, ironically but maybe notsomuch, an MS Suite of apps away from being the ideal alternative to a notebook. Making it smaller brings it closer to a toy, which I don't think was Steve's intention.

I'm very much against this.

----------

There all ready is an iPad mini, they call it the iPod touch, and the version that can make calls is called the iPhone, i think you mean there will not be an iPad midi.

iPad MIDI!!! That'd be amazing. :cool:
 
Truth ... http://mashable.com/2012/07/05/ipad-min-bad/

I don't like the idea of an iPad Mini and the idea that Apple would even seriously entertain the notion.

Look, I always thought of the iPad as the most personal computer ever invented. I do, however, see that it draws a fine line between PC and toy. Games, brilliant. Video, brilliant. Social apps, brilliant. eReader, brilliant. Productivity apps ... not all of them that great. It's, ironically but maybe notsomuch, an MS Suite of apps away from being the ideal alternative to a notebook. Making it smaller brings it closer to a toy, which I don't think was Steve's intention.

I'm very much against this.


So basically he channels the late Steve Jobs and then adds this contradictory gem.

Peter P said:
For developers, things get even worse. Now they’ll have to redesign their iOS apps for another screen size. Since Apple would likely simply use the same resolution as its previous iPads, this won’t be too burdensome, but it does mean they’ll have to update and support that implementation of their app as if it were new — and for longer than they probably thought.


The first sentence proclaims the developers need to "redesign" their apps. Then he goes on to admit that the resolution doesn't change and won't be too burdensome.

When people stop trying to create imaginary bogeymen and just look at the varied needs of computer users across the globe the truth becomes clear that having a smaller iPad isn't a bad thing for everyone.
 
It's, ironically but maybe notsomuch, an MS Suite of apps away from being the ideal alternative to a notebook.

Just to be clear, I'm fine with the way things are. But should MS release Office for iPad, whether my fellow Macheads want to admit this or not, I believe iPad sales will go through the roof and successfully reach the business market in a way no other Mac or wannabe tablet has.

But do we need MS Office on the iPad? About as much as we need an iPad Mini.

----------

The first sentence proclaims the developers need to "redesign" their apps. Then he goes on to admit that the resolution doesn't change and won't be too burdensome.

When people stop trying to create imaginary bogeymen and just look at the varied needs of computer users across the globe the truth becomes clear that having a smaller iPad isn't a bad thing for everyone.

Right ... that's the one part of the article that puzzled me too. I don't think all apps need to be redesigned, but even apps that were designed specifically for the new iPad's retina display? Are we sure that won't be necessary? (I'm not arguing with you ... I'm honestly asking.)

Every other part of that article, however, I completely agree with.
 
"Culture crash"

Back to "A Serious Man" again...

Discussing tweeners as a form factor is one thing. If you still think anybody needs these things fine. They don't, but keep thinking it.

The bottom line aside from this: Apple will NOT fragment iOS, and to do an iPad Mini they must fragment with resolution.

I will take the bet. I will voluntarily take a 30 day ban from this place and pay each one of you $100 who publicly takes the bet. The bet is that Apple will not release an iPad Mini in year 2012. We mark Jan. 1, 2013 on our calendars and come back here and collect. Dec. 31, 11:59 am is the cut off for Apple releasing an iPad Mini. That is, it must be shipping. No rumours. No speculation. No anything. Either it's on the market or not.

If I win, each person here who takes the bet will pay me $100 and take a 30 day ban from this place.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.