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No thanks

Surprised at quickly people put their whole lives on a phone in the name of convenience. Smartphone are so have more security holes than a computer they are a small device people forget, lose, have stolen, dropped and given to ???? to fix and install all sorts of cheap app giving them access to contacts, location, mic's and camera to get another app they will probably stop using in two weeks. As pointed out in a security seminar I was at people will question someone they are talking to directly at a bank of business, but not think twice about installing mysterious app's.

Then you have Apple with iPhone, Apple Watch, Apple Card, computers, and various services monitoring knowing everything about you. That just Apple, Google and other major corporations are collecting your data. People will complain about the government invading their privacy but major corporations today are far worse than the government.

As I said in the beginning no thanks.

Except that your wallet is not secure and all your private business is already connected to the internet by those businesses.

You are far more likely to suffer loss through those two channels than via your iPhone.

I’m amazed by folks who give up secure convenience for imagined security.
 
It would be useful at Harris Teeter when they strangely card me for beer after giving me my senior discount.
 
  1. Financial information that is private - most people don't want others knowing about such information
  2. Your gay contacts if you're in a state that uh, frowns upon such things
  3. Your upcoming trip to a state where you're allowed to have an abortion (sigh)
  4. ....too many other things that are just nobody else's business
This is a question of privacy and human dignity --- it has nothing whatsoever to do with what might or might not be (or should be) legal

The classic "I've got nothing to hide" argument is just total nonsense.

To quote the highly regarded expert on security and privacy, Bruce Schneier (look him up!)

Privacy is an inherent human right, and a requirement for maintaining the human condition with dignity and respect
Those are all true concerns but not relevant here. This is not about handing an unlocked phone to a cop, despite what some people here are saying. This is more like using Apple Pay where you authenticate and bring up the card but the phone remains locked.
 
As a Marylander, it's cool to be able to use this on my iPhone. I have yet to use it for anything but, still, neat little feature.
 


Earlier this year, Apple launched a feature allowing residents of participating U.S. states to add their driver's license or state ID to the Wallet app on the iPhone and Apple Watch, providing a convenient and contactless way to display proof of identity or age.

apple-wallet-drivers-license-feature.jpg

As we wait for IDs in the Wallet app to expand to additional U.S. states, here is everything you need to know about how the feature works.

Which U.S. states support the feature so far?
Which U.S. states are committed to supporting the feature?

In March, Apple said the additional 10 states listed below would "soon" allow residents to add their driver's license or state ID to the Wallet app, but it's unclear exactly when each state plans to roll out support for the feature.
  • Colorado
  • Connecticut
  • Georgia
  • Hawaii
  • Iowa
  • Kentucky
  • Mississippi
  • Ohio
  • Oklahoma
  • Utah
Apple said the feature will also be supported in Puerto Rico.

Last year, Apple executive Jennifer Bailey said the company was "already in discussions with many more states" and working to offer the feature nationwide in the future. Apple has yet to announce any plans to expand the feature to other countries.

Note that some states like Florida and Louisiana offer iPhone driver's licenses through their own state-operated apps, separate from this Wallet app feature.

Where can IDs in the Wallet app be used?

Apple-Wallet-ID-TSA.jpg

Driver's licenses and state ID cards stored in the Wallet app can currently be used at select TSA checkpoints within three U.S. airports:
  • Baltimore/Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport (BWI)
  • Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport (DCA)
  • Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport (PHX)
Apple says travelers should refer to TSA checkpoint signage to confirm availability of the feature.

Starting with iOS 16, you are able to present ID cards stored in the Wallet app in supported iPhone apps that require identity or age verification. Apple showed Uber Eats and Turo as two examples of apps that could offer this functionality.

Apple's website previously said IDs in the Wallet app would also be available for use at select retailers and venues in the future.

The feature does not replace a physical ID in all situations yet. For example, Apple makes no mention of IDs in the Wallet app being accepted by law enforcement or the government, so carrying a physical ID is still a necessity for now.

Which iPhone and Apple Watch models are supported?

The feature requires an iPhone 8 or newer running iOS 15.4 or later. If used on the Apple Watch, the feature requires a Series 4 model or newer running watchOS 8.4 or later.

For security purposes, Face ID or Touch ID must be enabled on the iPhone, and the device's region must be set to the United States. An Apple ID account with two-factor authentication turned on is also required.

How do I add my driver's license or ID to the Wallet app?

iPhone-Wallet-ID-Setup.jpg

In participating states, you can simply tap the "+" button in the top-right corner of the Wallet app and follow the on-screen instructions to add your driver's license or state ID to the iPhone and a paired Apple Watch. The process involves scanning the front and back of your driver's license or ID card, confirming your identity by taking a photo of your face, and completing a series of facial and head movements.

You can add only one license or ID to one iPhone and one paired Apple Watch at a time.

How do I use an ID stored in the Wallet app?

To present an ID stored in the Wallet app at participating TSA checkpoints, simply tap your iPhone or Apple Watch on the identity reader. A prompt on the device will display the specific information being requested by the TSA, such as your name and date of birth, and this information is only released after you authenticate with Face ID or Touch ID. A checkmark appears on the screen when you successfully present your license or ID.

You do not need to unlock, show, or hand over your device to a TSA officer to present your ID in the Wallet app, according to Apple.

Is the feature secure?

Apple says identity data is encrypted and that neither Apple nor the state issuing authority can see when and where you use your license or ID in the Wallet app. And if your device is locked when you present your ID, it stays locked afterwards.

Apple has a detailed privacy and security overview of the feature on its website with more details.

Article Link: These 10 U.S. States Will Let You Add Your Driver's License to Your iPhone
Yeah but when will these 10 states have it available?! I still see Arizona and Maryland. Even though i’m in CO. Basically this article tells us nothing new
 
  1. Financial information that is private - most people don't want others knowing about such information
  2. Your gay contacts if you're in a state that uh, frowns upon such things
  3. Your upcoming trip to a state where you're allowed to have an abortion (sigh)
  4. ....too many other things that are just nobody else's business
This is a question of privacy and human dignity --- it has nothing whatsoever to do with what might or might not be (or should be) legal

The classic "I've got nothing to hide" argument is just total nonsense.

To quote the highly regarded expert on security and privacy, Bruce Schneier (look him up!)

Privacy is an inherent human right, and a requirement for maintaining the human condition with dignity and respect
How would anyone see your financial information behind a face-locked app?

How does one differentiate their 'straight' contacts from the gay ones? Do you specifically tag them as 'gay'? Maybe stop doing that?

Why would anyone assume you were driving to get an abortion?

Two out of three of your 'reasons' are ridiculous at best and basically adds up to 'no one's business'. You should have just said that.
 
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You can thank the 9/11 hijackers for that transactional limitation. Cash and coin is frankly a dying medium. It won't last so long as we have computing infrastructure behind everything.
Solid physical currency is absolutely essential in a society. Everything digital can go away entirely and we will still function. Our societal foundations ought not be eroded as everything digital has the capacity to weaken us and worse, erodes individual liberty and sovereignty.
 
Was very excited about this at first but then read a hypothetical realistic scenario someone described.
The cops could get all friendly and say “My handheld scanner doesn’t seem to be working. Would you mind handing over your phone? I’ll just quickly scan on my in-car scanner. Can you please also unlock it so I don’t lose the app? Otherwise I need to file some report for missing documents and we’d need to get a hearing etc. Instead, if you just give me the phone, we’d be done in 5 mins.”

Of course everyone thinks they are not gullible but cops do this for a living. They can word it much better to make it sound convincing.
Nowhere does it even suggest you won’t have a physical license. I want this feature to simply prove my ID when asked. I think most people would be reluctant (at least) to hand over their phone to a leo. I also imagine the license app would be accessible through the same route as your emergency info. You don’t have to unlock to get to that.
 
How would anyone see your financial information behind a face-locked app?

How does one differentiate their 'straight' contacts from the gay ones? Do you specifically tag them as 'gay'? Maybe stop doing that?

Why would anyone assume you were driving to get an abortion?

Two out of three of your 'reasons' are ridiculous at best and basically adds up to 'no one's business'. You should have just said that.

I have three gay people in my contacts list and none of them are listed as "IIGS' GAY FRIEND".

I have no idea where abortion clinics are in my own state, let alone the next state over. Or anywhere else. Not for any other reason than I have no need for an abortion.

To give you an idea about how insular and obtuse people can be (meaning me and my SO) we drove to see family in another state this weekend, and wanted to procure a pizza from a local establishment that said family likes before we came. Of course we had to use Siri and maps to find it, even though we knew the name of it and the general location. I don't know where the local pizza joint is, let alone an abortion clinic.


Some patrol cop in New Berlin, OH isn't looking at a phone on a car stop and seeing the address for an abortion clinic Bethel Springs, PA and going "HOT DAMN, I GOT ME AN ABORTION RUNNER HERE, CALL THE MORALITY SQUAD NOW!" or

"GAY FRIENDS! THIS PERSON HAS GAY FRIENDS! GET THE DETECTIVES RIGHT AWAY!".

That's assuming the cop actually got access to your contact list on a car stop, had reason to look at it, and could figure out who your gay friends were with the snap of a finger.


I also kinda think it's been lost on some people that the entirety of people working in law enforcement don't think and act as some sort of hive mind. Many of them are gay, liberal, pro abortion, or come from those backgrounds.

It seems easy to lump all of "those people" together when we're not one of "those people" while criticizing "those people" because we think they're all the same. Which makes us as crappy as the people we are trying to project our crappy behavior on, if not worse.
 
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Nowhere does it even suggest you won’t have a physical license. I want this feature to simply prove my ID when asked. I think most people would be reluctant (at least) to hand over their phone to a leo. I also imagine the license app would be accessible through the same route as your emergency info. You don’t have to unlock to get to that.
The Wallet ID system needs your authentication to work. It doesn’t just give out your license, even in emergency. If it did work without authorization people would be able to use it as a fake ID by stealing someone’s phone.

When you use your license or ID, you need to authenticate with the Face ID or Touch ID associated with your license or ID before your iPhone presents your information to the identity reader.

It’s basically Apple Pay but with your license. You also don’t hand your phone over, you scan it to a reader (NFC) and they see the information on their screen. But currently, no law enforcement agency takes it but TSA. Some states have made a separate app with their IDs, and they had to change their laws to make so that the officer QR code scans your screen and you don’t hand anything over.
 
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The last thing I’d do during a traffic stop is to willingly turn my iPhone over to a police officer. I’ll opt for keeping my license physically separate, thank you.
 
The last thing I’d do during a traffic stop is to willingly turn my iPhone over to a police officer. I’ll opt for keeping my license physically separate, thank you.
sure, but there is no expectation that you are handing an unlocked phone to an office. The phone remains locked. At most you are holding it up to a handheld scanner like used for payments. The process would be similar to making payment with Apple Pay at a terminal.

If fact, so far this has only been rolled out to some TSA stations on a trial basis. The individual states are still working through their procedures to use this in a more widespread fashion. I would expect to still be carrying a physical card for a while. Eventually it is almost inevitable that these will be moving to digital.
 
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Was very excited about this at first but then read a hypothetical realistic scenario someone described.
The cops could get all friendly and say “My handheld scanner doesn’t seem to be working. Would you mind handing over your phone? I’ll just quickly scan on my in-car scanner. Can you please also unlock it so I don’t lose the app? Otherwise I need to file some report for missing documents and we’d need to get a hearing etc. Instead, if you just give me the phone, we’d be done in 5 mins.”

Of course everyone thinks they are not gullible but cops do this for a living. They can word it much better to make it sound convincing.

I think about this as a connivence option for other areas such as airports. You’re already likely using a mobile ticket.

Many states allow showing mobile proof of car insurance. In general if pulled over I’m not giving a cop my phone. I’d give the actual copies of the needed docs. If for nothing else it limits the chance of them dropping my phone.
 
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I must not "get it" but what could you have on your phone that you would be afraid of law enforcement seeing?

Planning a bank heist?
Drug deal?
Surely you’ve seen the slow but steady uptick in police overuse of illegal search techniques? Once they have you pulled over, if given the chance they will go beyond the prescribed DL check. I’m all for this app and the ability to supplement my physical license, but I’m not naive enough to presume police won’t try to use it improperly; at least occasionally. I’ll always have a physical DL in my car to present to an officer when needed.

Here is a plausible scenario - hypothetical. We drove to visit my sister in law near DC two weeks ago. While there I bought some THC gummies. Perfectly legal there. Maybe one dropped between the seats, or maybe I still have some elsewhere in my car. The reason doesn’t matter, but living in a non-cannabis legal state, I get pulled over for speeding. Everything is completely routine, but the cop somehow accesses a receipt or text indicating that I’ve recently purchased the stuff. He comes back and requests permission to search my car. Whether I say yes or no, the cop now has reason to ask. And they WILL search either with my permission on the spot, or with a dog and a warrant after I’ve been detained on the roadside for the past two hours. No thanks. I’ll take my speeding ticket and be on my way. This is only one scenario of dozens that are completely foreseeable. With the concurrent use of civil forfeiture, and the boon it’s been for police departments, I’m not giving anyone any reason or extra ability to deny my rights.
 
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Oh boy, I can't wait to argue with customers trying to use this to buy alcohol and tobacco products. That's going to be fun.
Don’t you imagine that each perspective state will adopt the license app as an adequate form of ID? If it’s trustworthy enough to use as proof of eligibility to drive, it’s certainly adequate for buying a beer.
 
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Surely you’ve seen the slow but steady uptick in police overuse of illegal search techniques? Once they have you pulled over, if given the chance they will go beyond the prescribed DL check. I’m all for this app and the ability to supplement my physical license, but I’m not naive enough to presume police won’t try to use it improperly; at least occasionally. I’ll always have a physical DL in my car to present to an officer when needed.

Here is a plausible scenario - hypothetical. We drove to visit my sister in law near DC two weeks ago. While there I bought some THC gummies. Perfectly legal there. Maybe one dropped between the seats, or maybe I still have some elsewhere in my car. The reason doesn’t matter, but living in a non-cannabis legal state, I get pulled over for speeding. Everything is completely routine, but the cop somehow accesses a receipt or text indicating that I’ve recently purchased the stuff. He comes back and requests permission to search my car. Whether I say yes or no, the cop now has reason to ask. And they WILL search either with my permission on the spot, or with a dog and a warrant after I’ve been detained on the roadside for the past two hours. No thanks. I’ll take my speeding ticket and be on my way. This is only one scenario of dozens that are completely foreseeable. With the concurrent use of civil forfeiture, and the boon it’s been for police departments, I’m not giving anyone any reason or extra ability to deny my rights.
You like other people seem to be going out of your way to deliberately misunderstand this technology.

You never hand your phone to anyone. Ever. You scan it to an NFC reader. They see the stuff on their screen. That's it. They never see your texts, your emails, etc.

If they say they need your phone, you refuse. There is no need to give them anything, and in fact the states that implemented digital driver's licenses (not this system because this is TSA only, no police department accepts this system) had to go out of their way to change their laws to only require you to scan your phone (via QR code) for a cop to get your license, but you hand nothing over to them, it's not necessary and not required by law if you use digital ID.
 
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Surely you’ve seen the slow but steady uptick in police overuse of illegal search techniques? Once they have you pulled over, if given the chance they will go beyond the prescribed DL check. I’m all for this app and the ability to supplement my physical license, but I’m not naive enough to presume police won’t try to use it improperly; at least occasionally. I’ll always have a physical DL in my car to present to an officer when needed.

Here is a plausible scenario - hypothetical. We drove to visit my sister in law near DC two weeks ago. While there I bought some THC gummies. Perfectly legal there. Maybe one dropped between the seats, or maybe I still have some elsewhere in my car. The reason doesn’t matter, but living in a non-cannabis legal state, I get pulled over for speeding. Everything is completely routine, but the cop somehow accesses a receipt or text indicating that I’ve recently purchased the stuff. He comes back and requests permission to search my car. Whether I say yes or no, the cop now has reason to ask. And they WILL search either with my permission on the spot, or with a dog and a warrant after I’ve been detained on the roadside for the past two hours. No thanks. I’ll take my speeding ticket and be on my way. This is only one scenario of dozens that are completely foreseeable. With the concurrent use of civil forfeiture, and the boon it’s been for police departments, I’m not giving anyone any reason or extra ability to deny my rights.
Nothing about this new digital license would give the police access to those receipts or texts. You phone remains locked. You may not even need to let them touch it. If you have used Apple Pay at a terminal, it will be more like that.
 
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Don’t you imagine that each perspective state will adopt the license app as an adequate form of ID? If it’s trustworthy enough to use as proof of eligibility to drive, it’s certainly adequate for buying a beer.
No, I don't, not in the near future. I don't see the states all teaming up with Apple to provide every cop on the roads with scanners compatible with the Wallet app just because. I definitely don't see the states investing to provide every bar and gas station with this technology so they can mandate that we accept the Wallet app as a valid form of ID. Maybe some higher-tech bars and gas stations here and there will have it, but it'll be a long long time before you can expect to buy alcohol anywhere you want without a physical ID.
 
If anybody is wondering about Utah... yeah, Apple announced a while back (clearly too early? preliminary?) that Utah was adopting their digital drivers license model. I called the Utah Drivers License division to find out more. They wouldn't own up to who ever had said that or how it got announced. The impression I got was, there are no CURRENT plans to work with Apple Wallet. Maybe somebody made some back-room deal with a friend of theirs (wouldn't be out of place in Utah, right?) but when it then came out publicly, those in charge pushed for more of an open solution.

Whatever the course of past events, Utah now appears to have changed gears and is working with GETMobileID... see https://mobiledl.us. Looks (to me) like the system is fairly secure, also cross-platform, and... well, yeah, a little clunky compared to the typical stuff in Apple Wallet. Hopefully (eventually) they will integrate with Apple Wallet too, so my ID can be right there next to my boarding pass at the airport. But until then, it's not too bad to just switch apps. :)
 
Here is a plausible scenario - hypothetical. [...] Everything is completely routine, but the cop somehow accesses a receipt or text indicating that I’ve recently purchased the stuff. He comes back and requests permission to search my car.
People keep proposing "plausible scenarios" that go heavy on the extraneous details and completely miss how the technology is designed to work - so they're not even the slightest bit plausible.

What Apple is offering is a system where the drivers license comes up like a credit card in Apple Pay. There is NO WAY for a cop to go rummaging around in your phone at that point - the phone isn't unlocked - all they can do is look at the drivers license that's filling up the screen. All they can do is scan whatever QR code or NFC tag the phone is presenting, and/or read a number off the screen. And in at least some of the states, the laws are specifically written so the officer cannot touch your phone. So this "the cop somehow accesses a receipt" garbage is just pure fiction. You might as well take the phone out of the "plausible scenario" and say the cop scans your car with his x-ray vision and detects the gummy bear that way.
 
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You like other people seem to be going out of your way to deliberately misunderstand this technology.

You never hand your phone to anyone. Ever. You scan it to an NFC reader. They see the stuff on their screen. That's it. They never see your texts, your emails, etc.

If they say they need your phone, you refuse. There is no need to give them anything, and in fact the states that implemented digital driver's licenses (not this system because this is TSA only, no police department accepts this system) had to go out of their way to change their laws to only require you to scan your phone (via QR code) for a cop to get your license, but you hand nothing over to them, it's not necessary and not required by law if you use digital ID.
You should try reading with the intent to understand instead of argue. I stated as much in my post. I would never hand over my phone. On the other hand, if you’ve got kids, perhaps you’ve seen that they can figure out all sorts of methods of accessing at least parts of your phone’s data. Also, how about the more than a few people who don’t pick their phones? You don’t want to see any scenario where your privacy might be compromised; intentionally or by accident. Good for you. I don’t live in that world.
 
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