These Apple CarPlay Ultra Partners Now Say They Won't Support It

[riverscott58]

Car manufacturers are looking forward to adding more self-driving aspects to the car. Once that set in, the "driver" and passengers are basically a captive audience for advertising and consumption. The "In-car services" then seem incredibly valuable. But, people might just bring their iPads into the car. The car companies will try to build their antennas in such a way that the connection through their system is far superior to the cellular on you phone/iPad.

 

[escargot3]

Have you used the most recent cars? My 2025 Toyota Camry has dual 12.3” screens, one for the instrument cluster and one for the infotainment system.

Yes, and the interface is still garbage and tacky

 

[EugW]

Yes, and the interface is still garbage and tacky

IMO the instrument cluster on the 2025 Camry is decent. The infotainment system sucks, but I already have regular CarPlay for that.

And I have real buttons for climate control.

 

[macfacts]

Apple doesn't even let you do much customization or theming on the iPhone but people think/expect they are getting that with car play ultra, 🤣

 

[macfacts]

I care because have you used the interfaces from these cars? Also, the Apple would be able to add themes/new items as long as you have an iPhone vs. the carmaker not doing anything.

I get carmakers don't want to give up control though - but their behavior won't benefit the customer in this scenario.

Apple offers zero customization/theming with the iPhone, what makes you think car play ultra will have that?

 

[frenchcamp49er]

Let’s face it, Apple have probably given largely unfavourable terms for CarPlay ultra.

Looks like they may have to relax the rules a little to get even a little support. Isn’t it only Aston Martin that have signed up so far?

Name the unfavorable terms.

 

[hagar]

I can understand this. IF they have their own great platforms. But Mercedes has the worst platform you can imagine. They should be glad someone wants to step in to fix their broken UI.

 

[Stromos]

Not all of them. The ux and overall interface/implementation in my Teslas is amazing and worlds better than carplay

You own a phone you likely already pay for music streaming. Why out of the kindness of your heart are you giving Tesla money?.

I will never understand paying double because it’s the “car version”.

 

[frenchcamp49er]

I can understand this. IF they have their own great platforms. But Mercedes has the worst platform you can imagine. They should be glad someone wants to step in to fix their broken UI.

I haven’t seen one that compares to the Aston videos I’ve seen. Toyota looks good but still doesn’t compare

 

[twistedpixel8]

It makes no sense that Audi would back out if Porsche is still doing it. They're both part of VW.

Completely different target markets though. And they’re run very differently, just got the same momma.

 

[ZMacintosh]

Apple needs to stop spreading itself thin and focus on fewer things that are stronger.

If I was a car manufacturer, I would be looking at CarPlay and questioning how often Apple would even update it.

Apple's CarPlay / CarOS has been very consistent and stable and makes it great especially for those traveling where using a different vehicle type then your own it brings a consistency without having to learn another OS entirely as every car has so many idiosyncrasies and learning curves when youre hurrying up just trying to start the damn thing lol.

 

[HylianKnight]

I would like the option, but I would like it more if apple spends a bit more time and money developing and improving regular CarPlay

 

[AppleTO]

My ONLY issue with CarPlay is that I have to leave the interface to access local settings like AC and radio. Integrate that stuff, and start there. That’s what I really want.

The other stuff is nice like a more unified experience and just a more modern look. I have a 2 year old car, but the interface looks brighter but not much different than cars from a decade ago. But I could live without it.

100% agree. If anything, I would like regular CarPlay to fill in the control gaps in the infotainment system. Radio, SiriusXM, USB, settings, climate (if applicable), etc. I don't care about it extending to other displays.

 

[Orange Bat]

or we can, you know, vote with our wallets and not buy cars unless they offer CarPlay Ultra.

That won’t be easy to do since no cars I can afford will have CarPlay Ultra

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Well neither of you know what law you think this would violate So is no hypocrisy here…

Ah yes, the plot twist we didn’t see coming the same folks who think the DMA is an authoritarian overreach now want the European Commission to forcibly install CarPlay Ultra into every car. Incredible.

So just to recap:

• When the EU says, “Hey Apple, maybe let users install a different browser or use another app store,” it’s Big Government tyranny.
• But when Apple doesn’t get its way with full-screen dashboard control, suddenly it’s time for EU antitrust cavalry to ride in and protect consumer choice?

Look, I actually agree that CarPlay Ultra should be an option. The UX is excellent, and consumers would benefit. But this isn’t a gatekeeping case. Apple isn’t being excluded by a dominant platform

European Hypocrisy at its Finest

Europe sues Apple under the DMA for offering too few options on iPhones - forcing them to open up to third-party app stores in the name of "consumer choice". But when Apple tries to bring a better, more unified experience to cars - where the software UX is still often clunky and fragmented - suddenly it's overreach"? Where are your antitrust principles now, Europe? Car manufacturers want to protect their own broken infotainment systems and revenue streams - and that’s allowed? This double standard is laughable.

Well call me shocked I tell you, why do the carmakers seem to adopt Android auto instead? What ”antitrust” is practiced here? Can you use CarPlay not just the ultra version? But Poor Apple they just wanted full-screen control of your dashboard, and those evil carmakers dared to say no! Clearly a textbook abuse: let’s file under Article 102 for refusal to deal, and under 101 for concerted carmaker shenanigans. Europe, where’s our antitrust cavalry?

Not forgetting EU hasn’t sued Apple… with the actual market share.

Time for the EU to come in and force the car companies to offer CarPlay! What's good for the goose is good for the gander, right? And the EU is all about promoting competition, right? I paid for the car, I should be able to run whatever software I want on it, right?

Or is it just "gatekeeping" when American companies do it?

Yes! Let’s do it. Let’s file a complaint with the Commission: Hello? EU Competition Directorate? Apple isn’t being allowed to colonize every infotainment system in Europe. Please save them. After all, I paid for the car, so surely I have the right to run Apple’s proprietary software on it under penalty of EU competition law, no less. Justice for infotainment, comrades.

If anything, this episode proves Apple isn’t being discriminated against it’s just discovering what it feels like to negotiate from a non-gatekeeper position for once.

 

[surferfb]

• When the EU says, “Hey Apple, maybe let users install a different browser or use another app store,” it’s Big Government tyranny.
• But when Apple doesn’t get its way with full-screen dashboard control, suddenly it’s time for EU antitrust cavalry to ride in and protect consumer choice?

In case it wasn’t abundantly obvious, I don’t agree with forcing the car makers to accept CarPlay Ultra. It’d be government overreach. I glad you’re picking up on the EU’s hypocrisy though!

Look, I actually agree that CarPlay Ultra should be an option. The UX is excellent, and consumers would benefit. But this isn’t a gatekeeping case. Apple isn’t being excluded by a dominant platform

It’s about competition! The carmakers are stifling innovation and causing prices to rise because they don’t want to compete with Apple. I’ll even state without evidence that they’re secretly colluding, like Apple and Google are accused of on here without evidence.

Sound familiar?

Well call me shocked I tell you, why do the carmakers seem to adopt Android auto instead? What ”antitrust” is practiced here? Can you use CarPlay not just the ultra version? But Poor Apple they just wanted full-screen control of your dashboard, and those evil carmakers dared to say no! Clearly a textbook abuse: let’s file under Article 102 for refusal to deal, and under 101 for concerted carmaker shenanigans. Europe, where’s our antitrust cavalry?

It’s blatant hypocrisy. I’m glad you agree government intervention would be ridiculous though.

Not forgetting EU hasn’t sued Apple… with the actual market share.
View attachment 2523210

Apple has 28%, and must open up. So why can’t we force VW Group with 26% market share to open up? Or is that percentage anticompetitive only when a EU company doesn’t have it?

Come to think of it, that would explain why Spotify got out of being named a gatekeeper.

Yes! Let’s do it. Let’s file a complaint with the Commission: Hello? EU Competition Directorate? Apple isn’t being allowed to colonize every infotainment system in Europe. Please save them. After all, I paid for the car, so surely I have the right to run Apple’s proprietary software on it under penalty of EU competition law, no less. Justice for infotainment, comrades.

I mean, that’s your theory with iOS. Despite 28% market share every developer and accessory maker deserves access to Apple’s customers and technology. So Apple deserves access to VW Group’s 26% of the market!

 

[B4U]

So you think apples solution would be free?
How many apple services are you already paying for ?

I like that the manufactures stay their ground and won’t let apple in.

All manufactures have their own style- better keep that instead of going the one fits all route.




Go buy an Aston Martin then. Nobody holds you back

You may be surprised. I am not paying any Apple subscription services and knows I may be a weirdo. 🤣
The manufacturers can keep their own style, but having this is giving the customer a choice.
I am not gonna spend time learning a completely different UI in a rental for example.

 

[EugW]

I get the impression Apple overplayed their hand. They managed to get CarPlay installed on the majority of new cars out there so they figured they could go another step further with CarPlay Ultra. However, Apple is notoriously rigid with their approach to things and also loves to extract as much money/advantage as possible from its partners. Often they can do it because they have the leverage, but I wonder if in this case Apple overestimated public sentiment and car manufacturer desire for a more advanced CarPlay, yet negotiated from that perspective.

IMO consumer demand for CarPlay Ultra just isn’t that high. Pretty much the world’s response to CarPlay Ultra was “Hey, that’s kinda cool” and then everyone went on with their lives.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

In case it wasn’t abundantly obvious, I don’t agree with forcing the car makers to accept CarPlay Ultra. It’d be government overreach. I glad you’re picking up on the EU’s hypocrisy though!

It’s about competition! The carmakers are stifling innovation and causing prices to rise because they don’t want to compete with Apple. I’ll even state without evidence that they’re secretly colluding, like Apple and Google are accused of on here without evidence.

Sound familiar?

If it wasn’t blatantly obvious I’m sarcastic because non of the issues you mentioned is under anti competitive laws. Google paying Apple to implement Google search as a standard is illegal yes.

There zero price rise related to CarPlay being allowed or not considering everything is done on the iphone

It’s blatant hypocrisy. I’m glad you agree government intervention would be ridiculous though.


Apple has 28%, and must open up. So why can’t we force VW Group with 26% market share to open up? Or is that percentage anticompetitive only when a EU company doesn’t have it?

Come to think of it, that would explain why Spotify got out of being named a gatekeeper.


I mean, that’s your theory with iOS. Despite 28% market share every developer and accessory maker deserves access to Apple’s customers and technology. So Apple deserves access to VW Group’s 26% of the market!

Because none of the car makers are a gatekeeper to neither consumers nor providers. While actually having 11 other major car manufacturers competing directly with them. The percentage is of little relevance.

Spotify wasn’t called a gatekeeper because they aren’t gatekeeping nor doing any anti competitive behavior. They could have 100% of the market and I would have a hard time pointing to anything they do that goes against article 101 or 102 or anything in a hypothetical DMA.

 

[Anaxarxes]

I don't think you quite understand how CarPlay Ulta works...

CarPlay Ultra is a wrapper that runs on top of a car OS with some elements already running natively on the car and requires an iPhone to work with.

However when running CarPlay ultra "OS" you need to revert back to AML OS on aston martin if you have android auto, meaning CarPlay ultra does not run without an iPhone, and even if it did, it cannot run android auto with it.

So CarPlay Ultra either needs to be an open source OS that supports multitde of platforms, or stay a glorified OS wrapper where not car company will see added value other than a more complex system that does provide limited added value from a standard CarPlay funcitionality.

So let me know if my info is inaccurate?

 

[surferfb]

There zero price rise related to CarPlay being allowed or not considering everything is done on the iphone

You have no proof of that. Maybe competition in infotainment systems means car companies have to further compete on price. That’s the argument for regulating access to Apple’s platform.

Because none of the car makers are a gatekeeper to neither consumers nor providers. While actually having 11 other major car manufacturers competing directly with them. The percentage is of little relevance.

If Android was instead 10 different companies with over 5 of the market the DMA as written would still apply to Apple. Because it’s based on number of users, not percentages or number of companies in the market. So open up VW!

Spotify wasn’t called a gatekeeper because they aren’t gatekeeping nor doing any anti competitive behavior. They could have 100% of the market and I would have a hard time pointing to anything they do that goes against article 101 or 102 or anything in a hypothetical DMA.

Spotify isn’t a gatekeeper because the EU corruptly didn’t list them as one, despite naming YouTube as a gatekeeper.

Does Spotify let me easily export my playlists to Spotify so I can easily import them to Apple Music? Are musicians and record companies not business users that rely on Spotify to reach customers? Do they let me use Apple’s algorithm instead of their own?

Anyways, this is off topic, so I’m not going to engage further. I’m glad you agree draconian government interference in the market is bad when it happens in industries the EU competes in though, if you could just taken the next step and understand it’s bad when it happens in tech too, we’d be in business!

 

[JosephAW]

600 million?! Population of the US is 340 million….?

The pushback comes despite standard CarPlay's overwhelming popularity – Apple claims 98% of new US cars include standard CarPlay, with drivers using it over 600 million times daily.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

You have no proof of that. Maybe competition in infotainment systems means car companies have to further compete on price. That’s the argument for regulating access to Apple’s platform.

And neither does you. So leave a complaint about anti competitive practices for the EU commission to open up an investigation. Perhaps even go to the French government and say how anticompetitive the German WW group is.

But currently we don’t know because CarPlay ultra doesn’t exist on the market yet or why they suddenly backtracked.

If Android was instead 10 different companies with over 5 of the market the DMA as written would still apply to Apple. Because it’s based on number of users, not percentages or number of companies in the market. So open up VW!

First it’s not based on on number of users but after article 2( the core platform services) and 3. Samsung met the criteria and was removed as a gatekeeper because of the evidence they submitted.

Article 2
For the purposes of this Regulation, the following definitions apply:

(1)	‘gatekeeper’ means an undertaking providing core platform services, designated pursuant to Article 3;

(2)

‘core platform service’ means any of the following: (a) online intermediation services; (b) online search engines; (c) online social networking services; (d) video-sharing platform services; (e) number-independent interpersonal communications services; (f) operating systems; (g) web browsers; (h) virtual assistants; (i) cloud computing services; (j) online advertising services, including any advertising networks, advertising exchanges and any other advertising intermediation services, provided by an undertaking that provides any of the core platform services listed in points (a) to (i);

Article 3
1. An undertaking shall be designated as a gatekeeper if:

(a)	it has a significant impact on the internal market;

(b)	it provides a core platform service which is an important gateway for business users to reach end users; and

(c)	it enjoys an entrenched and durable position, in its operations, or it is foreseeable that it will enjoy such a position in the near future.

Then go a head and request article 40 or
Article 17

Market investigation for designating gatekeepers​

1. The Commission may conduct a market investigation for the purpose of examining whether an undertaking providing core platform services should be designated as a gatekeeper pursuant to Article 3(8), or in order to identify the core platform services to be listed in the designation decision pursuant to Article 3(9).​

Spotify isn’t a gatekeeper because the EU corruptly didn’t list them as one, despite naming YouTube as a gatekeeper.

Does Spotify let me easily export my playlists to Spotify so I can easily import them to Apple Music? Are musicians and record companies not business users that rely on Spotify to reach customers? Do they let me use Apple’s algorithm instead of their own?

Yes you can export your playlist and You know that algorithms aren’t covered for anyone.

Anyways, this is off topic, so I’m not going to engage further. I’m glad you agree draconian government interference in the market is bad when it happens in industries the EU competes in though, if you could just taken the next step and understand it’s bad when it happens in tech too, we’d be in business!

You’re more likely to convince me that the car makers should be obligated to include support for Apple car play ultra( unless I can implement it myself) because I really don’t like any of the infotainment systems. Nor even the normal CarPlay/ Android auto.

But I do love the Android car Os in polestar

 

[rhett7660]

It’s the exact same thing with Apple not wanting to open up/give up the AppStore.

Never said it wasn't... two things can be wrong at the same time. But, again, this tells me everything I need to know, just like the big ole blowback behind BMW wanting to charge for heated seats. Crap like this and the GM not wanting to support carplay.

 

[Zdigital2015]

You know what would solve this issue? An Apple car. And I guarantee Apple will come back around to it in time. (“In time” might mean post-Tim Cook.) This is the same problem they would have had if they never made their own phone. As fully self-driving gradually takes hold, there will eventually be people with a lot of downtime in their cars, and Apple isn’t going to cede that experience - and that time - to Tesla, Google, and others.

If Xiaomi can do it, so can Apple. And they will. So if we’re all around, come back to this post in 2030, and let’s see if I’m not right. 😀

As long as you don’t mind a car shaped like a very snug egg and only available in one of four dour shades that keeps asking you to subscribe to Apple Fitness every time you enter System Settings to keep resetting WiFi.