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So what do you think about Macs/Apple OS?

  • They are superb and could not be better

    Votes: 305 22.9%
  • They're good but have a few niggles

    Votes: 879 65.9%
  • For everything I like there's something I don't like

    Votes: 106 8.0%
  • I prefer Microsoft PCs

    Votes: 43 3.2%

  • Total voters
    1,333
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I have no real complaints. the only thing that has ever bugged me is that I have to :apple:+Q out of everything to close it. I can't just click the little red button and be done. Sometimes my hands are not near the keyboard and I have to lift an arm over to hit the keyboard key combination (not a workout, but annoying none the less... less steps = better) or my other option to go through the menu, select, click, close. PITA to have to do IMO.

The fact that photobooth closes on just a click of the red button proves it can be done, and I'd love to know how to make it a default. Perhaps in automator?
 
I have no real complaints. the only thing that has ever bugged me is that I have to :apple:+Q out of everything to close it. I can't just click the little red button and be done. Sometimes my hands are not near the keyboard and I have to lift an arm over to hit the keyboard key combination (not a workout, but annoying none the less... less steps = better) or my other option to go through the menu, select, click, close. PITA to have to do IMO.

The fact that photobooth closes on just a click of the red button proves it can be done, and I'd love to know how to make it a default. Perhaps in automator?

Since OS X is a document based mutli-tasking OS certain apps are designed not to quit by hitting the close button. It takes getting used to but in time it will make sense and you will prefer it.

For example in iTunes there is no real reason to keep the window visible unless you want to show off the visuals, in Mac OS X you click the close button and it hides the iTunes window, in Windows you have to minimize it to the task bar taking up space.

If apps serve a purpose without their window being visible the close button hides rather than quits. So in Photobooth it has no purpose or functionality without the window showing so it quits when you hit the close button. The entire system is built that way.
 
It takes getting used to but in time it will make sense and you will prefer it.

It's been 6 years...... I'm waiting.......

Since OS X is a document based mutli-tasking OS certain apps are designed not to quit by hitting the close button.

I've had this issue with macs all the way back to classic, so not just an OS X thing.

For example in iTunes there is no real reason to keep the window visible unless you want to show off the visuals, in Mac OS X you click the close button and it hides the iTunes window, in Windows you have to minimize it to the task bar taking up space.

Spaces handles this problem well. Leo could have had a quit option that worked better on this.
 
i hate not being able to cut and paste :mad: WHY CANT WE HAVE CUT & PASTE?!?!
dragging and dropping is not the same thing

I don't know about you, but I copy and paste all the time using apple(cmd) c
and apple (cmd) v. You can also right click to do it.

Am I just confusing this with something else?:confused:

Chalk this one up to user error.

Seriously?:confused: I really don't see how Apple's lack of foresight to make laptops easier to use with all video equipment (without having to buy ridiculous adapters) is a user error.
 
I've had this issue with macs all the way back to classic, so not just an OS X thing.



Spaces handles this problem well. Leo could have had a quit option that worked better on this.

I kind of thought you were just a new switcher. The Mac OS has always been a multi-windowed application based OS so the quitting of apps has been this way since day one.

How does Spaces handle quitting of apps? I don't get you on this?

I don't know what you mean that Leopard should handle quitting apps better. Personally i would be pissed if Apple started stupidly quitting apps like Windows does, it's very retarded. As I mentioned before, it's horrible to have minimize iTunes in Windows just to get rid of the window. It wastes Taskbar space, is that suppose to be better?? I don't think so.
The same thing with Mail, I can close the window and still get my mail updates and alerts without haxies or plug-ins. The dock would fill up pretty fast if we had to minimize everything like Windows.
 
Unless one needs the power of a desktop, I don't see the appeal behind one. And, if you do need that power, you'd head for a Mac Pro, not a consumer-level desktop.
Screensize is the main reason to have a desktop rather than the extra power for many people. But now that the 4-Core Power Mac is not so much more expensive than the iMac it would make little sense to make another mid-range computer. Essentially it would be a slightly smaller Mac Pro but since you wouldn't be compelled to buy the screen from Apple etc, then it probably wouldn't have a great profit margin for them. If you want that kind of computer just buy the lower level Mac Pro. It'll last for years so is arguably cheaper than the iMac in the long run anyway.
 
Well they only make one type of mouse. Secondly, that's sort of an ignorant statement. No, I take that back, it's not sort of ignorant, it's just ignorant.

Firstly, the iMac is the cheapest AIO on the market bar none. Cheaper than Dell's, HP's, Sony's or Gateways.
iMac has better GPU and larger screen and faster than all of them even though Dell has a desktop class processor.

The Mac Pro is not more expensive then the Dell when similarly equipped.

There's no PC equivalent of the Mac mini however for a desktop machine its still the only one that ships with wireless and bluetooth and dual boots the Mac OS and Windows.

That leaves us the Macbooks. I will agree that the MacBooks seriously need an update to justify Apple's pricing but the MBP offers more over most Windows notebooks in it's class.

Check your facts before making ignorant statements about price.

I love Apple products, but never felt comfortable with them personally(esp. the one button issue before, but now we have mighty. they seem like very nice but going to stay with my microsoft $20 mouse, which is serving me very well:) And by the way, this thread is about 'things you HATE about Macs'. ;) I think expensive when I think most about Apple's RAM memories and Apple Displays.
 
I have no real complaints. the only thing that has ever bugged me is that I have to :apple:+Q out of everything to close it. I can't just click the little red button and be done. Sometimes my hands are not near the keyboard and I have to lift an arm over to hit the keyboard key combination (not a workout, but annoying none the less... less steps = better) or my other option to go through the menu, select, click, close. PITA to have to do IMO.

The fact that photobooth closes on just a click of the red button proves it can be done, and I'd love to know how to make it a default. Perhaps in automator?


It's a bad idea to equate 'closing' with 'quitting'. They are two different actions, and serve two different purposes. If I'm using Photoshop and I close the last window I certainly don't want Photoshop quitting on me when I'm just about to open another document. So the Mac correctly defines the two actions as different. When I want to quit Photoshop I command-Q, and when I want to close a window I command-W.

Compare this to Windows where my thought process might go like this:
I want to close this Window; but I don't want to Quit so I need to check if it's the last Window; if so then I have to open the other thing I want to open then close this window.
vs.
Command-W
I know which I prefer. :)

Now there is one exception to this and that's if the app in question can only ever have one Window - e.g. System Preferences. Then if you close that Window the Mac helpfully Quits the application for you. Of course, if you're in the habit of Quitting anyway this issue is moot.

So we have
want to quit: Command-Q or File>Quit
want to close: Command-W or X
easy, functional and fast.

Less steps is not necessarily better. File > Quit obeys Fitts law so the action is possibly quicker than the clicking of the X because in the latter case you have to determine where the X is.
 
I kind of thought you were just a new switcher. The Mac OS has always been a multi-windowed application based OS so the quitting of apps has been this way since day one.

How does Spaces handle quitting of apps? I don't get you on this?

I don't know what you mean that Leopard should handle quitting apps better. Personally i would be pissed if Apple started stupidly quitting apps like Windows does, it's very retarded. As I mentioned before, it's horrible to have minimize iTunes in Windows just to get rid of the window. It wastes Taskbar space, is that suppose to be better?? I don't think so.
The same thing with Mail, I can close the window and still get my mail updates and alerts without haxies or plug-ins. The dock would fill up pretty fast if we had to minimize everything like Windows.

Spaces does not handle quitting of apps, you said "You have to minimize it to a task bar as the other option", which until leo would have been the other option. Now it's not. You can leave it open, hit spaces, and switch workspaces. This leaves you not having to quit anything. This way when you want to quit, you simply can. Hit the button and it quits.... least in a perfect world.

Itunes, mail, everything else you mentioned..... "spaces". Leave it running all you wish, but simply give me the option to quit when I want to with a simple click.
 
simply give me the option to quit when I want to with a simple click.

Command-Q. If you want them to add another button to the top of the windows that quits the whole app, it wouldn't work. Everyone would start complaining about how "It's too easy to quite instead of close," etc.etc.
 
I don't know about you, but I copy and paste all the time using apple(cmd) c
and apple (cmd) v. You can also right click to do it.

Am I just confusing this with something else?:confused:



Seriously?:confused: I really don't see how Apple's lack of foresight to make laptops easier to use with all video equipment (without having to buy ridiculous adapters) is a user error.

Sorry... quoted you by mistake. :)

Yeah... there is no way Apple's lack of hardware options is our fault outside of choosing to use Apple's hardware. I agree. I could go on and on about what I would love to see in a real pro video editing laptop, but I will tire myself out.
 
Spaces does not handle quitting of apps, you said "You have to minimize it to a task bar as the other option", which until leo would have been the other option. Now it's not. You can leave it open, hit spaces, and switch workspaces. This leaves you not having to quit anything. This way when you want to quit, you simply can. Hit the button and it quits.... least in a perfect world.

Itunes, mail, everything else you mentioned..... "spaces". Leave it running all you wish, but simply give me the option to quit when I want to with a simple click.

Can someone clear this up for me? What are all the different ways to get rid of a window in Os x? I'm getting slightly lost..

There's hitting the red button, which closes but doesn't quit (on most apps) (black triangle in dock stays there)
There's the minimize, which puts it into the dock on the right side
There's actually closing the application (in which triangle dissapears and app is fully quit)
There's the hide command, which... here's where I get lost. What's the difference between red button close, minimize, and hide?
 
read the complaint.

I did, and my answer is still command-Q no matter how inconvenient you think it. Photobooth quits when you click the X because you are guaranteed not to have any other windows open in Photobooth. If you're closing that Window, you are done. In iTunes, closing a Window just means you dont want it in the way. And yet the music still plays. It is much better than having it quit at every X click.

Can someone clear this up for me? What are all the different ways to get rid of a window in Os x? I'm getting slightly lost..

There's hitting the red button, which closes but doesn't quit (on most apps) (black triangle in dock stays there)
There's the minimize, which puts it into the dock on the right side
There's actually closing the application (in which triangle dissapears and app is fully quit)
There's the hide command, which... here's where I get lost. What's the difference between red button close, minimize, and hide?

Hitting the X - Most applications only closes that one Window. The app remains there.
Minimize- Puts the window in your dock. Only useful if you have more than one Window open and want it out of the way but still continue working on another window in that app.
Hide- Makes every single Window of the app disappear. they will appear just like they were before the hide when you click the app icon.
 
The most irritating thing for me (a relatively new switcher) is the long-term apple fans that defend stupid features (best but not only example: one button mice) that Apple keeps 'just because it's the way Apple has always done it'

Keyboard+Click is much stupider than just having multiple buttons on the mice. Maybe if we only had one finger on our hands...

(/EDIT: I just remembered, before I get flamed that the current mac mouse is indeed two button, I was thinking about Macbooks and Macbook pros. The common 'response' to that (posted below me in fact!) is to use the two finger click method. That is fantastic except I can't press the left and right buttons at the same time to get a middle click. And there is no three-finger middle click. It is stupid to keep one mouse button. Why can't mac laptops just have two mouse buttons? It doesn't make them more exclusive or cool. It's just dumb. What sin is this commiting?!?!)

If you were familiar with how Mac works (and always worked), you would not say bad things about 1 button mouse. I would actually like to buy one now, but I can't find it anywhere. Most apps in Macs dont have the contextual menu. In Windows, on the other hand, most of the actions are done with this menu. Same operations on Macs are mostly done by KB shortcuts, which is a faster way of doing things anyway.

I never owned a PC, in all 10 years I'm using computers, all I had were Macs. And in these 10 years I have never used the contextual menu, except for occasionally using the "save file to desktop" command in Safari, and "Compress <files>" in OS X .4 and .5 Finder. My left hand is on the keyboard most of the time because I use a lot of hotkeys, so having right mouse button is needless.

As for 1 button on trackpads, its actually better than 2. You dont have to aim to press the certain button. If you want right click, just place another finger on the trackpad and press the button, again, anywhere on the button, no need to aim.

BTW, you are the first person who needs a 3rd mouse button I've met O_O
 
Hitting the X - Most applications only closes that one Window. The app remains there.
Minimize- Puts the window in your dock. Only useful if you have more than one Window open and want it out of the way but still continue working on another window in that app.
Hide- Makes every single Window of the app disappear. they will appear just like they were before the hide when you click the app icon.

Is there a way to see via dock which apps have been hidden?

I work on both windows and mac. My windows habits prevail because I've been a win user for longer in my life. The one and biggest problem I have switching mentality is going from the taskbar centric in Windows to the Messy Desk paradigm on a mac.

I actually respect both approaches - in windows the taskbar tells you what is running at a glance - how many windows, of what exactly.
In OSX, you know which applications are running, but hunting down windows is done visually via expose.

Both work well enough for me, but switching back and forth is a nightmare.
 
If you were familiar with how Mac works (and always worked), you would not say bad things about 1 button mouse. I would actually like to buy one now, but I can't find it anywhere. Most apps in Macs dont have the contextual menu. In Windows, on the other hand, most of the actions are done with this menu. Same operations on Macs are mostly done by KB shortcuts, which is a faster way of doing things anyway.

I never owned a PC, in all 10 years I'm using computers, all I had were Macs. And in these 10 years I have never used the contextual menu, except for occasionally using the "save file to desktop" command in Safari, and "Compress <files>" in OS X .4 and .5 Finder. My left hand is on the keyboard most of the time because I use a lot of hotkeys, so having right mouse button is needless.

As for 1 button on trackpads, its actually better than 2. You dont have to aim to press the certain button. If you want right click, just place another finger on the trackpad and press the button, again, anywhere on the button, no need to aim.

BTW, you are the first person who needs a 3rd mouse button I've met O_O

Not to be a pain but I think it's a little unfair since you've admitted you pretty much never use a windows PC.

Firstly, in all my times using OS X, I have not seen an application that doesn't have contextual menus with right clicks.
Secondly, using any software on Windows there are just as many kb shortcuts for common tasks.

Thirdly, I've never ever had a problem of aiming for a mouse button. But maybe that's just me.
 
The most irritating thing for me (a relatively new switcher) is the long-term apple fans that defend stupid features (best but not only example: one button mice) that Apple keeps 'just because it's the way Apple has always done it'

I won't defend actual mice with 1 button, but on notebooks 1 button mice have my preference, and I'll explain why below:
Maybe if we only had one finger on our hands...
Problem is, we do have more than one finger. Palms are also there, just to mess you up. On a traditional PC with 2 buttons and a scroll bar, the chances of your other fingers or palm accidentally hitting something they were not meant to hit goes up. On my old HP, I can't count the number of times I accidentally brushed the scroll bar, only to have the thing go wild and take me to the bottom (or top) of the page. I love how on my mpb, I have to really want to scroll in order to do it. An accidental brush against one side of the trackpad is not going to cause a random scroll.

On the same note, accidentally pressing the right-click button is not going to accidentally bring up the contextual menu. If I want to right-click, I have to put two buttons down on my trackpad.

I've spent time with both types of trackpads, and I much prefer the way Apple does it. To me, there's no sense in having more ways to accidentally enter input.
That is fantastic except I can't press the left and right buttons at the same time to get a middle click. And there is no three-finger middle click.
Who uses the "middle" click anyway? What does it even do in OS X? What does it do in Windows? Is this a niche desire that would perhaps best be served with a USB/BT mouse?
It is stupid to keep one mouse button.
I'll let you address my points above before letting you get away with such a blind assertion. ;)
Why can't mac laptops just have two mouse buttons?
Because there are perfectly logical reasons why they shouldn't. I've given you one, so it's your turn to provide a logical basis/reason why we shouldn't have them.
It doesn't make them more exclusive or cool.
Actually, it does chance the design. Apple is known for clean and simple designs. Hence the reason why even the Mighty Mouse looks like it has only 1 button but actually has a few. Looks count for a lot when it comes to Apple products, and having a 2 button trackpad is certainly not going to help.

i prefer this way than having two buttons
I do too. I think a lot of people find it's much better once they get past that initial feeling of "what? what's going on?:confused:"
I believe many of the new switchers (since the Intel transition) would disagree.
So should Zagat change its formulae because more people like to eat at Burger King? Should BMW change its price range because most consumers need an inexpensive car? I could go on, but I think the point is clear. There's no sense in changing something simply because more people want it a certain way, especially if said people aren't willing to give it a try.

Now if you had a stronger reason for change, then there would be something to discuss (ie, Zagat should change its formulae because cooking technology has evolved, BMW should change its pricing structure because it is losing business to Lexus).
Thank you.
You're more than welcome. :)
There all small annoyances and changes that one must overcome while switching, and while someone smart enough to navigate and most on this forum can probably do that fairly easily, the average internet browsing emailing type doesn't need to deal with them. It's honestly easier just to stay with Windows at that point.
When I first switched, I found it easier to just let myself "discover" things. I pretended I knew nothing about computers (or rather, almost nothing) and just let it be learnt the old fashioned way. It's sort of why children who know nothing about a given subject can be taught easier than those who know a little about that same subject. Your old beliefs interfere with what you should be focusing on at the moment.
I have no real complaints. the only thing that has ever bugged me is that I have to :apple:+Q out of everything to close it.
Technically, :apple:+Q quits the application, not just closes the window.
I can't just click the little red button and be done.
Out of curiosity, why would you want that? When I'm done with a word document, but know that I'll have to come back to it later on in the day, I close the window and leave Word "running" so there's less lag time later. It saves time for me and makes life much easier. Having the app quit each time seems like it would be a bother.

The fact that photobooth closes on just a click of the red button proves it can be done, and I'd love to know how to make it a default.
Some apps will quit if there's no point in having the app running without a window (like Coconut Battery). Otherwise, most apps will continue to "run" because you can do things without having a window active (like how you can clear your history in Safari without having a Safari window open).

going to stay with my microsoft $20 mouse, which is serving me very well:)
Good for you. Microsoft makes great mice (very comfortable and have never given me trouble). I recommend them out of all the mice on the market.
I think expensive when I think most about Apple's RAM memories and Apple Displays.
I agree. The RAM Apple provides is way overpriced, and so are the ACDs. Frankly, Dell makes some really nice displays, and if I was in the market for one, I would just go for that. No sense in paying 2X the amount.
Can someone clear this up for me? What are all the different ways to get rid of a window in Os x? I'm getting slightly lost..

Depends what you mean by "get rid of."
X will close the window.
- will minimize the window to the Dock.
"hide" will hide all the app's windows,
and quitting the app will close all the apps windows.

here's where I get lost. What's the difference between red button close, minimize, and hide?
The red button means that the window is closed for good. It "disappears" in a sense.
Minimize will show the window in the Dock on the right-hand side near the trash.
Hide will not show you the window, but you can recall them.
In OSX, you know which applications are running, but hunting down windows is done visually via expose.

It used to be a real pain, but Spaces has really made this easier. I usually have 4 spaces, and it's really made a big difference.
 
Who uses the "middle" click anyway? What does it even do in OS X? What does it do in Windows? Is this a niche desire that would perhaps best be served with a USB/BT mouse?

I do use the "middle click" on my external mouse, and it is a pain to not have that feature on a trackpad.

But then again, I've never seen any laptop with that feature.
 
I do use the "middle click" on my external mouse, and it is a pain to not have that feature on a trackpad.
But then again, I've never seen any laptop with that feature.[/COLOR]

So you use it on a trackpad, but you've never seen a notebook with that feature?:confused:

And what does it do in OS X exactly?
 
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