ThinkSecret predicts new Powerbooks & Specs

[junebug630]

PB updates in line with expectations

This is in line with what I expected. I admit to being a little bit let down after all the hype, but I plan to buy a 17" PB in March sometime and this won't change that. ( a price drop should take care of the Applecare cost) I figure Rev D should be darn well trouble free as far as the end of cycle is concerned. It will be my first laptop, so I will be excited non the less. What did kind of dampen it is the fact they will not be updating the Superdrive to 8x. That kind of sucks. Am I right in thinking that the current Superdrive only burns CDs at 16x ?
What are the requirements to get a student discount? Do you need to be full time, or can taking a local class qualify you for the discount?

 

[solvs]

It may be "worthless" IYO, but it's good enough that it's pushing 1394 (a and b) off the shelves.

You're kidding right? Some of us have USB and FW. They can co-exist you know. How many camcorders do you know use USB? USB may not be worthless for things like mice and keyboards, and even printers and scanners, but I'd rather have a FW external hd or cd/dvd burner than USB 2. It's actually faster you know, despite USB claiming to be 80Mb/s faster.

True, 1394b isn't ubiquitous yet, but it has a lot more leg room. In a few years it's supposed to be around 3.2Gb/s. Somehow, I don't see USB pushing that off the shelf.

BTW: for those touting Intel's 533MHz FSB, you do know it's actually a quad-pumped 133MHz right?

 

[zimtheinvader]

why does it have to be "sexy"? I have my ipod/book/mac for that!

The question I have is why not if nothing else release a (physically)-bigger G5 (and less ultimately anemic!) portable? Even call it something other than __book to distinguish it as a desktop replacement. I honestly had nothing against the weight of my old 3" thick Armada notebook! The point I mean to raise as an OSX convert and increasingly mobile user is that I don't need any more sex appeal from my mac, (even my 'nicked snow ibook induced compliments,) but rather the G5's stability and power (gpu upgrades would be nice too!) in some semblance of a notebook form. Perhaps include a larger battery to compensate for the increased G5's/9800?!'s drain, maybe sata support, put it in a rugged, albiet larger, less glamorous, case (ala retro PB,) and market it as the new standard in semi-portable power..? Isn't that what the powerbook line was originally intended for, not the chic urbanite but as a highly-powerful mobile FCP/Logic/ect. platform? As a portable sort of reflection of the Powermac? Personally I wouldn't mind at all a semi-portable desktop replacement from Apple, even given a sizable mass/volume increase ala Sager, ect. Actually, a lot of new rather large 'windows media center' notebooks seem to be on the verge of release anyway, maybe indicative that beyond a certain point, size is less of an issue?...Plus the ibook already fills the Apple line as great system for buisness apps anyway with portability to boot, just comperably not that much muscle, hence the increasingly gaping hole prompting all these "I've been waiting for the next PB revision" instances. Wouldn't anyone else appreciate a (truly... imacs really don't seem designed to be moved around daily!) mobile G5 platform, even given one 2-3" thick? I, too, have been waiting for a PB, but I need to be able to run multiple instances of Vstis and edit on it and for $2000-3000 need the performance to be at least vaguely comperable to the PM line itself....the 10% of OSX apps that use the 64bit functionality are the ones professionals buy a powermac (or formerly a PB) for anyway (no? FCP, Logic, Cubase...) Even 2-3" and heavier, thats still highly comperable to the general hs/college textbook, and notebooks of this nature have flourished, even continued in the PC world to be popular (XPS, Sager, HP,) given such sizes in the past.

Alternatively if the G5 chips aren't there, couldn't the G4 PB's bus speed be significantly raised and the cache be upped like the dorthan (?new Pentium-M's) ? Also, 512MB of PC3200 or more could be made standard and 5400 80GB drives and minimum R9700 (even 64mb) standard across the line, which would increase the actual value a lot more than the token gesture of a 'superdrive'. Personally, I've not known very many people that actually could use a superdrive anyway, even when they had it standard in thier desktop, (even given having used FCP+Dvdsp extensively on a PMG5, I can't imagine a situation that dire in which such an unusual pro/consumer couldn't swing the difference to get the upgrade as it exists now, or wouldn't opt for a 15-17" anyway,) so such an upgrade across the line would be a negative point for me, given the reduction in the value of the computer's components as a whole that such a gesture represents...isn't it only like $100-140 for a faster (16x) external DVD+-RW anyway?

Oh well, if this is true, then back to the 'ole ibook+G5 dual plan... Wait though, the ibooks (gpu) can't run Tiger, right?...hmm back to the zaurus+G5 plan...oh wait, the zaurus can't run most linux apps....hmm back to the palm+g5 plan....oh wait, the ibook has a better battery...back to the 'ole QD+ G5 plan ...

Still though just to clarify I love Osx and would never go back to Windows, -now offering even more security holes!!! Long live Mac, god save the G5 PB!

 

[autrefois]

A brand-new Powerbook G5 (codename "The Oven")? A new Powerbook G4 with minor updates (codename "The Disappointment")?

Nah. You are all missing the mark. Steve is going to announce a headless iBook! (codename "The Huh?!")

 

[sjpetry]

as small as lcds are that still takes up room! i have faith that there will be a g5 powerbook tomrow! Yes it is Random

I have hope too, it won't happen though.

 

[kirk26]

The real places that the PowerBook needs updating is in cost, and features. The FX5200 in the 12" is abysmal, as the earlier post showed. Apple should put a 6200 into the design. 800MB/s Firewire in all models. Up the 12" Powerbook to a 13" widescreen at 1280x720 or thereabouts. And all the other things that are important. Not having a G5 isn't a problem at the moment, especially if a G5 laptop now would have to run at 1.4GHz because of heat. Why diss a 1.67GHz laptop? It's better than a 1.5GHz laptop, and can compete more against the high end Pentium M / Centrino offerings.

This would make Apple users happy. Why would Jobs do that?

 

[nerd]

In a twisted sort of way, I'll be glad if the powerbook updates are minor. I bought mine back in April and I know that as soon as the g5s come out I'll feel compelled to upgrade my otherwise perfectly awesome laptop.

Good job Apple!

 

[HasanDaddy]

I'm tempted to go ahead and buy, if this is the update ------ I've got to do so much film editing this upcoming Spring

the 1 ghz is great, but 1.67 seems like a big upgrade

do you guys think that this is gonna include price drops, of any kind?

 

[ClimbingTheLog]

You mean how FireWire 800 (and, indeed, 400) is without reservation better than USB2.0? You mean how USB2.0 is a worthless product?

Tell that to Apple. USB 2 hard drives are more reliable under Panther than Firewire drives. Those same drives were/are fine under Jaguar. Apple is asleep at the Firewire Wheel.

 

[ClimbingTheLog]

So, you'd rather have an underclocked G5 than a high-clocked G4? Isn't the G5 about the same power as a G4 at about the same clock speeds?

Imagine this - I'm a developer. I develop scientific applications. I need to build a new cluster with a thousand render nodes for some HPC work.

I can build out XServes or AMD64 clusters. The cost is about the same.

I like OSX and Apple but I need to be able to work from home, on the road, etc. I need a mobile 64-bit platform. Apple doesn't offer me one. AMD has the Mobile AMD Athlon 64. Gee, do I want to lug a G5 tower around in my backpack? No.

So, who gets the cluster contract and why?

 

[Maxx Power]

Wow, Mac users really are jaded and bitter these days aren't they, judging from the comments in this thread.

First of all, look at the main competitor to PowerBooks - Pentium M based laptops. They cost a little more, they're thinner than P4 based behemoths, and the processor is around the same speed as the G4 used in the PowerBooks and iBooks.

Sure, the new 533MHz bus Dothan Pentium M has a lot more system bandwidth, but that is the only real failing of the PowerBook's processor. That extra bandwidth does come at the cost of higher power consumption however - IIRC the 533MHz bus Pentium M's are 27W parts. The 1.67GHz G4 is lower than that, I don't know the exact figure however.

The Pentium M is derived from the PIII, which is ultimately derived from the Pentium Pro. So what if the G4 is 6 or 7 years old? The Pentium M by the same logic is 8 or 9 years old! It is still a good design, and it runs cool, so it might as well be used. Sure, next year you'll want 64-bit capability in your laptop, but by then the G5 will be in a laptop.

The real places that the PowerBook needs updating is in cost, and features. The FX5200 in the 12" is abysmal, as the earlier post showed. Apple should put a 6200 into the design. 800MB/s Firewire in all models. Up the 12" Powerbook to a 13" widescreen at 1280x720 or thereabouts. And all the other things that are important. Not having a G5 isn't a problem at the moment, especially if a G5 laptop now would have to run at 1.4GHz because of heat. Why diss a 1.67GHz laptop? It's better than a 1.5GHz laptop, and can compete more against the high end Pentium M / Centrino offerings.

Pentium M's run up to 2.10 Ghz as of last month sometime. G4's in powerbooks have a hard time catching up to them. For same clock comparisons, the G4 has no candles to hold, unless you do unfair vectorized vs. non-vectorized code comparisons. The PM has a a higher per clock efficiency than even the Athlon 64, with its built in memory controller, as was demonstrated in every present review of the PM. The amount of modifications, changes that happened to the P pro core to the PM core is much, much more than the G4's evolution from the original G4 to the G4e. Each stage of the PM's evolution involve modernizing the CPU core from adding of the different sets of vector instructions, to the built in cache, to the complete piplining of the FPU, to the completely new bus and branch predictor, and the leading edge power saving technologies like quadrant cache access, allows the PM to be a real monster when it comes to efficiency (and speed if you clock it at a measly 2.4 ghz). While the new 533 Mhz bus versions tops out at 27 watts, the older ones were at 21 watts, with a Ultra Low Voltage version dissipating 5 watts clocked at 1.2 Ghz. Those are real improvements in the right directions to be recongnized. If the PowerBook is going to get better, the CPU makers better listen to people's demands, and we the users better raise them. For almost a year of wait and an abysmal upgrade is all they can muster, is making laughingstocks of Mac users once again. I think for being dedicated platform users and the only sources of their revenue, we deserve something better than this, this abomination of an excuse of an upgrade with ever higher negative ratings here.

 

[~Shard~]

This will probably be the last minor PowerBook update we see until something bigger comes out, i.e. dual-core G4 PowerBooks in a few months.

 

[ckkoay]

The 12" iBook is looking more and more like the laptop to buy.

I hope that they change the LCD for the 12" PowerBook. Currently, it looks no brighter than an iBook's.

Personally, I don't feel too bad with the updates because I just got a 15" 2 weeks ago to replace my older TiBook. Looking at the speedbump, I'm glad that I didn't wait.

 

[Hattig]

For almost a year of wait and an abysmal upgrade is all they can muster, is making laughingstocks of Mac users once again. I think for being dedicated platform users and the only sources of their revenue, we deserve something better than this, this abomination of an excuse of an upgrade with ever higher negative ratings here.

Clearly Apple will never be able to satisfy you then. How are they going to magick a 2GHz G4? Or get a hot G5 into a PowerBook case?

AMD have the Turion 64 as well in a few months, that's 26W at 2.2GHz, and a full 64-bit processor.

The PC world has caught up in the laptop arena. Apple aren't too far behind at the moment, but if they're stuck at 1.67GHz at the end of this year, then they're in trouble.

Anyway, the Pentium M's FP performance isn't that great. In the many applications that are Altivec enhanced I can see a G4 beating it, and that includes an awful lot of media applications. Couple that with a properly 3D accellerated desktop as well ... and not running Windows XP. It isn't that bad. 12% faster, 25% larger, and faster HD, etc.

 

[Windowlicker]

People, stop bitching!

I'm sure apple will offer you a G5 PB as long as you're ready to pay $1 000 000 for it. If the technology doesn't excist/is still too expensive, there's no way for Apple to change that.

Plus, if the PBs get the rumored (/confirmed?) updates and at the same time get price cuts, I'm sure they will be sold to consumers, while you guys are still waiting for your PBG5's.

What would be nice is if they put a 512mb chip (not 1x or 2x256mb) to the default configuration, also on the 12".

 

[Scorched X]

According to the Apple Rep at the CompUSA store, Tiger will speed up the powerbooks considerably. If Steve can demonstrate a 40% increase in speed without upgrading the chips, we wil seel many new powerbooks fly off the shelves. I don't see the G5 in the powerbooks for another 18 months. Apple made it clear sometime ago that it will be a long while before they can get those hot chips into such small places.

I wouldn't put too much faith in a CompUSA employee...

 

[SiliconAddict]

Wow, Mac users really are jaded and bitter these days aren't they, judging from the comments in this thread.

First of all, look at the main competitor to PowerBooks - Pentium M based laptops. They cost a little more, they're thinner than P4 based behemoths, and the processor is around the same speed as the G4 used in the PowerBooks and iBooks.

Thanks. You’ve restored my faith that there are at least a few Mac users out there still drinking Steve’s patented RDF iKool-Aid.
I could literally do a blow by blow of why you are sidestepping the facts and basicly distorting them just like Mac users were doing pre-G5 with the PowerMac line but you know what facts you are pulling out of your butt. You don't need me to examine your feces.

First off we aren’t talking the first generation Pentium M here.. The Dothan has twice the L2 cache at 2MB. Secondly the chip is using a 90nm process. The G4 is still stuck at the 13 micron chip size. Third. Fall of 03 http://www.barefeats.com/ did a comparison between the current crop of G4’s and the latest and greatest of the Pentium M. Guess who thrashed who? Now you can extrapolate the current speed by simply looking at how the latest and greatest PowerBooks bench against those models as you can imagine since the system bus is being strangled the craptastic speed bumps does NOTHING for overall performance. So while Intel has been tweaking branch logic, adding cache, shrink the chip, upping the FSB, and overall making the chip even more power conservative Moto has been umm basically twiddling their thumbs. I find it highly interesting that barefeats has not done a single comparison since that time. Not one. They haven’t spoken or even uttered a sentence with the words Pentium M. Why do you think that is? Maybe because there is nothing there to crow about. Apple is in the EXACT same position they were in prior to their move to the G5 on the PowerMac but this time deja vu strikes the PowerBook. The similarities are so striking even the excuses that flowed from those defending the G4 are even the same with the last and greatest reason being “the hardware doesn’t matter its all about the OS.” Every thread defending the PowerBook invariable ends up with that defense. I don’t think this one has gotten there yet but it will. Give it time.

Oh and some reading material for you to go over to get your facts streight:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2129
http://www.barefeats.com/al15b.html

 

[Kenrik]

to get a student discount you need to go to a school apple knows about (you can't make one up) you can check on the apple site off on the side it should say "educational discounts" click that pick your school and that's it if you go into a apple store just show your student ID and bam you have big $$$ savings (as a note you can only buy one computer with the discount per year per person and it "resets" in july lol so buy one in june and in july haha.

 

[AppleFoussa]

2 inch thick iMac G5

As much as the source may be reliable I very much can't accept it. I mean come on now, Apple managed to put a G5 in a 2 inch thick iMac. that's an accomplishment. But I guess this is only good for people who have been waiting for more speed for their dollar.
LEt us hope this is wrong

 

[hulugu]

Thanks. You’ve restored my faith that there are at least a few Mac users out there still drinking Steve’s patented RDF iKool-Aid.....

Is it possible for us to go through the first month 2005 without one jackass mentioning "Steve's RDF" or some variation for "drinking the kool-aid?"
And as for the whole 'anal' thing, stop that it's gross.

Now, for your points about the Pentium M, you're right and the rest should listen up, the Pentium M is a very, very good chip. Easily the best thing Intel has managed to cough up—we won't mention Itanium—and it is faster, with more FSB, and uses less power than the G4. It is simply a better chip, just as the G5 will become a better chip than the G4. Apple needs to work with Moto/Freescale and/or IBM to get a better system together.
However, the current crop of G4 chips is what we have got, they are good chips, better than the Celeron and some of AMDs offerings, and they are what Apple has got, no amount of sniveling and griping is going to change that simple fact. If Steve could get a 4Ghz G5 with a 2Ghz FSB into a Powerbook .9" thick and weighing 1 pound with a 12 hour battery life and sell it at a 30% profit for $999 he would, but damnit he can't. He can't even get IBM to produce 3Ghz G5s now.

The hardware is very important, but Silicon I have to say I get more done on old Macs than on brand-new PCs so don't ever discount the software. Frankly, I think we would be able to do much more with our current machines without the swelling bloat inherent in current code and that needs to be amended as well. The Longhorn specs were simply out of control, even at this stage of development.

So, no more RDF talk, it's stupid.
And the G4, good chip too bad Moto makes it. Frankly, I wish Intel had chosen RISC in the first place and not the craptastic, but surprisingly flexible x86 architecture.
Intel has managed to prove the old adage if brute force doesn't work, push harder.

 

[nagromme]

What do you people think of the chance of a free upgrade coupon to tiger for all these new macs?

Zero chance--except for people who buy JUST before Tiger (30 days?)--and I'd guess that Tiger is still a couple months away at least.

I'd also guess that if a new headless IS announced, it won't actually ship until it has Tiger pre-loaded. If it ships sooner, that makes me think Tiger will be even later.

Both Tiger and a new cheap Mac (if any) make good reasons to have a new Mac marketing campaign. Better together than separately.

 

[James L]

I cannot believe the whining in these threads.

Apple specifically said that there would be no G5 PB in 2004... that ended a whole 10 days ago. The trouble experienced with the G5 chip production, with supply, with cooling, etc is also documented. The xserve and the iMac have extremely little bearing on the PB engineering.

This is the update that anyone who has followed Apple development knew was coming.

If you don't like it, don't buy it.

 

[TheSith]

Question though..

If they release this, when are they due to ship? My question has been overlooked but asking yet again.

If it takes them two weeks to get them into the stores and pumping them out, that turns out to be february - mid-february. They're going to release 3 1/2 months after that that is G5? That seems a bit weird to me...

 

[h00ligan]

Clock speed is NOT a good indicator of how quickly a given computer can perform a task. There are a LOT of other variables (not counting the fact that Intel's increase in clock speed came at great price to true performance). I bought a powermac dual 1.8 g5 about a year ago and couldn't be happier. I think a lot of people lose their heads over insignificant things. I use my computers for a living and to be honest, nothing I do on a mac is any slower than what I did on a windows machine. This is the case for most people. The other important factor about laptops is that increased clock speed also tends to lead to decreased battery time. I don't know about you but I use my laptop on the move. I don't use it to replace a desktop. I want something that's nicely portable and a good battery life to get me through any work I may have during transportation. As for market share, Apple's market share is it's own. Apple is a niche player (even though they are working to get out of that) and does quite well at it.

i agree most people get over hyped for no reason.. but the macs are slower on web browsing (important to most people) particularly using firefox (superiror browser to safari) - apple needs to offer mouse gestures.. image scaling, etc.. then safari may be worth sticking with. the biggest problem withe the lineup is perception.. the "PRO" laptops are laughably behind the pro desktops.. it's just not the same in the wintel world. You can get mobile workstations - and they are about THE SAME PRICE

another sig. problem as i see it is screen res. It's just too low adn the 12" screen needs to be completely reworked. I am in the process of selling my 12" because i just couldn't appreciate it anymore after looking at an xbrite screen (and it was slower).

 

[mattster16]

Question though..

If they release this, when are they due to ship? My question has been overlooked but asking yet again.

If it takes them two weeks to get them into the stores and pumping them out, that turns out to be february - mid-february. They're going to release 3 1/2 months after that that is G5? That seems a bit weird to me...

We have no idea when they are going to release the G5. They may release a dual G4 or a dual-core G4 later this year before a G5. You can rest assured Apple will release a G5 PB AS SOON as all the technical issues are worked out, they know people are begging for them. Also if they do an update they start shipping normally right away, this was the case with the PB update in April when I ordered mine. They even upgrade you to the new model if you order the old one just before the update.

The PowerBook seems to be almost more of a consumer machine then a pro level bleeding edge machine at the moment. That is just the way it is though. People will still buy them, they look cool and are speedy in just about everything. Apple is trying, you can whine all you want though I guess. I'm completely happy with my PB (I secretly don't want them to upgrade them so mine can always be the newest).

I know I'll get yelled at for this, but I don't care how slow this thing is compared to pc portables (within reason I mean). I switched over from Windows in April and I may never go back. I can't even tell you how many people's windows computer I have to outfit with 3 different programs just to combat all the spyware and viruses. I have many friends who get kicked off the university network because a virus turns up on their computer. It's seems like such a hassle. Granted I learned all about computer using PCs and still appreciate them I just love being able to not think about popups, spyware, viruses, etc. EVER.

All that said I am looking forward to what Apple announces tomorrow at MWSF.