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Zaty said:
I couldn't agree more. From Apple's point of view it makes perfect sense. Why spend a lot of money on redesigning the AlBooks' logic boards to fit in new graphic chips etc. when they're already working on a completely new design due this autumn? Granted, that's a selfish corporate way of thinking but hey, corporations only want to make as much money as the possibly can, Apple's no exception. :)

I agree, if they're already onto designing a new case/board/etc. and are about (6 months) to bring it out, it'd make perfect sense from a business point of view. I just don't like it. ;) :D
 
ts1973 said:
Well, I agree it is not spectacular, but let's look at the Intel (or AMD) side of things : what did they produce laptop wise the last year ?? If we leave the desktop replacement market out of it, Intel switched their Centrino lines into a new name, and only increased the (level 3) cache from 1 to 2 Megs.

Actually, it was the L2-cache that got increased. Pentium-M does not have L3.

And, we need to get the terminology straight here. Pentium-M is the name of Intel's Mobile CPU. The 2MB L2-version is codenamed Dothan, the previous model (with 1MB of L2) was codenamed Banias. "Centrino" refers to the entire platform that consists of Pentium-M, chipset and Intel WLAN. There are plenty of laptops out there with Pentium-M, yet they are not Centrino-laptops, since they use different WLAN-implementation.

AMD did (almost) nothing because they still lack a decent low-power A64 and sticks with Athlon-M.

Athlon-M is on it's way out. AMD does have Mobile Athlon64, and it seems to be doing relatively well.
 
Evangelion said:
My first post to these forums, so: Hello folks :).
hello and welcome to macrumors, a fair source of information with some good members, edesignuk the macro whore and a humping avatar!
I have been reading your comments regarding the PB-upgrades with great interest. And I can see few trends emerging.
agree with you, but the trends are the ones you want to ignore :)
Now, as a disclaimer: I don't own any Apple-hardware, but I am interested in their offerings. I might buy some of their products in the future.
you need to get on that asap as windows is a pile :)
i now know this more than ever as i just sold my powerbook (newest 15inch)
and have resorted to using windows xp... hmmm the darn thing has got 18 viruses already and stuff keeps popping up on the screen, 128 spywares detected. the keyboard is giving me severe cramp in my right arm.... it takes about 14 minutes to start up and get to a useable state.. other than that its great :rolleyes:

you dont know how much you need os x untill you use it for a month and then use a pc again (no windows lovers giving me a hard time please. and yes i do use anti virus stuff and spy bot stuff... pah)

Now, that said, here are my thoughts about this situation:
What are the rumoured improvements PB is going to get? They are:

Speed-bumbs to 1.67/1.5GHz
Bigger hard-drive in the hi-end (100GB instead of 80GB)
Faster hard-drives (5400RPM instead of 4200RPM)
Faster vid-card in the hi-end (128MB of RAM instead of 64MB)
Better optical drives (supports DVD+R)
Bluetooth 2.0

I don't know about you, but I think those are fine upgrades! I espesially like the faster HD's, modern computers are held back by I/O-performance, not raw CPU-speed.

fine upgrades. you sure about that :D

the video card and faster hardrive only give marginal almost unnoticeable increases, a worthless exercise?
20gb extra is ok for a speed bump

i however dont believe for a second that steve p. jobs will get up at a huge event and say WOW GUYS look what we got for ya!!! the powerbooks are going from 1.5 -1.67 hmmm. cant see it. if the rumor is true then it will be a sneaky website is down (tick tock tick tock) website is back again, look small speed bump
Now, there are some common complaints people have voiced here:

"They need to put G5 in there!"

Not gonna happen (not yet at least). In case you haven't noticed, G5 runs _hot_. If they wanted to put G5 in there, they would have to underclock it below iMac-speeds. And at those speeds it wouldn't offer any advantage over G4. Clock for clock, G4 and G5 are more or less equal. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if G4 was faster clock for clock!

on the g5 your correct, i will eat my own head if they put a g5 in there soon
clock for clock the g5 is marginaly better
"But G5 has faster bus! The bus on G4 sucks!"

See my comment about CPU-speeds. Even with it's uber-bus, G5 is about as fast as G4 is, clock for clock. Some CPU's require fast bus to get good performance (P4 is an extreme example of this), whereas other CPU's do just fine with even slower bus (Athlon XP for example). Faster buses are (of course) a Good Thing (tm), but they are not such features that in order to get it, you must sacrifice everything else. Yes, you COULD get a G5 with it's uber-bus in PB. But the CPU would be underclocked so much, that in the end it would be slower than G4 would be! What good would that uber-bus do then?
in reality your just guessing/opinion based on what they can/cant get in there, apple continually come up with improved ways of cooling (air flow techniques ect )

as for the FSB. having a large fsb is an advantage whichever way you look at it
"But G4 is _old_!"
So what? G4 is a fine CPU. Just because it's old does not mean that it's bad.
correct its still a good solid chip, but still its old and can be improved apon (dual core/ g5 technology, g5 is a FP powerhouse)
"But these improvements are hardly improvements at all!"
this is something i agree with strongly.
Faster CPU
only just, you start noticing a differnce at about 10-11% increase
faster hard-drive
marginal difference (7200prm would be a good thing)
bigger hard-drive
yeah but t should be 7200rpm
faster vid-card

if i could be bothered to find it would likk you to barefeats wheree they show you just how little improvement this upgrade gives! makes a small difference for gamers but thats it
better bluetooth,
how will this change or improve anything you do (or anyone on this board) in the next year? it makes no difference when your just using b/t keyboard and mouse? i mean yeah fine, bt 2 ok great... just wait for those things to come out
hardly a vital thing for the powerbook to have
better optical drive
wont change my life one bit, or many users lives but i cant see apple doing this to be honest
Those ARE significant improvements in my opinion!
you are, of course intitled to your opinion, but they dont change the facts of the matter. they in no way are significant, a 9800 mobile would be significant, a gb ram in the top end powerbooks is significant, new screen, 7200rpm hd's, dual core g4s. all significant... messing about a little is an improvement but such a tiny one that uprading from the 1.25 is not really worth it
Some people here need a reality-check! G5 in a PB? Maybe someday, but not today. Dual-core G4 in PB? Maybe someday, but not today. G5 runs too hot, and dual-core G4 is not ready yet.

i take back all my disagreements because you are obviously someone high up in apple to know what they can and cant do and what is and is not ready :rolleyes:
Seriously, some people just can't be pleased!
correct :)
they would have to put dual g5s in there with a 6800 mobile (or go6800 whatever) to make people happy
P.S. If they do release G5-PB at the keynote, I'll end up looking mighty foolish :).

you wont :)
 
Evangelion said:
Actually, it was the L2-cache that got increased. Pentium-M does not have L3.

Sorry : you're right. But this doesn't change my point.

Evangelion said:
And, we need to get the terminology straight here. Pentium-M is the name of Intel's Mobile CPU. The 2MB L2-version is codenamed Dothan, the previous model (with 1MB of L2) was codenamed Banias. "Centrino" refers to the entire platform that consists of Pentium-M, chipset and Intel WLAN. There are plenty of laptops out there with Pentium-M, yet they are not Centrino-laptops, since they use different WLAN-implementation.

You're right again of course, but I just meant that Intel stopped using the Centrino brand-name and is referring to it (at least here in Belgium) as Pentium M-7xx. This name-change happened when they switched from Banias to Dothan.

Evangelion said:
Athlon-M is on it's way out. AMD does have Mobile Athlon64, and it seems to be doing relatively well.

I think these are more oriented towards the Desktop Replacement Market, I could be wrong however. Anyway, in Belgium the A64 notebook offers are very limited (only one I can think of is Acer atm).
 
video cards in powerbooks

Quote "In summary, the fx 5200 does very badly in at least the PC world and I imagine equally as bad in the mac world. I understand that this is a benchmark, not a real-life situation test, but still you would expect more from a pro-line computer. I mean, the fx 5200 loses to a geforce 3! The geforce 3 came out a good couple years BEFORE the fx 5200. The fx 5200 is by no means new either."

I'v had my 12 inch rev c Powerbook for 10 months. I give lots of presentations and drive large monitors at work. The pb has never failed to do what I needed it to. What is wrong with the video card? Can't play Halo with all the eye candy turned on? Aside from games what can't the 5200 card do?
 
AL-FAMOUS said:
I now know this more than ever as i just sold my powerbook (newest 15inch)
and have resorted to using windows xp...

Glad to see u finalized the deal... out of curiosity are you planning to replace your PB with what comes out today... ?
 
Dalriada said:
Glad to see u finalized the deal... out of curiosity are you planning to replace your PB with what comes out today... ?

im not to sure, im just gunna wait to see what happens,

me and the purchaser ar both very happy... im happy with the money i got for it but unhappy about the cramp :)

if this headles imac is good then i might think about getting one of those to tide me over untill i get the latest dual g5 that is out at the time. :)
 
99% sure this update is gonna suck, with the only possible slight saving grace being a price drop, but that's fine with me. I just got a great deal on a 15" PB at the weekend, and this just means it'll remain near top of the line for longer :D
 
edesignuk said:
99% sure this update is gonna suck, with the only possible slight saving grace being a price drop, but that's fine with me. I just got a great deal on a 15" PB at the weekend, and this just means it'll remain near top of the line for longer :D

cant even see them bumping it like that in todays event though can you?

you at work today?
 
AL-FAMOUS said:
you need to get on that asap as windows is a pile :)

I ditched Windows long time ago :). Well, I still have in on my computer for occasional game or two.

i now know this more than ever as i just sold my powerbook (newest 15inch) and have resorted to using windows xp... hmmm the darn thing has got 18 viruses already and stuff keeps popping up on the screen, 128 spywares detected. the keyboard is giving me severe cramp in my right arm.... it takes about 14 minutes to start up and get to a useable state.. other than that its great :rolleyes:

Yep, you are absolutely right. Those are the things I mention to my family-members who are still stuck at Windows.

you dont know how much you need os x untill you use it for a month and then use a pc again (no windows lovers giving me a hard time please. and yes i do use anti virus stuff and spy bot stuff... pah)

Well, I have used OS X a bit (at stores, and a friend of mine has a 12" Powerbook). And while it's a fine OS (order of magnitude better than Windows is!), it still can't replace my favourite. But I can definitely see why so many people swear by it :). As to the hardware it runs on... It's certainly as good as it gets, espesially the laptops!

the video card and faster hardrive only give marginal almost unnoticeable increases, a worthless exercise?

Depending on what you do with the machine. They wont help everywhere, that's true.

i however dont believe for a second that steve p. jobs will get up at a huge event and say WOW GUYS look what we got for ya!!!

you are right, he wont turn it in to a humungous event. He will mention it and show the differences between the old and the new, but that's it.

in reality your just guessing/opinion based on what they can/cant get in there, apple continually come up with improved ways of cooling (air flow techniques ect )

I said that they can't put dual-core G4 in there because dual-core G4 is not available yet.

Related to this: If they can get thermals of dual-core G4 right, I would rather see it in the PB than a G5. DC-G4 would have the precious faster FSB, and it would let Apple differentiate iBook and PB by other means besides Mhz. PB gets the dual-core, iBook gets the single-core.

As of today... It seems that the way to get faster FSB in there is to move the system to G5. And, like I said, that would not give any benefits in the end.

as for the FSB. having a large fsb is an advantage whichever way you look at it

Sure it is, assuming that the CPU and the rest of the system around it is otherwise identical. But boosting the FSB might mean compromises elsewhere. Apple could put G5 in PB right now. But it would run at about 1GHz (my guesstimate). And it would therefore be slower than the current G4-PB is. Faster FSB would not help one bit there. Is 1Ghz G5 with 500Mhz bus faster than 1.66Ghz G4 with 166Mhz bus is?

correct its still a good solid chip, but still its old and can be improved apon (dual core/ g5 technology, g5 is a FP powerhouse)

Well, it has better Altivec-implementation than G5 does (Altivec on G5 was more like an afterthought), and it has better thermal-characteristics. Dual-core is on it's way here.

marginal difference (7200prm would be a good thing)

yeah but t should be 7200rpm

7200rpm eats too much power.

if i could be bothered to find it would likk you to barefeats wheree they show you just how little improvement this upgrade gives! makes a small difference for gamers but thats it

And G5 would make the system slower, not faster.

hardly a vital thing for the powerbook to have

Not vital, true. But still, it's a "nice to have"-feature.

you are, of course intitled to your opinion, but they dont change the facts of the matter. they in no way are significant, a 9800 mobile would be significant

That might require re-designing the circuit-board and the surrounding system. Bumbing the CPU-speed does not require that. I would guess that they will re-design the board when they make more substantial changes to the system. They can't make those changes now, since there's very little they can do (no "next-generation" CPU's that are suitable are available yet).

dual core g4s.

Which are not available yet. In the summer, maybe, but not yet.

all significant... messing about a little is an improvement but such a tiny one that uprading from the 1.25 is not really worth it

Why would you need to upgrade, 1.25GHz is still plenty fast. I don't upgrade my 2.2Ghz A64 to 2.4Ghz A64 either.

i take back all my disagreements because you are obviously someone high up in apple to know what they can and cant do and what is and is not ready :rolleyes:

I'm not "high up in Apple", I just use common sense. G5 in PB does not work right now. They managed to get in the iMac, but that doesn't mean they can get it in the PB (which is half as thick) as well. They can't use dual-core G4 because it's not available yet. This is not about what Apple can or can't do, this is about what Freescale is capable of doing. And they are not capable of delivering dual-core G4 yet, so that's it. IBM IS capable of delivering G5, but it's thermal-characteristics make it REALLY difficult to cram it in to PB. They were able to cram it in the iMac, but it's twice as thick as PB is (and that's without a keyboard) and it has several fans to cool it off.

Really, I'm not disparaging Apple here. There's very little they can do with chips that do not exist yet. And G5 runs so hot that cramming it in PB in such way that it actually outperforms a G4-PB is very, very difficult.
 
your getting me all wrong, im not saying sling a g5 in there

im just disagreeing with your "its a significant difference" thing, it is hardly a difference at all

i also disagree with you putting across that you know what apple can and cant do when you are just guessing really

it is a worthless update, a price drop would be much better

i also never said because they can fit a g5 in an imac they can get it in a PowerBooks (im not stoooopid) i know how these things work and i bet any money Steve says nothing about a powerbooks if there is a tiny speed bump (steve like saying things like "dual 3ghz in a year, Steve doesn’t like saying 1.5 -1.6)

as for saying a g5 will be slower

all this talk of boosting the fsbs and holding back elsewhere..... what?
alk of boosting the fsbs and holding back elsewhere..... what?
 
I am about to buy a PowerBook 12". Incidentally, this will also be the first Apple product I purchase ever.

Perhaps it is just me, but I am pleased to know I will own a solid machine with a CPU and an overall system all proven excellent. I would not be as sure to get a PB, had the very first generation of G5 notebooks been announced.

On the other hand, considering this upgrade is far from spectacular, I expect prices to drop a bit, and I will be p*ssed if they do not.

Question: is this next PowerBook G4 upgrade, Rev D or Rev E? Thanks.
 
AL-FAMOUS said:
im just disagreeing with your "its a significant difference" thing, it is hardly a difference at all

Yes it is a difference. Not an earth-shattering difference, but difference still. There are still plenty of people buying PowerBooks, so obviously they think tht the current systems are competetive (if they aren't, why are they buying them?). These improvements make them a bit better still.

i also disagre with you putting across that you know what apple can and cant do when you are just guessing really

My comments regarding dual-core G4's are not guesses, they are straight from Freescale. According to Freescale, DC-G4 is not available right now. That is a fact. Therefore it can't be used in PB right now. Apple has some great engineers, but there's nothing they can do on this issue, since DC-G4 is not available. How can they put a non-existant CPU inside the PB?

As to G5.... You are right, I have no hard facts there, buit I do have common sense. Fact is that G5 runs hot. Very hot. Yes, they did manage to put in in iMac. But iMac is not Powerbook. Powerbook needs to be lighter, thinner and cooler than the iMac is. And it must get acceptable usage-time when running on batteries. And the G5 on the iMac has only slightly higher clock-speed than the G4 on the PB has. Is that G5 any faster than current G4 is? Honestly, I just don't see G5 there yet.

i also never said because they can fit a g5 in an imac they can get it in a powerbook (im not stoooopid) i know how these things work and i bet any money steve says nothin about a powerbooks if there is a tiny speed bump (steve like saying things like "dual 3ghz in a year, steve doesnt like saying 1.5 -1.6)

So what do you want them to do? Current G4 wont do miracles, Apple must be happy to get this speed-bumb from them on that form-factor. Dual-core G4's are not here yet, and (as you said) G5 is not feasible. So what options do they have left?

as for saying a g5 will be slower :rolleyes:

I mean that if they replaced the G4 in the PB by a G5 right now, it would be slower. And that's because in order to run cool enough, they would have to seriously underclock the G5. It currently runs at 1.6 - 1.8GHz on the iMac. That's marginally better than G4 in the PB is (before the update), both in raw MHz and in actual performance. Would that same G5 work in PB? Would it be one bit faster? I think they would be more or less even in CPU-performance. But that G5 couldn't really work in a chassis 1" thick (even less so, if you exclude the screen and keyboard), so they would have to underclock it. And that would mean that it would be slower than the current G4 is.

all this talk of boosting the fsbs and holding back elsewhere..... what?
alk of boosting the fsbs and holding back elsewhere..... what?

I was talking about replacing the G4 with a G5. You would then get your precious FSB-increase. But the CPU would have to be underclocked, since the G5 simply runs too hot. And that would mean that the actual CPU-performance would be less than it is with the G4.
 
Evangelion said:
Yes it is a difference. Not an earth-shattering difference, but difference still. There are still plenty of people buying PowerBooks, so obviously they think tht the current systems are competetive (if they aren't, why are they buying them?). These improvements make them a bit better still.



My comments regarding dual-core G4's are not guesses, they are straight from Freescale. According to Freescale, DC-G4 is not available right now. That is a fact. Therefore it can't be used in PB right now. Apple has some great engineers, but there's nothing they can do on this issue, since DC-G4 is not available. How can they put a non-existant CPU inside the PB?

As to G5.... You are right, I have no hard facts there, buit I do have common sense. Fact is that G5 runs hot. Very hot. Yes, they did manage to put in in iMac. But iMac is not Powerbook. Powerbook needs to be lighter, thinner and cooler than the iMac is. And it must get acceptable usage-time when running on batteries. And the G5 on the iMac has only slightly higher clock-speed than the G4 on the PB has. Is that G5 any faster than current G4 is? Honestly, I just don't see G5 there yet.



So what do you want them to do? Current G4 wont do miracles, Apple must be happy to get this speed-bumb from them on that form-factor. Dual-core G4's are not here yet, and (as you said) G5 is not feasible. So what options do they have left?



I mean that if they replaced the G4 in the PB by a G5 right now, it would be slower. And that's because in order to run cool enough, they would have to seriously underclock the G5. It currently runs at 1.6 - 1.8GHz on the iMac. That's marginally better than G4 in the PB is (before the update), both in raw MHz and in actual performance. Would that same G5 work in PB? Would it be one bit faster? I think they would be more or less even in CPU-performance. But that G5 couldn't really work in a chassis 1" thick (even less so, if you exclude the screen and keyboard), so they would have to underclock it. And that would mean that it would be slower than the current G4 is.



I was talking about replacing the G4 with a G5. You would then get your precious FSB-increase. But the CPU would have to be underclocked, since the G5 simply runs too hot. And that would mean that the actual CPU-performance would be less than it is with the G4.



so your basing your whole argument on a 1ghz g5? that would never ever be put in a powerbook?

ok then

and whats all this about MY precious FSB, at the same clock speed a g5 is a better pro, simple as that,

its slightly faster clock for clock, its got a lerger bus and is more capable of a higher overal clock.. im not sure what your problem is with having a high frontside bus


plus im not saying i want them to do anything, you just proved yourself wrong by saying "its a significant difference" and then in your last post saying "These improvements make them a bit better still." and "Not an earth-shattering difference, but difference still"

this is HARDLY A DIFFERENCE as you wont notice much if anything :rolleyes:

its pointless dicking about with it like that
 
r_howie said:
I am about to buy a PowerBook 12". Incidentally, this will also be the first Apple product I purchase ever.

Perhaps it is just me, but I am pleased to know I will own a solid machine with a CPU and an overall system all proven excellent. I would not be as sure to get a PB, had the very first generation of G5 notebooks been announced.

On the other hand, considering this upgrade is far from spectacular, I expect prices to drop a bit, and I will be p*ssed if they do not.

Question: is this next PowerBook G4 upgrade, Rev D or Rev E? Thanks.

Benvenuto!, you won't regret your purchase. I own a 12" PB (Rev. B) myself and I can tell it's the best computer I've ever had. As for revisions. The new revision that most probably will be announced tonight will be Rev. D for the 12" and the 17" and Rev. C for the 15".
 
I cant help but feel a little bitter toward the large number of posts saying something along the lines :

"I bought my x" powerbook <number of> years ago.. Its still great, Im so glad i bought it then - Aren't I clever? (unlike like you guys waiting for a G5).
Oh also .. Its great that there is such a small update because I will have enough money for g5 pb in 6 months time..."

.. this *really* doesnt make people feel too good does it? Especially when most of the people complaining will probably end up buying a rev D powerbook :)
I, for one, cant wait any longer for an update as my job requires it.. and yes, I'm a little pissed off.

Ok, this was a troll.. sorry about that :)

Robin
 
Hattig said:
Clearly Apple will never be able to satisfy you then. How are they going to magick a 2GHz G4? Or get a hot G5 into a PowerBook case?

AMD have the Turion 64 as well in a few months, that's 26W at 2.2GHz, and a full 64-bit processor.

The PC world has caught up in the laptop arena. Apple aren't too far behind at the moment, but if they're stuck at 1.67GHz at the end of this year, then they're in trouble.

Anyway, the Pentium M's FP performance isn't that great. In the many applications that are Altivec enhanced I can see a G4 beating it, and that includes an awful lot of media applications. Couple that with a properly 3D accellerated desktop as well ... and not running Windows XP. It isn't that bad. 12% faster, 25% larger, and faster HD, etc.

Pentium M's FP performance just went up with the 533 FSB and Dual Channel ram. APparently, the FP unit was bandwidth starved. And at any rate, according to Arstechnica, the per clock performance is still greater than G4e's, not to mention the phenomenally higher success rates of its branch predictor that makes every FP instruction count, and instruction fusing, and loop detection. If you want vectorized code, run SSE2, it'll match ALtiVec for raw output if you optimize the compilers enough. You can't just compare ALtiVec to regular FP, both cores have vector units and regular FP units, it would be an unfair comparison. ANd besides, if the G4 still wins in a few selected applications, look at everywhere else it shows its teeth, even photoshop now that Adobe don't feel like being pushed around by Apple anymore.
 
AL-FAMOUS said:
so your basing your whole argument on a 1ghz g5? that would never ever be put in a powerbook?

I'm basing my argument on the underclocked G5 that they would have to use in the PB. It might run at 1Ghz (my guesstimate) or it might run at some other speed, who knows. But it wouldn't run at same speed as it does on the PowerMac or the iMac. Those systems have alot more room and cooling-capacity. Capacity that is not available in a laptop.

and whats all this about MY precious FSB, at the same clock speed a g5 is a better pro, simple as that,

AFAIK, at the same clock-speed, it's about as fast as G4 is. It clocks higher, and therefore it has better performance. But a 1.5GHz (for example) G5 would be more or less comparable to 1.5Ghz G4 (of course G5 would win in some benchmarks, while losing in others).

its slightly faster clock for clock

AFAIK, they are more or less comparable in speed.

its got a lerger bus

Since it has alot faster bus than G4 does, why doesn't it demolish the G4? The two CPU's are about as fast clock-for-clock. How can that be, since G4 has a piddly 166Mhz bus, whereas G5 has bus over three times as fast? Fact is that fast bus alone does not make CPU fast. Instead of staring at the G5's bus, look at the actual performance of the CPU and the system. And clock for clock, G4 and G5 are more or less equal. G5 reaches higher clock-rates, and that's where it gets it's advantages. But it wouldn't have that advantage in a laptop.

im not sure what your problem is with having a high frontside bus

Where have I said that I have a "problem" with it? Would it be great if Apple could keep the G4 in the PB as it is now, and bumb it's bus to (for example) 333Mhz? Sure! But in reality it doesn't quite work that way.

The "problem" I had is that people complain about the G4's bus, and offer G5 as a solution to that problem. But if Apple did that, they would have to underclock G5 so much, that the overall performance of the CPU would be lower than it is on the existing G4 (really, am I repeating myself here? Am I speaking latin or why is this so difficult to understand?). Super-fast bus does not help, it the CPU is slow. And underclocked G5 would be slower than the current G4's are.

Yes I know you all like to think that G5 is some kind of uber-CPU that God himself made in his divine fab. But it's not. Don't get me wrong, it's a fine CPU that will serve Apple well. But it's not the CPU that will annihilate every other CPU. G4 is still a fine CPU and it does a good job in laptops (where G5 right now can't be used).

plus im not saying i want them to do anything, you just proved yourself wrong by saying "its a significant difference" and then in your last post saying "These improvements make them a bit better still." and "Not an earth-shattering difference, but difference still"

How exaclty did I "prove myself wrong"? Those improvements save the buyer considerable amount of money when they don't have to upgrade the vid-card or the HD, and they get improvements that are not available for any amount of money. Is 167MHz speed-bumb earth-shattering? No it's not. But coupled with the other improvement, it's a significant improvement still.

this is HARDLY A DIFFERENCE as you wont notice much if anything :rolleyes:

Welcome to the reality. Most CPU-upgrades don't result in earth-shattering differences. Hell, I used to own a 800Mhz Duron-machine. And when I upgraded to 2.2GHz Athlon64, I hardly noticed any difference in everyday use. If you are expecting somekind of hunumgous improvements, you are bound to be disappointed. you will get those when they introduce all-new PB's (with G5 or next-generation G4).
 
:rolleyes:

im not arsed to reply to all that, you can argue a silly point if you want

firstly you obviously know alot about what a frontside bus does :rolleyes:
secondly when the hell did i say any off the stuff your slinging my way

my feckin point was you said it was significant and it is not, its a fact...

it is not a significant upgrade the rest your making up in your head, arguing about 1ghz g5s, foolish thing to do, ive never said put a g5 in it. ive said nothing about frontside bus being the be all and end all...

oh and for your info a g5 is as i keep saying is SLIGHTLYfaster clock for clock than a g5 (not the the same )

im not saying anything about i other than its not a significant update, i dont see why you feel the need to go off on one about 1ghz g5s for. its a waste of breath when your guessing about it, its not going in there anyway. im not saying your wrong about the g4 im not even saying its a bad chip
 
Passante said:
Quote "In summary, the fx 5200 does very badly in at least the PC world and I imagine equally as bad in the mac world. I understand that this is a benchmark, not a real-life situation test, but still you would expect more from a pro-line computer. I mean, the fx 5200 loses to a geforce 3! The geforce 3 came out a good couple years BEFORE the fx 5200. The fx 5200 is by no means new either."

I'v had my 12 inch rev c Powerbook for 10 months. I give lots of presentations and drive large monitors at work. The pb has never failed to do what I needed it to. What is wrong with the video card? Can't play Halo with all the eye candy turned on? Aside from games what can't the 5200 card do?
NO NO NO! you don't get it! YOU CANT PLAY HALO AT ALL WITH THAT CARD!!! 1FPS!!!
 
AL-FAMOUS said:
:rolleyes:

im not arsed to reply to all that, you can argue a silly point if you want

firstly you obviously know alot about what a frontside bus does :rolleyes:
secondly when the hell did i say any off the stuff your slinging my way

my feckin point was you said it was significant and it is not, its a fact...

it is not a significant upgrade the rest your making up in your head, arguing about 1ghz g5s, foolish thing to do, ive never said put a g5 in it. ive said nothing about frontside bus being the be all and end all...

oh and for your info a g5 is as i keep saying faster clock for clock than a g5 (not the the same )

you should go work for apple.... change all the g5s back to g4s :rolleyes:


im not saying anything about i other than its not a significant update, i dont see why you feel the need to go off on one about 1ghz g5s for. its a waste of breath when your guessing about it, its not going in there anyway. im not saying your wrong about the g4 im not even saying its a bad chip

Really, you are making absolutely no point, nor are you making any sense. An upgrade is an upgrade, would you rather apple just not upgrade the powerbooks at all?
 
jadam said:
Really, you are making absolutely no point, nor are you making any sense. An upgrade is an upgrade, would you rather apple just not upgrade the powerbooks at all?

you might want to re read the part where i sa

MY FECKIN POINT IS ITS NOT A SIGNIFICANT UPDATE

i however did not say, those buch of losers at apple are wasting my time doing this, i hate them for it.... oh and by the way they should put dual g5s in there cos they will fit and anyway its all about the FSB anyway, lets make up a story about what size pro would go in there then argue that point.... did i?

no

to be honest i dont care what they do with the powerbooks, ive just sold one and wont be buying another, i thought the 1.5 g5 with 166 fsb was a GREAT chip, as will the 1.67... this however is not a significant update

IS IT


i agree with most of the points he is making... i put a point about how good this update is and its like wham... take that al famous you newbie no nothing idiot,
 
AL-FAMOUS said:
firstly you obviously know alot about what a frontside bus does :rolleyes:

I do know a bit ;). Yes, fast FSB is a good thing. I would much rather have a fast FSB than a slow FSB. But FSB alone does not make CPU fast or slow. Like I said, why does G4 compete so well against G5, even though G5 has over three times as much FSB-bandwidth as G4 does?

my feckin point was you said it was significant and it is not, its a fact...

If it's not an significant update, why is there a several pages long thread about it?

it is not a significant upgrade the rest your making up in your head, arguing about 1ghz g5s, foolish thing to do, ive never said put a g5 in it.

The "1GHz G5" was merely an example I used to get the point across as to what Apple would have to do in order to put G5 in a PB. No need to take it literally.

ive said nothing about frontside bus being the be all and end all...

Lots and lots of people talk about the need of having faster FSB. Yet the G4 does relatively well even with it's slower FSB.

oh and for your info a g5 is as i keep saying is SLIGHTLYfaster clock for clock than a g5 (not the the same )

Huh? Are you talking about G4 being slightly faster than G5 or G5 being slightly faster than G4? regardless, the difference between the two is not that great. G5 would win some benchmarks while G4 would win others. While G5 has architectural improvements, it also has some drawbacks. It has longer pipeline than G4 does, and it has higher memory-latency. Velocity-engine is better on the G4 as (IIRC) is the integer-units.

im not saying anything about i other than its not a significant update, i dont see why you feel the need to go off on one about 1ghz g5s for.

Well, if you don't know what I was trying to tell with it, I really don't know what else I could do. the point was that if G5 was put in to laptop today, they would have to underclock it so much that it would be slower than G4 would be. THAT is the point I was making, and I simply used 1GHz G5 as an example.
 
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