ThinkSecret predicts new Powerbooks & Specs

[CaptainCaveMann]

OMG, I fu**ing hate apple sometimes. 9 months later for this. The G5 has been out for 2 years now. And the G4 has been out for something like 7. Don't you the hell tell me they could not put a G5 in the damn thing underclocked to at least get us away from the 133 mhz fsb.

All apple cares about now is thier damn iPod. Great, apple is turning into sony.

Hahahaha "Damn ipod" lol agreed 😀

 

[CaptainCaveMann]

Does speed bump also mean heat bump? 🙄

 

[TheSith]

Also if they do an update they start shipping normally right away, this was the case with the PB update in April when I ordered mine. They even upgrade you to the new model if you order the old one just before the update.

Thank you for the quick, lengthy reply, mattster16.

In regards to "shipping right away," if I were to want to buy one in person, how long does it take for the stores to get them? I'm in California (won't say more than that) and want to go to a pretty popular one that is nearby and buy mine in person. Bit of a complicated story but I'd rather do that than online.

Do they already have them at the Apple store and are just waiting for the official release, or how does this work? If so, I'm going there TOMORROW! 😀

 

[Evangelion]

My first post to these forums, so: Hello folks 🙂.

I have been reading your comments regarding the PB-upgrades with great interest. And I can see few trends emerging. Now, as a disclaimer: I don't own any Apple-hardware, but I am interested in their offerings. I might buy some of their products in the future.

Now, that said, here are my thoughts about this situation:

What are the rumoured improvements PB is going to get? They are:

Speed-bumbs to 1.67/1.5GHz
Bigger hard-drive in the hi-end (100GB instead of 80GB)
Faster hard-drives (5400RPM instead of 4200RPM)
Faster vid-card in the hi-end (128MB of RAM instead of 64MB)
Better optical drives (supports DVD+R)
Bluetooth 2.0

I don't know about you, but I think those are fine upgrades! I espesially like the faster HD's, modern computers are held back by I/O-performance, not raw CPU-speed.

Now, there are some common complaints people have voiced here:

"They need to put G5 in there!"

Not gonna happen (not yet at least). In case you haven't noticed, G5 runs _hot_. If they wanted to put G5 in there, they would have to underclock it below iMac-speeds. And at those speeds it wouldn't offer any advantage over G4. Clock for clock, G4 and G5 are more or less equal. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if G4 was faster clock for clock!

"But G5 has faster bus! The bus on G4 sucks!"

See my comment about CPU-speeds. Even with it's uber-bus, G5 is about as fast as G4 is, clock for clock. Some CPU's require fast bus to get good performance (P4 is an extreme example of this), whereas other CPU's do just fine with even slower bus (Athlon XP for example). Faster buses are (of course) a Good Thing (tm), but they are not such features that in order to get it, you must sacrifice everything else. Yes, you COULD get a G5 with it's uber-bus in PB. But the CPU would be underclocked so much, that in the end it would be slower than G4 would be! What good would that uber-bus do then?

"But G4 is _old_!"

So what? G4 is a fine CPU. Just because it's old does not mean that it's bad.

"But these improvements are hardly improvements at all!"

Faster CPU, faster hard-drive, bigger hard-drive, faster vid-card, better bluetooth, better optical drive. Those ARE significant improvements in my opinion!

Some people here need a reality-check! G5 in a PB? Maybe someday, but not today. Dual-core G4 in PB? Maybe someday, but not today. G5 runs too hot, and dual-core G4 is not ready yet.

Seriously, some people just can't be pleased!

P.S. If they do release G5-PB at the keynote, I'll end up looking mighty foolish 🙂.

 

[Zaty]

I don't understand why people are disappointed. This update reflects what we could expect. I agree it's not a great update overall. However, my 12" PB, which is a year old, is still a great machine and I wouldn't consider upgrading. But if you compare the specs between a Rev. B and Rev. D you will notice that the Rev. D has a 50% faster CPU, faster bus, twice as much VRAM, AE built-in, 33% bigger HD which also faster. All those improvements along with a price drop (at least outside the US) is not too bad. Speaking of prices. Here in Switzerland the Rev. B (Combo drive) cost CHF 2599, the AE card was an extra CHF 159. So that's CHF 2758. If the new models cost the same as the current ones, which is likely since Apple dropped prices only a week ago, the 12" PB has not only become much faster but is also significantly cheaper (CHF 2249) that's CHF 509 (USD 431) less than a year ago. The same applies to the rest of Europe. So, at least on this of the Atlantic, there is no reason to complain. If you want a PB get it now, tomorrow that is. 🙂

 

[jackieonasses]

I don't understand why people are disappointed. This update reflects what we could expect. I agree it's not a great update overall. However, my 12" PB, which is a year old, is still a great machine and I wouldn't consider upgrading. But if you compare the specs between a Rev. B and Rev. D you notice that the Rev. D has a 50% faster CPU, faster bus, twice as much VRAM, AE built-in, 33% bigger HD which also faster. All those improvements along with a price drop (at least outside the US) is not too bad. Speaking of prices. Here in Switzerland the Rev. B (Combo drive) cost CHF 2599, the AE card was an extra CHF 159. So that's CHF 2758. If the new models cost the same as the current ones, which is likely since Apple dropped prices only a week ago, the 12" PB has not only become much faster but is also significantly cheaper (CHF 2249) that's CHF 509 (USD 431) less than a year ago. The same applies to the rest of Europe. So, at least on this of the Atlantic, there is no reason to complain. If you want a PB get it now, tomorrow that is. 🙂

THanks for those numbers. Honestly, i think these are good, if not great. There will be a big bump soon.

kyle

 

[aussie_geek]

I am in the market for a new laptop. I would only consider buying this anemic upgrade if there was a SIGNIFICANT price drop- at least $200. Theres really no way to spin it, this upgrade is craptastic. Yes, I know- it's not all apples fault, third party suppliers, excessive heat, blah, blah, blah. 🙄 🙁

Yeah, these specs are not exactly what was expected. Seeing that you are in the market for a new laptop, you can always shop for a real bargain after the upgrade. Lets say Apple does bring out these new models with a price drop as well. All you will need to do is go and shop around for a current model (today) when the new ones are announced(tomorrow). You can guarantee that there will be some cheap clearance PowerBooks on sale somewhere...

aussie_geek

 

[giveup]

And what if a 1.67G4 is faster than any clocked down G5 chip they could stick in a Powerbook? Do you really want the "G5" stamp on your computer at the cost of real speed? If I remember, the 1.5ghz G4 is about the same speed as a 1.5ghz G5 in things that don't take advantage of the 64bit chip, which is 99.9% of applications today.
I doubt they could stick a 1.67mhz G5 in a powerbook...

The iPod is in a completely separate department. They have NO relationship to the people working on the Powerbook and PowerMac.

Suck it up.

~Tyler

I dont think so. Even g4 is faster(unlikely) than g5 as same speed. We need something new. Apple have pay so much attention on ipod and ITMS, which is I dont f**king mind, please do some serious f**k on Macs.

 

[aussie_geek]

Does speed bump also mean heat bump? 🙄

Most definately.. I wouldn't want to have a PowerBook running any hotter than these ones. Mine gets up to 63 degrees 😱. Who knows what the new 1.67's will reach. You will have to wear some thermal trousers to use it 😛


aussie_geek

 

[aussie_geek]

I dont think so. Even g4 is faster(unlikely) than g5 as same speed. We need something new. Apple have pay so much attention on ipod and ITMS, which is I dont f**king mind, please do some serious work on Macs.

Let's hope the headless "insert letter of alphabet other than e or i" Mac will save the day... 🙄

aussie_geek

 

[Diatribe]

My first post to these forums, so: Hello folks 🙂.

Hi and welcome. 🙂

1. Speed-bumbs to 1.67/1.5GHz
2. Bigger hard-drive in the hi-end (100GB instead of 80GB)
3. Faster hard-drives (5400RPM instead of 4200RPM)
4. Faster vid-card in the hi-end (128MB of RAM instead of 64MB)
5. Better optical drives (supports DVD+R)
6. Bluetooth 2.0

Not to burst your bubble but:

1. Yeah, nice but because of the crippled FSB only half useful.
2. That's actually great although expected.
3. Was available for the Rev. Cs already
4. Was available for the Rev. Cs already
5. Who cares. One format is more than plentiful. Now dual layer would be sth. where is that?
6. Again, who cares? Not going to be of any use until a year or so.

Now where is/are?:

1. The better display?
2. The not crippled 12" or better 13" with PC-Card slot, FW800, backlit KB?
3. The new graphics cards like the x800 mobility for example?
4. Dual-layer drive?
5. Higher capacity batteries?
6. 802.11n Airport Extreme Cards? (Apple adopted g early too)
7. The standard 512MB better yet: 768MB?

Now that would be a worthy update even without a cpu update a lot of people, myself included, would be intrigued by a PB like that...

Apple better step up or they're gonna lose big time. And this is only being realistic. I don't care that much for a G5, just update! the damn PBs correctly.

 

[Zaty]

Yeah, these specs are not exactly what was expected. aussie_geek

Reality check, what did you expect? Even Apple has to do without magic. There's not much they could offer even if they wanted. Okay, perhaps a better graphics chip for the 12" but perhaps this is easier sad than done. Everyone being in the market for a PB, get it tomorrow, won't regret it. AlBooks are great.

 

[ts1973]

If the rumors are true, I too think these are fine upgrades, exactly - if not better - as could be expected. I agree also with many people here that we could better have a G4 with good specs (video, hard-drive, superdrive) at a good price than an underpowered (because of the heat-issue), expensive G5 where you have to BTO everything to make it even more expensive. I personally believe by the way that the future of Apple laptops does not lie in the G5 processor, but in the dual-core technology or in a low-power successor of the G5 processor.

One final thought (and I have said this before) : why doesn't Apple include a level 3 cache again, as they did with the Ti-books. I know this would make the processor for Apple a whole lot more expensive, but you could increase the overall speed by up to 10%.

 

[Dalriada]

Heck if indeed the PB went G5 later today then this thread would be twice as long with rants about poor battery life and burnt knees 🙄 On the other hand, if we do see only speed bumps, I wonder where that leaves the road map. Do we go straight G5 if and when ready or will there likely be Dual G4's over the summer ?

 

[Zaty]

Hi and welcome. 🙂
3. Was available for the Rev. Cs already
4. Was available for the Rev. Cs already

Correct, but only if you were willing to spend more $$$. This time, those features are standard, so it's kind of a hidden price drop, which is really nice.

 

[Diatribe]

Reality check, what did you expect? Even Apple has to do without magic. There's not much they could offer even if they wanted. Okay, perhaps a better graphics chip for the 12" but perhaps this is easier sad than done. Everyone being in the market for a PB, get it tomorrow, won't regret it. AlBooks are great.

Read my take of it above. I think Apple could've done a lot better.

 

[gekko513]

It seems like a lot of people haven't been paying attention in class. These updates are totally in line with what we could expect given what we know about IBM's and Freescale's roadmaps.

 

[Zaty]

Read my take of it above. I think Apple could've done a lot better.

I already did and I agree with you on certain suggestions but I guess we have to wait until we know all the specs. Remember Rev. Cs got better batteries than Rev. B. There's still a chance they're doing it again.

 

[Diatribe]

Correct, but only if you were willing to spend more $$$. This time, those features are standard, so it's kind of a hidden price drop, which is really nice.

About 120€ incl. VAT. Nice but awesome.

I already did and I agree with you on certain suggestions but I guess we have to wait until we know all the specs. Remember Rev. Cs got better batteries than Rev. B. There's still a chance they're doing it again.

Yeah you beat me 😀 . We'll see today I guess but if none of the points I mentioned are upgraded then it is a real crappy upgrade.
Moving up a bit in MHz and dropping the price a bit doesn't make a spectacular upgrade after almost a year...

 

[Evangelion]

Hi and welcome. 🙂

Not to burst your bubble but:

1. Yeah, nice but because of the crippled FSB only half useful.

If they put there G5 with similar MHz and faster bus, I bet it would be slower overall. Even with that "crippled" FSB, G4 still holds it own against G5. So I fail to see the point there. And are there G4's with faster bus available?

Faster bus does not automatically translate in to faster system. Like I said, some systems need it, while other do not need it as much. G5 has ultra-fast bus when compared to G4, yet it's only about as fast as G4 clock for clock. Obviously, faster bus is NOT the be-all end-all improvement some people make it out to be. Of course fast bus is better than slow bus, but it's not necessarily better if you have to make sacrifices elsewhere to get it. And if you want the CPU witht eh fast bus (G5) in there, they would have to make sacrifices elsewhere (most importantly, the clock-speed). Would you rather have a PB with 1.66GHz G4 or PB with 1GHz G5? G5-PB would have faster bus, but would it be faster _system_?

3. Was available for the Rev. Cs already
4. Was available for the Rev. Cs already

only if you paid extra.

5. Who cares. One format is more than plentiful.

No it isn't. Rest of the world have moved to multiformat DVD's, it's about time Apple followed the rest. And while they are at it, RW-support would be nice.

6. Again, who cares? Not going to be of any use until a year or so.

Sure it could be useful. And besides, this is a chicken and the egg-problem. Why should Apple support BT 2.0, since there are no peripherals to take advantage of it? But why should peripheral-makers support BT2.0, since there are no systems to use it yet? I for one, am glad that Apple is leading here. Now, PB-users can be safe with the knowledge that when BT2.0 devices appear, their system is ready to take advantage of them. Should Apple support BT2.0 only after the devices become available? That would mean that existing users would have to upgrade in order to take advantage of BT2.0

1. The better display?

Better resolutions would be nice. Resolution on the 12" simply does not cut it for me. ANd 15" is starting to go beyond my budget

 

[Zaty]

About 120€ incl. VAT. Nice but awesome.



Yeah you beat me 😀 . We'll see today I guess but if none of the points I mentioned are upgraded then it is a real crappy upgrade.
Moving up a bit in MHz and dropping the price a bit doesn't make a spectacular upgrade after almost a year...

I couldn't agree more. From Apple's point of view it makes perfect sense. Why spend a lot of money on redesigning the AlBooks' logic boards to fit in new graphic chips etc. when they're already working on a completely new design due this autumn? Granted, that's a selfish corporate way of thinking but hey, corporations only want to make as much money as the possibly can, Apple's no exception. 🙂

 

[k2k koos]

Will there be a surprise here?

I don't know, my expectations are that what Thinksecret is reporting is probably fairly realistic, considering Apples troubles with G4's , but perhaps Freescales dual core G4's, (which is actually a system on chip, including various components previously found external to the current G4's) might be part of this line. They were said to debut at 1.5Ghz anyway in single and dual core configs... It would bring the much needed speed bump to the line and give the Apple Powerbooks a longer 'competitive' lease of life.

I can dream can't I?

 

[ts1973]

We'll see today I guess but if none of the points I mentioned are upgraded then it is a real crappy upgrade.
Moving up a bit in MHz and dropping the price a bit doesn't make a spectacular upgrade after almost a year...

Well, I agree it is not spectacular, but let's look at the Intel (or AMD) side of things : what did they produce laptop wise the last year ?? If we leave the desktop replacement market out of it, Intel switched their Centrino lines into a new name, and only increased the (level 3) cache from 1 to 2 Megs. AMD did (almost) nothing because they still lack a decent low-power A64 and sticks with Athlon-M. I'd say Apple is sitting in line with the others to receive decent next-gen processors.
Jut my 2c.

 

[mattster16]

In regards to "shipping right away," if I were to want to buy one in person, how long does it take for the stores to get them?
😀

I'm not too sure about that, but from what I remember you can pretty much go by Apple's website. When they update the website to reflect the upgrade the stores should, and generally do, have the upgraded product in stock. You can always call ahead to make sure though.. 😎

 

[Diatribe]

Well, I agree it is not spectacular, but let's look at the Intel (or AMD) side of things : what did they produce laptop wise the last year ?? If we leave the desktop replacement market out of it, Intel switched their Centrino lines into a new name, and only increased the (level 3) cache from 1 to 2 Megs. AMD did (almost) nothing because they still lack a decent low-power A64 and sticks with Athlon-M. I'd say Apple is sitting in line with the others to receive decent next-gen processors.
Jut my 2c.

I was not referring to the cpu, although it could be better I am not complaining that much about that.