The.Glorious.Son
macrumors 68000
For what it’s worth, I hovered consistently between 22%-50% and it didn’t help me.
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Other This is why I will not buy iPhone 12: OLED = PWM
- Thread starter lillo9546
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- flickering iphone mini oled pwm
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MICHAELSD
macrumors 603
Yup, “almost DC dimming” isn’t DC dimming.
60Hz mode on iPhone 12 Pro
Xiaomi DC dimming mode
LG OLED TV
Xiaomi’s implementation is closer to what I’d expect and more similar to LG’s which is essentially flicker-free, although not perfect.
Still, if we could get a similar setting on iOS I think it would address a majority of complaints.
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I used iPhone xs before but never got headaches, I guess i was really lucky that time to get a lg display iPhone. But not so lucky this time 12 mini, lucky can change to lg display.
Can you take a video of the LG display low brightness in HD 240 SLO-MO.
I am interested in the line patterns and the flicker.
I checked my device now and it is indeed a Samsung display (G9P). Do you know if I can change to an LG panel on the iPhone 12 Pro series?
MICHAELSD
macrumors 603
noobinator
macrumors 604
MICHAELSD
macrumors 603
I assume only the iPhone 12, possibly the 12 Pro, and apparently the Mini use panels from LG.
There is some incredible variance going on on the 12/12 Pro since I’ve noticed panel quality varying more widely to the point that if two phones are put next together one may have noticeably more vivid, natural colors. Notebookcheck also noted this in their measurements. I’m not sure if the PWM would also be different since it should technically be tuned to Apple’s specification.
noobinator
macrumors 604
MICHAELSD
macrumors 603
I don’t think there is one. Apparently iPhone 12 Pro is supposed to mitigate the effects of PWM as much as possible but it’s still using a low frequency and a high flicker coefficient. My anecdotal observation based on user experiences is 12 Pro Max > 12 Pro > 12 > 12 Mini.
Nonetheless I’m getting migraines with the Max and I would purchase a different model to test if one of them used true DC dimming or was definitively better, but it would probably end up being a waste of time.
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I called Apple support today and they ran a remote diagnostic on my device to determine if there was any display issue. The service advisor did say that they are aware that some users are sensitive to oled and he advised using an iPhone 11. they can’t specifically change a display from Samsung to LG.
He also mentioned that they are aware of flickering / green tint issues with iPhone 12 pro displays and they are trying to rectify this with an upcoming software update.
He also mentioned that they are aware of flickering / green tint issues with iPhone 12 pro displays and they are trying to rectify this with an upcoming software update.
Full blown pain,visual aura, dizziness and nausea. it happens if I look at the screen for 2 minutes which means that the pwm is causing an immediate brain response. It’s crazy!
The case with these iPhones is interesting if you look at it. First, the company made a name for itself, which was one of the best, and maybe even the best, absolutely everyone wanted an iPhone, and now it seems to me that most of us are not so used to it because it's also strangely addicted. I have my previous iPhone 6 so that it turned off in the cold, no matter how much% he had, he was cold, what to do ... after I lost it and I had a replacement phone for a few months, I swore that I would not buy the iPhone again !! and what...? and I'm done with iphone. It seems to me that many people are fed up with these phones, but they take the next ones out of habit
jimmy_uk
macrumors 68030
Sure, but only iphone runs iOS.
The strongest reason I don't switch to Android is my lack of trust regarding security. That's not to say iOS doesn't have vulnerabilities but Apple patches them fast and has strong controls over its app store. Google and the Android platform feels a little more Wild West. Of course you need to be careful with your usage on any computing device connected to the Internet, but I have much more trust in Apple and the apps I use. Also the thought of switching all my stored data....
But this may just be the fear of the unknown and change. 10+ years of usuage every single day = Yes, I've imprisoned myself with the iphone.
That said, my iPhone 7 Plus is still working - it's a solid, well made product that is still supported. And that support, coupled with the security, is a good reason to stick. Then I think: not being able to use any of the flagship iPhones for 4 years due to PWM is a very good reason to switch. 🤷♂️ But to what?
OLED has PWM and no manufacturers appear to be dealing with the effects for those of us who are sensitive on any mobile phone. And I don't see it ever being addressed, it will only go away when the industry moves to different screen technology and that's years away. Ugh.
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I'm close to upgrading to a 12 model, but I'm worried about the pwm flickering causing me headaches or migraines. I get a migraine once in awhile and I can sometimes point to a visual issue as the trigger.
I don't have any OLED screens and I don't know anyone in my covid bubble who has one, so I'd like to test one out first. But, how long does it take for an issue to start happening, if I stare at the phone for ten minutes and feel fine, is that enough time?
I know everyone is different, what was your experience, how long did it take for you to notice something?
Thanks very much,
I don't have any OLED screens and I don't know anyone in my covid bubble who has one, so I'd like to test one out first. But, how long does it take for an issue to start happening, if I stare at the phone for ten minutes and feel fine, is that enough time?
I know everyone is different, what was your experience, how long did it take for you to notice something?
Thanks very much,
jimmy_uk
macrumors 68030
Everyone is different but from what I've read (and from personal experience), eye irritation/fatigue is common within 10mins to an hour. I would end up with a migraine within the day.
While this issue appears to be more wide spread amongst some users as phone manufacturers have moved to OLED almost exclusively in their phones (so more people are experiencing the issue), and it is being discussed far more widely - I still think the numbers of us who are sensitive is a small number within the general population. Some have quoted 1 in 10 but I don't have these stats.
Back when the X launched and myself and others noticed the problem there was very little information about PWM on forums and it certainly was never mentioned in reviews. Now forums across all the manafactuers are discussing PWM and some reviewers are good enough to mention it and share the figures.
There are still many nay sayers who don't believe the OLED display or controller is the issue, and that it is more likely a medical issue or just in our heads. But I would say I have no issue with any display other than the ones in Apples (Samsung made) OLED iPhones.
I definitely think you should give it a go and not worry about it. The odds are in your favour that it will be fine.
Also welcome to the forum. This is one of the best on the Internet to discuss tech. 👍
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The very first time I saw an iPhone with an OLED screen was when a friend showed me his XS Max. At my very first glance at it with my peripheral vision at sunset, I instantly noticed the flickering of the screen. I noticed the flickering before I even looked at the damn thing.
I didn't play with it for long, a minute or so, so I wasn't subjected to it long enough to get eye strain/head ache but the flickering was very obvious to my sensitive eyes in the dim light.
It didn't matter whether that crappy screen gave me headaches or not, I sure as heck wasn't going to stare at an iPhone OLED strobe light everyday for the next 5 years
I didn't play with it for long, a minute or so, so I wasn't subjected to it long enough to get eye strain/head ache but the flickering was very obvious to my sensitive eyes in the dim light.
It didn't matter whether that crappy screen gave me headaches or not, I sure as heck wasn't going to stare at an iPhone OLED strobe light everyday for the next 5 years
For me I notice it instantly on the iPhone 12. The headache and dizziness happens after 5 minutes of usage. I can use the iPhone X without a problem. It probably has something to do with oled pwm frequency on the 12 and the brain response. My wife can use my iPhone 12 without a problem. You may not have any issue at all.
mkoai
macrumors newbie
I joined this site because for three months after a stretch of working I have been getting so terribly nauseaous that it's debilitating to the point that all I can do is lay down until it goes away after 30 minutes to an hour.
I began to notice it literally happens like clockwork after I finish working and get up from my iMac. I stopped using the imac and the nausea stopped.
I don't know how serious this is for you guys, but it's completely debilitating for me to the point that I want to cry because this is my work computer and it really has affected my productivity. I don't know what to do because people have told me that they buy completely new max's, macbooks and it still happens to them.
For me it seems to have gotten considerably worst after I upgraded to big sur. And there's like no setting for the display on the imac anymore. It's just icons big or large.
My imac also is by far the lowest Hz in my house. My phone is 120, laptop is 144 etc.
I really don't know what to do because I can't afford a new computer right now in this pandemic and my imac is my lifeline for work. But I'm so tired of feeling sick everyday.
Im glad I found this placed, teary eyed, because some people are skeptical of what I'm saying and how bad it is.
I did have Lasik eye surgery years ago so I don't know if it affects it more, but it is so so bad for me.
I began to notice it literally happens like clockwork after I finish working and get up from my iMac. I stopped using the imac and the nausea stopped.
I don't know how serious this is for you guys, but it's completely debilitating for me to the point that I want to cry because this is my work computer and it really has affected my productivity. I don't know what to do because people have told me that they buy completely new max's, macbooks and it still happens to them.
For me it seems to have gotten considerably worst after I upgraded to big sur. And there's like no setting for the display on the imac anymore. It's just icons big or large.
My imac also is by far the lowest Hz in my house. My phone is 120, laptop is 144 etc.
I really don't know what to do because I can't afford a new computer right now in this pandemic and my imac is my lifeline for work. But I'm so tired of feeling sick everyday.
Im glad I found this placed, teary eyed, because some people are skeptical of what I'm saying and how bad it is.
I did have Lasik eye surgery years ago so I don't know if it affects it more, but it is so so bad for me.
mkoai
macrumors newbie
Me too. I literally can't do anything but lay down for an hour.
I just can't believe this because I know this is happening to an insane amount of people and it isn't getting any coverage.
jimmy_uk
macrumors 68030
I'm sorry to read this. I would suggest your only real option is to get an external monitor that your eyes can tolerate, so with no PWM or very high rates. Its not ideal and comes at a cost, but you cannot continue damaging your health. Your employer should fit the bill (unless your self employed) but worst come to the worst you need to do what's right for your health.
I've avoided "upgrading" to Big Sur for fear of bugs and incompatibility with the Adobe suite which are my tools for graphic work. Not reading good things about it generally. The concern is this could be at a software level and/or coupled with the display controller and Apple are ignoring it, because it is happening for people on LCD Apple products as well as OLED.
As the majority of humans start to shift to using technology with displays for a large part of their work and leisure, it's a huge concern for long term health if these devices are not regulated for vision health.
Apple should be far more transparent about these issues, like they are attempting with privacy concerns, but this would only lead to media storm with headlines like "Apple products may be bad for your health" and their share price would take a hit. Got to keep the shareholders happy.
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