This thread is a response to "I got a free iPhone 4"

[Fernandez21]

He didn't steal the phone, apple got his money, thats how there was a balance on the card, apple recieved money and put a credit on the card representing how much he paid. What he could be stealing is all future items being purchased with the balance on te gift card.

 

[bbtrinet]

I agree completely. You can try to justify the error on apples part any way you'd like. But deep down inside you know you are stealing. Whether that matters to you or not is your business, nobody elses. However, you are indeed stealing. Do the right thing and bring it to their attention.

I completely agree. What murdercitydevil did was stealing. He would be guilty of petit larceny, as he knowingly took what was not his.

What is the difference from this iPhone theft, and murdercitydevil going to a walmart on the very busy Black Friday and taking a TV off the shelf and walking out with it, and laughing at how it was so busy that nobody noticed?

It's still theft even if nobody finds out about it.

 

[boy-better-know]

Stealing is stealing. Whether you steal a dollar or a million. Whether the OTHER person can afford the loss or not. It's stealing.

Really? You're going to "justify" it as not stealing because Apple's a big company? Wow

no one stole anything, because, effectively, the apple employee, who represents apple in this instance has handed over a phone.
there was no deception on the customers part.

 

[samcraig]

no one stole anything, because, effectively, the apple employee, who represents apple in this instance has handed over a phone.
there was no deception on the customers part.

He walked out with a card worth the value of the phone AND the phone. He DISCOVERED the error and is NOT returning one OR the OTHER

so he either way he's stolen the value of the phone.

Again - twist it however you want. You're wrong. It's not even open for debate.

The act of stealing didn't occur at the store. The act of stealing revealed itself the second he was aware of the error and made the decision to keep the card balance instead of returning it.

Look - the OP posted his "achievement" here on the message board. He didn't even post in the other thread - he created a NEW one to brag about it. And now you want to defend his actions?

ETA: You keep changing your argument. First it wasn't stealing. Then you said "it's hardly like stealing off a pauper is it?
apple is a multi billion dollar organization, I would take it too." So you're admitting he took something that wasn't his AND that it was OK since Apple can afford it.

Sad times.

 

[NeonGreenHermit]

He is only stealing if he obtained the item outside of legal transaction, and it isn't stealing if an employee screws the transaction up. If a customer walks out the store having paid for item X - which the OP did, albeit onto a gift card - the customer has done their part, and the law is on their side. Apple could either cancel the gift card, or bill him - the latter an illegal action, which they would back down if the OP threatened to bring the police into the matter. The store employee is responsible, not the customer.

Jeez, know your consumer rights guys. You must get ripped off buying an ice-cream. It pays to be shop-savvy, and yes he could call up to note the mistake, but that's a matter of ethics, not legality.

 

[Stoj]

How about this:

Got the original iPhone 2G as a gift.

Kept it until the 3GS came out, unlocked it and sold it for $300.

Got the 3GS as a gift.

Kept it until the iP4 came out, unlocked it and sold it for $510.

Got the iP4 as a gift, used my upgrade to order another one for $299. Will unlock it and sell it for $____.

 

[NeonGreenHermit]

How about this:

Got the original iPhone 2G as a gift.

Kept it until the 3GS came out, unlocked it and sold it for $300.

Got the 3GS as a gift.

Kept it until the iP4 came out, unlocked it and sold it for $510.

Got the iP4 as a gift, used my upgrade to order another one for $299. Will unlock it and sell it for $____.

You have a very generous benefactor!

I bought two iPhone 2G's when the UK price drop occurred, just before the original 3G came out. This was back in the day of at-home activation

Did I sign up for the contracts? Of course not. I violated the user agreement, but they could not request the iPhones back because I paid for them and had left the store - they were mine to do as I please. If I wanted to jailbreak them, it would be the same as ripping them apart and using their innards for scrap.

Know your rights, people!

 

[himni]

You guys are crazy. If someone came up to you and GAVE you $300 dollars, how would that be stealing?

The OP did everything he could in good faith to pay for an iPhone.

The Apple store, did just about everything they could to screw up the transaction.

I say keep the $367 as compensation for them making your debit/credit card unusable since you had to spend your own time fixing their screw up.

You're going to have to pay like $80-$90 a month to use the phone anyway, so AT&T will get their money.

As for apple... well, the joke is on them for doing such a superb job training at their new location. Maybe the same guys who designed the antennae were transferred to that store

The difference is that no one walked up to him and said here is some money for free or as a gift. What would you say if apple charged you double? I know for a fact anyone and everyone would say hey that's not the right price. Since it was of a benefit nothing was said. Just because someone made a mistake doesn't make it not stealing.

I wonder if the employee got in trouble? Or fired? Sounds like they never even caught it...


If it were me I'd probably feel guilty.

If it was caught which I can almost guarantee it was the employee was probably fired or had to pay for the mistake. Their drawer would have showed up as $367 short and that's pretty hard to explain.

no one stole anything, because, effectively, the apple employee, who represents apple in this instance has handed over a phone.
there was no deception on the customers part.

You don't have to deceive someone to make it stealing. An apple employee or not doesn't allow them to give away free iPhones. An employee is only allowed to do things they are authorized to do.

It is stealing and wrong. Try and put yourself in that employee's shoes and think about how your actions hurt that person. Not only is it selfish to not go back and correct the mistake it is gutless, honorless and unmoral. Do the right thing and go back to the store and tell them what happened you just might save someone their job and think about how much that person might have needed that job.

 

[greenday123]

uhh... wut?

 

[Stoj]

You have a very generous benefactor!

And I married her.

 

[iUser4Lyfe]

Moral police running rampant.

Did any of you take time to actually comprehend what the law defines as stealing before you jumped on your high horse? The LAW is actually on the OP side in this case. A consumer, who makes every attempt to acquire the product legally cannot be faulted for a mistake on Apples part.

1.) he tried to pay with his debit card which was rendered useless after this so called "Genius" got done with it.
2.) Even after the OP tried to rectify the issue and offered a FORM OF PAYMENT for the device, the so called "Genius" AGAIN screwed up the order. It is not the consumers responsibility to make sure Apples employees are doing their job.

Its not the customers fault, nor is he a thief. I'm not arguing that returning the phone or the money isn't the right thing to do, rather that legally the OP stole nothing.

 

[JustinSaneV2]

You guys are crazy. If someone came up to you and GAVE you $300 dollars, how would that be stealing?

The OP did everything he could in good faith to pay for an iPhone.

The Apple store, did just about everything they could to screw up the transaction.

I say keep the $367 as compensation for them making your debit/credit card unusable since you had to spend your own time fixing their screw up.

You're going to have to pay like $80-$90 a month to use the phone anyway, so AT&T will get their money.

As for apple... well, the joke is on them for doing such a superb job training at their new location. Maybe the same guys who designed the antennae were transferred to that store

Yes because Apple meant to intentionally give him an iPhone 4 for free. If he truly did "everything he could in good faith" he would have went back to the store and informed them of the situation.

 

[stahl7639]

1

 

[inviktus]

I have seen some pretty amazing rationalizations in my time, and a lot of it is right here in this thread.

Pretty simple, really: do unto others as you would have done unto yourself. If you made a mistake in your job through which someone else capitalized, and that person just walked away and left you to whatever punishment you were going to get, would you appreciate it?


-vik

 

[agjake01]

I completely agree. What murdercitydevil did was stealing. He would be guilty of petit larceny, as he knowingly took what was not his.

What is the difference from this iPhone theft, and murdercitydevil going to a walmart on the very busy Black Friday and taking a TV off the shelf and walking out with it, and laughing at how it was so busy that nobody noticed?

It's still theft even if nobody finds out about it.

Ran down a guy that did this exact thing at Walmart a few years back while I was looking for a parking spot. Something about the Walmart greeters running out the door yelling at the guy and he pushing a shopping cart with a 40" the opposite direction and bolting... didn't seem too happy when I flipped on the lights and hit the siren behind him.

Oh and yes.. the OP stole the phone. The law is the law. Don't like it, get elected and change legislation.. then maybe everyone will get a "free" iPhone.

 

[XJ13sd]

He didn't knowingly take it, not at first.. He thought he paid for it. Can apple tell which phone wasn't paid for? If so can't they link it with AT&T and see who activated it?
If I was OP I would be little worried about them actually having him arrested if he brought the phone back in( didn't that happen on like a Seinfeld episode or something with an iPod)

 

[LordOBoogie]

He totally stole it. Sorry, but he did.

 

[aliensporebomb]

I can picture it now...

Less fraudulent, my boss also received a free iPhone 4. He sent his 3GS in for a faulty battery repair and he was sent an iPhone 4 back in return. When he called to notify them of the mixup they asked for the serial number on the SIM tray and he was told that it was an iPhone 3GS he had received. After arguing for a bit about what the phone really was, he finally just said that he was satisfied with his 3GS and would keep it.

Boss: You sent me an iPhone4.

Apple: We sent you an iPhone 3gs.

Boss: You sent me an iPhone 4.

Apple: We sent you an iPhone 3gs.

Boss: You sent me an iPhone 4.

Apple: We're Apple. We know what products we sell better than you do.

Boss: You're the boss, I'll keep it.

 

[murdercitydevil]

Wow this thread really turned into a huge crapfest. Legally, I did not steal the phone, as others have said. The thread title may be misleading in that respect. The phone and AT&T service was obviously PAID FOR, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to walk out of the store. Both Apple and AT&T got paid. The gift card is where they screwed up. Like I said before, I don't know exactly how it happened, but if I had to guess, I would say that they charged 367 bucks onto the giftcard twice, or there were two separate cards, I don't know. But after everything was legally paid for, they gave me back a gift card that had 367 dollars on it. As for me keeping the money, call it unethical, immoral, whatever. I honestly feel very little empathy towards Apple because I had no intention of stealing anything, nor did I walk in there trying to scam anyone, nor could I have had any influence on the matter anyway. Once I gave them my 400 dollars in cash, the matter was out of my hands.

 

[tigress666]

You guys are crazy. If someone came up to you and GAVE you $300 dollars, how would that be stealing?

The employee didn't give him that gift card. That employee made a mistake in how to use the gift card ending in the money not being used towards the iphone. That's not a gift. That's a mistake. The money was mistakenly credited on the gift card so it is not his.

Less fraudulent, my boss also received a free iPhone 4. He sent his 3GS in for a faulty battery repair and he was sent an iPhone 4 back in return. When he called to notify them of the mixup they asked for the serial number on the SIM tray and he was told that it was an iPhone 3GS he had received. After arguing for a bit about what the phone really was, he finally just said that he was satisfied with his 3GS and would keep it.

This was definitely justified on your Boss's part. If they are going to argue when you try to be honest, I know I would no longer feel guilty keeping it. Obviously they are insisting I do.

as much as you sound like an honest person, it's hardly like stealing off a pauper is it?
apple is a multi billion dollar organization, I would take it too.

Cause, you know, it's perfectly ok to steal from big organizations. I'm surprised with that attitude you pay for anything. You should be able to just go pick things off the shelf and take them home long as you shop at the major franchises. It's not stealing if it is a big corporation.

Oh, and you are harming people. Cause those big corporations will reflect the money they lose to thieves and whatnot in the prices they charge for their products. So people who steal from them affect everyone else who buys that company's product.

He didn't steal the phone, apple got his money, thats how there was a balance on the card, apple recieved money and put a credit on the card representing how much he paid. What he could be stealing is all future items being purchased with the balance on te gift card.

Technically true.

Again - twist it however you want. You're wrong. It's not even open for debate.

Yes it is. We're debating it right now, aren't we?

He is only stealing if he obtained the item outside of legal transaction, and it isn't stealing if an employee screws the transaction up. If a customer walks out the store having paid for item X - which the OP did, albeit onto a gift card - the customer has done their part, and the law is on their side. Apple could either cancel the gift card, or bill him - the latter an illegal action, which they would back down if the OP threatened to bring the police into the matter. The store employee is responsible, not the customer.

Jeez, know your consumer rights guys. You must get ripped off buying an ice-cream. It pays to be shop-savvy, and yes he could call up to note the mistake, but that's a matter of ethics, not legality.

The only reasonable arguement for it not being stealing I've seen. I still say ethically it's stealing though.

I think this is a similar arguement to if you find something and don't try to return it to its owner (Except the law is on the side of people who feel it should be returned, or at least a serious attempt at returning it).

If it was caught which I can almost guarantee it was the employee was probably fired or had to pay for the mistake. Their drawer would have showed up as $367 short and that's pretty hard to explain.

I'm pretty sure most to all states it is illegal to make your employee pay for a product lost/money lost (I know, it makes sense to do so, but I think because that is too easily exploitable by crappy employers, they just made it illegal). But... it would at least put a mark on the employee's record that could easily get him fired (a lot of big retail chains will insist on stuff like three write ups or something before firing just to cover their butts in case the employee tries to sue. That way they can have a paper trail showing that he was rightfully fired. I'm betting Apple has something like this so not sure the employee would get fired right away. He may be cause there are still some offenses even these companies will fire for instantly).

 

[SophiaLee]

^ Not if it's a Right To Work state. They can fire you for no reason at all. And theft is grounds for immediate termination in ANY state, which Apple could certainly think the employee did.

In the end yeah it's stealing if he didn't go back, point out their mistake and pay for phone...but whatev, most people aren't very honest anymore.

 

[Knowimagination]

what does your receipt say? It should show the tender type.

 

[jns2001]

I think he should have returned the gift card, but also should have gotten some sort of compensation for time lost, gas, depreciation of his vehicle, and such, let's say 50 bucks for his troubles.

 

[stahl7639]

Doubt this story is even true.

 

[murdercitydevil]

This is the only receipt I ever received (another blunder on their part...don't even know if I could return the phone with this)