Those new MBP's had better be cheaper...

[bubble27]

Or you could buy a Mac, plus $80 for VMWare Fusion and run any flavor of Linux (or Windows, all the way back to 3.1) you want, right alongside.

True true....but that whole point of this thread is that the thread starter is in a dilemma whether to invest so much money in a MBP or just save $1k and get better specs on a dell.

Just mentioned an option

 

[elgrecomac]

If you think Apple is content with being a bit-player in the desktop and laptop market, you are sorely mistaken. Garnter recently said Apple could double it market share by 2011...3 years from now. Thats not the actions of a company being content with its current market position. And with regards to more employees, that can be addressed in 1 word: OUT-SOURCE. It works for Dell, Cisco, Oracle and a whole host of other companies.
Like I said, "Better" is defined as superior products coupled with excellent customer service. Not a long queue at the Apple Store Genius Bar with laptops AND desktops in hand like I saw just this past Saturday.

you cannot honestly hope that Apple can match the service and support that are offered by companies that are WAY bigger (in every way) than Apple. if Apple had to have the same number of employee to match the service offered by Dell, they will probably make no profit.



i myself, hope that Apple doesn't grow too much so i can still feel special & unique in a computer world of uglyness (is that a word?)

 

[TechHistorian]

As a 20 year user of windows and a recent convert to the Mac (MBP 2.6ghz) I do take issue with those with regard to customer service. Apple service is the main reason corporate America doesn't adopt the more superior Mac platform. In two words...."it sucks" compared with Dell or HP:
Apple does not have
1. 24/7 tech support (6am to 6pm....come on, Apple. Conform to our schedule and not force us to conform to yours.)
2. on-site repair (having to be be without my Mac scares me...i need and am willing to pay for this type of coverage. I would have to drive 40 miles and drop off my MPB for repair. In 2008, that is NOT customer service, but rather it is bovine fecal material)
3. catastrophic breakage coverage. As a road-warrior, **** happens and I need this type of coverage. Dell realizes this is a revenue opportunity and people are willing to pay for it.

And please don't say the macs DON'T break....this forum is full of issues and problems.

I have to keep my Dell just in case the MPB fails and I am without it for a period of time.

If Apple expects to get significantly more market share which it deserves given the OpSys and technical innovation, they HAVE to act and provide a service offering LIKE Dell. Then, many companies will begin the migration.

"Better" starts with the product and ends with customer service, period.

Then again, Apple is the only personal computer manufacturer with 30 years in the business. They must be doing something right. Even IBM, who offered far better service than any other computer maker, has gotten out of the PC business (hello, Lenovo). No matter how good IBM's service, price was the factor that determined most PC sales. Most large corporations and large institutions adopt HP/Dell/Lenovo because of volume licensing, not the service options. Indeed, quite a few if not most large corporations/universities provide their own repairs/service. Since the PC revolution, I've yet to be affiliated with a college or university that didn't service its own machines -- be it the 45,000-student university I received my PhD from or the 1600-student campus I work at today.

 

[akm3]

Apple is an aspirational brand, like Abercrombie and Fitch.

Like ANF, a lot of people hate it, a lot of people think it's over priced, everyone realizes you can get basically the same thing from Walmart for much cheaper, yet they continue to sell and make money.

Why?

Because there is status in owning one, and they are more beautiful, and in the case of the Apple's computers, you get a different customer experience while using the product.

Apple will never be cheaper than a Dell. They don't even want to be equivalently priced as a Dell. Why would they? They can charge more $$ for less stuff, and people will happily pay it. Just like BMW.

Aspirational brand means you don't have to trifle with 'price conscious' consumers who are just hunting for the best deal all the time.

 

[agojes]

Apple is an aspirational brand, like Abercrombie and Fitch.

Like ANF, a lot of people hate it, a lot of people think it's over priced, everyone realizes you can get basically the same thing from Walmart for much cheaper, yet they continue to sell and make money.

Why?

Because there is status in owning one, and they are more beautiful, and in the case of the Apple's computers, you get a different customer experience while using the product.

Apple will never be cheaper than a Dell. They don't even want to be equivalently priced as a Dell. Why would they? They can charge more $$ for less stuff, and people will happily pay it. Just like BMW.

Aspirational brand means you don't have to trifle with 'price conscious' consumers who are just hunting for the best deal all the time.

Indeed. Very well put.

 

[CalBoy]

You're basing your argument on things the original poster never wrote.

Well since the OP doesn't want to answer the question I originally put forth, my only explanation can be that he forgot those elements in his analysis and now is willing to abandon his claim.

Until the OP answers some of my questions/comments, us going back and forth is a fruitless endeavor.

Apple is an aspirational brand, like Abercrombie and Fitch.

Like ANF, a lot of people hate it, a lot of people think it's over priced, everyone realizes you can get basically the same thing from Walmart for much cheaper, yet they continue to sell and make money.

The clothes you get at WalMart are definitely not the same in terms of quality. Even within certain companies there is a tiered system to ensure that the clothes are progressively better as you move up within the brand's own stores (ie, Old Navy vs Gap vs Banana Republic).

Maybe you don't care about subtle differences in clothing quality and style, but there are plenty of people who do (I don't like Abercrombie and Fitch btw, but for other reasons).

As with most things in life, you get what you pay for.

Apple will never be cheaper than a Dell.

Actually, I believe many Dell towers are more expensive than the Mac Pro.

 

[heatmiser]

my only explanation can be that he forgot those elements in his analysis and now is willing to abandon his claim.

You're still basing your argument on things he hasn't mentioned.

 

[CalBoy]

You're still basing your argument on things he hasn't mentioned.

Everything needn't be written out in black and white for me to make conjecture.

 

[cbrain]

Try living in the UK mate, there even more overpriced over here...

 

[heatmiser]

Everything needn't be written out in black and white for me to make conjecture.

Your conjectures are self-serving in support of your argument. They don't actually address anything written by the thread's starter.

 

[CalBoy]

Your conjectures are self-serving in support of your argument. They don't actually address anything written by the thread's starter.

I assumed my direct questions to him were addressing him and what he wrote.

I'm not looking to start a feud with anyone here, so I'm going to just save my real responses for the OP now.

 

[heatmiser]

I assumed my direct questions to him were addressing him and what he wrote.

You're asking him to consider factors irrelevant to those he considered in a purchase he will be making to suit his needs with his money.

 

[CalBoy]

You're asking him to consider factors irrelevant to those he considered in a purchase he will be making to suit his needs with his money.

Now who's basing an argument off of things the OP never stated?

Seriously, check out how much you get for your money:

Dell XPS M1530
My Compone(PRODUCT) RED
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor T7800 (2.6GHz/800Mhz FSB, 4MB Cache)
Windows® Vista Ultimate (PRODUCT) RED
High Resolution, glossy widescreen 15.4 Inch LCD (1680x1050) & 2.0 MP
4GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz (2 Dimms)
200GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive
Slot Load DVD+/-RW (DVD/CD read/write)
256MB NVIDIA® GeForce® 8600M GT
Intel Next-Gen Wireless-N Mini-card
Dell Wireless 355 Bluetooth Internal (2.0+Enhanced Data Rate)
56 WHr 6-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery
High Definition Audio 2.0
+
3 Yr. Warranty
+
4 Yr. Accidental Damage protection and Lojack for laptops

How much for all of this?

I mean, I'm willing to pay a premium for Apple's computers but geez, that's like a $1000 (or perhaps more) premium for the MBP!

I'm one of those whose waiting for the new MBP's but they better be darn worth the money...

... and the wait.

You're asking him to consider factors irrelevant to those he considered in a purchase he will be making to suit his needs with his money.

He never once mentioned that these were his precise needs or that other factors were/are not relevant.

Let's stop this now because without the OP, we're just wasting time.

 

[heatmiser]

He never once mentioned that these were his precise needs or that other factors were/are not relevant.

You're assuming battery life, weight, and size should be his prime considerations without regard to what he's written.

 

[CalBoy]

You're assuming battery life, weight, and size should be his prime considerations without regard to what he's written.

I didn't say they should be his prime concerns. I simply stated that he should factor them in (because many others would view it as an important concern).

 

[heatmiser]

I didn't say they should be his prime concerns. I simply stated that he should factor them in (because many others would view it as an important concern).

As he will be the one to purchase the machine with his own money, why not simply address the concerns of his post instead of telling him to factor in things relevant to your interests?

 

[CalBoy]

As he will be the one to purchase the machine with his own money,

He actually stated quite clearly that he is NOT going to buy that machine, nor is he interested in it (or one like it). He was using that machine as a test bed to show how expensive the mbp is, which cannot be known until we have all the information before us.

why not simply address the concerns of his post instead of telling him to factor in things relevant to your interests?

There is no "concern" listed in the post other than, "the macbook pro is expensive."

 

[elgrecomac]

in response to Techistorian...

I appreciate your point but, having worked in corporate America for 30 years, companies are focusing on their core competencies these days...and PC maintenance is not one of them. The outsourcing model is pervasive. Basic maintenance is handled by small staffs but no major company has an army of IT staff servicing the desktops anymore. That business model has been gone for 5 years or more. A small contingent accommodates the basics and everything else is 'Call Dell" or "Call HP".

And as for Apple's 30 years in the business, well, 7% market share is a bit- player after 30 years. It’s a testament to an excellent product and strong brand loyalty. My point is that if Apple wishes to grow to 20% (which I hope they do and Gartner says they are capable of), then Service will need to be an essential component in that growth strategy. I believe we can both agree there is room for significant improvement in the service area.

Then again, Apple is the only personal computer manufacturer with 30 years in the business. They must be doing something right. Even IBM, who offered far better service than any other computer maker, has gotten out of the PC business (hello, Lenovo). No matter how good IBM's service, price was the factor that determined most PC sales. Most large corporations and large institutions adopt HP/Dell/Lenovo because of volume licensing, not the service options. Indeed, quite a few if not most large corporations/universities provide their own repairs/service. Since the PC revolution, I've yet to be affiliated with a college or university that didn't service its own machines -- be it the 45,000-student university I received my PhD from or the 1600-student campus I work at today.

 

[heatmiser]

He actually stated quite clearly that he is NOT going to buy that machine

Again, no one has said he wants to buy the Dell; however, you're still arguing he should base his needs on features important to you, and not to him. Why?

 

[CalBoy]

however, you're still arguing he should base his needs on features important to you, and not to him. Why?

He hasn't actually yet stated that those are the features that are important to him. He merely plucked a random Dell off the web and compared it to the macbook pro to say that the macbook pro is more expensive. That's all his point is here.

My point is that he has left out several important factors in his consideration, and he hasn't yet answered me.

This thread is nothing more than the standard "Macs are so expensive" types that crop up 10 times a day here. He's not looking to buy, he's not looking for advice, he's not looking for anything more than to point out that he feels Apple prices its products incorrectly.

My point is that if he wants to make that assertion, he needs to first consider all the other factors that make up a notebook.

 

[greenmeanie]

What makes apple's parts better?

Go ahead and order your Dell then. Mac doesn't do cheaper. You pay for better parts, operating system, and customer service.

If money is the issue go for a Dell and suffer with vista.

 

[heatmiser]

He hasn't actually yet stated that those are the features that are important to him.

You're still proposing he should compare the Dell to the MBP based on factors that have relevance to you, even though you won't be purchasing either machine with his money.

 

[Papajohn56]

The nicest part of that is the accidental damage coverage, I kind of wish Apple did that.

 

[Jestered]

I believe we can both agree there is room for significant improvement in the service area.

Apple is consistently ranked as the #1 service and support provider in their field. They are consistently ranked higher than Dell, HP, etc...

Dell has 24 hour support... big deal. Dell accomplishes this by outsourcing their support to India. I don't want to spend hours on the phone with some support guy that I can't understand and they can't understand me. That is not what I call great support, even if I can have that annoying support call at 2am.

I think you mentioned that Apple does not provide onsite support.... wrong. AppleCare does include onsite support for desktops that are harder to carry around. As for laptops... send it in, you will have it back in a few days (most the time).

"The AppleCare Protection Plan ensures that Apple-authorized technicians will perform repairs using genuine Apple parts(2). With this plan, parts and labor will be covered for three years from your computer’s purchase date. The plan includes onsite service for desktop computers and global repair coverage, which can be very important if you travel abroad.

 

[roland.g]

They had better. Won't happen. Apple knows the competitve sweet spot for their pricing and the MBP sells just fine. They update it with better specs, but the price stays the same. If you want it cheaper, get the current model when the new ones come out at MacMall or somewhere for like $300 off.