Three Products We Might See at WWDC 2023

[Realityck]

So even the Max versions are noisy? Not just the Ultra?

That's weird to me because the M1 Max MacBook Pro is completely silent. Is the fan just on all the time then?

The thermo design is different between the Studio using the M1 Max vs Ultra. Yes many observered the MacStudio is noisy.

Mac Studio Owners Complain of Irritating High-Pitched Noise

Some Mac Studio owners have noticed that their machines are making a high-pitched "whining" sound that appears to be coming from the fan....

www.macrumors.com

 

[Ethosik]

So even the Max versions are noisy? Not just the Ultra?

That's weird to me because the M1 Max MacBook Pro is completely silent. Is the fan just on all the time then?

The ones I tested had the same issue. My M1 Max 16” MacBook Pro is quiet and doesn’t have the issue.

 

[ThisBougieLife]

That's disappointing. Hope they fix the issue with the next Studio (and hope the M2 Pro Mac Mini doesn't have it). I probably wouldn't have ordered a Mac Studio, but I do want a Mac desktop some day. Since I know what it's like to have a silent computer, I certainly won't be getting one that makes a whining sound.

 

[Ethosik]

The thermo design is different between the Studio using the M1 Max vs Ultra. Yes many observered the MacStudio is noisy.

Mac Studio Owners Complain of Irritating High-Pitched Noise

Some Mac Studio owners have noticed that their machines are making a high-pitched "whining" sound that appears to be coming from the fan....

www.macrumors.com

Yeah it's not noisy in the traditional way of thinking. I would take a much louder Mac Studio if it was lower pitch. But the high pitch very very very faint "bug in your ear" noise is like nails on a chalkboard.

 

[lysingur]

Metal 3 is already showing how Mac AutoCad could see increased performance. It’s more the graphics improvements effect a lot of what you use regularly with your Macs.

But against games coming using Metal3 a post from Homy listed a lot more in the works.

Someone already asked on that thread, but where did he get his information from?

Even if true, few games on that list are of note. You'd be hard-pressed to find a single top 10-selling game that's available on macOS.

Metal 3 is an incremental update. I don't think there is any doubt about that. And as I said before, it doesn't matter if Metal 3 has pulled ahead of Vulcan or DirectX in terms of features, the entire Apple ecosystem is hostile to game development.

 

[Ethosik]

Someone already asked on that thread, but where did he get his information from?

Even if true, few games on that list are of note. You'd be hard-pressed to find a single top 10-selling game that's available on macOS.

Metal 3 is an incremental update. I don't think there is any doubt about that. And as I said before, it doesn't matter if Metal 3 has pulled ahead of Vulcan or DirectX in terms of features, the entire Apple ecosystem is hostile to game development.

macOS is a platform. I don't think it's any more hostile than Windows, Xbox or Playstation is. The problem is marketshare. Developers don't want to prioritize it. We regularly see absolutely horrible PC ports of console games (most recently Last of Us which I was so excited for but am extremely disappointed). If companies treat PC gamers this way, its no surprise macOS is treated much much worse by not getting anything.

 

[Realityck]

Metal 3 is an incremental update. I don't think there is any doubt about that. And as I said before, it doesn't matter if Metal 3 has pulled ahead of Vulcan or DirectX in terms of features, the entire Apple ecosystem is hostile to game development.

MacOS doesn’t require games be installed through the App Store, can readily be from web based stores, and cloud based gaming. so is software development really hostile or is it challenging because Apple hasn’t advanced metal 3 sufficiently to allow Direct X 12 graphics to work yet as one reason? Or are we simply saying Tim Cook applies no marketing emphasis on games so ignoring that way of promoting AS Based Macs? I certainly agree Apple needs to badly improve how they promote Macs to consumer.

 

[rp2011]

Q1 was nearly $8B in Mac sales, so they most definitely are making money. Apple sold over 26M Macs in 2022. While nowhere near iPhone volume, I'd hardly call 26M "low volume".

I agree that the product line doesn't need so many machines. It feels like the Mini, Studio, and Pro could be merged into some sort of modular product. At it's most basic, it's a Mini. Maxed out, it's a Pro. That leaves two desktop options, the all-in-one iMac and a modular desktop Mac. I do think Apple's product line has gotten too bloated over the years. Tim should seek inspiration/clarity in Steve's old product matrix from shortly after Steve returned to Apple.

Yes, but of the $8B in Mac sales, 74% are MacBooks, and the 4 desktop models combined only make up 26%.
And all PC brands see desktops struggling, and even gaming PCs are a niche market.
Laptop performance has gotten so good, consumers don't really need to look anywhere else.

 

[Realityck]

Yes, but of the $8B of Mac sales, 74% are MacBooks, and the 4 desktop models combined only make up 26%.
All PC brands see desktops struggling, and even gaming PCs are a niche market. I own both M1 MacBook Pro and an M1 Mac Studio and love both and love choice, but with many low-selling desktop models, it seems unsustainable and unnecessary.
Laptops performance has gotten so good, consumers don't really need to look anywhere else.

That’s a reminder that the $1599 Studio Display needs to be competitive, as well as the unannounced Mac Pro needs a XDR display. The choices for MBPs users is very limited, the studio display feature set is duplicated on the MBP, perhaps the Viewfinity S9 display will help when the pricing is announced towards summer.

 

[v0lume4]

Studio’s fans are far too whiny for me. I want a Mac Pro for the louder but lower fan noise vs this very faint but so annoying whine even on idle. I have tried many studios and they all suffer from it. I gave up trying to get it replaced and am just dealing with it.

The fans still sound like that? Wow. What a shame they never fixed them. I’m really sensitive to those high pitched types of noises. I’ve returned a number of laptops for that very reason. You’d think Apple of all people would have caught that during QA.

 

[Warped9]

People tend to think of a desktop computer as a tower parked underneath the desk or table, but strictly speaking a Mac Mini or Mac Studio is a desktop computer only it sits on rather than under the desk. The only major distinction between the Mini and Studio and conventional desktops is size and that PC desktops come with a keyboard and mouse included. Besides most of whats inside a conventional is empty space.

 

[DelayedGratificationGene]

This is insane that this is actually where they may have landed with this product.

Insane? That’s a bit much. I think Apple may know what they’re doing. They seem like pretty smart people over there. Don’t u think?

 

[BobSc]

The fans still sound like that? Wow. What a shame they never fixed them. I’m really sensitive to those high pitched types of noises. I’ve returned a number of laptops for that very reason. You’d think Apple of all people would have caught that during QA.

It's alway good to take the word of one person as the gospel and make decisions based upon that. I have a Studio Ultra and Studio Max. Both are silent. And I have very good hearing.

I note that YayArea gave the quoted post a thumbs up. I'd like to ask YayArea which Apple Studio he has and if he hears anything from them.

 

[v0lume4]

It's alway good to take the word of one person as the gospel and make decisions based upon that. I have a Studio Ultra and Studio Max. Both are silent. And I have very good hearing.

I note that YayArea gave the quoted post a thumbs up. I'd like to ask YayArea which Apple Studio he has and if he hears anything from them.

I’ve heard a number of people complain about this very issue. So it’s certainly a widespread issue. How widespread? @Ethosik (the gent I replied to) said that he tried multiple Studios all with the same issue.

Now, it sounds like some units don’t have this issue (yours). It’s great that at least some of the units don’t exhibit this issue. So that we make sure we’re on the same page, are we talking about the same fan whistle? Some people genuinely aren’t bothered by high pitched fans. Let me try to find a YouTube video.

Edit- Here you go:

 

[iamgalt]

Apple very rarely unveil products at WWDC, it’s a developer conference and focus on software , updates and chips in machines. Macs are usually November, phones are September , small upgrades are done in march without a conference , chances of actually products being shown off at this event are slim and if there is it will likely be headphone updates .. it’s been the same for the last 4 years or so so it won’t be any different this year. It’s a software development event focusing on software IOS 17, pad OS , Mac OS , TV OS , music updates and watch OS , upcoming developer apps like swift and mental , new ways to use these , and upcoming mac chips they are working on

youre Most likely correct, but I hope you’re wrong. I’d like to see a product or two introduced/updated.

 

[ThisBougieLife]

Apple very rarely unveil products at WWDC, it’s a developer conference and focus on software , updates and chips in machines. Macs are usually November, phones are September , small upgrades are done in march without a conference , chances of actually products being shown off at this event are slim and if there is it will likely be headphone updates .. it’s been the same for the last 4 years or so so it won’t be any different this year. It’s a software development event focusing on software IOS 17, pad OS , Mac OS , TV OS , music updates and watch OS , upcoming developer apps like swift and mental , new ways to use these , and upcoming mac chips they are working on

That's just simply untrue. In the last four years, the rate of hardware introduction has been 50%. 2019: new hardware introduced, 2020: none, 2021: none, 2022: new hardware introduced. Since 2017, it's been 50/50 hardware or not as well. Before that, hardware was rarer, yes, and software is a guarantee at the event, but the trend in recent years is there's about an equal chance of new hardware or none.

 

[lysingur]

macOS is a platform. I don't think it's any more hostile than Windows, Xbox or Playstation is. The problem is marketshare. Developers don't want to prioritize it. We regularly see absolutely horrible PC ports of console games (most recently Last of Us which I was so excited for but am extremely disappointed). If companies treat PC gamers this way, its no surprise macOS is treated much much worse by not getting anything.

I never said macOS is hostile to games.

 

[lysingur]

MacOS doesn’t require games be installed through the App Store, can readily be from web based stores, and cloud based gaming. so is software development really hostile or is it challenging because Apple hasn’t advanced metal 3 sufficiently to allow Direct X 12 graphics to work yet as one reason? Or are we simply saying Tim Cook applies no marketing emphasis on games so ignoring that way of promoting AS Based Macs? I certainly agree Apple needs to badly improve how they promote Macs to consumer.

I already answered all your questions in my previous post.

Apple's entire gaming strategy, if it even has one, is misinformed.

• Not enough units on the market justify the cost of developing/porting AAA games for macOS/iOS.
• SoC design doesn't allow much expandability.
• Failure to aggressively leverage Apple TV as a game console.

Tim Cook made a fatal mistake in pivoting Apple and directing its financial and human resources toward Apple TV+, which has never turned a profit since its inception. In fact, it's hemorrhaging billions.

Metal 3 is an incremental update. I don't think there is any doubt about that. And as I said before, it doesn't matter if Metal 3 has pulled ahead of Vulcan or DirectX in terms of features, the entire Apple ecosystem is hostile to game development.

 

[Ethosik]

I’ve heard a number of people complain about this very issue. So it’s certainly a widespread issue. How widespread? @Ethosik (the gent I replied to) said that he tried multiple Studios all with the same issue.

Now, it sounds like some units don’t have this issue (yours). It’s great that at least some of the units don’t exhibit this issue. So that we make sure we’re on the same page, are we talking about the same fan whistle? Some people genuinely aren’t bothered by high pitched fans. Let me try to find a YouTube video.

Edit- Here you go:

I need the computer for work. I tried about 5 of them. I do not want to have a chore from Apple and play lottery to "get the best Mac Studio you can by returning 100 Macs!". Could I have eventually gotten a good one? Yes, probably. Should I still be expected to keep exchanging it on a weekly basis? No. At some point I needed to stop so I can actually do my work on it. If the Mac Pro is released as-is and has louder while low pitch fan noise and has a reasonable starting price, I will be replacing my Mac Studio with the Mac Pro.

Yes, good lord that whine is so annoying omg I just can't stand it. Give me a 10x louder Mac with deeper low-pitch sound I would be happier. I do have a Gaming PC with 7 fans after all.

 

[Ethosik]

I never said macOS is hostile to games.

Yes you did.

the entire Apple ecosystem is hostile to game development

 

[v0lume4]

that whine is so annoying omg I just can't stand it. Give me a 10x louder Mac with deeper low-pitch sound I would be happier. I do have a Gaming PC with 7 fans after all.

I can’t stand high pitched fan whine either. You might have seen me mention in another comment, I’ve returned like 3-4 laptops for this very reason. I finally found one that makes a non-obtrusive “whoosh”.

Apple’s laptops aren’t immune from this behavior either. Apple’s 13-inch MacBook Pro suffers from this very same issue. Thankfully the fans on that unit do not kick in often. But it’s still there.

 

[lysingur]

Yes you did.

the entire Apple ecosystem is hostile to game development

So macOS = Apple ecosystem?

You know what a logical fallacy is? Or maybe this is some ill-conceived April Fools' on your part?

Amazing I even have to post this link, but here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_ecosystem

 

[richinaus]

The ones I tested had the same issue. My M1 Max 16” MacBook Pro is quiet and doesn’t have the issue.

My ultra is silent no matter what I do but my 14" MBP M1 Max gets very loud doing similar tasks [I actually use the tech to the limits].

 

[Realityck]

My ultra is silent no matter what I do but my 14" MBP M1 Max gets very loud doing similar tasks [I actually use the tech to the limits].

That is where the 16" MBP vs 14" MBP has its advantages, the pipe, fan size, heat sink on the SoC are larger then the 14". On the 16" the fans don't kick on until you close to close to its regulation temps.
But yeah in sustained performance loads the Mac Studio ultra has its advantages compared to the thermos used by 14"/16". I would expect a small tower Mac Pro to be superior cooling than the Studio given its size advantages if that's what's they go with. But that's not around to think about.

 

[Ethosik]

So macOS = Apple ecosystem?

You know what a logical fallacy is? Or maybe this is some ill-conceived April Fools' on your part?

Amazing I even have to post this link, but here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_ecosystem

Holy wow, Mac is part of the Apple ecosystem. iPhone/iPad/all mobile etc are actually one of the most profitable part of gaming these days too. And gaming on an Apple Watch?