Thunderbolt 3 Ports on Right Side of 13-Inch MacBook Pro Have Reduced PCI Express Bandwidth

[citysnaps]

This is not a choice. other companies do the same. It's strategicaly placed in a way that will force you to buy a more expensive one even though performance wise the base is more than enough for you, but you will buy the more expensive one because ports are ****ed up one the base model on purpose. This is not new.

Yes, all companies that manufacture consumer goods, as I pointed out above, offer a range of models to CHOOSE from.

It's up to YOU to pick the best model for your needs.

Also, there are many manufactures that offer a similar range of goods.

Don't like Apples range of laptops that have FOUR TB 3/USB C ports that can drive multiple external 5K displays, with high performance color accurate DCI P3 gamut display, huge haptic trackpad that's sensitive over the WHOLE surface, compact size, low weight, 10 hour battery?

No worries. I'm sure you can find the same thing in a Microsoft or other manufacturer's array of compact laptops.

 

[Hanzu Lao]

Yes, all companies that manufacture consumer goods, as I pointed out above, offer a range of models to CHOOSE from.

It's up to YOU to pick the best model for your needs.

Also, there are many manufactures that offer a similar range of goods.

Don't like Apples range of laptops that have FOUR TB 3/USB C ports that can drive multiple external 5K displays, with high performance color accurate DCI P3 gamut display, huge haptic trackpad that's sensitive over the WHOLE surface, compact size, low weight, 10 hour battery?

No worries. I'm sure you can find the same the same thing in a Microsoft or other manufacturer's array of compact laptops.

Last time i used windows was 2 decades ago.

 

[citysnaps]

Stop trying to disguise this as "choice." It's the same thing as offering 16GB then 64GB on the iPhones; people are forced to buy the top options because the lower one is frankly useless. It's an obvious example of "upselling" and you're trying to defend it.

Defend it? Hardly.

Many people who do not have large music collections or take many photos will do just fine with 16 GB.

For those that need more, pay for it. Or CHOOSE another manufacturer.

 

[Hanzu Lao]

Defend it? Hardly.

Many people who do not have large music collections or take many photos will do just fine with 16 GB.

For those that need more, pay for it. Or CHOOSE another manufacturer.

It's says PRO somewhere in there, right?

 

[Mac 128]

This is not a choice. other companies do the same. It's strategicaly placed in a way that will force you to buy a more expensive one even though performance wise the base is more than enough for you, but you will buy the more expensive one because ports are ****ed up one the base model on purpose. This is not new.

So why do you think the Retina MacBook has been successful? It only has one port, and people are required to pay so much more than the MBA.

Here's the bottom line, the previous MB only has two USB 3 ports and two Thunderbolt ports. How often did you plug in two Thunderbolt devices and two USB 3 devices at the same time? How often did you do that and plug in HDMI at the same time too?

If you actually need that kind of support, then yes you will have to pay more for it now, or pay less and buy an inexpensive adapter that gives you all the ports you could want.

Or wait a year for the prices to drop. If you're on a budget, then you can make due with your 2 year old Mac, which is still pretty amazing by current standards, until the market catches up with your needs. In fact, I were in the market for a new MacBook, I still wouldn't buy one until the new Intel chips are out, which is at least a year away, since the current chips don't offer significant performance boosts over the previous couple of models. I'd like to upgrade, but I don't see anything in this one for me. Instead, this Summer I gave my 2011 MBP to a relative and bought a new 2012 MBP for $1,000, hedging my bets against spending twice that for a 2015 MBP to see what Apple would release now. While I'm sure the new MBP will be a substantial improvement over my 2012, the 2012 is still serving all my needs. And I'm thinking I need to buy a USB-C adapter so I can start upgrading my gear before I eventually move up to the next gen processor models.

This is still very much your choice.

 

[Suckfest 9001]

It's says PRO somewhere in there, right?

Exactly. In reality, this is no longer a pro laptop lineup. It's more of a fashion item than anything at this point.

 

[Hanzu Lao]

So why do you think the Retina MacBook has been successful? It only has one port, and people are required to pay so much more than the MBA.

Hipsters mostly.

 

[citysnaps]

It's says PRO somewhere in there, right?

No, it does not. The person I was responding to brought up iPhones. There is no iPhone "Pro."

 

[Voidness]

Reasons? They had courage.

Hah! Indeed.

Anyone reading this thread understands to technical reasons.

The irritation isn't about that, it's that Apple chose to put in 2 semi ports for aesthetic reasons while stripping out the ports people use every day.

You're acting like Apple had no choice but to put in four ports.

Semi ports for aesthetic reasons? The ports on the right are still Thunderbolt 3 ports, and provide the full USB 3.1 throughput. Only Thunderbolt 3 devices would run at a reduced speed. Four Thunderbolt 3 ports, even with two running at a reduced speed, is still a lot of bandwidth.

As for Apple taking out the other ports (USB-A, HDMI, SD Card Slot, and the beloved MagSafe), then that criticism also applies to the 15". I do agree Apple should've left at least one USB-A port to make the transition to USB-C less cumbersome. But Apple loves removing ports, and we've known this about them for years.

 

[Mac 128]

Hipsters mostly.

I see. You really don't want to have an intelligent debate, just air your grievances, and unfairly stereotype people exposing your bigotry in the process.

The MBA works with one port because people use it mostly wirelessly. Apple is designing a MacBook for the future, where ports aren't as vital as they once were. Heck I even use my Apple TV to mirror my screen to my 4K Flatscreen, and I have all the ports I could need.

I think I'm done chatting with you, but you have a nice day.

 

[roderickv]

How many actually need that bandwidth on even ONE port much less 3 to 4? And are actually in the market for the 13" Pro right now? How many were truly planning to get the 13" and hook up 4 TB3 devices that need that bandwidth? How many pay zero attention to far more significant positives, from screen quality to giant trackpad?

Using your analogy - how many actually need a brighter screen or larger track pad - or thinner laptop for that matter? What's significant for you may not be for others.

 

[Hanzu Lao]

I see. You really don't want to have an intelligent debate, just air your grievances, and unfairly stereotype people exposing your bigotry in the process.

The MBA works with one port because people use it mostly wirelessly. Apple is designing a MacBook for the future, where ports aren't as vital as they once were. Heck I even use my Apple TV to mirror my screen to my 4K Flatscreen, and I have all the ports I could need.

I think I'm done chatting with you, but you have a nice day.

Ok, but it's true. It's evening here, but thank you.

 

[Carlanga]

How many actually need that bandwidth on even ONE port much less 3 to 4? And are actually in the market for the 13" Pro right now? How many were truly planning to get the 13" and hook up 4 TB3 devices that need that bandwidth? How many pay zero attention to far more significant positives, from screen quality to giant trackpad?

because they don't specify it for the consumer. You need to find that support page to see it. It doesn't matter that you need just one port, how about if that person uses the slower port and suffers from it without realizing the left ones are better. Don't be an applelogetic, sure the trackpad and screen are nice but just because one thing is nice it doesn't mean the other stuff should go unnoticed.
[doublepost=1477847956][/doublepost]

I see. You really don't want to have an intelligent debate, just air your grievances, and unfairly stereotype people exposing your bigotry in the process.

The MBA works with one port because people use it mostly wirelessly. Apple is designing a MacBook for the future, where ports aren't as vital as they once were. Heck I even use my Apple TV to mirror my screen to my 4K Flatscreen, and I have all the ports I could need.

I think I'm done chatting with you, but you have a nice day.

Airplay still has lag and some audio limitations in many instances plus remember our atv4 doesn't do 4k so IDK why you need to detail that is a 4k flatscreen.

The wireless future right now is slow as molasses, everything wireless is still slower than wired and suffers many issues. When wireless catches up then we can talk about the future, maybe 10 years from now, but these Macbooks are today tech.

 

[bjet767]

Then I see the gimped up MacBooks that sell for the price of a pro laptop and scratch my head.

You need to price equally equipped and designed machines. I could be wrong but all the machines I check out, Microsoft, Lenovo, and others are all close in price and specs.

The argument of "gimped" Apple machines doesn't hold water. Rather than make bold hyperbolic statements would you please post factual apples to apples and oranges to oranges comparisons. To do otherwise is being less than honest.

 

[rwstgermain]

Hoping someone tests the Razer core eGPU with bootcamp running on these new Macbook Pro's

 

[KPOM]

because they don't specify it for the consumer. You need to find that support page to see it. It doesn't matter that you need just one port, how about if that person uses the slower port and suffers from it without realizing the left ones are better. Don't be an applelogetic, sure the trackpad and screen are nice but just because one thing is nice it doesn't mean the other stuff should go unnoticed.

Aside from specially marking this, there isn't much Apple can do beyond what they did (i.e. putting it up on their website), and hopefully in the official product documentation.

Based on what we know, the ports on the right will still achieve Thunderbolt 2 speeds, which are still twice as fast as USB 3.1 Gen 2 (and fast enough for any legacy Thunderbolt device that a current MacBook Pro owner is using). What's silly is that some people are suggesting that Apple should have made those ports USB 3.1 Gen 2 if they couldn't provide the full Thunderbolt 3 PCIe bandwidth. That would make no sense since it would place even more limitations.

 

[Pootmatoot]

You need to price equally equipped and designed machines. I could be wrong but all the machines I check out, Microsoft, Lenovo, and others are all close in price and specs.

The argument of "gimped" Apple machines doesn't hold water. Rather than make bold hyperbolic statements would you please post factual apples to apples and oranges to oranges comparisons. To do otherwise is being less than honest.

The Dell XPS 15 line (being updated in 2 months with Kaby Lake and Nvidia 10) seems to tick that box, as does the XPS 13 compared to the Mac Air/lower MacBook Pro.
[doublepost=1477848312][/doublepost]

Hoping someone tests the Razer core eGPU with bootcamp running on these new Macbook Pro's

Very unlikely - at the moment to get non-Razer Windows machines working, it needs core port drivers that Bootcamp likely won't get for years,

 

[KPOM]

This is not a choice. other companies do the same. It's strategicaly placed in a way that will force you to buy a more expensive one even though performance wise the base is more than enough for you, but you will buy the more expensive one because ports are ****ed up one the base model on purpose. This is not new.

Have you even read the technical posts? It is not physically possible with the dual core CPUs to supply 4 Thunderbolt 3 ports with full PCIe bandwidth. There aren't enough PCIe lanes. So they did the maximum they could and supplied 2 ports with full PCIe bandwidth (capable of 40 Gbps) and 2 with reduced bandwidth (capable of 20 Gbps - fast enough for any legacy Thunderbolt 2 device).
[doublepost=1477848580][/doublepost]

Non touch bar MBP has ONLY TWO - http://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro

But since they are full Thunderbolt 3 it's easy to attach a hub and get however many ports you need.
[doublepost=1477848664][/doublepost]

So... why doesn't apple just release a USB-c to lightning cable.. problem solved.

They have.


http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MK0X2AM/A/usb-c-to-lightning-cable-1-m?fnode=8b

 

[Firelock]

Heh, the whining is almost comical at this point. Of course I'll be called a McPologist!

The negativity of the MacRumors community has almost caused me to stop reading the comments, which used to be one of my favorite things about the site. I have my fair share of beefs with Apple, but if someone finds Apple's products that abhorrent, then why not pack up and move on to a different brand?

 

[Pootmatoot]

The negativity of the MacRumors community has almost caused me to stop reading the comments, which used to be one of my favorite things about the site. I have my fair share of beefs with Apple, but if someone finds Apple's products that abhorrent, then why not pack up and move on to a different brand?

Because they're longterm Apple users, who are in deep with the Apple ecosystem, and they'd rather their main technology company didn't leap off a cliff?

Pretending everything's fine is not very helpful. It clearly isn't.

 

[turbobass]

As an owner of a MacBook Pro mid 2015, Pencil, iPad Pro, Watch 1, iPhone 7 I can say that I hope either Apple reverses course on this, or that a competitor comes and puts Apple's lackluster offering for creative professionals out of business. Obviously they don't care, time for market forces to do their work...

 

[magicschoolbus]

Apple has lost the pro market. Video editors working with 4K are rolling their eyes at this update.

Apple has lost the pro consumer.

 

[blackcrayon]

Because they're longterm Apple users, who are in deep with the Apple ecosystem, and they'd rather their main technology company didn't leap off a cliff?

Pretending everything's fine is not very helpful. It clearly isn't.

Nor is crying like the sky is falling. This post is a case in point. If this is the type of thing people blame Apple for, that 4 USB C Thunderbolt ports can't ALL have full TB 3 bandwidth due to what Intel supports on this processor, then it really ruins the credibility of the criticism. The biggest complainers don't seem to even want to understand the actual issue (in this case a non-issue).
[doublepost=1477850899][/doublepost]

Apple has lost the pro market. Video editors working with 4K are rolling their eyes at this update.

Apple has lost the pro consumer.

Video editors working with 4K are probably looking for desktops. In any case. "video editors working with 4K" doesn't encompass the entire market of professional computer users.

 

[MyopicPaideia]

I can't answer as you're not quoting me.

I'll ask you a question though. What would Steve Jobs do if he was alive and saw that:

• two out of four ports are slower
• iPhone 7 cannot be plugged to new rMBPs out of the box
• notebooks with audio jacks, phones with lightning
• removed microfiber cloth and cable extension
• one hundred versions of notebooks, 4-5 versions of iPads and 3 versions of iPhones

He would throw one huge tantrum. He strived to make everything interoperable and simple. All Apple products aren't simple anymore. All product lines are mixed and convoluted. Some iPads have some features and others don't but there isn't one that has all the features.

You're definitely not wrong!

I hate the "what would Jobs have done" lines, but I think it is actually relevent here. Seriously. A man of Jobs vision and strength of will would have done something like this:

• Put in the higher spec CPU to give the 13" model the ability to have all four ports full speed. He would have made it part of his presentation as well, about the PCI lanes and how they were able to engineer 4 full speed lanes despite the challenges involved. He wouldn't have mentioned though that they were throttling the CPU in the 13" to a lower TDP due to heating issues in the smaller chassis as opposed to the 15" model...or...
• Would have put a Lightning connector instead of the 4th TB3 slot on the right side, allowing for 3 full speed TB3 lines on the 13" and replace the 3.5mm with Lightining on the 15" model, giving the 13" and 15" more differentiation.
• Microfiber and cable extension would NEVER have been omitted.
• There would be an 7.9" iPad mini, an 9.7" iPad, and an 12.9" iPad Plus
• There would be an iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus with the 6s staying on as the budget phone, no 6s Plus being sold
• There would be a 12" and 14" MBr and a 14" and 16" MBPr, and a 13" cMB in the MBA chassis as the legacy low price model (MBA moniker would be retired)

 

[barbu]

Apple has lost the pro market. Video editors working with 4K are rolling their eyes at this update.

Apple has lost the pro consumer.

Not sure what's sillier, your post or your sig... anyway, 36 pages in to this mess and we have seen lots of posters claiming they know better than Apple. Does no one consider that Apple does massive amounts of research on how people actually use their machines? Isn't it just possible that they analyzed the bell curves and usage patterns of their target market and optimized based on those findings? Is it not reasonable to assume that they did not find such a substantial number of users (pro or otherwise) who needed such an excess of bandwidth as to justify building in the expanded capabilities (assuming that was even possible with Intel's tech) at the expense of increased cost (a cost that is already under fire here)?