Thunderbolt 3 Ports on Right Side of 13-Inch MacBook Pro Have Reduced PCI Express Bandwidth

[KPOM]

I hate the "what would Jobs have done" lines, but I think it is actually relevent here. Seriously. A man of Jobs vision and strength of will would have done something like this:

• Put in the higher spec CPU to give the 13" model the ability to have all four ports full speed. He would have made it part of his presentation as well, about the PCI lanes and how they were able to engineer 4 full speed lanes despite the challenges involved. He wouldn't have mentioned though that they were throttling the CPU in the 13" to a lower TDP due to heating issues in the smaller chassis as opposed to the 15" model...or...

Why don't we consider what Steve Jobs actually did? In 2010 he released a MacBook Pro with a Core 2 Duo processor, Thunderbolt, but only USB 2.0 while the rest of the market was releasing notebooks with Core i5/i7 processors and USB 3.0.

And if Apple actually did what you suggest by cramming a quad-core CPU and throttling it just so that they can provide full TB3 bandwidth to all 4 ports we'd have a thread with 1000 posts complaining that Apple has "lost it" because they are crippling CPUs.

The fact is that the "gimped" Thunderbolt 3 ports on the right still provide Thunderbolt 2 speeds and the charging benefits of Thunderbolt 3. Very few devices out there even support full Thunderbolt 3 speeds. Not many people are connecting RAID servers or external GPUs to a 13" notebook, and if they do, they can plug it in on the left side for maximum performance.

 

[manu chao]

Anyone reading this thread understands to technical reasons.

The irritation isn't about that, it's that Apple chose to put in 2 semi ports for aesthetic reasons while stripping out the ports people use every day.

Apple put in the two (right-side) 20 Gbit/s TB3/USB-C ports there instead of two USB-A ports because they offer (in no particular order):

1. Laptop charging
2. External device powering with up to 100 W
3. Twice the speed of USB 3.1 gen 2 aka 20 Gbit/s instead 10 Gbit/s with USB-only
4. Native DP (ie, you can have a USB-C to USB-C cable connecting your computer with a monitor)
5. Native HDMI
6. External PCIe (aka TB)
7. Affordable USB docks offering native DP & HDMI (ie, no USB video) as well as other protocols
8. Daisy-chaining (with TB)
9. Reversible plug design

If somebody is obsessed with symmetry here, it is you calling ports that miss one aspect out of a list of about 10 features, 'semi ports'.

You are miffed because you have to buy a couple of new cables (eg, a USB-C to Lightning cable) and dongles. But there is no way to get to a future where everything is either USB-C or TB3 without you buying these cables at some point. Maybe you'll get them for free if, eg, the iPhone 8 ships with USB-C to Lightning cables, but that is the price to live on the cutting edge. We have been through this many times before: serial/SCSI to USB, FW400 to FW800, FW800 to TB, 30-pin to Lightning, VGA to DVI to mDP. And not just on the computer side, USB had many iterations in plug design on the peripheral end from USB-B, USB mini, USB micro, USB-3, USB-propriatary (eg, Sony, Panasonic), to USB-C. I personally own six different USB cables (nine if you want to count the ones ending in 30-pin, Lightning or custom charging part for my Fitbit).

 

[Macist]

This is the worst major Apple release ever. Everything about it is suck.

Imagine your friend comes round with some photos on a USB drive:

'Oh, hang on, I did buy a dongle... hell... where did I put it... wait there...'
'I have the SD straight from the camera too!'
'Er... yeah... there's a reader somewhere... think it's on my other computer...'
'Wow that little bar thing lights up!'
'It's good for emojis...'
'And is the screen pressure sensitive? Y'know, for editing photos and stuff...'
'Well, the touch bar's not really big enough for photo editing...'
'Oh, I meant the main screen...'
'That's not a touch screen...'
'Wow... but it looks super light, though. Shame you have that jumble of dongles to deal with... '

 

[jayducharme]

Why do you think that way? Will you even utilize TB3 speeds on all 4 ports on a 13" that doesn't even have a dedicated gpu.

Actually, yes. There's a reason it's supposed to be a MacBook PRO. I do a lot of video editing, and that bandwidth would be very useful to me. Sure, I could just get the maxed-out top-of-the-line version, but then THAT'S the only one that should be listed as a "Pro" machine.

 

[Pootmatoot]

Apple put in the two (right-side) 20 Gbit/s TB3/USB-C ports in there instead of two USB-A ports because the offer (in no particular order):

1. Laptop charging
2. External device powering with up to 100 W
3. Twice the speed of USB 3.1 gen 2 aka 20 Gbit/s instead 10 Gbit/s with USB-only
4. Native DP (ie, you can have a USB-C to USB-C cable connecting your computer with a monitor)
5. Native HDMI
6. External PCIe (aka TB)
7. Affordable USB docks
8. Daisy-chaining (with TB)
9. Reversible plug design

If somebody is obsessed with symmetry here it is you calling ports that miss one aspect out of a list of about 10 features, 'semi ports'.

You are miffed because you have to buy a couple of new cables (eg, a USB-C to Lightning cable) and dongles. But there is no way to get to a future where everything is either USB-C or TB3 without you buying these cables at some point. Maybe you'll get them for free if the iPhone 8 ships with USB-C to Lightning cables, but that is the price to live on the cutting edge. We have been through this many times before: serial/SCSI to USB, FW400 to FW800, FW800 to TB, 30-pin to Lightning, VGA to DVI to mDP. And not just on the computer side, USB had many iterations in plug design on the peripheral end from USB-B, USB mini, USB micro, USB-3, USB-propriatary (eg, Sony, Panasonic), to USB-C. I personally own six different USB cables (nine if you want to count the ones ending in 30-pin, Lightning or custom charging part for my Fitbit).

No, I'm annoyed because Apple has a history of doing this sort of thing well. They're currently - on a whole host of fronts - making worse choices than all the other major players. This is even worse because they're on such a long (for the industry) update cycle. Everyone else (especially Microsoft, Dell, HP, Samsung) are not only leaping forward in each iteration, but iterating every 9-12 months. Apple is lurching, making unconsidered decisions, and making them slowly.

The 2000s Apple where everything "just worked" has become a dongle octopus to get basic functionality.

 

[Sedulous]

Not sure what's sillier, your post or your sig... anyway, 36 pages in to this mess and we have seen lots of posters claiming they know better than Apple. Does no one consider that Apple does massive amounts of research on how people actually use their machines? Isn't it just possible that they analyzed the bell curves and usage patterns of their target market and optimized based on those findings? Is it not reasonable to assume that they did not find such a substantial number of users (pro or otherwise) who needed such an excess of bandwidth as to justify building in the expanded capabilities (assuming that was even possible with Intel's tech) at the expense of increased cost (a cost that is already under fire here)?

You are probably right BUT A lot of Ferrari owners usually drive nowhere near top speed but Ferrari still doesn't compromise on performance.

 

[WRChris]

Sure, I could just get the maxed-out top-of-the-line version, but then THAT'S the only one that should be listed as a "Pro" machine.

You know as well as anyone else that pro doesn't necessarily mean "professional grade". It just as likely means prosumer. And by that I mean it is marketed towards people who think they need "pro" gear when they really only need a netbook. As you said though the top of the line model is what professionals would be most likely to use.

I'm not defending the poor executive decisions at Apple HQ

 

[Mac 128]

No, I'm annoyed because Apple has a history of doing this sort of thing well. They're currently - on a whole host of fronts - making worse choices than all the other major players. This is even worse because they're on such a long (for the industry) update cycle. Everyone else (especially Microsoft, Dell, HP, Samsung) are not only leaping forward in each iteration, but iterating every 9-12 months. Apple is lurching, making unconsidered decisions, and making them slowly.

The 2000s Apple where everything "just worked" has become a dongle octopus to get basic functionality.

It had a dongle octopus in 2000 just to get things done in my PowerBook G3 FireWire. It was the worst laptop I had owned until it wasn't, when the world caught up and it became the best I ever had.

 

[LimerickRunner]

As an owner of a MacBook Pro mid 2015, Pencil, iPad Pro, Watch 1, iPhone 7 I can say that I hope either Apple reverses course on this, or that a competitor comes and puts Apple's lackluster offering for creative professionals out of business. Obviously they don't care, time for market forces to do their work...

Have you used surface? I have both surface and macs and the Apple products are much better in many ways, People also need to realise that Apple is a much bigger company now than even the highest point of success in Steves time, it's not like they are no longer doing macs, the notebook is the biggest selling mac, the iMac and Mac Pro will get updates spring 2017. This is usually how Apple rolls out products.

 

[Mac 128]

This is the worst major Apple release ever. Everything about it is suck.

Imagine your friend comes round with some photos on a USB drive:

'Oh, hang on, I did buy a dongle... hell... where did I put it... wait there...'
'I have the SD straight from the camera too!'
'Er... yeah... there's a reader somewhere... think it's on my other computer...'
'Wow that little bar thing lights up!'
'It's good for emojis...'
'And is the screen pressure sensitive? Y'know, for editing photos and stuff...'
'Well, the touch bar's not really big enough for photo editing...'
'Oh, I meant the main screen...'
'That's not a touch screen...'
'Wow... but it looks super light, though. Shame you have that jumble of dongles to deal with... '

Substitute floppy disk for USB drive and it's 1998 all over again. And look how that turned out for Apple and the industry.

 

[HighDesert50]

Apple surely did a fair amount of user applicable research with regard to design, but I also believe they maintain an elitist attitude that presumes that their Mac OS following will abide and bend to their design decisions and associated costs. After consideration of my needs, I decided I am not going to be bullied into buying a system that does not meet my needs. I accept that I no longer meet the profile Apple has focused its current design. As I am not wedded to a particular OS, I have spec'd another system that has all of the connectivity I really need built in, along with one USB-C port, and costs considerably less than the base MBP. No pissin' and moaning, just movin' on and embracing the challenge of change.

 

[smoledman]

Apple surely did a fair amount of user applicable research with regard to design, but I also believe they maintain an elitist attitude that presumes that their Mac OS following will abide and bend to their design decisions and associated costs. After consideration of my needs, I decided I am not going to be bullied into buying a system that does not meet my needs. I accept that I no longer meet the profile Apple has focused its current design. As I am not wedded to a particular OS, I have spec'd another system that has all of the connectivity I really need built in, along with one USB-C port, and costs considerably less than the base MBP. No pissin' and moaning, just movin' on and embracing the challenge of change.

Goin' to Linux?

 

[544263]

Goin' to Linux?

i've had the same feelings last year. try elementary OS, it's nice.

 

[barbu]

I decided I am not going to be bullied into buying a system that does not meet my needs.

What does this even mean? Explain how mean old Tim Cook somehow forced you into doing anything? Who is "bullying" you? I swear to god, how is it that people have lost all perspective because of a freaking laptop?

 

[tjleonard]

And they have the right to say that. I'm actually one of them - I won't be buying a new MacBook any time soon. I can't bring myself to support Apple's new fashion-conscious nickle-and-dime donglefest mentality anymore. I just about accepted it for the iPhone 7, but to do it on a laptop is greedy. To do it on a "pro"-named laptop is downright hilarious.

I don't think what I'm saying translates well into the post.

Whiners and critics are two different things. If you don't want to buy one, don't. It's your hard earned money. You admitting you're not into dongles is just that, you want one thing from a laptop and this one was aimed at others. The thing is, Apple is and has always been out to make money...if they deem it as a good business move, it would be a different laptop.

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

Of course because Apple saves $5 per unit this way. Apple doesn't care about its customers anymore. The latest crop of products makes that clear.

 

[BeatCrazy]

You are probably right BUT A lot of Ferrari owners usually drive nowhere near top speed but Ferrari still doesn't compromise on performance.

A MacBook Pro is not a Ferrari equivalent. You buy it at Best Buy for chrissakes.

 

[manu chao]

I wish they would have just slapped a retina display on the Mac Book Air and that would have created the perfect laptop !!!

Magsafe, SD card port, 2 x USB 3, Thunderbolt port, Apple logo lit, 12hrs battery and a nice soft keyboard !!!!!!

The 13" MBA has a 54‑Wh battery, a 13" non-retina display and 15-W TDP CPU and is rated at 12h.
The 13" MBP without the Touch Bar has a 54.5-Wh battery, a 13" retina display and a 15-W TDP CPU and is rated at 10h*. It also weighs the same and is smaller in footprint and volume. The 13" MBP w/o Touch Bar is size-, weight-, and CPU-performance-wise for all practical purposes a retina 13" MBA. It got classed up by matching the 13" MBP in display quality (the non-retina 13" MBP always had a better screen than the 13" MBA) as well as getting the same I/O speed as the Pro in the same year (the Air got TB2 two years after the Pro and USB 3 a year later than the Pro). The only thing where it deviates significantly is price. ADDENDUM: Interestingly, the first 13" retina MBP also $500 more than non-retina 13" MBP released in the same year. Though that $500 bought you a retina screen as well as an SSD.

Wishes for new Macs often fall into two camps:

1. Keep everything the same, except for newer processors, better screens and maybe update the I/O as long as it doesn't change the ports (aka faster horses).
2. Update the industrial design ('It's long overdue', 'Where's the innovation') and get me the latest I/O (here USB-C and TB3 and thus enable single-cable 5K external displays).

Obviously, Apple cannot fulfil the wishes of both camps simultaneously (unless new industrial designs are added as a new separate Mac line). And if only wish (1) were followed we'd still have computers as thick as the white plastic Macbook (or the pre-retina MBP) and we'd still have FW, DVI, and Ethernet ports as well as optical drives and no TB, mDP, or USB-C.

I'd think the only real honest bone of contention is Apple removing old ports when it introduces new ones. But that is something Apple has done forever (at least starting with the second Jobs era and the iMac) and it doesn't seem to have slowed down Mac sales in any significant manner. Yes, after the release of new hardware everybody and their uncle is up in arms about it, but a year later it is mostly forgotten.

*Though there are good reasons to believe it has probably an 11 to 12 h battery life, given that the 13" MBP with Touch Bar has a 29-W TDP CPU, the T1 processor, the Touch Bar and a 49.2-Wh battery and is rated at 10 h, ie, the non-Touch-Bar version has an 11% larger battery plus a lower-power CPU plus no T1 and no Touch Bar.

 

[Val-kyrie]

When you buy a hard drive, do you upgrade to a premium cable just in case?
[doublepost=1477827872][/doublepost]

I only purchase from reputable or certified vendors. You are making light of a real issue. Benson Leung is a Google engineer whose laptop was severely damaged by a poorly constructed USB-C cable. Following the incident, he began to review cables and adapters so others would know which brands were safe to use. He is now taking an extended break from reviewing because bad cables and adapters destroyed two more laptops. So which cables are safe to buy? Hint, hint: it's not the cheap Chinese off-brand cables!

 

[dantroline]

I don't need any ports. Give me portless macbook!

Let's go full minimalist. I want an aluminium slab that is 1mm thick that fits perfectly in my briefcase, with no ports, no screen or keys. Beat that Apple!

 

[manu chao]

No, I'm annoyed because Apple has a history of doing this sort of thing well. They're currently - on a whole host of fronts - making worse choices than all the other major players. This is even worse because they're on such a long (for the industry) update cycle. Everyone else (especially Microsoft, Dell, HP, Samsung) are not only leaping forward in each iteration, but iterating every 9-12 months. Apple is lurching, making unconsidered decisions, and making them slowly.

The 2000s Apple where everything "just worked" has become a dongle octopus to get basic functionality.

During the 2000s Apple cycled through nine different monitor ports on their laptops (composite video, S-Video, VGA, mini-VGA, DVI, dual-link DVI, mini-DVI, micro-DVI, mDP). That didn't require any dongles at all. /s

 

[512ke]

Apple has lost the pro market. Video editors working with 4K are rolling their eyes at this update.

Apple has lost the pro consumer.

Apple used to market to creative professionals. That's not their bread and butter any more. These days Apple is a high end luxury electronics company. They figured out that was a much bigger market than video editors and musicians etc. They still provide offerings for pros but I would argue Apple is much more a high end consumer company now.

It's like Lexus. Some of their cars are fast but they don't market to race car drivers.

Maybe I'm dead wrong but that at least is my personal impression.

 

[bbbb4b]

No, I'm annoyed because Apple has a history of doing this sort of thing well. They're currently - on a whole host of fronts - making worse choices than all the other major players. This is even worse because they're on such a long (for the industry) update cycle. Everyone else (especially Microsoft, Dell, HP, Samsung) are not only leaping forward in each iteration, but iterating every 9-12 months. Apple is lurching, making unconsidered decisions, and making them slowly.

The 2000s Apple where everything "just worked" has become a dongle octopus to get basic functionality.

Please tell me how a dongle octopus is worse than a cable octopus?
If you're a pro (you're not) then step up and get a dock like the rest of us pros.

 

[dantroline]

Apple used to market to creative professionals. That's not their bread and butter any more. These days Apple is a high end luxury electronics company. They figured out that was a much bigger market than video editors and musicians etc. They still provide offerings for pros but I would argue Apple is much more a high end consumer company now.

It's like Lexus. Some of their cars are fast but they don't market to race car drivers.

Maybe I'm dead wrong but that at least is my personal impression.

We need something like the Amiga, that plays to creativity and innovation, and gives power to the consumer. Until very recently Apple has been the closest thing to that, what a shame Commodore went under.

 

[jeremy h]

Because they're longterm Apple users, who are in deep with the Apple ecosystem, and they'd rather their main technology company didn't leap off a cliff?

Pretending everything's fine is not very helpful. It clearly isn't.

Good point. I'm one of these long term users. Used my first Apple computer professionally in 1989 - however this launch is one of the most depressing things I've seen from them.

The problem is that they now seem intent of making us all work in a certain way - modifying our function to suit their design. In the past that was the mistake that Microsoft made - it was never the Apple way.

They say if you only have a hammer then every problem resembles a nail, Johnny Ive's hammer seems to be a obsession with visual aesthetics rather than function. Apple always considered aesthetics as part of the function but increasingly it is becoming the function in its entirety! Its not just the design of this 'pro' computer there's been lots of other little things - the removal of the ability to open new windows by changing a default, the way that labelling now works etc etc.

I'm getting really fed up with it but I can't just switch, I have thousands upon thousands of legacy files and type 1 fonts and with my clients I'm sat right in the middle of a Mac work flow. I'm not asking for much, just a beefy (32GB ram etc) laptop with some 'legacy' (or current 2016) ports and also offer a decent workstation with the latest gubbins in and space for a few hard drives - not some souped up black mac mini (which I have on my desk) with a ton of dongles and spaghetti and odd hard drives hanging off it. I'll pay top dollar in fact, I'll happily pay over the odds. You've got the wealth of a small country for goodness sake - throw us (who kept you going all through the 90s) a small bone. Just think of it as good PR. Stick its development costs in the PR and advertising budget. In fact your PR budget probably would probably dwarf its development costs.

Oh well, I suppose i'd better go off and have a another look at the Surface Studio video again...