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Well, I'll admit it, I bashed this thing six ways to Sunday but ended up ordering one just the same. Not because I like it, or at least not yet, but because I need it. In less than a year with the 12-inch MacBook, I'm plagued with stuck keys and poor performance. I'm taking a huge gamble with this new 15-inch fully maxed out, may at least be usable for a couple of years.


Have you tried one properly in-store? The keyboards are being reported as pretty damn similar to the Macbook butterfly monstrosity...
 
Well, I'll admit it, I bashed this thing six ways to Sunday but ended up ordering one just the same. Not because I like it, or at least not yet, but because I need it. In less than a year with the 12-inch MacBook, I'm plagued with stuck keys and poor performance. I'm taking a huge gamble with this new 15-inch fully maxed out, and I pray that it last at least a couple of years. If not, then I'm out here.

I've not had either issue with the MacBook in 18 months. What model did you have? If you are coming from a Core m are you sure the 13" wouldn't be sufficient? No need to worry about throttling.
 
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People are already complaining that Apple's lineup is getting cluttered and you want them to make even more designs?

They're cluttered with machines that are too similar. More differentiation would make more types of customers happy in a smaller number of total models. Like a single consumer laptop, a pro-laptop, and a subcompact, and more BTO options on each.

RJ45? Wireless rules in the workplace today.
Yeah, okay. :rolleyes:

Tell us how those bean bag chairs are. too.

Macs have never been about gaming. They are losing ground in education and creative shops, but they are not about to start making $200 Chromebook clones.

Not sure why they would make Chromebook clones to help this situation. Losing ground in education is not entirely unrelated to gaming. When you need a new laptop for school, and you can only buy one, I'd buy the one I can use for studying and games. Not to mention Apple price difference.

There is no requirement that Apple supply products that meet all market segments.

It is if they want their platform market share to grow, but insist on not licensing their OS to other companies. Otherwise you're leaving money on the table and that's how you get labeled a "niche" computing platform.

Well, I'll admit it, I bashed this thing six ways to Sunday but ended up ordering one just the same. Not because I like it, or at least not yet, but because I need it. In less than a year with the 12-inch MacBook, I'm plagued with stuck keys and poor performance. I'm taking a huge gamble with this new 15-inch fully maxed out, may at least be usable for a couple of years.

So you're having trouble with your previous Mac purchase and your solution is to buy an even more expensive model to replace it? Yeah, that will show them!
 
I've not had either issue with the MacBook in 18 months. What model did you have? If you are coming from a Core m are you sure the 13" wouldn't be sufficient? No need to worry about throttling.

I have the 1st gen maxed out 1,3 Ghz, 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 MacBook 12-inch. Granted, I use AI software which is very demanding on the processor and 8gb of RAM is useless, but the stuck keys in my view is a latent defect. I already took it to an Apple Store, and they took it apart and cleaned it and I was told to keep a can of compressed air nearby. After two months with compressed air, that didn't help. Being more than 200 miles from an Apple Store makes it pretty hard. I already placed my order for the 15-inch with every single upgrade today. I won't bother typing them all out. Of course, I still have to buy the dongle's, and definitely buy AppleCare. I'm not sure which of the two new features bothered me the most during the presentation. The DJ playing scratch sounds on the touch bar or the chief of software engineering bragging about the new emoji's. I was so embarrassed I had to walk away from my AppleTV.
 
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They're cluttered with machines that are too similar. More differentiation would make more types of customers happy in a smaller number of total models. Like a single consumer laptop, a pro-laptop, and a subcompact, and more BTO options on each.


Yeah, okay. :rolleyes:

Tell us how those bean bag chairs are. too.



Not sure why they would make Chromebook clones to help this situation. Losing ground in education is not entirely unrelated to gaming. When you need a new laptop for school, and you can only buy one, I'd buy the one I can use for studying and games. Not to mention Apple price difference.

Because we all know schools care about gaming performance. School districts with tight budgets are attracted to the low cost of the Chromebook. If you are talking college students, a 12" MacBook has enough power for most business and liberal arts majors.

I work in professional services. We get standard issue HP notebooks (15W dual core processors), usually replaced on a 3 year cycle. Technically we can still connect to Ethernet but all our offices are equipped with secure wi-fi and Ethernet cables are gradually disappearing. That's increasingly common at my clients, as well, unless they are using desktops.
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I have the 1st gen maxed out 1,3 Ghz, 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 MacBook 12-inch. Granted, I use AI software which is very demanding on the processor and 8gb of RAM is useless, but the stuck keys in my view is a latent defect. I already took it to an Apple Store, and they took it apart and cleaned it and I was told to keep a can of compressed air nearby. After two months with compressed air, that didn't help. Being more than 200 miles from an Apple Store makes it pretty hard. I already placed my order for the 15-inch with every single upgrade today. I won't bother typing them all out. Of course, I still have to buy the dongle's, and definitely buy AppleCare. I'm not sure which of the two new features bothered me the most during the presentation. The DJ playing scratch sounds on the touch bar or the chief of software engineering bragging about the new emoji's. I was so embarrassed I had to walk away from my AppleTV.

Don't you already have some of the adapters since you've been using the MacBook? I haven't notice the keyboard issues but don't doubt that they can occur. Supposedly the MacBook Pros have an improved version. In any case, once you get your new MacBook Pro I'd demand that Apple fix the MacBook under warranty. If nothing more it would help resale should you decide to keep the MacBook Pro.
 
Because we all know schools care about gaming performance. School districts with tight budgets are attracted to the low cost of the Chromebook. If you are talking college students, a 12" MacBook has enough power for most business and liberal arts majors.

I work in professional services. We get standard issue HP notebooks (15W dual core processors), usually replaced on a 3 year cycle. Technically we can still connect to Ethernet but all our offices are equipped with secure wi-fi and Ethernet cables are gradually disappearing. That's increasingly common at my clients, as well, unless they are using desktops.
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Don't you already have some of the adapters since you've been using the MacBook? I haven't notice the keyboard issues but don't doubt that they can occur. Supposedly the MacBook Pros have an improved version. In any case, once you get your new MacBook Pro I'd demand that Apple fix the MacBook under warranty. If nothing more it would help resale should you decide to keep the MacBook Pro.

Yes, I do have adapters and the OWC very cool USB-C hub. Also, yes on having a new keyboard installed after I receive the new rig. Once that's finished, I will re-gift this repaired MacBook to my GF in Italy, so I'll be buying adapter/device all over again.
 
I just went to Dell and here's the link:
http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/x...c=cax15w10ph1636m&model_id=xps-15-9550-laptop

Are you sure we're writing about the same model?

Here's the New Egg link:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA6R43DA2008&cm_re=XPS_15-_-34-300-749-_-Product

I am more than willing to say I'm wrong, but I think we're looking at two different machines.

Lmao at those NewEgg reviews

Review 1:

Pros: Very fast, when it runs

Cons: Extremely unstable. Poor support

Review 2:

Pros: I got the laptop for $500

Cons: First product came with a faulty track pad. Shipped in for repair and it came back worse than when shipped. Then fought for a new replacement. Finally received a replacement to find new issues. The OS was improperly installed (Dell provided a backup USB for me to fresh install). The trackpad is substandard- pressure on the back of the case can cause the mouse to click- or stick when clicked. It is better on my second laptop, but still is the worst I've had on a laptop, $200 netbooks included.

Worse are two issues that cannot be fixed- the NVIDIA GPU is worthless. When running games, the computer, after time defaults back to the intel processor. This even after extensive troubleshooting. My guess is that the cooling is not sufficient to run the GPU at capacity. Battlefield runs at about 80 fps for about 10 minutes, then drops to 10 when the hardware switches. When on the GPU, the card runs at about 70C mostly idle, which indicates a cooling problem.

Also, there is a distinct, high-pitch coil whine that is enough to drive you mad. Dell has known about the issue in the XPS series laptops since at least 2012 (by my research). They have not fixed it.

Other Thoughts: Go elsewhere for a high-end laptop. I'll never buy DELL again after my experience.

Review 3:

Cons: The Intel video driver stops responding sometime, and the PC locks up; however it recovers fairly quickly, and you carry on your business. Also, I may have a lemon, but my audio port stopped producing audio from the left channel; the right one still works fine. Dell is currently working on fixing it, and they have great customer service. It would also be nice to have separate microphone/headphone plugs.

Other Thoughts: Overall this is a solid machine, and is pretty reliable. It has its issues, which you wouldn't expect from something so expensive. I would recommend it, just make sure you have a warranty.
-------------------------------------

HA HA HA!!! Yes, this is precisely what I expect from Dell and the other OEMs. I'm having to use a PC from an OEM whose name I shall not disclose since I am contracting for them but at least 3 times a day "<name of graphics driver> has stopped working". Absolute crap. Throwing good money after bad.
 
I just went to Dell and here's the link:
http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/x...c=cax15w10ph1636m&model_id=xps-15-9550-laptop

Are you sure we're writing about the same model?

Here's the New Egg link:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA6R43DA2008&cm_re=XPS_15-_-34-300-749-_-Product

I am more than willing to say I'm wrong, but I think we're looking at two different machines.


Ahh, that's where the confusion is. That NewEgg model is Windows 8 and at least 2-3 years old, and isn't the same box of frogs at all - completely different architecture and chassis, shares only the name - that price is someone trying to pull a con job.

When you hear people gush about the XPS and all the best-in-class reviews, it's always the Infinity Display model (13 and 15) with 2mm bezels, that first launched about a year ago (13 just refreshed, 15 refreshing January).
 
The iMac was a big success for Apple, but Apple's market share of the PC market is noticeably higher today. At its peak, during the first full year of iMac availability in 1999, the ratio between PCs and Macs was as low as 27.6x, ie, for every Mac sold, 27.6 PCs were sold. That number increased to 33x already the next year and kept on rising every year to over 56x in 2004.

In 2015, that number was 13.8x. This means Apple's market share is twice as high as at its peak during original iMac era and even 2.4x as high as during the second full year of the iMac and 2.8x as high as during the third year of the original iMac. And if you think the iMac dominated Mac sales more back then than Mac laptops do today, think again. In laptops, the PC to Mac sales number ratio is as low as 8.7x. And we all know that all Macs will get USB-C sooner or later, this has happened with the original USB, it happened with Firewire, it happened with DVI, mDP and TB.

Except the 13.8× number you're quoting includes Macs that don't have USB-C and people replace their computers at a much slower rate now than during the iMac G3 era. You're only concerned with market share but neglects replacement rate. Remember sales numbers is more a reflection of the latter. So the rest of the above argument doesn't stand. Nice try though.

And that is before taking into account that USB-C, until last week, actually had a noticeably higher share on PC laptops than on Mac laptops.

This is neither here nor there. What does USB-C having a higher share on PC laptops than on Mac laptops have to do with anything? No PC laptop on the market today has only USB-C ports. PC people are not forced to use only USB-C or to buy dongles. It's just an added feature that they can take advantage of without their workflow or computer setup being disrupted. Higher share only matters if all the PCs you're including have only USB-C ports.

Don't kid yourself. Most people probably own more than half a dozen different USB cables (my count is six: USB-B, USB-mini, USB-micro, USB-3, USB-Sony, USB-Panasonic). Adding one more variant (USB-C to USB-C) won't break the bank.

You really should learn to read what other people wrote in its entirety before you go off with your obloquy. I said afterwards that it's about "Apple takes away something most users rely on and find extremely useful without offering something better or even a compelling roadmap in return," rather than having to pay for dongles. I even put it in bold.

b) switching the iPhone to USB-C now after only four years of Lightning would also be seen as Apple 'forcing' everybody to buy new cables or adaptors.
Exactly, the iPhone and iPad, as you so eloquently put it, aren't ready. Not at all, in fact. So why not wait for another year before going all USB-C? You can talk all day but the arguments supporting going all USB-C this year are at best tenuous and those against adding at least one TB2 and one USB3 port even more so. It's kind of ridiculous to think that the benefits of USB-C can't be enjoyed were "legacy" ports not gotten rid of. If there are so many USB-C devices out there already, what's with the insecurity complex that we need to haten the transition by eliminating all "legacy" ports? Apple can wait and should wait but they choose not to. This is on top of making the 15" arguably the most expensive MacBook Pro ever.

That is how Apple has always operated and despite the huffing and puffing (and bold text) in the days after a new product is released, things calm down pretty quickly and this becomes largely a non-issue (replier's own bold) or simply the cost of doing business.

So you're essentially confirming what others here have been saying all along, that Apple knows it has a stranglehold on its users and that the cost of leaving its ecosystem is too high that so long as they make sure the benefits of staying slightly outweigh the costs of leaving, they can milk their quasi-monopoly for eternity.

I don't know in which world you are living but USB-C is being widely adopted in PCs as well (in particular laptops), as well as in smartphones. My friendly neighbourhood online retailer lists 650 PC laptops with USB-A 3.x and 200 with USB-C 3.x. I think you should reconsider the use of the word 'solely' here.

I refer you to the previous point about no PC laptop on the market today has exclusively USB-C ports. People are not arguing against USB-C connector, but, unfortunately, which is the point you and some others are arguing against. Rather, people are arguing that the transition to all USB-C is too abrupt, so abrupt that Apple themselves aren't even ready.
 
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Until there are more computers out there with only USB-C ports inertia will hold back progress, just as it kept VGA around on life support until recently. Apple made a good start. HP has the Spectre. I'd like to see Dell and others do the same.
 
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I find this hardware update underwhelming but they are still solid machines. But don't get me started on the dongle fiasco... Big issue with them pretty much abandoning the Mac Pro, and giving little love to the iMac.... Don't really know why? Even their AirPorts and other "accessories" are lagging.

I love macOS but in reality the recent updates have been little more than “here’s more phone features!

My fear is they are so insulated from what the user really wants (which is what happens when you become the worlds biggest company) they will stop innovating and others (Google/Microsoft) will pass them by.

My fear exactly. Apple got a headstart with AirPlay, Siri, Apple TV and iPhone but is now out-innovated by Google with Chromecast, their own AI and Pixel and by Amazon with Alexa and FireTV. Even Microsoft is edging ever closer to them in terms of industrial design and user interface with the Surface series.
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Based on specs the vaunted Surface Studio has a Skylake chip, weak GPU, and doesn't offer a single Thunderbolt or even USB 3.1 Gen 2 port. It also doesn't have a wide gamut display.

It's no worse in a few areas than what Apple currently has in their desktop lineup and much better in many others and offers a whole new way of interacting with your computer. We don't even know if Apple will introduce a new iMac this year or even if they do, just spec upgrade or a whole new design.
 
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So i only have to buy US$50-70 adaptors for all my $30 TB2, Ethernet and DisplayPort to HDMI leads. And guess what, i don't care how thin it is, I just want it to not overheat on a live gig so make an actual Pro machine Apple with user replaceable SSD so you can't rort us on the 1TG SDD we all need and would rather it isn't external forcing a constant shuffling of files between home folder and ext drive folders.
 
Until there are more computers out there with only USB-C ports inertia will hold back progress, just as it kept VGA around on life support until recently. Apple made a good start. HP has the Spectre. I'd like to see Dell and others do the same.
It'll take another decade before VGA disappears from most lecture halls, conference rooms and computer labs. The way the economy is going, people are not going to replace old standards that work just as well with great enthusiasm.
 
How many actually need that bandwidth on even ONE port much less 3 to 4? And are actually in the market for the 13" Pro right now? How many were truly planning to get the 13" and hook up 4 TB3 devices that need that bandwidth? How many pay zero attention to far more significant positives, from screen quality to giant trackpad?
13" or 15" really doesn't meter. Majority is using external display anyway, it's all about "on the move" ratio 2inch vs extra weight. So effectively 13" shouldn't be less Pro. When you buy MacBook Pro you expect it to be in Pro class, if it doesn't deliver then it's either false marketing or simply "piece of sh*t"
 
Um. I love my 12"MB keyboard. Way better than the squishy keyboard on my 2013 rMBP IMO.

Well everyone has their own tastes... but I'd say you were a outlier, even on somewhere like 9to5Mac, and they even liked that edition of the Shuffle with no controls...
 
Actually, yes. There's a reason it's supposed to be a MacBook PRO. I do a lot of video editing, and that bandwidth would be very useful to me. Sure, I could just get the maxed-out top-of-the-line version, but then THAT'S the only one that should be listed as a "Pro" machine.

They are both Pros. Just because it doesn't live up to your requirements doesn't mean it has to lose the Pro naming.

You are still getting fast throughput. Even a RAID 10 array on the slower port won't max out the throughput.
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My new theory is that Apple wasn't ready to add Lightning to the MacBook yet, and we may first see it with the rMB update.



I can't imagine why you'd be in that situation. For starters, why would you have to connect an adapter to charge, it comes with a charger? Second why would you put your presentation in an incompatible flash drive? Third, what company where you give a presentation doesn't have a wifi network? And if for some reason they don't, there's your first adapter. And finally, USB-c is natively compatible with hdmi. So you use a USB-C to hdmi cable, not an adapter, or at worst there's your second adapter.

What if you showed up to a presentation and they had a VGA projecter? And what if the sound system only had RCA inputs? There's two adapters for your Dell right there. And what if they wanted to use your PC to run a presentation off their FireWire drive?

In the end you buy the tool you need and adapt. I would never run windows. That's for more embarrassing to me than carrying a couple of adapters.

Convienience of being able to charge through your device so you don't take up two power outlets. At work, outlets are at a premium.

My Dell has VGA and HDMI. The two most common inputs for screen projectors. Never found one that used different. And never came across one with RCAs.

As for the flash drive, sure I can post it to a file share or on my desktop. But what happens when a vendor hands me one to show me stuff? Ugh sorry I have to grab my adapter? One regular USB port would've satisfied this.

I have to run Windows. I can do it on a PC or Mac, but I still need to do my work that way.
 
It'll take another decade before VGA disappears from most lecture halls, conference rooms and computer labs. The way the economy is going, people are not going to replace old standards that work just as well with great enthusiasm.
But VGA doesn't work "just as well." And my point is that VGA should have been gone a long time ago.
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13" or 15" really doesn't meter. Majority is using external display anyway, it's all about "on the move" ratio 2inch vs extra weight. So effectively 13" shouldn't be less Pro. When you buy MacBook Pro you expect it to be in Pro class, if it doesn't deliver then it's either false marketing or simply "piece of sh*t"
Physics come into play. Anyway, for lots of professionals a 2.9GHz dual core Core i5 is more than enough power. CPU speeds aren't the bottleneck. Even those two reduced capacity ports have more bandwidth than any port on a Surface Book or Surface Studio, and as much bandwidth as any port on the previous 2015 15" MacBook Pro. It is Pro class.
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My Dell has VGA and HDMI. The two most common inputs for screen projectors. Never found one that used different. And never came across one with RCAs.

As for the flash drive, sure I can post it to a file share or on my desktop. But what happens when a vendor hands me one to show me stuff? Ugh sorry I have to grab my adapter? One regular USB port would've satisfied this.

I have to run Windows. I can do it on a PC or Mac, but I still need to do my work that way.

Apple hasn't included a VGA port for a long time. Anyway, the "convenience" of having multiple legacy ports is the reason so many Windows notebooks were big and bulky until recently. The trend even on Windows PCs is to drop ports and rely on adapters. It may take longer before most Windows PCs drop USB-A ports, but I don't recall there being lots of criticism of HP for the Spectre shipping with only USB-C and Thunderbolt 3 ports. Instead it is touted as a "real" PC instead of the "toy" that the 12" MacBook supposedly is.
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It's no worse in a few areas than what Apple currently has in their desktop lineup and much better in many others and offers a whole new way of interacting with your computer. We don't even know if Apple will introduce a new iMac this year or even if they do, just spec upgrade or a whole new design.

But the point is that this is a brand new desktop PC that Microsoft is releasing at the very end of 2016. Comparing it to a product that Apple hasn't updated in almost 2 years isn't that flattering.
 
But the point is that this is a brand new desktop PC that Microsoft is releasing at the very end of 2016. Comparing it to a product that Apple hasn't updated in almost 2 years isn't that flattering.
I think it actually says more about Apple's lack of concern for their desktop than anything else. And way to miss my point about Surface Studio being no worse in a few areas and generally better as a whole. ;)
 
Lmao at those NewEgg reviews

Review 1:

Pros: Very fast, when it runs

Cons: Extremely unstable. Poor support

Review 2:

Pros: I got the laptop for $500

Cons: First product came with a faulty track pad. Shipped in for repair and it came back worse than when shipped. Then fought for a new replacement. Finally received a replacement to find new issues. The OS was improperly installed (Dell provided a backup USB for me to fresh install). The trackpad is substandard- pressure on the back of the case can cause the mouse to click- or stick when clicked. It is better on my second laptop, but still is the worst I've had on a laptop, $200 netbooks included.

Worse are two issues that cannot be fixed- the NVIDIA GPU is worthless. When running games, the computer, after time defaults back to the intel processor. This even after extensive troubleshooting. My guess is that the cooling is not sufficient to run the GPU at capacity. Battlefield runs at about 80 fps for about 10 minutes, then drops to 10 when the hardware switches. When on the GPU, the card runs at about 70C mostly idle, which indicates a cooling problem.

Also, there is a distinct, high-pitch coil whine that is enough to drive you mad. Dell has known about the issue in the XPS series laptops since at least 2012 (by my research). They have not fixed it.

Other Thoughts: Go elsewhere for a high-end laptop. I'll never buy DELL again after my experience.

Review 3:

Cons: The Intel video driver stops responding sometime, and the PC locks up; however it recovers fairly quickly, and you carry on your business. Also, I may have a lemon, but my audio port stopped producing audio from the left channel; the right one still works fine. Dell is currently working on fixing it, and they have great customer service. It would also be nice to have separate microphone/headphone plugs.

Other Thoughts: Overall this is a solid machine, and is pretty reliable. It has its issues, which you wouldn't expect from something so expensive. I would recommend it, just make sure you have a warranty.
-------------------------------------

HA HA HA!!! Yes, this is precisely what I expect from Dell and the other OEMs. I'm having to use a PC from an OEM whose name I shall not disclose since I am contracting for them but at least 3 times a day "<name of graphics driver> has stopped working". Absolute crap. Throwing good money after bad.


That's a 3 year old Windows 8 machine that has absolutely nothing in common with the premium 2016 XPS line...

If you didn't realise that after clearly reading the page at length... I'm not sure you're that familiar with what the computer world has been upto outside the world of Apple.

I'm a dual user! It's fun! A computer isn't a spouse! You're allowed to sleep around!
 
I think it actually says more about Apple's lack of concern for their desktop than anything else. And way to miss my point about Surface Studio being no worse in a few areas and generally better as a whole. ;)
No, I think it says more about how little the basic Intel hardware has changed, as well as how little Microsoft values I/O.

The Surface Studio is designed to appeal to a niche audience and have a "halo" effect on the rest of the Surface line.
 
That's a 3 year old Windows 8 machine that has absolutely nothing in common with the premium 2016 XPS line...

If you didn't realise that after clearly reading the page at length... I'm not sure you're that familiar with what the computer world has been upto outside the world of Apple.

I'm a dual user! It's fun! A computer isn't a spouse! You're allowed to sleep around!

Ah. So XPS' were garbage 3 years ago but have undergone a miraculous transformation?

As for the "computer world outside of Apple" and being "allowed to sleep around". I'm afraid I'm having a forced dalliance with a PC now and, as the saying goes, I wouldn't do it with yours.
 
Ah. So XPS' were garbage 3 years ago but have undergone a miraculous transformation?


Errr... yes, and quite famously.

The XPS of 2013 was just another plastic mid-range laptop.

The XPS range of 2014-2016 are metal/carbon fibre, and won a slew of CES awards, and have collected more press accolades than any new tech in recent years.
 
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