Thunderbolt 3 Ports on Right Side of 13-Inch MacBook Pro Have Reduced PCI Express Bandwidth

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

It'll take another decade before VGA disappears from most lecture halls, conference rooms and computer labs.

I still carry the VGA dongle, but, I haven't had to use it for about two years or so. "Everybody" has HDMI now.

The way the economy is going, people are not going to replace old standards that work just as well with great enthusiasm.

VGA is limited in so many ways. "People" expect HD quality now. Do you still use SDTV at home?
[doublepost=1478016366][/doublepost]

Errr... yes, and quite famously.

The XPS of 2013 was just another plastic mid-range laptop.

The XPS range of 2014-2016 are metal/carbon fibre, and won a slew of CES awards, and have collected more press accolades than any new tech in recent years.

How are trackpads? The trackpads on Dell's plastic mid-range laptops were evil.

 

[Pootmatoot]

How are trackpads? The trackpads on Dell's plastic mid-range laptops were evil.

My partner has the XPS 15, and I'd place it as a pretty close clone of my MacBook Pro... slightly different texture, but just as accurate. It's certainly better than what the Mac's trackpad turns into when I use Bootcamp!

Microsoft really fought hard to standardise drivers a few years ago - although I've not touched a budget laptop in years, so i've no idea how that's worked out in the lower end (which I found unusable, bar very rare exceptions).

 

[NT1440]

My partner has the XPS 15, and I'd place it as a pretty close clone of my MacBook Pro... slightly different texture, but just as accurate. It's certainly better than what the Mac's trackpad turns into when I use Bootcamp!

Microsoft really fought hard to standardise drivers a few years ago - although I've not touched a budget laptop in years, so i've no idea how that's worked out in the lower end (which I found unusable, bar very rare exceptions).

Unfortunately the enhanced trackpad is a rare beast across most of the price points average consumers hit for their laptops.

 

[Ethosik]

If you walk into a boardroom or a lecture theatre etc with a MBP under your arm you can rest it on the lectern/table and plug the HDMI cable in and you are good to go. But with the new MBP you can't afford to forget your dongle. It's a regression.

To put it another way, if Apple is all worked up about smooth lines and nice appearances, then they can cover ports, or make them optional for the non-power user who just wants a premium product. For the very premium price it would make sense that such customisation would be allowable. However it's not about that, it's about money - increasing the profit margin on the laptop and making more money on the side for dongles. MBP's used to have a very high quality audio input jack, but that went. The new design philosophy is degrading the product and forcing users to upgrade perfectly functional accessories year after year.

I have a projector that is VGA only. I have needed to carry an adapter for a very long time.
[doublepost=1478035935][/doublepost]

I agree about the iPhone needing to embrace USB C but I've a feeling Apple is using its flagship portable to begin the process of changing over. They tested the water in 2015 with the intro of the one port does all retina MacBook and the feedback most have been positive enough for them to go all in with the MacBook Pro. It's a nuisance having to need an adapter for the old ports but the point of TB3/UsbC being the same port is to standardise it across the industry. It's just up to Apple to get their head out of their arse and change the lightning port to USB C or to ship new chargers with USB C to lightning with the iPhone 8.

No absolutely not. The number of computers with USB A far outnumber the computers with USB C. I need my phone to connect to USB A instead of USB C.

 

[FreshBoy]

I have a projector that is VGA only. I have needed to carry an adapter for a very long time.
[doublepost=1478035935][/doublepost]

No absolutely not. The number of computers with USB A far outnumber the computers with USB C. I need my phone to connect to USB A instead of USB C.

Lightning to USB A isn't going anywhere. Remain calm.

 

[Ethosik]

Lightning to USB A isn't going anywhere. Remain calm.

Yep people here want Lightning to USB C cable instead of USB A. People need to stop complaining about that. How many USB C computers are out there?
[doublepost=1478043280][/doublepost]

I agree -- I don't see an issue with the reduced bandwidth on the 13" and I understand why.



And, it still doesn't make sense to drop ports that people will need when they pull out their machine in a random conference room. Today, that means HDMI (thankfully, VGA is finally dead). HDMI done right means 2.0a with HDR. And, for many of us, RJ-45 Ethernet. Displayport. USB-A ports for memory sticks. Could I live with a portable docking station? Sure, where is it? When Apple dropped the builtin DVD drive, they came out with the portable outboard drive. This new ecosystem is missing a lot of parts.

Back at the desktop, a full up powered docking station with all the missing ports. Where is it? And, since someone brought up the Razer -- years ago there were rumors of Apple selling an outboard like the Razer Core with high-end GPU slots. Interesting idea, never happened.

VGA is not dead. I still need to connect to projectors that have VGA only. Guess what? I have needed an adapter longer than one of my laptops lasts. Windows laptops are still coming with VGA for some reason.
[doublepost=1478045326][/doublepost]

Come on. Get a grip. A "netbook" with 3Gb/s SSD I/O and 16Gb RAM and four thunderbolt ports

Yeah. A netbook that supports one to two 5K displays and a couple of 4K displays. Yeah I absolutely CANNOT get any work done on these. I do a lot of professional work on my 2013 rMBP, yet these computers are not Pro machines. /s

Seriously people, how are these not professional machines? Radeon Pro is a workstation class GPU. People wanting the GTX 10XX need to understand that. These are not gaming machines. I find it funny that people say 16GB is not enough either. I get A LOT done on my 2013 rMBP with 16GB. Yeah my desktops have 32GB of ram, that is where I do all the heavy heavy work where something needs to render for 6+ hours.

 

[manu chao]

Except the 13.8× number you're quoting includes Macs that don't have USB-C and people replace their computers at a much slower rate now than during the iMac G3 era. You're only concerned with market share but neglects replacement rate. Remember sales numbers is more a reflection of the latter. So the rest of the above argument doesn't stand. Nice try though.

No, you are as most people are wont to are seeing the past in too rosy a light. The original iMac put USB on the map, but it didn't single-handely caused the whole computer world to switch to USB. And I clearly said that all Macs will get USB-C rather sooner than later (the same way, not all Macs were updated with USB in the same year, the PowerMac got USB a year later than the iMac). Note that that same year both the iMac and the PowerMac got FW400, then a huge advance over USB 1, 400 vs 12 Mbit/s. If the iMac was so market-setting, why didn't it also started a wide-spread adoption of Firewire?

This is neither here nor there. What does USB-C having a higher share on PC laptops than on Mac laptops have to do with anything? No PC laptop on the market today has only USB-C ports.

But a significant proportion do and that means peripherals with USB-C will become available in sizeable numbers.

PC people are not forced to use only USB-C or to buy dongles.

Dongle-phobia seems to be serious condition here. Have a look at how small and cheap USB-A to USB-C dongles can be, and all for $4.5 each.

It's just an added feature that they can take advantage of without their workflow or computer setup being disrupted. Higher share only matters if all the PCs you're including have only USB-C ports.

Because on PCs, nobody buys any peripherals with new ports unless they absolutely have to?

You really should learn to read what other people wrote in its entirety before you go off with your obloquy. I said afterwards that it's about "Apple takes away something most users rely on and find extremely useful without offering something better or even a compelling roadmap in return," rather than having to pay for dongles. I even put it in bold.

If that were to shut you up, I'd buy you a couple USB-A to USB-C dongles (for $4.5 a piece). But of course it won't, because rationality has nothing to do with your reaction. You are no different then somebody running amok because somebody has taken their seat at the table and they now have to sit on a different chair.

Exactly, the iPhone and iPad, as you so eloquently put it, aren't ready.

What do you mean with not ready? You can get a Lightning to USB-C cable from Apple today.

Not at all, in fact. So why not wait for another year before going all USB-C? You can talk all day but the arguments supporting going all USB-C this year are at best tenuous and those against adding at least one TB2 and one USB3 port even more so.

Sometimes I think one of the best things Apple does is to provide us with the spectacle of people loosing it whenever they have to buy a new cable or adaptor.

So you're essentially confirming what others here have been saying all along, that Apple knows it has a stranglehold on its users and that the cost of leaving its ecosystem is too high that so long as they make sure the benefits of staying slightly outweigh the costs of leaving, they can milk their quasi-monopoly for eternity.

That is the whole point of creating an ecosystem. Glad you seem to understand that.

I refer you to the previous point about no PC laptop on the market today has exclusively USB-C ports.

And I enjoyed making fun of PC laptops with VGA ports a hundred times more, than it bothered me to carry a VGA adaptor around.

 

[gagarin]

On almost every topic that includes some tech details here I see plenty of comments and I understand that those who commenting don't actually understand a **** about computers or understand much less **** than they think they do. Yet they think their view on topic is really important for the internetz (and indeed it is thus many likes under such posts.)

Get basics people. Don't think that if you got shinny expensive computer it should have no limitations. Engineering is always work around set of limitations.

 

[Ethosik]

On almost every topic that includes some tech details here I see plenty of comments and I understand that those who commenting don't actually understand a **** about computers or understand much less **** than they think they do. Yet they think their view on topic is really important for the internetz (and indeed it is thus many likes under such posts.)

Get basics people. Don't think that if you got shinny expensive computer it should have no limitations. Engineering is always work around set of limitations.

I agree. And people saying these aren't Pro machines anymore is just rediculous. Really? I cannot do ANYTHING on them? With that logic, my 2013 rMBP is suddenly not Pro anymore? I can't do programming or final cut on these computers?

 

[turbobass]

I agree with your points, but at this point in time in my opinion there is nothing better than macOS, and if that changed I too would look, I love innovation and new things.

You're absolutely right about the OS, except that Linux keeps supporting more and more (not yet all -- and not for a long time, unfortunately, all) of the productivity software I use most regularly and, in general, the OS becomes less and less important as everything moves to cross-platform native apps and web apps. It would be a huge mistake for Apple to bank on macOS, as great as it is, to keep people like me.

 

[lysingur]

No, you are as most people are wont to are seeing the past in too rosy a light. The original iMac put USB on the map, but it didn't single-handely caused the whole computer world to switch to USB. And I clearly said that all Macs will get USB-C rather sooner than later (the same way, not all Macs were updated with USB in the same year, the PowerMac got USB a year later than the iMac). Note that that same year both the iMac and the PowerMac got FW400, then a huge advance over USB 1, 400 vs 12 Mbit/s. If the iMac was so market-setting, why didn't it also started a wide-spread adoption of Firewire?

I never said iMac single-handedly brought the computer world to USB. Way to twist my words, as you seem to be in the habit of doing. I only said MacBook Pro's sales numbers aren't as great as iMac so the chance of it nudging the computer world towards USB-C will be slim to none.

Dongle-phobia seems to be serious condition here. Have a look at how small and cheap USB-A to USB-C dongles can be, and all for $4.5 each.
View attachment 669808

As I repeatedly said in this forum, it's not about price, which you insist on bringing up for reasons that escape me. People, especially Apple users, care about aesthetically and user experience. I don't think you're going to argue with me that carrying around a dongle is aesthetically worse and an overall worse user experience?

Because on PCs, nobody buys any peripherals with new ports unless they absolutely have to?

Again, a vacuous statement that doesn't contribute anything to your argument. If you're arguing that Apple's decision to go all USB-C in this iteration of MBP is necessary, it's already been debunked in our discussion. Just to remind you:

MacBook Pro doesn't have the sales numbers nor the market share to nudge the computer world towards any connector standard. As your previous argument rests entirely on the idea that it's time to move on, I pointed out that Apple's most popular device, the iPhone, which should be the vehicle for such courageous endeavour, doesn't even have a USB-C connector. You then proceed to make excuses for Apple saying that it'd be too soon for the iPhone without realising that that's the essence of the argument that people who would like to see Apple include at least one TB2 and one USB3 port are making: it's too soon.​

If that were to shut you up, I'd buy you a couple USB-A to USB-C dongles (for $4.5 a piece). But of course it won't, because rationality has nothing to do with your reaction. You are no different then somebody running amok because somebody has taken their seat at the table and they now have to sit on a different chair.

I don't get your analogy at all. I doubt you yourself do either. You still don't get that it's not about the price, as most people here can afford dongles, but aesthetics and user experience.

What do you mean with not ready? You can get a Lightning to USB-C cable from Apple today.

Apple's own USB-C charge cable can't charge the latest MBP properly.

Sometimes I think one of the best things Apple does is to provide us with the spectacle of people loosing it whenever they have to buy a new cable or adaptor.

The amount of cables you need as an Apple user is getting out of hand. It has almost become a running joke in some quarters, if not in the United States. I'm glad that you seem to be immune to all this though.

That is the whole point of creating an ecosystem. Glad you seem to understand that.

The whole point of creating an ecosystem is supposedly to provide better user experience. Even the great Phil Schiller said so. I'm kind of sad that you don't seem to understand this.

And I enjoyed making fun of PC laptops with VGA ports a hundred times more, than it bothered me to carry a VGA adaptor around.

I wouldn't spend all my money on Macs all these years if I don't find something detestable about PCs (for now anyway).

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

Seriously people, how are these not professional machines? Radeon Pro is a workstation class GPU. People wanting the GTX 10XX need to understand that. These are not gaming machines.

Agreed. The new AMD GPUs are excellent performance/power (~35W). The new Nvidia GPUs are ~80-100, ~120, and ~150W TDP. That is hot and puts them in the hotter end of mobile workstation/gaming systems.

Source: http://wccftech.com/nvidia-pascal-geforce-gtx-1070-gtx-1060-mobility-benchmarks/

I find it funny that people say 16GB is not enough either. I get A LOT done on my 2013 rMBP with 16GB. Yeah my desktops have 32GB of ram, that is where I do all the heavy heavy work where something needs to render for 6+ hours.

I'm curious just how much more power/battery life 32GB consumes -- I would have liked that option.

 

[Ethosik]

Agreed. The new AMD GPUs are excellent performance/power (~35W). The new Nvidia GPUs are ~80-100, ~120, and ~150W TDP. That is hot and puts them in the hotter end of mobile workstation/gaming systems.

Source: http://wccftech.com/nvidia-pascal-geforce-gtx-1070-gtx-1060-mobility-benchmarks/



I'm curious just how much more power/battery life 32GB consumes -- I would have liked that option.

Don't get me wrong, 32 GB would be nice. But not something we need to make this MASSIVE ISSUE about.

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

Dongle-phobia seems to be serious condition here.

The sculpture aesthetic of the new machines is going to be ruined by all the dongles hanging off. Can't Apple see how much uglier that is than a few I/O ports. I'm going to be needing 3 USB-A ports, RJ-45 Ethernet, and, two DP or DVI dongles, indefinitely. And, BTW, I still fail to see the utility in combining up to 100W power input into an I/O cable/port. Makes no sense to me.

 

[Ethosik]

The sculpture aesthetic of the new machines is going to be ruined by all the dongles hanging off. Can't Apple see how much uglier that is than a few I/O ports. I'm going to be needing 3 USB-A ports, RJ-45 Ethernet, and, two DP or DVI dongles, indefinitely. And, BTW, I still fail to see the utility in combining up to 100W power input into an I/O cable/port. Makes no sense to me.

And one thing will get you most of the way there

https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/usb-c/owc/usb-c-dock

Guess what? I already need VGA and DVI dongles on my 2013 system.

 

[FreshBoy]

Again, a vacuous statement that doesn't contribute anything to your argument. If you're arguing that Apple's decision to go all USB-C in this iteration of MBP is necessary, it's already been debunked in our discussion. Just to remind you:
MacBook Pro doesn't have the sales numbers nor the market share to nudge the computer world towards any connector standard. As your previous argument rests entirely on the idea that it's time to move on, I pointed out that Apple's most popular device, the iPhone, which should be the vehicle for such courageous endeavour, doesn't even have a USB-C connector. You then proceed to make excuses for Apple saying that it'd be too soon for the iPhone without realising that that's the essence of the argument that people who would like to see Apple include at least one TB2 and one USB3 port are making: it's too soon.

Well there's a few options either buy the new MBP with a multi adapter or buy the new surface book or one of the dell offerings. At least dell are smart enough to include USB C with their current offerings.

Edit: MBP's might not have the sales numbers or market share to nudge the computer world to USB C but Apple sure have the means to do so. My money is on USB C to be here for the long haul.

 

[jtrauscht]

I've been a Mac advocate for over 25 years, and I'm sorry to say that I think Apple has lost its way in 2016. These are the worst products I have seen them release since Pippen. Touch Bar is almost insulting.

 

[manu chao]

The sculpture aesthetic of the new machines is going to be ruined by all the dongles hanging off. Can't Apple see how much uglier that is than a few I/O ports.

I don't see too much difference between cables hanging off or dongles having off, both are messy.

I'm going to be needing 3 USB-A ports, RJ-45 Ethernet, and, two DP or DVI dongles, indefinitely.

So, you will never, ever get peripherals with USB-C ports? You will never, ever switch from, eg, a USB-A to Lightning cable to a USB-C to Lightning cable? You will never, ever switch from a USB-A to USB micro to a USB-C to USB micro cable? You will never, ever switch to a USB-C or TB3 monitor?

And you are partially mistaken in calling these things dongles. A FW400 to FW800 cable is not a dongle, it's a cable. The same way a USB-C to Lightning cable is cable and not a dongle. The same way a USB-C to USB micro cable is a cable and not a dongle. And with the alternate modes of USB-C, you can have USB-C to DP or HDMI cables (yes, cables, one end of which you plug into the USB-C port of your computer and the other end of it directly into the DP or HDMI port of your monitor). Yes, you'll need dongles (or a dock) for Ethernet and DVI, but for the latter you have needed a dongle since 2008, and for the former since 2012.

So, you will not have your view ruined by having all the dongles hanging off your computer because mostly it'll be just different cables (for Lightning, USB-mini, USB-micro, USB3, DP, HDMI) or it will be same dongles you are used to for many years (DVI, Ethernet). You'll probably get one or two USB-C to USB-A adaptors, but those can be tiny and cheap (<$5):

And, BTW, I still fail to see the utility in combining up to 100W power input into an I/O cable/port. Makes no sense to me.

Single-cable dock solutions (that provide power and data via either USB-C or TB3) reduce the clutter that is ruining your view by half, by only requiring one instead of two cable connecting to your laptop. But I guess since you don't care about visual clutter, this has zero utility for you (or anybody else).

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

I don't see too much difference between cables hanging off or dongles having off, both are messy.

I plug the cables in at my desk. But, I have to walk around with 2-3 dongles attached to the system. See the difference?

So, you will never, ever get peripherals with USB-C ports? You will never, ever switch from, eg, a USB-A to Lightning cable to a USB-C to Lightning cable? You will never, ever switch from a USB-A to USB micro to a USB-C to USB micro cable? You will never, ever switch to a USB-C or TB3 monitor?

I have USB-A keyboards and mice already. USB 2.0 is appropriate for them, BTW-- no significant bandwidth requirements. I have USB-A memory sticks. I have several other USB-A dongles for different devices and purposes. I have DVI and DisplayPort monitors. (Why I need two DVI dongles now.) I occasionally use a TB storage system, along with the USB 3.0 and FW 800 that I already have. (Yes, I have a TB to FW800 dongle right in front of me 4 feet from my eyes at this moment.)

Could all of this be replaced by USB-C. Maybe, eventually, but, monitors turn over slowly and never have enough of all the possible inputs you want. RJ-45 Ethernet will not go away any time soon. In many workplace locations, a combination of local security measures, office environment issues (e.g. solid reinforced concrete walls in some building locations), and bandwidth requirements (especially backups, which everyone needs) will keep wired Ethernet around for a long time. Not to mention that Cat-5E/Cat-6 are already there, and configured the way they want them.

And with the alternate modes of USB-C, you can have USB-C to DP or HDMI cables (yes, cables, one end of which you plug into the USB-C port of your computer and the other end of it directly into the DP or HDMI port of your monitor). Yes, you'll need dongles (or a dock) for Ethernet and DVI, but for the latter you have needed a dongle since 2008, and for the former since 2012.

I don't accept the Ethernet situation. That was a dumb religion-driven mistake on the part of Apple. Agree about DVI when needed. Sometimes you can leave that plugged in at the monitor, although you have to be careful about losing those things also. Thankfully, VGA is relegated to the bottom of the dongle pile as I don't seem to need it any more. HDMI is the alternative to VGA, and, that is what I normally plug in to.

Likewise, HDMI connections are rather different, actually, from USB-C requirements, and I do already have a use for HDMI 2.0a/HDR/HDCP 2.2 today for 4K TV. 4K is here now and some conference rooms have large TV-type displays (e.g. 65").

So, you will not have your view ruined by having all the dongles hanging off your computer because mostly it'll be just different cables (for Lightning, USB-mini, USB-micro, USB3, DP, HDMI) or it will be same dongles you are used to for many years (DVI, Ethernet).

Single-cable dock solutions (that provide power and data via either USB-C or TB3) reduce the clutter that is ruining your view by half, by only requiring one instead of two cable connecting to your laptop. But I guess since you don't care about visual clutter, this has zero utility for you (or anybody else).

I would prefer power to be separate -- no, I don't really see the utility of one cable instead of two. I appreciate the docking station solutions, but, in order to have USB-A ports on the move, HDMI on the move, Ethernet on the move, I need a portable docking station that is powered from the USB-C cable, not vice-versa.

 

[manu chao]

I plug the cables in at my desk. But, I have to walk around with 2-3 dongles attached to the system. See the difference?

The point is, whatever cables you have sitting at your desk, you replace them with new cables. If you have multiple desks, you replace them at all those desks. Problem solved.

I have USB-A keyboards and mice already. USB 2.0 is appropriate for them, BTW-- no significant bandwidth requirements. I have USB-A memory sticks. I have several other USB-A dongles for different devices and purposes.

Get half a dozen of the tiny USB-A to USB-C adaptors I posted the image of (listed at $4.5 each) and add them to your USB-A devices cables. Problem solved.

I occasionally use a TB storage system, along with the USB 3.0 and FW 800 that I already have. (Yes, I have a TB to FW800 dongle right in front of me 4 feet from my eyes at this moment.)

Could all of this be replaced by USB-C. Maybe, eventually, but, monitors turn over slowly and never have enough of all the possible inputs you want.

Well, you can either keep FW400, FW800, TB1/2 and USB-A ports forever on your laptop, in addition to USB-C/TB3 ports, (let alone all the video ports) as well keeping all the relevant cables around (which isn't too different than not having the older ports and keeping the relevant conversion cables around, eg, is having to have both a FW800 to FW800 cable as well as a FW800 to FW400 cable around really worse than having to keep a FW800 to FW800 and FW400 to FW400 cable around), or you can upgrade your peripherals. In reality, a mixture of both will happen, but the difference between having the original ports or using conversion cables is most about the look of those cables.

RJ-45 Ethernet will not go away any time soon.

It has for me, I still have a laptop with an Ethernet port but I haven't really plugged it in in the last three years despite having an Ethernet cable at my desk. Go figure.

In many workplace locations, a combination of local security measures, office environment issues (e.g. solid reinforced concrete walls in some building locations), and bandwidth requirements (especially backups, which everyone needs) will keep wired Ethernet around for a long time.

Sure, and all those niche uses will be well served with an Ethernet dongle or a dock with an Ethernet port (possibly a monitor).

in order to have USB-A ports on the move, HDMI on the move, Ethernet on the move, I need a portable docking station that is powered from the USB-C cable, not vice-versa.

And USB-C allowing the computer to supply up to 100 W to things like docks, enables relatively cheap USB-C docks.

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

Get half a dozen of the tiny USB-A to USB-C adaptors I posted the image of (listed at $4.5 each) and add them to your USB-A devices cables. Problem solved.

Then, the new MBP should have had 8 new USB-C ports. But, since half of them don't need full bandwidth or power, make it 4 full USB-C ports and four limited ports. Then, how about they use this existing connector for the four limited ports so the user doesn't need the tiny adapter. Oh well.

 

[manu chao]

Then, the new MBP should have had 8 new USB-C ports. But, since half of them don't need full bandwidth or power, make it 4 full USB-C ports and four limited ports. Then, how about they use this existing connector for the four limited ports so the user doesn't need the tiny adapter. Oh well.

When did a Mac laptop ever had eight data ports?

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

When did a Mac laptop ever had eight data ports?

Six, plus, the magsafe, makes seven.

http://www.everymac.com/systems/app...5-17-late-2011-unibody-thunderbolt-specs.html

I would throw the eighth port in to cover the missing SuperDrive.

EDIT: FWIW, my Mac Mini has 10 ports, including the power port.

 

[0924487]

I'm a really loyal apple fan, but I'm also a rational person. For the first time, I hopelessly fell apple really messed up this round of release. I think apple's problem is getting unmanageable.

Tim can be a great COO and a VP of supply chain, but he is not and he will never become the brain and heart of Apple.

What apple needs is not time, not patient from customers, not fancy marketing, but a visionary who is competent enough to envision and guide Apple in next 50 years. Someone who can sell products in simple plain paper envelopes. Someone who can define the future of computing while presenting products that seamlessly transitions from the past industry standards. Someone who lust engineering perfection in products while understanding business economics. Someone who is a system builder that integrates all the service and products within the Ecosystem to provide an ease of mind for customers (starting by allowing iPhones to be plugged into Macbooks, Apple ear pods to be plugged into Macs, Mac standard USB-c to be plugged into IOS devices). Someone who leads, someone who creates, someone who can be the center of Apple - the Apple core, just like Steve.

Apple's outcome today was theorized by Steve decades ago. You can skip to 25:44s to see Steve's explanation of the fall of a great company or watch the entire interview. Link is here ---https://youtu.be/TRZAJY23xio?t=25m44s

My deepest condolences to Apple - once a miracle of greatness, no longer.

 

[citi]

You're absolutely right about the OS, except that Linux keeps supporting more and more (not yet all -- and not for a long time, unfortunately, all) of the productivity software I use most regularly and, in general, the OS becomes less and less important as everything moves to cross-platform native apps and web apps. It would be a huge mistake for Apple to bank on macOS, as great as it is, to keep people like me.

What? It would be better for them to bank on people buying copycat hardware because their software doesn't matter anymore? That's just not realistic and software still matter very much, for most people.