Thunderbolt 3 Ports on Right Side of 13-Inch MacBook Pro Have Reduced PCI Express Bandwidth

[SeaFox]

Apple definitely does not have a monopoly.

Really? Where can I buy a Mac not manufactured by Apple and run OSX in a fully-supported install?

The fact that creative types are considering the Surface Studio (which has a Skylake processor and lacks any I/O faster than USB 3.0) tells you that much.

Creative types are considering the Surface Studio because it's new and targets them -- that makes sense. Professionals will look for ways to make themselves more efficient.

If anything, I think Apple has let their notebook line get too cluttered. They need to stop selling older models and eventually need to push the MacBook Air to retirement. To do that, they'd naturally need to drop the prices of the 12" MacBook and base 13" Pro. They may yet do that, but obviously 2016 is not the year.

I agree the lineup was getting a little cluttered. The main problem was the new 12" Macbook that was obviously outclassing the Air in design as a subcompact machine, but too expensive to be the "entry level" laptop. But there are two things missing here right now: a consumer level laptop -- something that is about basic functionality and not design, something approachable and affordable. There needs to be a laptop under $1000. Second, there needs to be a professional laptop that supports legacy technologies out of the box, without dongles. I know Apple may love the idea of everyone sitting on beanbags in an open-style office, sipping lattes and using wi-fi. But the real world is about wired LANs, USB flash drives, and other methods of transmitting data and "I forgot the dongle" isn't the sort of excuse companies will like.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

So because you need a physical ethernet port I have to have a thicker laptop?
No thanks

I can give up an ethernet port, but it adds to the dongles that I have to carry. I did, at one point, carry an Airport Express for use at client sites. Then some objected to it, and I had to stop. I had a six foot long password, but I understand, somewhat, their paranoia. It was so much easier...
[doublepost=1477949006][/doublepost]

Well I am guessing that Apple has the metrics to KNOW who the users are. You are an example of ONE.
Personally I am looking forward to having ONE cable hooked into my laptop that charges my laptop while everything else hangs off the hub, I then get to work and plug in ONE cable and BOOM ethernet, raid array, external keyboard/mouse, large screen instantly available, no need to even take my power supply.

As for your example of USB, Apples did this once before, dumped serial ports/Appletalk and ADP bus for USB. At that time there were few USB peripherals and man did people whinge about how their printer, scanner, mouse, joystick, etc etc etc would not work on USB and Apple was DOOMED, DOOMED I SAY. Turned out Apple knew a hell of a lot more about where technology was heading than a pack of whingers on the internet.

Yep there is going to be some short term pain, but long term we will wonder what the fuss was about.

That doesn't mean they are right in this case. How long until we start seeing Thunderbolt flash sticks?

It's funny that Apple started with Thunderbolt, to 'think different', and then dumped it all for USB, and now the game of the moment is Thunderbolt again. 100% Thunderbolt. Or, well, buy an overpriced 'adapter'. They could have just thrown the world a bone and put a single USB 3 connector on them... That's I guess what I am getting at.

There is a line from Star Wars that might be appropriate: 'Who's the bigger fool? The fool, or the fool that follows him?'

Time will tell.

Wired loves the new MacBook Pro. That means something to people.

Thinking of my usage lately, I spend more time on the internets and using flash drives. Could I deal with a new MacBook Pro? I could get by... It would be a 'struggle'...

 

[KPOM]

Really? Where can I buy a Mac not manufactured by Apple and run OSX in a fully-supported install?

That's not a monopoly. Apple is one of many PC designers and macOS has about 7% of the market.

Creative types are considering the Surface Studio because it's new and targets them -- that makes sense. Professionals will look for ways to make themselves more efficient.

And the fact that people are considering switching from macOS to Windows 10 to use the Surface Studio indicates Apple doesn't have a monopoly.

I agree the lineup was getting a little cluttered. The main problem was the new 12" Macbook that was obviously outclassing the Air in design as a subcompact machine, but too expensive to be the "entry level" laptop. But there are two things missing here right now: a consumer level laptop -- something that is about basic functionality and not design, something approachable and affordable. There needs to be a laptop under $1000. Second, there needs to be a professional laptop that supports legacy technologies out of the box, without dongles. I know Apple may love the idea of everyone sitting on beanbags in an open-style office, sipping lattes and using wi-fi. But the real world is about wired LANs, USB flash drives, and other methods of transmitting data and "I forgot the dongle" isn't the sort of excuse companies will like.

Apple dropped Ethernet a long time ago, so wired LANs require an adapter even on the older Macs. flash drives are available with dual USB-A and USB-C (and most companies frown upon their use). Don't expect to see any legacy ports come back. Apple doesn't operate that way and they haven't since 1998 when they dropped all their legacy ports in favor of USB-A.

My guess is that eventually the MacBook and MacBook Pro will drop in price about $200 and the older models and MacBook Air will be dropped entirely, perhaps in a year or 2.

 

[Judas1]

No it isn't. Not on the MacBook Pro. It has TB3 and USB 3.1 Gen 2 which is twice as fast as Gen 1. Even Gen 1 isn't the same as USB 3.0 since the latter doesn't support native DisplayPort, HDMI, or 100W charging like USB 3.1 Gen 1.
[doublepost=1477947844][/doublepost]
Based on specs the vaunted Surface Studio has a Skylake chip, weak GPU, and doesn't offer a single Thunderbolt or even USB 3.1 Gen 2 port. It also doesn't have a wide gamut display.

Usb has been improved over time. Call it 3.1 or 3.11 or something else. The usb-c specification is for the new interface only. Meaning new standards has nothing to do with how the port looks. Btw, usb 3.1 gen 1 is just a renaming of 3.0. Gen 2 just means that the standard is usb-c.

 

[Feenician]

Professionals will look for ways to make themselves more efficient.

And boy do spinning discs with no SSD options make "professionals"* more efficient.

*Professional clowns, at the circus

 

[SeaFox]

That's not a monopoly. Apple is one one many PC designers and macOS has about 7% of the market.

Nice way to change the subject. I specifically asked about computer running macOS.

If someone wants to use macOS, or a program that is only available for OSX/macOS, they have to buy a computer made by Apple. If they cannot find a machine with the features they wants from Apple, they are S.O.L. If another manufacturer wanted to create a machine to fill this market's desire, they couldn't.

That's a monopoly.

Same as if I wanted a cell phone that ran iOS but got at least 500 hours of standby time, or an OLED screen. I couldn't get that. The closest I can do is an iPhone with a battery case. Another phone maker cannot build such a device because Apple does not make iOS available for licensing. People must now choose whether they want a phone released this year, or one that has a headphone jack now if they are an iOS user.

 

[Feenician]

If someone wants to use OSX, or a program that is only available for OSX, they have to buy a computer made by Apple.

It's not and it's absurd line of reasoning. If I want to buy a car that has Tesla Autopilot I have to buy a Tesla. OMG MONOPOLY!! BRING DOWN TESLA. No.

 

[KPOM]

Nice way to change the subject. I specifically asked about computer running macOS.

If someone wants to use macOS, or a program that is only available for OSX/macOS, they have to buy a computer made by Apple. If they cannot find a machine with the features they wants from Apple, they are S.O.L. If another manufacturer wanted to create a machine to fill this market's desire, they couldn't.

That's a monopoly.

Same as if I wanted a cell phone that ran iOS but got at least 500 hours of standby time, or an OLED screen. I couldn't get that. The closest I can do is an iPhone with a battery case. Another phone maker cannot build such a device because Apple does not make iOS available for licensing. People must now choose whether they want a phone released this year, or one that has a headphone jack now if they are an iOS user.

No, that's not a monopoly the way anti-trust regulators use the term. It would be a monopoly if macOS were running on substantially all personal computers, or if iOS were running on substantially all phones. There is very little software that exists on macOS that does not exist for Windows (basically just what Apple writes).

Does Tesla have a monopoly because no one else makes high end luxury 5-passenger sport sedans powered by electricity?
[doublepost=1477953132][/doublepost]

That doesn't mean they are right in this case. How long until we start seeing Thunderbolt flash sticks?

It's funny that Apple started with Thunderbolt, to 'think different', and then dumped it all for USB, and now the game of the moment is Thunderbolt again. 100% Thunderbolt. Or, well, buy an overpriced 'adapter'. They could have just thrown the world a bone and put a single USB 3 connector on them... That's I guess what I am getting at.

Sandisk has had USB-C flash sticks for over a year.

Apple didn't "dump" Thunderbolt for USB. Thunderbolt finally operates using the same interface as USB-C. Apple and Intel originally wanted Thunderbolt 1 and 2 to work over USB-A but the USB-IF wouldn't let them. That's why they used mDP. Unfortunately, Thunderbolt 1 and 2 never really caught on in the PC world and so when Intel began supporting USB 3.0 obviously Apple adopted it. However, several other PC makers, including HP and Dell use Thunderbolt 3 ports in some of their notebooks, so it makes sense that Apple would embrace that. Since TB3 was designed to be backward compatible with TB2 through adapters, that's the route Apple took.

"Throwing a bone" and putting a USB-A connector would have taken up the space that is currently occupied by a more capable port. A $19 adapter isn't that much, especially considering it's a one-time cost, and likely you'll use it less and less as more devices come out that support the newer port.

 

[SeaFox]

So because you need a physical ethernet port I have to have a thicker laptop?
No thanks

Who says you have to buy the same model laptop as PinkyMcGoddess?

Is there some reason Apple can't make a model that is thin for you, and a model that is thicker and have different ports? Keep in mind, it doesn't have to be really thick to accommodate a RJ45 port anyway. Is Apple so lacking in imagination they can't come up with a product whose primary feature is not "super thin"?

That's the real elephant in the room. Apple wants to be the defacto only company that can make Mac hardware, but by doing that they are also in a position where they need to supply product that meets all market segments. They aren't doing that. They are focusing on a specific, I would say over aesthetically focused group of their customers, at the expense of everyone else. Then they wonder why no one takes Mac gaming seriously and people are snickering at their "pro" machines.
[doublepost=1477953811][/doublepost]

No, that's not a monopoly the way anti-trust regulators use the term.

Who said I was measuring monopoly by that definition? They aren't focusing on a specific platform. I'm talking about macOS customer choice.

[doublepost=1477953132][/doublepost]

 

[sir1963nz]

Nice way to change the subject. I specifically asked about computer running macOS.

If someone wants to use macOS, or a program that is only available for OSX/macOS, they have to buy a computer made by Apple. If they cannot find a machine with the features they wants from Apple, they are S.O.L. If another manufacturer wanted to create a machine to fill this market's desire, they couldn't.

That's a monopoly.

Same as if I wanted a cell phone that ran iOS but got at least 500 hours of standby time, or an OLED screen. I couldn't get that. The closest I can do is an iPhone with a battery case. Another phone maker cannot build such a device because Apple does not make iOS available for licensing. People must now choose whether they want a phone released this year, or one that has a headphone jack now if they are an iOS user.

Actually I know a number of people who run a "Hackintosh".

People can choose a Windows phone or an Android phone.

EVERY reduct on earth has a compromise somewhere in its design, you just need to decide which compromises you are willing to accept.

Apart from that, you current computer does not stop working just because a new model gets released, my Laptop is a Mid 2011 MBP, I upgraded the RAM to 16GB and fitted an SSD into it, it has both Thunderbolt and Firewire 800 + USB2.
It does what I currently need so I doubt I will be buying anything new for another year or two.

By then there will be a lot of software taking advantage of the touch bar and there will be a lot more peripherals with USB-C, and I will look forward to powering it up off the external screen.

99% of the time I work on wireless networks with shared file space so don't use the ports very often anyway.

 

[lowkey]

Who says you have to buy the same model laptop as PinkyMcGoddess?

Is there some reason Apple can't make a model that is thin for you, and a model that is thicker and have different ports? Keep in mind, it doesn't have to be really thick to accommodate a RJ45 port anyway. Is Apple so lacking in imagination they can't come up with a product whose primary feature is not "super thin"?

That's the real elephant in the room. Apple wants to be the defacto only company that can make Mac hardware, but by doing that they are also in a position where they need to supply product that meets all market segments. They aren't doing that. They are focusing on a specific, I would say over aesthetically focused group of their customers, at the expense of everyone else. Then they wonder why no one takes Mac gaming seriously and people are snickering at their "pro" machines.
[doublepost=1477953811][/doublepost]

Who said I was measuring monopoly by that definition? They aren't focusing on a specific platform. I'm talking about macOS customer choice.

[doublepost=1477953132][/doublepost]

Yes I have to buy the same model because as you point out Apple don't make a massive range. They never have. They never will.

You're living in some fantasy land where all of a sudden Apple makes desktop replacements and isn't pushing their mobile computers to be as thin and light as possible.

 

[SeaFox]

It's not and it's absurd line of reasoning. If I want to buy a car that has Tesla Autopilot I have to buy a Tesla. OMG MONOPOLY!! BRING DOWN TESLA. No.

Red Herring is Red.

A car running specialized hardware and software made to interface with that specific hardware is miles from a Macintosh. Apple hardware stopped being specialized with the change to Intel -- don't kid yourself.

The existence of Hackintoshes proves there is nothing innate to Apple's machines that can't be duplicated on other machines. The restrictions are all software.

I can buy a PC made by Microsoft, HP, Dell, Lenovo, Acer, eMachines, or build my own as I have done, and run Microsoft Word on them all with equal ability.

If I want to run Final Cut Pro and have it supported -- I have to buy an Apple machine.

 

[Feenician]

The existence of Hackintoshes proves there is nothing innate to Apple's machines that can't be duplicated on other machines. The restrictions are all software.

The software is modified to do that. Tesla use off the shelf parts and even operating systems (they modify Ubuntu) to run their software too. Let's not stretch the analogy any further but there's no red herring here. Apple don't have a monopoly in any meaningful sense.

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

Yes I have to buy the same model because as you point out Apple don't make a massive range. They never have. They never will.

Actually, in 2008, they made a price-competitive entry level laptop that was the best value around, and, a leading edge laptop that had excellent performance. They could do that again. But, instead, they make a bunch of very similar notebook computers, with the low(er) end not being as good a value. The higher end MBP is not that bad a value, but, has sacrificed functionality in pursuit of beauty.

You're living in some fantasy land where all of a sudden Apple makes desktop replacements and isn't pushing their mobile computers to be as thin and light as possible.

You accept the new product lineup. I find it very limited. Too many similar models in the middle, no competitive entry-level model and a high end that doesn't fit its niche requirements very well.

I haven't touched one yet, but, from published reports, I'm expecting an excellent display and the best GPU performance for the available power. And, lots of dongles, sigh.

 

[sir1963nz]

Who says you have to buy the same model laptop as PinkyMcGoddess?

Is there some reason Apple can't make a model that is thin for you, and a model that is thicker and have different ports? Keep in mind, it doesn't have to be really thick to accommodate a RJ45 port anyway. Is Apple so lacking in imagination they can't come up with a product whose primary feature is not "super thin"?

That's the real elephant in the room. Apple wants to be the defacto only company that can make Mac hardware, but by doing that they are also in a position where they need to supply product that meets all market segments. They aren't doing that. They are focusing on a specific, I would say over aesthetically focused group of their customers, at the expense of everyone else. Then they wonder why no one takes Mac gaming seriously and people are snickering at their "pro" machines.
[doublepost=1477953811][/doublepost]

Who said I was measuring monopoly by that definition? They aren't focusing on a specific platform. I'm talking about macOS customer choice.

[doublepost=1477953132][/doublepost]

Apple IS the only company that can make APPLE products, just like Ford, Chrysler , Adobe, etc etc are the only ones who can make products from they respective companies.

And they have no obligation to do / make anything for anyone.

Now, if this does not work for you, you can learn to program and then modify the hell out of Linux/BSD to meet your specific needs and desires and run it on the hardware of your choice.

 

[musiciscool]

Because for $2300, I'll be expecting a computer that is capable to distribute bandwidth equally to all four ports.

It's $2399 for the 15 inch, that has full speed on all four ports, right?

 

[sir1963nz]

Red Herring is Red.

A car running specialized hardware and software made to interface with that specific hardware is miles from a Macintosh. Apple hardware stopped being specialized with the change to Intel -- don't kid yourself.

The existence of Hackintoshes proves there is nothing innate to Apple's machines that can't be duplicated on other machines. The restrictions are all software.

I can buy a PC made by Microsoft, HP, Dell, Lenovo, Acer, eMachines, or build my own as I have done, and run Microsoft Word on them all with equal ability.

If I want to run Final Cut Pro and have it supported -- I have to buy an Apple machine.

Well I am awaiting the return of MacDraw Pro and Claris Draw, I used both Apps extensively.

I am sure that if you went to Apple and asked for a custom piece of hardware to suit your desires, Apple will be happy to oblige so long as you payp up the full costs of doing so , it may well cost you millions, maybe tens of millions.

Apple is well aware of where technology is heading, they are on plenty of standards bodies.

Apple will be well aware of technical trends from the likes of Intel, Broadcom,etc etc

Apple will be well aware from the metrics they collect who the majority of users are, how often they use ethernet/wireless, how often they use USB ports, SD slot, CD drive etc etc etc based on tens of millions of users. Apple KNOWS their customers far better than you do and you are just a single customer, ONE data point and they are NOT EVER going to build something for just you, unless you are will to pay for it.

 

[brownbird]

Maybe Apple should get out of the hardware business. :/

 

[KPOM]

Who says you have to buy the same model laptop as PinkyMcGoddess?

Is there some reason Apple can't make a model that is thin for you, and a model that is thicker and have different ports? Keep in mind, it doesn't have to be really thick to accommodate a RJ45 port anyway. Is Apple so lacking in imagination they can't come up with a product whose primary feature is not "super thin"?

That's the real elephant in the room. Apple wants to be the defacto only company that can make Mac hardware, but by doing that they are also in a position where they need to supply product that meets all market segments. They aren't doing that. They are focusing on a specific, I would say over aesthetically focused group of their customers, at the expense of everyone else. Then they wonder why no one takes Mac gaming seriously and people are snickering at their "pro" machines.
[doublepost=1477953811][/doublepost]

Who said I was measuring monopoly by that definition? They aren't focusing on a specific platform. I'm talking about macOS customer choice.

[doublepost=1477953132][/doublepost]

People are already complaining that Apple's lineup is getting cluttered and you want them to make even more designs?

RJ45? Wireless rules in the workplace today. It's just that much more convenient. Ethernet cables break easily. Macs have never been about gaming. They are losing ground in education and creative shops, but they are not about to start making $200 Chromebook clones.

My guess is that Apple does want to simplify the lineup and is holding over the older models only until they can drop the prices on the newer models while maintaining their margins. So we will eventually get to MacBooks with a single USB-C, and MacBook Pros with multiple Thunderbolt 3 ports. The Touch Bar will likely remain a "Pro" feature, though Thunderbolt 3 might migrate to the MacBook if Cannonlake supports it natively (Kaby Lake-Y does not).

There is no requirement that Apple supply products that meet all market segments. For example, they used to supply servers. That wasn't profitable so they stopped. MacBooks and MacBook Pros outsell desktop Macs, so it's understandable that's where their focus lies. Internet chat room reaction isn't always indicative of sales. The new MacBook Pros are generating strong reaction from the boards, but initial reactions of the tech press have been positive.

Regarding thinner and lighter, that's every notebook maker today. Touchscreens add weight and thickness, but even so Windows PC makers like to brag when they make computers lighter, smaller, and yes, thinner than Apple's products.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Maybe Apple should get out of the hardware business. :/

Apple should have bought Sun...

 

[lowkey]

Actually, in 2008, they made a price-competitive entry level laptop that was the best value around, and, a leading edge laptop that had excellent performance. They could do that again. But, instead, they make a bunch of very similar notebook computers, with the low(er) end not being as good a value. The higher end MBP is not that bad a value, but, has sacrificed functionality in pursuit of beauty.



You accept the new product lineup. I find it very limited. Too many similar models in the middle, no competitive entry-level model and a high end that doesn't fit its niche requirements very well.

I haven't touched one yet, but, from published reports, I'm expecting an excellent display and the best GPU performance for the available power. And, lots of dongles, sigh.

I bought a 12" MB rev1 for $1429 Australian. It was on the refurb store [factory sealed still]. I consider that quite a good price for what you get. It is extremely well put together. Light, and super portable. 1.1GHz chip. Integrated graphics. Gets everything done that i need at work. InDesign, Word, XL, Outlook and occasional Photoshop.

The new rMBPs seem massively different to the MB. Quad Core i7 chips, at least 300% faster in Geekbench than my MB. Dedicated Graphics. 4 times the number of ports. Bigger Screen. Touchbar.

In 2008 you had the white Macbook with a 2.1 Core2Duo and 12" screen. There was a 12" Alum Macbook with 2.0 or 2.4 GHz Core2Duo and 12" screen. The only real difference between these computers was the Aluminium body. Even the top of the range Macbook Pro 15" only had a 2.66 Core2Duo chip. There was very little difference between models.

There is a much bigger range now with the ultra portable 900gram 12" at one end and the top of the range 15"MBP at the other.

The thing i would agree with you is that the current range is not price competitive. The MB should be sold for much less than the current price. Currently its like the Macbook Air was when it was first introduced...expensive! But like the Air it should become the big selling entry level model.

 

[bjet767]

What Dell XPS 15 are you talking about?

Poot if you read my post instead of reacvting to it I got that price from New Egg's web site.

But I did go to the Dell site after reading your post and yes it's on sale.

Dell is pumping it abit by calling it a 3.5 when in reality it's a 2.6 boost to 3.5.

As I have written in many posts if a person wants a high end Windows machine that is comparable to Apple's they are available, but no OSX.

I'm on Dell's email list and get hammered with ads and discount offers for their products and why are they giving away a monitor with the XPS and discounting it $200+?

Maybe the notebook market is bad all over or people really don't want Dells?

Yes there are options, however again no OSX.

Thank you for pointing out and asking about my post.

 

[Mac 128]

Really? Where can I buy a Mac not manufactured by Apple and run OSX in a fully-supported install?



Creative types are considering the Surface Studio because it's new and targets them -- that makes sense. Professionals will look for ways to make themselves more efficient.



I agree the lineup was getting a little cluttered. The main problem was the new 12" Macbook that was obviously outclassing the Air in design as a subcompact machine, but too expensive to be the "entry level" laptop. But there are two things missing here right now: a consumer level laptop -- something that is about basic functionality and not design, something approachable and affordable. There needs to be a laptop under $1000. Second, there needs to be a professional laptop that supports legacy technologies out of the box, without dongles. I know Apple may love the idea of everyone sitting on beanbags in an open-style office, sipping lattes and using wi-fi. But the real world is about wired LANs, USB flash drives, and other methods of transmitting data and "I forgot the dongle" isn't the sort of excuse companies will like.

Apple does offer a laptop for under $1,000. They also offer a Pro laptop that supports legacy technologies out of the box, with comperable performance to the new MBPs.

 

[Pootmatoot]

Poot if you read my post instead of reacvting to it I got that price from New Egg's web site.

But I did go to the Dell site after reading your post and yes it's on sale.

Dell is pumping it abit by calling it a 3.5 when in reality it's a 2.6 boost to 3.5.

Could you link to that Dell on New Egg? I can't find it after hunting, and I find it very unlikely New Egg would sell a configuration for $1000 more than the base price from the manufacturer... when the manufacturers lists at the RRP - by their reseller contract - and resellers usually undercut it.

There is an i5 config... but it's $1300 LESS than the Apple model you listed, and therefore is clearly in a different tier entirely - it's a budget machine.


The model you talk about... doesn't exist. I think you're mistaken. You're saying "Yes it's on sale" like you also found that model on Dell.com... the only I5 on Dell is a Quadcore for $1,199.99...)

 

[Digital Dude]

Well, I'll admit it, I bashed this thing six ways to Sunday but ended up ordering one just the same. Not because I like it, or at least not yet, but because I need it. In less than a year with the 12-inch MacBook, I'm plagued with stuck keys and poor performance. I'm taking a huge gamble with this new 15-inch fully maxed out, and I pray that it last at least a couple of years. If not, then I'm out here.