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Thunderbolt 5 Announced With Up to 3x More Bandwidth

JosephAW said:
All this technology is still using copper?:rolleyes:
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I too am disappointed that LightPeak, the origin of TB, has still not made it to its original conception. My understanding is that controller chip photonics, while making great strides in R&D labs, are still not where they need to be to make the switch.
 
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Adreitz said:
"Bandwidth boost"?? If it can deliver 120GBps, why wouldn't it run at that speed all the time? Doesn't make much sense besides marketing.
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It seems to me the 80 Gbps bi-directional is getting chopped to 120/40 to do it. So probably because of that trade-off, and that not every monitor would need to eat that 120 bandwidth. Few would, really.
 
VulchR said:
What else would it use? Fibre optics? If so, the latter doesn't make for very robust, flexible cabling.
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It’s just disappointing because TB *started* as a fiber optic project, LightPeak.

When the switch is eventually made (photonics are coming to the market in the coming years and Corning has been doing amazing work lately) we’re going to see frankly unbelievable bandwidth improvements.

That said, it’s likely going to first be a commercial offering for interconnects between server components before it ever gets to consumers.
 
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MallardDuck said:
Great, but they need to improve the cable length spec. Anything over 6' is insanely priced.
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That’s because it’s an insanely hard physics problem to get these specs to travel further. I think most long distance (10+ feet) TB implementations actually use a fiber optic cable that gets converted back to digital on both ends.


Thunderbolt™ Optical Cables | OEM Optical Communication Solutions | Corning

Corning’s Thunderbolt™ 3 and Thunderbolt™ 2 optical cables enable high-speed data transfer over longer distances for media, broadcasting, and entertainment applications industries.
www.corning.com www.corning.com
 
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Too bad Thunderbolt peripherals are so hard to find. The industry is more interested in making USB peripherals.
 
NT1440 said:
It’s just disappointing because TB *started* as a fiber optic project, LightPeak.

When the switch is eventually made (photonics are coming to the market in the coming years and Corning has been doing amazing work lately) we’re going to see frankly unbelievable bandwidth improvements.

That said, it’s likely going to first be a commercial offering for interconnects between server components before it ever gets to consumers.
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I have equipment in my lab connected by fibre optic cables (less pickup of AC noise that way). Great signal but the cables are quite rigid and prone to snapping. I suppose newer materials might be more flexible and robust, but we're talking about consumers using them.
 
VulchR said:
I have equipment in my lab connected by fibre optic cables (less pickup of AC noise that way). Great signal but the cables are quite rigid and prone to snapping. I suppose newer materials might be more flexible and robust, but we're talking about consumers using them.
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Yea there’s consumer cables from Corning, but durability will always be a problem.

I’ve yet to fray a single lightning cable, because I’m not an idiot, but I’ve seen literally hundreds at this point from users who don’t seem to know or care how not to strain a cable…
 
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hardwickj said:
It literally says in the announcement:

Computers and accessories based on Intel's Thunderbolt 5 controller, code-named Barlow Ridge, are expected to be available starting in 2024.
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Apple has been very quick to adopt the latest Thunderbolt standard in the past. I don't expect to see this on M3's, but I wouldn't be surprised at all to see it on M3 Pro/Max based systems in 2024.
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Probably not.

" ... The technical aspects of Barlow Ridge such as package size and TDP will be made public in the coming months. Intel expects Thunderbolt 5-equipped computers and accessories to launch in 2024. Technical collateral and other developer resources will become available in Q4 2023..
..."
https://www.anandtech.com/show/20050/intel-unveils-barlow-ridge-thunderbolt-5-controllers

'starting in 2024' likely just means the year where things will start. Not suggesting that it will start when 2024 starts.

Two factors. First, Decent chance that long term early planning had the M3's coming in 2023 ; not 2024. So unlikely to have included a 2024 'feature' in a 2023 product. Furthermore , that "coming in 2024" is probably Q4 2024 time frame. Is there really going to be a M4 in 2024. Track record so far says not. M1 -> M2 gap more than a year. M2 -> M3 again more than a year.

Second, Intel isn't even delivering the finished technical docs until Q4 2023. The tech specs for the discrete controllers are not out. Even if folks get final stuff so can wrap up the designs, then have to get products tested, verified, manufacturing worked out , etc. The bulk of the beginning of year is just getting stuff done. If there are no host TBv5 systems how likely are there going to be peripherals ready to go? Not likely.

Intel's updates this Q4 are a Raptor Refresh.... which isn't going to be TBv5 'native'. Nor is the laptop (Meteor Lake) which would deliver bulk of host TB ports to drive adoption.

USB4v2 is mainly missing in action right now also even without the mandatory Thunderbolt requirements stacked on top. Thunderbolt v5 can only get adopted as fast as USB4v2 is because it is simply layered on top. If USB4v2 is super slow then TBv5 will be super slow also.

INtel is probably going to make their "2024" deadline with a small handfull of systems that come out in Q4 , maybe late Q3 , that sake the claim , but volume won't come until 2025.


This TBv5 thing is mainly a 'paper launch'. Just hoping folks don't forget about it. This is Intel flogging stuff that isn't "fully baked" in the press.
 
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adib said:
Thunderbolt 3 already supports two 4K monitors (source: I'm using a couple almost daily, along with a USB 3.0 hard drive, plugged into a WavLink dock). Thus, there's no improvement in Thunderbolt 4?
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As I understand this one… on the top end, they’re identical. However, TB4 establishes much higher minimums than TB3 does. So while, yes, TB3 can support 2 4K monitors - not all of them can, so you may come across discrepancies with a different TB3 machine. But all TB4 can run it without any questions.
 
platinumaqua said:
Too bad Thunderbolt peripherals are so hard to find. The industry is more interested in making USB peripherals.
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It seems like there is plenty of TB where it needs to be.

High resolution displays.
Docks.
Professional video equipment.
External PCI hardware.

What other devices do you think need TB that are missing it?
 
I'm extremely excited for TB5, although I imagine it probably isn't coming to Mac until M4.

Inevitably this seems like opening the Pro Display XDR to 8K w/ high refresh.
 
Born Again said:
Nice move intel. Stealing apple’s thunder today.

I can see the press now “intel announces thunderbolt 5 and in other news Apple releases yet another iPhone…”
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And yet Intel continued to use the co-branded name for this USB-C standard ;)

Ain’t stewing no “thunder” from Apple or their Thunderbolt ;) nice play unto words there still. Nicely done and smooth
 
JDHiro said:
It seems like there is plenty of TB where it needs to be.

High resolution displays.
Docks.
Professional video equipment.
External PCI hardware.

What other devices do you think need TB that are missing it?
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I said they're hard to find, not that they don't exist.

Since thunderbolt 3 came out many peripherals (docks, NVMe enclosures) say they're "compatible with Thunderbolt 3" since the connector is USB-C but internally they communicate via USB 3.x. You'll have to really look carefully if you want something that talks Thunderbolt.
 
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Analog Kid said:
I would just like to give the Thunderbolt standards team credit for clear branding.

Look at the connector-- do you see a 5? If yes, it's Thunderbolt 5 compatible!
What was the generation before 5? 4. Not 4.2 gen 3x5. Not 4E or 4A or 4sK. Just 4, then 5.
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Unfortunately Apple's cables don't do this (at least, their gen 4 TB cables don't whereas everyone else's do)
 
How does this work with Apple no longer using Intel chips?

The article makes it sounds that Apple devices get it, but that is not really a given?
 
Zest28 said:
How does this work with Apple no longer using Intel chips?

The article makes it sounds that Apple devices get it, but that is not really a given?
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The TB spec was a dual project between Intel and Apple (look up LightPeak) from its inception. Apple definitely has all the IP they need. That and TB has been royalty free since 2019.

Basically it comes down to controllers at this point.
 
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