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Thunderbolt 5 Announced With Up to 3x More Bandwidth

NT1440 said:
I’ve yet to fray a single lightning cable, because I’m not an idiot, but I’ve seen literally hundreds at this point from users who don’t seem to know or care how not to strain a cable…
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A bit off subject but…

I have seen lots of failed lightning cable. Usually it is not the cable fraying but the tab with the conductors that sticks out off connector. I have never seen that problem with USB-C (or even USB-A) connectors. Although way back when in a different life, I saw lots of frayed 300 ohm (not 75 ohm) cables attached to BNC connectors.
 
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Chuckeee said:
A bit off subject but…

I have seen lots of failed lightning cable. Usually it is not the cable fraying but the tab with the conductors that sticks out off connector. I have never seen that problem USB-C (or even USB-A) connectors.
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That’s exactly what I mean by fraying. People disconnect by pulling the cord instead of the plastic and over time that results in exposed wiring that eventually frays.

The other annoying thing about lightning is its propensity to have certain leads corrode with a buildup overtime. Usually a coppery green. I’ve sanded quite a few over the years to take it off what otherwise is a perfectly functional cable.
 
qCzar said:
What benefit would a phone get with TB5?
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DeepIn2U said:
I’d rather Apple bring slightly thinner bezels, Thunderbolt 4 USB-C with full data throughput for exporting ProRes & ProRAW

Killer feature would be for FCP to be able to edit ON device storage or import and export to iPhone Pro & ultra series along with carrying for photo editing softwares preferences for camera to the iPhone !!

It’ll be like having your pro SLR cameras best settings that are exported and edited into the editing software preset on the iPhone. All of your choice! Change in device at will and creativity of the content capture would explode
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^ stated this back in February 2023!

I have a BIG feeling this is something Apple will announce today or bring very soon into the future!
 
crsh1976 said:
What would you need TB5 bandwidth on the AVP for?
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Apple marketed it towards is professionals using the AVP for work. I can't remember if they demoed it connected to a Mac or not but I was under the impression that they did. So for someone like me who is editing videos day to day, I would want the fastest connection possible for the best screen refresh rate on the AVP.
 
MrENGLISH said:
Apple marketed it towards is professionals using the AVP for work. I can't remember if they demoed it connected to a Mac or not but I was under the impression that they did. So for someone like me who is editing videos day to day, I would want the fastest connection possible for the best screen refresh rate on the AVP.
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I (kind of) understand the data transfer aspect (though AVP workflows should not be analogous to the desktop paradigm).

But…what in the world does TB have to do with refresh rates on AVP????
 
deconstruct60 said:
That is an adaptor. There is a Firewire controller inside that adaptor. Thunderbolt delivers PCI-e data to the connection of THAT controller which delivers the Firewire.

There is an Ethernet Adaptor also. Same thing. host PCI-e ---> Thunderbolt ---> PCI-=e in adaptor --> Ethernet controller --> Ethernet socket.

In neither case is Thunderbolt actually dircectly 'talking' to the port.
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Great point.

I guess in realistic terms for me adapters are just the norm and direct vs adapter has no real world difference to me. HDMI, USBA, SD CARD, Display Port, all some sort of hub/adapter/conversion
 
MrENGLISH said:
Apple marketed it towards is professionals using the AVP for work. I can't remember if they demoed it connected to a Mac or not but I was under the impression that they did. So for someone like me who is editing videos day to day, I would want the fastest connection possible for the best screen refresh rate on the AVP.
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I don't recall the AVP getting marketed as a device for pros in the announcement reel, but why not - I mean it's so vague right now anyway, conceptually it could work, but who knows what this will be used for.
 
deconstruct60 said:
Probably not.

" ... The technical aspects of Barlow Ridge such as package size and TDP will be made public in the coming months. Intel expects Thunderbolt 5-equipped computers and accessories to launch in 2024. Technical collateral and other developer resources will become available in Q4 2023..
..."
https://www.anandtech.com/show/20050/intel-unveils-barlow-ridge-thunderbolt-5-controllers

'starting in 2024' likely just means the year where things will start. Not suggesting that it will start when 2024 starts.

Two factors. First, Decent chance that long term early planning had the M3's coming in 2023 ; not 2024. So unlikely to have included a 2024 'feature' in a 2023 product. Furthermore , that "coming in 2024" is probably Q4 2024 time frame. Is there really going to be a M4 in 2024. Track record so far says not. M1 -> M2 gap more than a year. M2 -> M3 again more than a year.

Second, Intel isn't even delivering the finished technical docs until Q4 2023. The tech specs for the discrete controllers are not out. Even if folks get final stuff so can wrap up the designs, then have to get products tested, verified, manufacturing worked out , etc. The bulk of the beginning of year is just getting stuff done. If there are no host TBv5 systems how likely are there going to be peripherals ready to go? Not likely.

Intel's updates this Q4 are a Raptor Refresh.... which isn't going to be TBv5 'native'. Nor is the laptop (Meteor Lake) which would deliver bulk of host TB ports to drive adoption.

USB4v2 is mainly missing in action right now also even without the mandatory Thunderbolt requirements stacked on top. Thunderbolt v5 can only get adopted as fast as USB4v2 is because it is simply layered on top. If USB4v2 is super slow then TBv5 will be super slow also.

INtel is probably going to make their "2024" deadline with a small handfull of systems that come out in Q4 , maybe late Q3 , that sake the claim , but volume won't come until 2025.


This TBv5 thing is mainly a 'paper launch'. Just hoping folks don't forget about it. This is Intel flogging stuff that isn't "fully baked" in the press.
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I get your reasoning, but I still disagree. Intel publicly previewed TB5 nearly a year ago already. I'd find it hard to believe that Apple hasn't already been working on this in-house since then, if not well before. Sure, finalized technical docs may not be ready until sometime next year, but I'm nearly certain somewhere at Apple there are a handful of engineers that have a pre-release version and are already working towards what will be the finalized version.

The only caveat is what you said regarding the M3 timeframe. If M3 really was originally intended for a 2023 release, then it makes sense that TB5 wouldn't be included. But we honestly don't know what the M3's timeframe is, we only have speculation.
 
Will it support MTS daisy chaining? I am so frustrated that I have to use both of my thunderbolt ports on my 2020 iMac 27" to drive my two Samsung SH850 24" monitors as extended. The DisplayPort daisy chain function of the monitors meeds MTS to not simply Mirror monitor A to monitor B.
 

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Born Again said:
Nice move intel. Stealing apple’s thunder today.

I can see the press now “intel announces thunderbolt 5 and in other news Apple releases yet another iPhone…”
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I would like to agree with you but I don’t know if the press or public really care about Thunderbolt 5. New iPhones on the other hand….
 
MacRumors said:
Thunderbolt 5 continues to be built in industry standards such as… PCI Express Gen 4
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I know it takes years to finalize standards, but really bummed that it's only PCIe 4. PCIe 6 was released in January, 2022 (so 1.5 years ago), and even PCIe 5 was released in May, 2019 (4+ years ago). While I personally probably wouldn't need that kind of bandwidth, it would be nice to have. I know Sonnet Technologies has a bunch of Thunderbolt PCIe enclosures. Would be nice to be able to use the full bandwidth of some of the cards supported, as well as support higher end cards as well.
 
MacRumors said:
It is highly likely that Thunderbolt 5 will come to future Apple devices.
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The author seems to be unaware that, in order for it to be called Thunderbolt, the device needs to run on Intel processors.

Everything else is just sparkling USB.

Apple initially mentioned USB4 on their M1 devices in lieu of Thunderbolt (which for the most part is the same, lacking only a few benefits).

Later on they also listed Thunderbolt support presumably based on a deal with Intel based on the fact that Apple used to co-own the standard with Intel.

The details of that deal are not public and while Intel made Thunderbolt royalty free, they still require it to be certified by them and a requirement for certification is for the device to run on an Intel CPU (even though it’s not a technical requirement evidenced by people being able to make it work with AMD CPUs).

All of that is to say that it’s anything but highly likely for TB5 to make its way to Apple devices.

It wholly depends on what the details of the agreement between Intel and Apple are.
 
NT1440 said:
How does that factor into the screens built into the AVP though? It’s not driving external monitors.
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AVP is at least 120Hz or more and connecting it to a Mac means that the AVP becomes the virtual screen.

Screenshot 2023-09-12 at 3.04.39 PM.png
 
MrENGLISH said:
AVP is at least 120Hz or more and connecting it to a Mac means that the AVP becomes the virtual screen.

View attachment 2259617
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It’s 90hz or more, but that’s besides the point.

That connection for the virtual monitor is wireless, TB has no impact on that whatsoever. I think you may have misunderstood that part of the presentation?

www.tomsguide.com

Apple Vision Pro can be used as a Mac display — here's how it works

Porting your Mac display to the headset sounds incredibly simple
www.tomsguide.com www.tomsguide.com

It’s wireless, which to me is even cooler.
 
spillled typos said:
Unfortunately Apple's cables don't do this (at least, their gen 4 TB cables don't whereas everyone else's do)
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Yeah, that's a bit disappointing from a company that requires every one else to certify products for compatibility...

Thunderbolt 4 USB‑C Pro Cable 1 m - Apple

Apple Store Search Results
www.apple.com

Is there an incompatibility between TB4 and TB3 cables though? I can't find anything that says...
 
NT1440 said:
It’s 90hz or more, but that’s besides the point.

That connection for the virtual monitor is wireless, TB has no impact on that whatsoever. I think you may have misunderstood that part of the presentation?

www.tomsguide.com

Apple Vision Pro can be used as a Mac display — here's how it works

Porting your Mac display to the headset sounds incredibly simple
www.tomsguide.com www.tomsguide.com

It’s wireless, which to me is even cooler.
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Right. I am just saying that IF you can connect via TB cable to your Mac, I would want it to be TB5 and not TB4 due to the refresh rate of the TB CABLE.
 
MrENGLISH said:
Right. I am just saying that IF you can connect via TB cable to your Mac, I would want it to be TB5 and not TB4 due to the refresh rate of the TB CABLE.
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But you can’t. Because there is no reason to. Apple has already taken care of it wirelessly.
 
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