Tiger Available April 29th

[jim.]

Jim stated :

You still haven't paid attention to a single post that tells you exactly what CoreImage is, have you? Have you read the description at the Apple website other than the list of cards that have the pipeline optimization? I mean seriously, it's one thing to complain if you don't fully understand something, but to deliberately ignore people who try to help you understand and continue complaining?

Brother,have you read the actual list of video cards?

Core Image-capable graphics cards include:

* ATI Mobility Radeon 9700
* ATI Radeon 9600 XT, 9800 XT, X800 XT
* nVidia GeForce FX Go 5200
* nVidia GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
* nVidia GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL, 6800 GT DDL

Core Image-capable graphics cards include:
Core Image-capable graphics cards include:
Core Image-capable graphics cards include:

The keyword here is INCLUDE

The above cards are not the only cards that support coreimage.

All you folks worried about coreimage and the mini have nothing to worry about

Thanks for backing me on this, though I don't think that was your intention since you seemed to have not read my post (or just misinterpreted it). I think that the cards listed are the ones that will 100% support all functions on the GPU. I'm betting that other cards will support almost all of core image on the gpu, and then most of the rest on cpu in altivec.

All CoreImage is, is an abstraction to program the GPU directly. It's kind of like how C or C++ is to direct assembly language (though I'm willing to bet that the CoreImage API is much cleaner than some C or C++ libs). In other words, it lets you do pretty complex things by simply calling a function instead of doing gritty low level stuff that would take a lot of time.

Now, some GPUs don't have all the capabilities that these functions call, so then these functions will mostly be emulated in the altivec extensions, where possible. If they are too intensive, then I assume that OSX will gracefully ignore unsupported code or use a less intensive routine that is similar.

For the most part, the intensive functions are really only going to be relevant to those of you that program graphics or video apps (or maybe 3D games). I'm sure apple has thrown in some intensive stuff, just for the 'awe-factor' in its pro-line (like the ripple effect). In no way will the scaling down of functions affect your experience in OSX, unless you decide to use one of the non-existant video or image editors that may be just over the horizon. In that case, you shouldn't even be using anything other than a pro-line mac. In fact, as long as work has gone into Quartz Extreme, and Quartz 2D Extreme, everyone should see a speed boost in UI operations. CoreImage should not affect the UI detrimentally in any way unless you decide to disassemble aqua and hack in really pointless eyecandy.

The real point is that whining over some functions of CoreImage that may or may not be supported is like complaining to Adobe because your iBook can't handle as many transforms at once as your friend's Dual G5. Lower end stuff will never support as much as professional level stuff. period.

Jim

 

[salmon]

I definitely can relate to that feeling... I came close to tossing that PowerMac G4 through my window after investing almost 4Gs into it. Thank God sanity got a hold of me quickly and I accepted my fate as a computer user who was already so 'yesterday'. It didn't help that I work in high end visual effects for the film industry and speed is an issue. But I figured I would be patient and wait it out a couple of years and get the latest and greatest G5 then.... I simply wished that the Apple retailer salesman had been honest with me. He must have known....

Anyway, if the rumors are true, I am buying the new PowerMac G5 with its dual core technology and the 3Ghz proc benchmark finally here. Otherwise, I will be, as I have in the last couple of years, sniffing around the rumor sites to find out when the latest gem comes out.

They got me once...they won't get me twice....

Actually, from what I know, Apple retailers (at least third party ones, have no idea about the Apple Stores) don't know beforehand - although I suspect they do pay close attention to the reliable rumor sites.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about that.

 

[SiliconAddict]

Response to a funny post by Jimbo

You still haven't paid attention to a single post that tells you exactly what CoreImage is, have you? Have you read the description at the Apple website other than the list of cards that have the pipeline optimization? I mean seriously, it's one thing to complain if you don't fully understand something, but to deliberately ignore people who try to help you understand and continue complaining?
Seriously man, do you have better things to do than complain about an API?

Yes I have better things to do like complain about Apple knowingly and intentionally neutering their low end hardware for the sake of a future sale. That is Microsoft tactics and pretty damn slimy AFAIC.

Do you know what an API is? Are you even a graphics programmer? Are you going to be doing hardcore video or image editing on your mini? This is the target for CoreImage,

Umm no it isn’t. What the heck do you think and API is anyways? I'd suggest you do some READING before you comment.

and it is about the only time you would see it. For goodness sake, apps using it haven't even been written yet! Most of the big apps won't port over to the new API anyway because it won't be worth their programmers' time.
It's like I decided to complain that MS's new supercomputer platform addons won't work as quickly on my Toshiba laptop in my basement. Well, not quite like that, but pretty close.

Oh THAT'S a good example. First off their supercomputer platform and the desktop have nothing in common. Wouldn’t even RUN on an x86 platform. Better example would be running Windows Server 2003 on a desktop? Can it be done? Yep. In fact I’m doing it at home. Simple point that is passing over your head at Mach 5: Apple actively designed the mini to not support ALL of Tiger’s features in a meaningful way. (How many times do I have to say this before it sinks in and people get a clue?) Yes I’m aware that Core Image will be processed through the CPU. Bet cash that it will be processed so slowly that it’s going to be ridiculously painful to use. You say that most programs won’t use these features? :rolleyes way to make an excuse. So you are telling me that just because Apple has integrated an easy to use API that allows a programmer to add eye candy to their app that they won’t use it. Right. I call BS on that one.

Besides for the most part I'm willing to bet that the Radeon 9200 is going to support almost all of the CoreImage functions if you choose to use it in your programs.

Now who didn’t read Apple’s site. Go back to apple.com/macosx/ and READ what happens when you don’t have one of the listed GPU’s.

It's just a basic rule of thumb, if you want professional level tools, then you need to use a professional level platform. You just might find a couple of transforms will take a second or two longer to render. I don't know where you got the idea that CoreImage is an all or nothing thing. Well, probably from the same place that you are getting all your other misinformation from.

If I were you I would do some reading, ask some intelligent questions, and then complain when you have some substance. Jim

Jim you are about as dense as a neutron star. You seem to be the one who doesn’t get it. Core Image isn’t just for the programmer. It’s an API. You do understand that an API is there to give developers new programming features that would normally have to be done through a very long and drawn out coding process. Core Image is going to spawn new programs and new features in existing programs. Programs that are going to be throttled on the mini because Apple is playing marketing games. Do you understand now? Or do I need to draw you a pretty picture in core image that renders sluggishly on the mini? Everyone thinks that Altivec is some sort of perfect patch whenever Apple does something wrong with their hardware. Lets all sit back and watch and see how bad this gets and how many people are going to start complaining when they start using CI programs and iTunes starts hiccupping on playback from the bottlenecking. As more and more programs take advantage of Core Image if the CPU really is doing all the heavy lifting you are going to see the CPU being taxed into the ground. Bet cash on that.

 

[bpd115]

Sorry, I'm not buying that. Do you honestly think Apple would only display a partial list of supported cards? There's no way that "include" here means "here's just a FEW of the supported cards! Really, there's lots more, but we just don't feel like listing them all." Nope. Include means, "Here's the cards that'll work with CoreImage." Cards that are NOT included, then, means they do NOT support CoreImage. Seems pretty straightforward to me. Apple doesn't do incomplete compatibility lists.

To all the CoreImage whiners out there: I, for one, don't really give a rip that my new iBook won't support it. This isn't another Quartz Extreme situation. It doesn't sound like your computer's going to take a performance hit. Just chill, and enjoy everything ELSE Tiger has to offer.

I don't buy it and I'll tell you why. The mobility radeon 9600 isn't included in the list. My 1st Gen Dual 2 Power Mac G5 has a 9600 (Not the XT listed)
My 1.33 12" Powerbook has a Go5200.

The weakest card is the Go5200 but it's the only one listed on the GPU list. You can not tell me that my 12" Powerbook will do all the cool fast coreimage things and my Dual 2.0 Ghz G5 won't nor will a 15" Powerbook with a Mobility 9600.


As for the person who just bought a mini and was told by the sales rep that it wouldn't ripple...well, they are sales reps. The 9200 has programmable pixel shaders and I bet will work just fine with core image....I'll find out for sure when I Put Tiger on my Fiance's Mini.

It would be nice if someone with a developer's build who's tried out Tiger on the mini chimed in

 

[MacNemesis]

It would be nice if someone with a developer's build who's tried out Tiger on the mini chimed in

Wanna buy me one? I take donations.

But seriously. It's unlikely you'll get any ADC people to say because we are still technically under NDA until it ships.

 

[VanNess]

I'm sure apple has thrown in some intensive stuff, just for the 'awe-factor' in its pro-line (like the ripple effect).

I wonder why everyone assumes the "ripple effect" is a core image effect, since it can currently be seen as a transition effect in iPhoto 5 slide shows and is also used in World Book.

 

[bankshot]

Bull****. Do you actually think Apple didn’t know what the specs were for CI last fall? Or more accurately knew what the specs were when they decided on the mini's GPU? This is a god damn marketing game pure and simple. They intentionally crippled the mini so they can come out with another mini (Prob at WWDC.) that lo and behold supports core image.

Dude, it sounds like you need to take off the tinfoil hat and put away the conspiracy theories. A couple of points that you've completely ignored in your tirade:

1. The Mac mini is a low end machine.
2. It still supports CoreImage, just not GPU accelerated.
3. The only apps that will need GPU acceleration of CoreImage in the near future are high end apps. Like realtime video editing. Or high end games.
4. These high end apps need a high end machine. Did you really think you were going to be doing realtime video effects on Apple's lowest end offering? Or playing Doom 5? If so, what were you smoking? If you needed this, you should have bought a Power Mac.
5. If Apple is including some glitz and eye candy for machines with GPU-accelerated CoreImage (we don't seem to have confirmed that yet, but there's plenty of evidence suggesting it - ie, Dashboard ripple effect) and you absolutely HAD to have that eye candy, you should have bought a Power Mac. (is there an echo in here?)

Why is it so difficult to believe that the current GPU in the mini is there because anything more would have brought the cost up? Apple's targeting the low end market here, any shaving of cost is a benefit in that market.


Actually, you know, you're right. I was wrong. Apple could have included a dual G5, 2 GB memory, 500 GB hard drive, Radeon X800, etc into the mini for $200 and change. They didn't do this because they wanted to screw over their customers and laugh all the way to the bank!

 

[skinsfan00atg]

I wonder why everyone assumes the "ripple effect" is a core image effect, since it can currently be seen as a transition effect in iPhoto 5 slide shows and is also used in World Book.

That's just what Apple themselves told me. I'm only reporting what they said to help people out. Also, I talked to Sales Reps AND tech support people. The sales reps contacted their tech resources and reported back to me. Just wanted to let people know. We need someone with a Mini and a tiger build!!!! ANYONE OUT THERE??? I thought someone made a post...

 

[jim.]

Yes I have better things to do like complain about Apple knowingly and intentionally neutering their low end hardware for the sake of a future sale. That is Microsoft tactics and pretty damn slimy AFAIC.

Do you know what an API is? Are you even a graphics programmer? Are you going to be doing hardcore video or image editing on your mini? This is the target for CoreImage,

Umm no it isn’t. What the heck do you think and API is anyways? I'd suggest you do some READING before you comment.




Oh THAT'S a good example. First off their supercomputer platform and the desktop have nothing in common. Wouldn’t even RUN on an x86 platform. Better example would be running Windows Server 2003 on a desktop? Can it be done? Yep. In fact I’m doing it at home. Simple point that is passing over your head at Mach 5: Apple actively designed the mini to not support ALL of Tiger’s features in a meaningful way. (How many times do I have to say this before it sinks in and people get a clue?) Yes I’m aware that Core Image will be processed through the CPU. Bet cash that it will be processed so slowly that it’s going to be ridiculously painful to use. You say that most programs won’t use these features? :rolleyes way to make an excuse. So you are telling me that just because Apple has integrated an easy to use API that allows a programmer to add eye candy to their app that they won’t use it. Right. I call BS on that one.



Now who didn’t read Apple’s site. Go back to apple.com/macosx/ and READ what happens when you don’t have one of the listed GPU’s.



Jim you are about as dense as a neutron star. You seem to be the one who doesn’t get it. Core Image isn’t just for the programmer. It’s an API. You do understand that an API is there to give developers new programming features that would normally have to be done through a very long and drawn out coding process. Core Image is going to spawn new programs and new features in existing programs. Programs that are going to be throttled on the mini because Apple is playing marketing games. Do you understand now? Or do I need to draw you a pretty picture in core image that renders sluggishly on the mini? Everyone thinks that Altivec is some sort of perfect patch whenever Apple does something wrong with their hardware. Lets all sit back and watch and see how bad this gets and how many people are going to start complaining when they start using CI programs and iTunes starts hiccupping on playback from the bottlenecking. As more and more programs take advantage of Core Image if the CPU really is doing all the heavy lifting you are going to see the CPU being taxed into the ground. Bet cash on that.

Ok, I see you're more interested in name calling and insulting than discussion, so whatever. I'll try anyway. Yes I know what an API is, see my above post, and please read what I wrote you. I truly do feel sorry for you if you won't see excessive eye-candy, or won't be utilizing the really cool video transforms in your top-of-the-lline studio. I do recall that lower end PCs need to turn off eyecandy in WinXP to get good response, and can just passably do the basic form of video editing. So what's your point with that? How many CI intensive apps are you planning on running at the same time?? Again, on a mini??? Even on high end stuff, doing a lot of graphical transforms at once is going to bring the system to a crawl, gpu or cpu. I mean, that is just common sense. If a developer is putting in long strings of eyecandy that are consistently sucking cpu power, would you really want that app?

As far as the GPUs on the site, we don't know if they are inclusive. In fact they are different than the ones posted earlier (before optimization should have taken place). Typically in an library, if emulation, or alternate path, is required for certain functions, then it is applied as needed at the low level. It's not all-inclusive. But you knew that right? The funny thing is that we are both arguing about it, and neither of us has called Apple (well, I'm pretty sure you will claim to have, obviously) to see what is really happening and how CI is supported. Oh yeah, I looked at the Apple site again, just to be sure I didn't miss anything. Where does it say that CI is all or nothing? Nowhere? Not really, they kind of hint that you could be right, but then when they talk about Image units and transforms in the body of the text, it doesn't sound that way.

It's just sad how you just want to complain and insult others on the site, just to prove your point that you want to be a spoiled brat who always gets his way (yep, that's maturity on my part, but come on....). All I did was try to point out that maybe you won't be missing much with CI on your mini, and it isn't worth wasting all this space on the forum. I will admit it may not have been the best way to do it, but that is all. I mean if you really like your mini, you'll probably move up to pro line in a year or two right?

Can we both grow up and end this now? You pick really nerdy metaphors to refer to me. I didn't realize my own physical strength was enough to carry a neutron star on my head. Maybe I can break my lab bench in half .... nope.

Jim

 

[bpd115]

Wanna buy me one? I take donations.

But seriously. It's unlikely you'll get any ADC people to say because we are still technically under NDA until it ships.

Well you can say without saying...by saying something like "The 9200 does have programmable pixel shaders "

 

[MacPhreak]

That's just what Apple themselves told me. I'm only reporting what they said to help people out. Also, I talked to Sales Reps AND tech support people. The sales reps contacted their tech resources and reported back to me. Just wanted to let people know. We need someone with a Mini and a tiger build!!!! ANYONE OUT THERE??? I thought someone made a post...

My experience with Apple Tech support and sales reps has made me very wary of what they tell me. If it ain't on the Apple page, or from the people who actually engineered it, I'm not going to believe it until I see it myself. Some examples of why:

The campus rep said he would get me a copy of Panther if I bought Jag and Panther came out within a month. He didn't.

When my iPod was delivered 1 day before the new ones came out this past summer, I called Apple Tech support on two different occasions to see about returning & trading up, and neither individual had known ANYTHING about the new iPods until they came into work that morning.

The local Apple rep @ our only local reseller is about worthless. On many, many occasions, I have been in and asked him questions about hardware, only to find out that I knew more about it than he did, and that he had no clue, absolutely none, when it came to un-released gear. Rumor sites know more than he does, and are right more often. He also didn't know if adding RAM voided the mini's warranty. This town needs an Apple store very badly, b/c, IMHO, he's not representing the company very well.

I would trust the word of the software or hardware engineers, because they are the ones that know without a shadow of a doubt, but they are so buried under NDA's that it just isn't going to happen.

I guess the point of this little tirade is that until Tiger is released, we just won't know. And I honestly can't see them degrading the performance of the mini, as some have suggested. At the very, very least, the mini should retain 100% of its speed, functionality, etc, from Panther, otherwise Apple would have some very dissatisfied customers on its hands, and a possible class action suit. Remember the suit that Apple settled with people who owned original G3's and bought OS X?

 

[jim.]

Well you can say without saying...by saying something like "The 9200 does have programmable pixel shaders "

Yeah that is what is odd. I guess it depends on how programmable the shaders are with the gpu. I don't follow graphics card development, so I don't know what functions get added from revision to revision, and I don't plan on disassembling Tiger's CoreImage libs to see what low level stuff is called.

Someone stated earlier that some effects are not going to be seen with the mini's 9200. I take this to mean that not all effects will be put on the gpu if you have a mini or ibook.

Jim

 

[Cooknn]

My 1st Gen Dual 2 Power Mac G5 has a 9600 (Not the XT listed)

I called Apple on this yesterday. The ATI Radeon 9600 Pro that came with the 1st Gen Dual 2 Power Mac G5 is supported by Core Image and is not on the list.

From ATI's Website:

RADEON® 9600 PRO brings the most detailed 3D worlds to life with highly programmable cinematic shaders, geometry and texture engines.

The list of core image capable graphics cards on apple.com is not limited to those cards listed. It includes those cards listed.

 

[fronheiser]

Sorry I don't feel sorry for anyone who buys something before upgrades, sales, rebates, etc. NO MATTER WHAT THE PRODUCT.

I went to Circuit City and bought a 1GB Flash card for my camera, 3 days later that same Flash card went on sale for 25$ less, complain? Nope because I have enough common sense to know I bought it before the sale.

I went into a clothing store and bought 3 shirts at 50$ apiece. 1 Week later the same shirts were 2 for 50$, whine and rant? Nope I went in and got two more because I have too much class to be whiner.

I bought a new car in September of the year, 2 weeks later next years models showed up on the lot completely re-designed and slightly cheaper, picket outside the dealership and call the local news station? No, was happy with my new car because I don't want to go through life complaing about what I don't have when some people in the world have NOTHING.

Be happy for what you have instead of wanting what you don't and blaming others for it.

Most places like Circuit City will allow you to go in and show them the receipt and will refund the difference.

 

[cgc]

Sorry, I'm not buying that. Do you honestly think Apple would only display a partial list of supported cards? There's no way that "include" here means "here's just a FEW of the supported cards! Really, there's lots more, but we just don't feel like listing them all." Nope. Include means, "Here's the cards that'll work with CoreImage." Cards that are NOT included, then, means they do NOT support CoreImage. Seems pretty straightforward to me. Apple doesn't do incomplete compatibility lists.

To all the CoreImage whiners out there: I, for one, don't really give a rip that my new iBook won't support it. This isn't another Quartz Extreme situation. It doesn't sound like your computer's going to take a performance hit. Just chill, and enjoy everything ELSE Tiger has to offer.

Reread the Apple page...it said "Core Image-capable graphics cards include: ATI Mobility Radeon 9700, ATI Radeon 9600 XT, 9800 XT, X800 XT, nVidia GeForce FX Go 5200, nVidia GeForce FX 5200 Ultra, nVidia GeForce, 6800 Ultra DDL, 6800 GT DDL" If this were all the cards supported, Apple would say "Core Image-capable graphics cares are:" To say "include" implies this is a short list of cards that are supported. Now, remember Quartz Extreme didn't support PCI cards, there is a workaround for this, maybe there will be a workaround that allows older cards to assist the CPU in some way.

 

[cgc]

Most places like Circuit City will allow you to go in and show them the receipt and will refund the difference.

They have to do this or people would return the item, then purchase it at sale price. This way the store doesn't have used items. Win-win.

 

[kd0tc0m]

Questions I want answered...

Tiger has now been "spotted"... yip-ee!

But, I want these questions answered. Maybe even to see if they will come with Tiger at the end of the month:

1. iTunes Version 4.8 or 5.0?

2. If you have purchased a MacMini - will you get a free upgrade? For the folks they "converted" I would think this would be a very SMART move. No need to piss off the new comers to the Apple Community right off the bat.

3. Widgets - who can make them? Where can I get information on how to build my own Widget?

4. And, of course, I'll shut up about Hardware. I'll just wait for NAB before I start questioning "HD" products.

 

[SteveC]

If you have purchased a MacMini - will you get a free upgrade? For the folks they "converted" I would think this would be a very SMART move. No need to piss off the new comers to the Apple Community right off the bat.

Answer: No.

Reason: Panther is what they paid for and received. If they wanted Tiger for free (or at a discount), they should've bought a Mac mini after Tiger was announced. I understand your point, but seriously, you're expecting Apple to spend a TON of money to do something they're not obligated to do, nor should they, because people got what they paid for. They could have read my signature months ago (see link in my signature) to know they should have waited if they wanted Tiger for free. I've been waiting 2 months to buy a new iMac so I can get a Rev B and Tiger for free.

New comers will not be "pissed off" as you say. They'll be happy Mac users with a very capable and powerful (awesome) Panther operating system who can buy Tiger if they need its extra features.

People who buy late 2004 model cars don't get the new dashboard in the 2005 model for free.

As for your question 3, Oh, you'll be happy about this one. Anyone who knows HTML can make a widget. Here's info:
http://developer.apple.com/macosx/tiger/dashboard.html

"Create your own widgets. Transitions, animation and visual effects are just a few of the amazing visual feats that make widgets as eye-popping as they are useful. Because widgets are based on the same popular technologies used to create web pages — HTML, Javascript and CSS — you can extend them to take advantage of many Tiger technologies, including Core Image."

 

[IanC]

I'm going to be blunt about this: Apple is no better then Microsoft.

And you just sound like a MS Fanboy.

 

[eric_n_dfw]

I'd be willing to bet that Apple has optimized the CPU based Core Image code to give acceptable performance on all shipping hardware. Can we please wait until someone has a chance to actually use the damn thing before leveling allegations of nefarius conspiracies about Apple's marketting teams?

I'd also be willing to bet it will run well on any machine sold with a fast G4.

The thing I'd most like to see is how much the slow hard drive in the mini (and iBook) effects things like spotlight and the loading of dashboard widgets quickly.

Think about it for a minute, the only people who are going to buy 10.4 are people with Macs already (since new machines come bundled with it); if it sucks on the majority of the existing machines in use then it wouldn't sell very well now would it? The Mini has a more capable video card than many of those in targeted 10.4 customer base.

All of the things you see in the list of core image effects are done today by the CPU(s) in Final Cut Pro HD and it can do a hell of a lot of them in real time. And I'm pretty sure it's doing DV decompression/re-compression at the same time via QuickTime so you can see those effects on the FireWire bus (i.e.: via a preview monitor hooked to your camcorder)

Another thing people haven't mentioned in this thread is that 10.4 is using gcc 4 (the compiler that the OS and applications are built with) The whole OS may run faster and/or leaner just because of that.

 

[kd0tc0m]

Answer: No.

Reason: Panther is what they paid for and received. If they wanted Tiger for free (or at a discount), they should've bought a Mac mini after Tiger was announced. I understand your point, but seriously, you're expecting Apple to spend a TON of money to do something they're not obligated to do, nor should they, because people got what they paid for.

I agree with what you have to say. Especially the ref for the new car model.

Though, many switchers are not attached to the industry like the forum-savy posters like us. Most even just bought the mac mini because it was the "cool thing to buy after your iPod". I'm still curious to see the new numbers of converted Mac Mini owners AFTER purchasing a iPod. Just because they buy a Mac Mini doesn't mean they knew tiger was coming.

Just because they are not obligated, doesn't mean they shouldn't look into rention. I see it as, "Hey Apple, you just switched a million folks and they say if you don't provide a free upgrade they will stay stagnant for years to come. If you get them tiger for free (or at a discount), you'll lock 50% or more to continue buying from your company." (Numbers pulled out of thin air to make a vague point) I believe an OS can have that much influence. How many folks are still stuck in OS 9? I met a hand few today at the store that were. (I almost sheeted in my pants)

Besides, I realize Micro$oft doesn't do this, but just cause it hasn't been done doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

Good points though, I just wish Apple would come out and state it on their FAQ page for Tiger.

As for the ref url for widgets, I can't wait to get started.

 

[Hemingray]

Reread the Apple page...it said "Core Image-capable graphics cards include: ATI Mobility Radeon 9700, ATI Radeon 9600 XT, 9800 XT, X800 XT, nVidia GeForce FX Go 5200, nVidia GeForce FX 5200 Ultra, nVidia GeForce, 6800 Ultra DDL, 6800 GT DDL" If this were all the cards supported, Apple would say "Core Image-capable graphics cares are:" To say "include" implies this is a short list of cards that are supported. Now, remember Quartz Extreme didn't support PCI cards, there is a workaround for this, maybe there will be a workaround that allows older cards to assist the CPU in some way.

This boils down to how Apple defines the usage of "includes". It's possible that they didn't include all of the cards in the list, but then I've got to ask why. There's certainly no LACK of room—they could easily expand that table. And then there's all the CoreImage specs on the left; once again, they've used the term "includes." Yet here there are a TON of features listed.

Again, I don't think Apple is one to withhold specs; if a card fully supports a latest-and-greatest technology, you know they're gonna flaunt it! Oh well, guess we'll all be finding out soon enough...

 

[iGary]

Originally Posted by SiliconAddict

I'm going to be blunt about this: Apple is no better then Microsoft.

Troll

 

[jim.]

And you just sound like a MS Fanboy.

Actually he is right in many ways, just not really with his current argument. All companies act similarly, but that is another thread.

Jim

 

[bpd115]

Now lets talk about Quartz2D Extreme...

someone on the MacNN Forums stated it wasn't enabled by default in the build of tiger he had and he enabled it via developer tools and tiger simply flew...

I understand you need a Radeon 9600 or better or an FX5200 or better for Q2DExtreme....

Discuss.