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Tiger Build 8A294 Seeded To Developers

mfessenden said:
I thought Tiger was a 64-bit OS? Is that not true?
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Tiger is 64-bit, and also has 32-bit support. 🙂 It will install which ever version if your HW will not support one or the other.


If you have a 64-bit chip it will install the 64-bit packet if you have a 32-bit chip it will install the 32-bit packet.
 
well it seems like june is much more likely now, but i'm all for it if it means that we get a more complete, perfect tiger to play with. There won't be any excuses for any bugs etc if they've left it right to the end june. (The end of the time frame that Steve gave us for its release) I just hope it isn't too pricey.
Surely it can't be any more than $129/£99?
 
Windowlicker said:
I tried out this (on panther) and it works just fine for me :Q weird.
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Works great under panther for me as well. Where is the problem? 😕
 
wileypen said:
OS X is getting like Microsoft Word - just keep pilin' on them features no matter how obscure or unnecessary, and usability suffers.
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So Panther is less usable than Jaguar? In what regards, may I ask?

I've found every upgrade WELL worth it, and this sounds like the biggest and best yet. And that's saying something: Exposé, the Finder sidebar, and Fast Switching alone were enough to make Panther a big improvement in my day-to-day productivity.

Some people like the Windows model of "slight changes... eventually... with big problems." But OS X is a new OS--and so faster improvement is a fact of life.

Nobody forces you to upgrade, though, if that improvement bothers you and you don't want the major new features of Tiger. Apple's still releasing fixes for BOTH Panther and Jaguar, and your current apps will keep right on working with your current OS and hardware.
 
mfessenden said:
I thought Tiger was a 64-bit OS? Is that not true?
Click to expand...

I think it will have 64 bit extensions and support more so than Panther.. but there is no way that Tiger is going to be exclusively 64 bit since there are too many G3 / G4 owners.

I don't think Apple are even that stupid to not support existing 32 bit machines (however, I do wonder sometimes, I really do).
 
Stella said:
I think it will have 64 bit extensions and support more so than Panther.. but there is no way that Tiger is going to be exclusively 64 bit since there are too many G3 / G4 owners.

I don't think Apple are even that stupid to not support existing 32 bit machines (however, I do wonder sometimes, I really do).
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This has been asked numerous times. Look no farther than you local Apple website and check out the "Tiger Preview" option it will explain to you as to why it IS a 64-bit OS. 😀
 
jet3004 said:
Has MacRumors lost some of it's credibility? News has been not only late, but nothing really exlusive and taken from AppleInsider or ThinkSecret?
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MR's excellent reputation has always been based on TWO very valuable things:

1. They have good sources. Sometimes unique and exclusive, sometimes not. The amount of really good hard info that trickles out of Apple is less these days, though, and that affects all rumor sites.

2. Maybe more importantly, they are a very good judge of what OTHER reports say. Even if a rumor appears first elsewhere, MR's Page 1 stamp of approval on it tends to mean something.
 
Installed yesterday, upgrade over Panther, still waiting for the login window to appear. That's 28 hours now.

They weren't kidding when they said it took a while if you installed it that way.
 
Old hat, I think there is a 8A3xx build now. All these builds still don't play nice with key software like macromedia products.
 
m a y a said:
This has been asked numerous times. Look no farther than you local Apple website and check out the "Tiger Preview" option it will explain to you as to why it IS a 64-bit OS. 😀
Click to expand...
Yup. See here. Ah... fat binaries... brings back memories....
 
Suddenly the builds are emerging. After the WWDC build, it was a long time very quiet. But suddenly last week build nr. 8A268 emerged, and this weekend build nr. 8A294.
IMHO Tiger is getting "Beta status".

It could be that every two weeks orso, new builds will be seeded! Just like the Panther betas.

It's fun talking about these new build. Find out the new features and bugs 😀
 
Does anyone know if performance will be speeded up on G3/G4 machines? If so, what sort of boost would it be?
 
richard5mith said:
Installed yesterday, upgrade over Panther, still waiting for the login window to appear. That's 28 hours now.

They weren't kidding when they said it took a while if you installed it that way.
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28 hours... 1 week... one month is nothing. Most people are probably going to have to wait until June of 2005. I just keep sitting on front of my G5 waiting for Tiger to appear in a press release for an actual shipping date.

I bet it's some permissions problem on your end.
 
tom.96 said:
Does anyone know if performance will be speeded up on G3/G4 machines? If so, what sort of boost would it be?
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To be honest, I don't think there will be alot of difference. The major speed boosts like 10.0 >> 10.1 and 10.1 >> 10.2 are shrinking IHMO. The difference between 10.2 and 10.3 wasn't that huge, and I assume that the biggest speed advantages for 10.4 will be in CoreImage.
CoreImage, unfortunately, is only compatible with the latest grfx cards. I.e. the biggest boost will be for all G5's and G4's with Radeon 9700 or 9800.
 
"Apple has said that Tiger would be available in the first half of 2005, and TS is now claiming that it should be expected on or around wwdc05, in late June."

Just as I initially predicted - when Jobs said availble in the "first half of '05", he's going to wait until the very end of that "first half" to release it. Not surprising, although I know lots of people will want it sooner of course. Ah well, Panther's running just fine for me, and I'm still not sure if I'm going to upgrade or not...
 
Photorun said:
What with all but the portables being G5 by the time it's released (yes, eMacs soon to be too) it'd be nice to have X sail using mostly 64 bit. I'd even be willing to have one OS built for G4 and another built for G5 just so us G5 owners can finally take off the fuel governer and charge ahead full blast with 64 bit goodness, REALLY bringing our favorite forum word "snappy" to new heights.
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I love how the term "64-bit" is thrown around as if it's some magical feature that'll double your computer's speed and cook your breakfast too. It's not (and it' won't).

First, you can already use 64 bit math (double precision floating point, 64-bit ints) in any program you like now. Any processor back to the G3 and before can do it. It'll be a bit more efficient on a G5 since the cpu supports it natively, but not overwhelmingly so. The vast, vast majority of software doesn't (and has no need to) use 64-bit math. Mostly scientific software will benefit, and probably already uses it!

Second, making Tiger "64-bit" will not magically speed up your G5. If everything in Tiger were 64-bit, you'd probably slow things down. Maybe even noticeably so. Remember, that means pushing around twice as much data for every operation.

The primary benefit to 64-bit support is allowing single processes to use more than 4 GB of memory. Again, this doesn't speed anything up, it just allows things to run that previously would have died when they ran out of memory. Except possibly in the rare case where a program that hit the 4 GB limit was smart enough to use temporary files on disk to keep going past that, but I don't know of many that do (maybe Photoshop? anyone??). In that case, assuming you have more than 4 GB in your machine to begin with, then yes, it'll speed up that one program by allowing it to access more physical ram.

But again, the primary area where this is useful is in scientific computing. I sometimes run some huge processing jobs at work that blast through the 4 GB memory barrier. I have to run them on slower Suns or SGIs because our G5 will kill those jobs under Panther. Tiger will be a welcome update, allowing me to run them on a much faster machine, utilizing more memory.

For most consumer applications, we're probably still a year or three off from that 32-bit limit becoming a major problem. And of course, there are 32-bit machines out there which have pushed the problem back a few more years by allowing 36-bit memory access, etc. Heck, from what I remember, doesn't the G5 limit memory addressing to something along these lines (36 or 40 bits)? It still does 64-bit computations natively of course.

m a y a said:
Tiger is 64-bit, and also has 32-bit support. 🙂 It will install which ever version if your HW will not support one or the other.
Click to expand...

This doesn't quite sound right from everything I've read. I'm pretty sure there will be only one install of Tiger, supporting both 32-bit and 64-bit. Perhaps 64-bit support will be optional on non-G5 machines, but certainly not the other way around. Aside from the kernel, most of the work in supporting 64-bit processes comes in making 64-bit versions of all the various libraries and frameworks. If your application uses 64-bit memory pointers, any library it calls will also have to accept them. I imagine this part is no small task, but ultimately it should be completely transparent to the user. A 32-bit application will use 32-bit versions of libraries at runtime, and same for 64-bit.

Anyway, please correct me if I got anything a little wrong! 😉
 
tom.96 said:
Does anyone know if performance will be speeded up on G3/G4 machines? If so, what sort of boost would it be?
Click to expand...

Tom, there will be a marginally speed bump on a G3 and G4 system when comparing Panther and Tiger.

CoreImage will scale down however you will not have all the spiffy thingy-ma-jiggy effects for live screen manipulation unless you have the minimum Apple Loved Nvide VCard.

meaning everything will work with less effects. Same as fast user switching with the rotating effects of the screen.

So hold on tight, marginally faster is always better than nothing. 😀
 
bankshot said:
I love how the term "64-bit" is thrown around as if it's some magical feature that'll double your computer's speed and cook your breakfast too. It's not (and it' won't).

First, you can already use 64 bit math (double precision floating point, 64-bit ints) in any program you like now. Any processor back to the G3 and before can do it. It'll be a bit more efficient on a G5 since the cpu supports it natively, but not overwhelmingly so. The vast, vast majority of software doesn't (and has no need to) use 64-bit math. Mostly scientific software will benefit, and probably already uses it!

Second, making Tiger "64-bit" will not magically speed up your G5. If everything in Tiger were 64-bit, you'd probably slow things down. Maybe even noticeably so. Remember, that means pushing around twice as much data for every operation.

The primary benefit to 64-bit support is allowing single processes to use more than 4 GB of memory. Again, this doesn't speed anything up, it just allows things to run that previously would have died when they ran out of memory. Except possibly in the rare case where a program that hit the 4 GB limit was smart enough to use temporary files on disk to keep going past that, but I don't know of many that do (maybe Photoshop? anyone??). In that case, assuming you have more than 4 GB in your machine to begin with, then yes, it'll speed up that one program by allowing it to access more physical ram.

But again, the primary area where this is useful is in scientific computing. I sometimes run some huge processing jobs at work that blast through the 4 GB memory barrier. I have to run them on slower Suns or SGIs because our G5 will kill those jobs under Panther. Tiger will be a welcome update, allowing me to run them on a much faster machine, utilizing more memory.

For most consumer applications, we're probably still a year or three off from that 32-bit limit becoming a major problem. And of course, there are 32-bit machines out there which have pushed the problem back a few more years by allowing 36-bit memory access, etc. Heck, from what I remember, doesn't the G5 limit memory addressing to something along these lines (36 or 40 bits)? It still does 64-bit computations natively of course.



This doesn't quite sound right from everything I've read. I'm pretty sure there will be only one install of Tiger, supporting both 32-bit and 64-bit. Perhaps 64-bit support will be optional on non-G5 machines, but certainly not the other way around. Aside from the kernel, most of the work in supporting 64-bit processes comes in making 64-bit versions of all the various libraries and frameworks. If your application uses 64-bit memory pointers, any library it calls will also have to accept them. I imagine this part is no small task, but ultimately it should be completely transparent to the user. A 32-bit application will use 32-bit versions of libraries at runtime, and same for 64-bit.

Anyway, please correct me if I got anything a little wrong! 😉
Click to expand...

Please read the Apple site in reference to the "Tiger Preview". It is clear that they will use one package however it will do a HW scan to see if you have a 64 or 32-bit processor and install that packet. Its not going to go through the trouble of installing a 64-bit packet on a 32-bit chip what is the point.

So yes you will see a speed boost a marginally one for 32-bit and a significant one for 64-bit users. Lucky dogs. 😀
 
m a y a said:
And please people do not compare Dashboard to Konf, this is just getting to be a tired subject. 🙄

Konf uses javascript and Dashboard uses gadgets/widgets that are made with html and or CSS.
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The fact that you made this distinction tells us all you have no idea what you're talking about. You can't do real programming logic with html and CSS, only presentation logic (look and feel).
 
Sounds like Tiger is going to be both a vast improvement and reliable from the start. Rushing the completion date is worse in some ways than prolonging the release date slightly so that it works the way it was designed to work. It's not like Jaguar is a pain to use or anything, it works just fine. I am looking forward to the new features though, and them working properly.

MacRumors may not be the first to get a story, but posting on Apple Insider or just reading the posts there is not much fun. There is a serious lack of humor there.
 
how about a full screen capture? showing the desktop and a finder window or something different in the middle? i wanna see the spotlight bars etc. 😀
 
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