Tiger Build 8A294 Seeded To Developers

[~Shard~]

Or, God forbid, they could add a second mouse button to the next generation of PBs....

That's crazy talk! Quit talking crazy! You're crazy...

 

[magikpants]

64-bit? do you mean the OS itself, or application support?

Please read the Apple site in reference to the "Tiger Preview". It is clear that they will use one package however it will do a HW scan to see if you have a 64 or 32-bit processor and install that packet. Its not going to go through the trouble of installing a 64-bit packet on a 32-bit chip what is the point.

So yes you will see a speed boost a marginally one for 32-bit and a significant one for 64-bit users. Lucky dogs.

Hmmm....I don't see anything on that page that makes it clear that there will be a hardware scan to figure out what kind of processor you have. In fact, I don't see that it's clearly stated that this is a 64-bit OS. It supports the memory addressing for 64-bit apps, but the headline for the page is 64-bit Features, not THE WORLD'S FIRST 64-bit OS FOR THE DESKTOP!!!! which you know would be Apple's marketing route if they came up with a fully 64-bit OS.

At present, the ROI for creating a 64-bit OS would be awful. There are too many 32-bit machines out there, and they just asked their developers 4 years ago to totally rewrite their apps for OSX. They wouldn't ask them to adopt an entirely different architecture that soon. Moving to true 64-bit is a huge deal. Look at the first gen Itanium chips. They were pure 64-bit chips. Their OS was pure 64-bit. Intel took a huge hit for that though, and had to put a 32-bit emulator in the Itanium-2.

Small developers would be seriously peeved if they had to rewrite their entire code for a program to make it work on a G5. So, the main kernel and the G5 itself are hybrid. They can run 32-bit and 64-bit. For Tiger, the kernel will be similar to Panther in that respect, though a bit tweaked (still based on BSD 5, but 5.x this go round). It's still primarily a 32-bit app, but it supports 64-bit apps, and this go round the OS will get more of a speed bump if you throw more than 2Gb of RAM in it.

But, if you're throwing more than 2Gb of RAM in your machine, the main thing that you'll be peeved about is not the fact that the OS is not 64-bit, but is the fact that there are very few apps out there that are 64-bit. Who cares if the finder is just a little bit faster when you have 3Gbs of RAM in your G5? If you have 3Gbs of RAM, you better have some serious video or audio programs or scientific cluster apps to test it out on, because 64-bit mail will not be able to type what you want it to say before you touch the keyboard - and that's about the only way to seriously speed up mail at this point (besides increasing your bandwidth).

So, if you want a 64-bit OS, you'll have to wait, but if you have some crazy role in breaking your own genome, Tiger will give you the ability to support apps that will break that code. People have asked that since the G5 came out: will this be the 64-bit OS? This question means next to nothing unless you are willing to shell out for more than 2Gb of RAM and unless you have 64-bit apps. This is not a 64-bit OS, but it will support 64-bit apps (which Panther already did, but mainly for highly specialized scientific programs) and will encourage 64-bit app development in XCode 2.0 for apps that are RAM intensive (audio/video and number crunching apps).

There is only one kernel that is installed, which is 32-bit, but it will have a 64-bit libSystem file for 64-bit machines. But don't expect a 64-bit version of iLife anytime soon, and when it does come, please make fun of Apple for wasting a huge amount of money for making an app 64-bit that doesn't need to be.

So, to address the point made in the post I quoted, G5 users will not find the Tiger OS too much faster than Panther (at least not much faster than Panther was over Jaguar), but they will find that 64-bit versions of apps (when you can find them) will be much faster than their 32-bit predecessors. But, if you want to get more than 2Gb of memory, go right ahead - just don't expect Spotlight to run any faster when you do.

 

[guifa]

The keyboard menu has an interesting new look, although I'm still debating whether or not I like it. It has a gray block with a white character supposedly to represent the language. But if Icelandic, which uses the Roman script, has ð as its defining character, and Turkish, also Roman, has g-caron, but Spanish, for instance, just as a, instead ñ. Would seem French would need ç, or Portuguese ã, or German ß etc. All of those just have a.

As well, Character Palette has changed once again.

SSL connexions are still disabled. Safari is unable to connect to HTTPS pages, nor is iTunes able to connect to the iTMS. Was this way in the last beta.

 

[swissmann]

I'm still waiting for a good reason to justify upgrading. A lot of features but none that hook me yet. I also would like more focus to be put on squashing bugs rather than introducing new ones in new little features.

 

[maxvamp]

I'm still waiting for a good reason to justify upgrading. A lot of features but none that hook me yet. I also would like more focus to be put on squashing bugs rather than introducing new ones in new little features

Don't... If it ( Panther ) works for you, don't fix it.

I have several Jaguar machines that do what they are supposed to, and work well.

Max.

 

[Mac-Xpert]

I tried out this (on panther) and it works just fine for me :Q weird.

I checked it again, and I was actually wrong when I said that Panther ignores everything over the first typed number or letter, when selecting a file in the finder. It does however work different from Jaguar or Os-9. I now figured out that it does respond to the additional numbers but it won't jump to a file starting with for instance 18001-xxx when you only type 18. It doesn't see 18001 as starting with a 1 and 8 but only as whole number (18001), so I have to type the whole number to get it to jump to the right file. I guess Apple would say that it supposed to work like that, but I don't think it is very handy.

In our system most files have a Job-number that's something like 18001. So only having to type 18 to jump to that file is much easier and faster than having to type the whole number.

But this will probably not change in Tiger.

In sorry for being a bit off-topic..

 

[dicklacara]

Old hat, I think there is a 8A3xx build now. All these builds still don't play nice with key software like macromedia products.

What particulat MM Products are you having problems with?

I run several versions of ColdFusion MX and JRun 4 without any apparent problems.

Dick

 

[AmigoMac]

I just read more info about Tiger and the GUI changes and general modifications, I'll be very happy ordering the new cat OS as soon as I can.
next year will be another kickass year for apple and the mac crowd.

 

[g4cubed]

AppleInsider says today here that Safari for Tiger is going to support native PDF.

Finally! That's my No. 1 gripe about Safari is that it saves PDFs to the desktop and launches them in Preview instead of directly in Safari.

As to RSS support, I'll be curious to see whether it's any better than NetNewWire Lite, which, as far as I'm concerned, does everything I need it to do.

I have to agree with you on the No. 1 complain with Safari. It's a pain in the *** to have to open preview all the time.

 

[johnnyjibbs]

I have to agree with you on the No. 1 complain with Safari. It's a pain in the *** to have to open preview all the time.

Lets hope Safari gains Preview's fast rendering engine then. I would assume that it will.

 

[georgec]

I have to agree with you on the No. 1 complain with Safari. It's a pain in the *** to have to open preview all the time.

You guys should really check out the Schubert PDF plugin at http://www.schubert-it.com/pluginpdf/

It's completely changed my life since installing it! Agreed, having it built in to Safari will be great, but until next year.....

 

[devman]

you are right

You are right of course but give it up. I've tried before to get people here to see this but they just don't want to. See some of my replies in this thread https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/90777/

This is in reply to magikpants #77

 

[NeoMayhem]

Screenshot for you, I cant make it any bigger and still have it less then 100k to upload here, sorry.

 

[wdlove]

Screenshot for you, I cant make it any bigger and still have it less then 100k to upload here, sorry.

That's too bad. I had to use a magnifying glass just so that I could make out 10.4 pre-release. Thanks for the effort.

 

[g4cubed]

You guys should really check out the Schubert PDF plugin at http://www.schubert-it.com/pluginpdf/

It's completely changed my life since installing it! Agreed, having it built in to Safari will be great, but until next year.....

Thanks, I'll check it out here in a bit.

 

[Punani]

So, the main kernel and the G5 itself are hybrid. They can run 32-bit and 64-bit. For Tiger, the kernel will be similar to Panther in that respect, though a bit tweaked (still based on BSD 5, but 5.x this go round).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the 64-bit instructions to the POWER instruction set an add-on? Not some tacked 64-bit extensions, but a real 64-bit instruction set. And applications that can properly exploit the 64-bit instructions do so, 32-bit applications just don't "see" the instructions. It's just like MIPS.

I'm not sure if the kernel is going to be a hybrid, it took SGI a good 5 to 7 years to make the move from 32-bit to a full 64-bit OS, so I wouldn't be surprised as it's a "bit" obnoxious to move everything over, and we may not see full 64-bit integration until 10.7, depending on when Apple chooses to release future revisions. However, XNU--the kernel is based off CMU Mach 3, with the BSD layer. I am unsure to the importance of saying that it uses 5.x this time, as it's still the same basic source tree...

 

[Rincewind42]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the 64-bit instructions to the POWER instruction set an add-on? Not some tacked 64-bit extensions, but a real 64-bit instruction set. And applications that can properly exploit the 64-bit instructions do so, 32-bit applications just don't "see" the instructions. It's just like MIPS.

The PowerPC instruction set is actually a 64-bit instruction set. There is a 32-bit subset that up until the PPC970 was all that was implemented in mainstream PowerPC chips. The PowerPC was always meant to be a 64-bit architecture.

I'm not sure if the kernel is going to be a hybrid, it took SGI a good 5 to 7 years to make the move from 32-bit to a full 64-bit OS, so I wouldn't be surprised as it's a "bit" obnoxious to move everything over, and we may not see full 64-bit integration until 10.7, depending on when Apple chooses to release future revisions. However, XNU--the kernel is based off CMU Mach 3, with the BSD layer. I am unsure to the importance of saying that it uses 5.x this time, as it's still the same basic source tree...

The Mac OS X kernel is 64-bits, it does all memory addressing in a 64-bit memory space. This is required for using the 970 among other things. The user space is limited to 32-bit addressing (which is changing with Tiger). However most of the frameworks in Tiger will still be limited to the 32-bit environment. At some point in the future most of these frameworks may become 64-bit enabled, but that future is probably a few versions away (as you say). But then again, Apple could be planning this for as soon as 10.5.

 

[MacSA]

Seems like a long time away still.

I like the new features that have been proposed, but it remains to be seen if they can deliver on everything. Of course I have more faith in Tiger than I do in Longhorn!

If it is released at the end of June, by that time I bet all of Apples new range of computers will have hardware to fully exploit what Tiger will have to offer - eMacs and iBooks.

 

[maxvamp]

Intel has a clean architecture ready to move into the desktop space....

I have a HP Itanic sitting not 15 feet from me.... It is not as you described. Actually, it makes a nice, but noisy space heater...

Itanium cons....

- VERY little software written for it
- X86 software runs as if it was running on a 200 MHz pentium ( emulated )
- Very Expensive ( $8k for HP Base Unit sitting here )

Itanic Pros
- Fastest Math out there
- 64-bit addressing


Sorry, Itanuim is not on the fast track to be adopted.

Max.

 

[guifa]

The keyboard menu has an interesting new look, although I'm still debating whether or not I like it. It has a gray block with a white character supposedly to represent the language. But if Icelandic, which uses the Roman script, has ð as its defining character, and Turkish, also Roman, has g-caron, but Spanish, for instance, just as a, instead ñ. Would seem French would need ç, or Portuguese ã, or German ß etc. All of those just have a.

And here's the pic to go with it. They do tend to go with the gray-scale rules that Apple has for all things up there in the menu, yet, it just doesn't have the same feeling of the flags (though, the flags were not always present, sometimes odd icons). I think I like it, Windows-esque as it may be.

There's also more word orderings in International.

 

[rendezvouscp]

They really should use the flags. It makes the countries stand out more, and looks a lot better.

I really miss the two blue corners too. I didn't find it that distracting, and it actually looked pretty good when you are actually working with the OS (I didn't like how it looked on the WWDC preview stream).
-Chase

 

[cb911]

oohhhoo... kewl. another Tiger seed. this development sure is moving along... can't wait to see it released to us...

for all you sceptics - you just wait and see until you use Tiger, then i'm sure you'll be convinced of all these improvements.

 

[Mechcozmo]

No matter what, Tiger will be a great OS. 64 bit or not, I know that I will be upgrading to Tiger fairly soon after it is released. Not to say that Panther is bad. But Tiger will be a good OS.


I just feel bad for those still using 10.1, which is painful if you try and use it after months of Jaguar/Panther.

 

[wdlove]

They really should use the flags. It makes the countries stand out more, and looks a lot better.

I really miss the two blue corners too. I didn't find it that distracting, and it actually looked pretty good when you are actually working with the OS (I didn't like how it looked on the WWDC preview stream).
-Chase

I'm sure that over the next many months of work on Tiger, esthetic improvements will also be made. The flags would make a nicer appearance. I wonder which will be the first developer to make the first use of Tiger's 64 bit.

 

[reckless_0001]

Have all the people's Macs who are running the new Tiger builds crashed or they just all joined a new "I don't wanna share anything" club?