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Doctor Q said:
The question is whether or not Apple should include a graphical FTP application that can be used outside Terminal. Like you, I consider command-line FTP to be just fine for my purposes. We are talking about all those other users, who rely on graphical apps and only point and click.

Is FTP still that widely used among a non-tech crowd? I don't see it, but maybe there are still specific segments that I don't interact with.

About the only time I even use FTP any more is if I'm grabbing source code off a public server. Even then 90% of the time it's either an http stream or a direct CVS checkout.
 
stcanard said:
Is FTP still that widely used among a non-tech crowd?

You are correct, it is probably not that widely used outside of those of us who do some web design and toy around with open source software. However from my experience working for a software company I know we tend to try and meet the needs of technical users requests ahead of non-technical users because we can all easily relate to their needs. That may not be the way apple does business, but from my experience that is the way things go.
 
Mac OS X Tiger Finder, Sherlock, Expose Enhancements

Frankly, I would like to see a new and improved Finder just as good, or even better than Cocoatech.com's Path Finder with several new exciting features, a new and improved version of Sherlock which makes searching online dictionaries even easier and is more Watson like than Sherlock 3 is, see new enhancements to the Dock and Expose which enable users to magnify the Dock and use Expose simultaneously, customization being restored to the Apple Menu (at top of desktop) so the Dock, Desktop, and Apple Menu can all be customizable, all the new features in Mac OS X built for Mac OS 10.1 and above like (10.2) Jaguar's inclusion of IChat, Safari, QuickTime 6, Sherlock 3 etc, Panther features like updated IChat with the release of IChat AV, Expose, FileVault, new Finder, more .Mac enhancements in Panther than Jaguar all being included in future Mac OS releases after X like Mac OS 11, Mac OS 12 and above (future Mac OS releases as mentioned like OS 11 + etc) being included in the new Mac OS versions. No Macintosh operating system after X can exist without the Dock, Expose, or other features. When Mac OS 11.0 (like Mac OS 10.0) first ships (or Mac OS 11.1 if it is the first available version of Mac OS X for consumers that works well; in the event Mac OS 11 faces the same development hurdles as X did originally) make all these Mac OS X features available in future Mac OS releases along with lots more Mac OS 11 + specific features that cannot be found in Mac OS X and below). I also want to see Macintosh operating system becoming available in more language versions like Hindhi, Sanskrit, Panjabi (Panjubi need to check spelling; definately Hindhi and one more out of the two mentioned after it), more Macintosh Explorer friendly Finder whicch can work easily with Rage Software's Macintosh Explorer unique file management application that offers a Windows friendly interface to Macintosh so Microsoft Windows users familiar with Windows Explorer interested in switching to Mac can become more easily comfortable with Mac computers and making them feel right at home. Adding more enhanced features to the Finder and Sherlock could eventually lead to Path Finder and Watson's demise but by Apple adding more advanced features to Mac OS X that will make the operating system in itself better than before. One thing I would really like to see is Apple buying Virtual PC from Microsoft or making a rival product just as good as Virtual PC for Mac and bundling it into Mac OS X as it does with ITunes, IChat, ICal, ISync, IMovie, QuickTime, IDVD, IPhoto, Safari etc.
 
Spoken like a...

Michael Vance said:
Apple needs to adopt the URL style address structure system that Windows uses. Anything else seems quaintly archaic, as if today's users can't read and make sense of a URL, needing instead informationless windows with no indication of their place in the file structure.

Now, I'm only taking a slightly edgy tone here because of the somewhat weakly qualified descriptor 'quaintly archaic'... Other than the broad assumption that most users understand URIs, the motivation is good...

The above quoted was spoken like a person who has never had to provide technical support for a 1200-person business (or perhaps you didn't really mean that the feature should be the default behavior). Today's POWERusers CAN make sense of URL-style file navigation aids. The *average* user tends to be confused by the mere presence of such a superfluous tool. I've supported both PCs and Macs in both my current job as well as my previous job (similar size) and realized a long time ago that the average user needs to see as little excess text as possible. In user interface design, one must shy away from providing too much information for too little impact. If you are a programmer, try this experiment... on a status line at the bottom of your application's window, cause the program to display the message

"Action Taken- MouseOn leftButtonDown leftButtonUp MouseOff- This message is UNIMPORTANT, please ignore this message and do not call your tech support department"

What's the first thing they'll do? They'll call tech support. Tech departments love that kinda stuff. It's just the highlight of a tech's day to explain to someone for the 5 tetrazillionth time that "you should ignore that text as it does not benefit what they are trying to do and, oh, by the way, RememberThatTrainingWeSpentX-thousandDollarsOnForYou?ThatTextAndItsPurposeWasThoroughlyCoveredThere."

Now, let's assume you left out some details of how you wished this idea to be implemented... An excellent way to provide this feature would be as a Finder Preferences option that defaults to 'off'. That way, the minority can turn it on and the majority don't have to worry with something they don't need. The idea of design of computing for the masses necessitates removing the user's intellect from the equation and assuming you are building systems for someone who has never even heard of computers.

Of course, then again, that is only a good idea if you want to maintain status-quo and not create a new more usable paradigm. While Column-view is not exactly revolutionary, or even perfect, it DOES give the user an indication of where they are in the file system. Problem is, most users don't understand the left-to-right column structure immediately upon trying it and they revert back to habitual List or Icon views. Column view becomes a Power-User type item.

So what side of the fence am I on? I say provide the Power User type features, but not as default. Perhaps there could be a Preferences Assistant that comes preloaded with popular Preference sets. The default set would be the one that tested the best with a random selection of the global demographic (the average user). Other sets could be tailored for PowerUsers, Developers, Graphics Artists, Publishing, and of course any other important groups.

Of course, on a final thought... What reason do we have for sticking with the whole file/folder paradigm? It seems that there are more intuitive ways to think of your data. Provide the average user with their files and folders, give PowerUsers a content-threaded concept-clustered three-dimensional interface enabled through a pressure-sensitive touchpad or a whole new input device. OK, now I'm just delusional... I'll quit typing now. :)
 
djdarlek said:
same problem.. same computer.. different wife... BUT i think it usually warns me that another user is logged in before you shut down and asks for a password to confirm that you really really really do want to shutdown.. add your name/password in the box and it should shut down.. hope this helps save you some time waiting for 10.4

dave

Offtopic: LOL!

Ontopic: I wonder if they will incorporate Spoken Interface into the operating system by the time WWDC rolls around. They already have preview versions available...
–Chase
 
bathysphere said:
this is exactly how it works right now, i run multiple accounts on my g5 and if i want to shut down or restart my computer and there is another account open, a dialog prompts me for my admin password. i've never had to log into another account to shut down or restart..

then there's a bug, because it doesn't work on my G5. I type the admin log/pass and it dismisses the dialog and then just sits there.
 
Moist Piles

Awimoway said:
I'm not going to rush to any judgments. Last year we were all getting ourselves moist over early rumors of Piles. I'm not holding my breath that any of this vague rumor is particularly accurate.


please. never use the words 'moist' and 'piles' in the same sentence again. ever. :eek:
 
I am going to go out on a limb here

and say that I believe (no real proof (sorry)) that the new Tiger will have as a feature a clustering ability. This will allow for all computers on the network to share in the computing power of each. Thus the whole Ghz thing becomes quite pointless. Need more power fireup the laptop! or the set top box.

wild speculation

T
 
TednDi said:
and say that I believe (no real proof (sorry)) that the new Tiger will have as a feature a clustering ability. This will allow for all computers on the network to share in the computing power of each. Thus the whole Ghz thing becomes quite pointless. Need more power fireup the laptop! or the set top box.

wild speculation

T

While an Xgrid-like clustering capability would be nice as a built-in, please keep in mind the relatively slow transfer rates between computers; clustering works best on specific tasks, ones where the processing is more expensive than the transfer. So, while some things would improve with clustering, most users wouldn't see much of a change at all.
 
PRØBE said:
Don't know if anyone else has suggested this (I admit to only getting half-way through reading all the posts on this thread) but I had an idea about increasing the efficiency of the dock. I've read quite a few posts from people complaining about the screen real estate the dock occupies, and people resorting to 3rd party apps like the handy F10. What i think would work well (and look damn cool) would be the option to turn your dock into a "solid" 3D rectangular block. ....

I don't dispute the excellence of the concept.

As a stop-gap measure, what you might not know (or might - I don't mean to be insulting to your Mac IQ) is that you can drag folders into the dock, so you could have folders of various types of apps and then right-click (or control-click if you're a purist) to get to the app/doc/whatever you want.

Not 3D. Not beautiful. But perhaps useful to those with full docks until 10.4 comes out.

I'd also like to see desktop "profiles" so that, for example, I can see one set of things while dutifully working and another while playing. Yeah, I can do it with multiple logins and other mischief, but it's more work than I'd like it to be.

And, finally, I'd like to see true sharing amongst Macs so that, on the Macs I have, I don't need n sets of bookmarks, mail preferences including rules, etc. All the small, easily synched stuff - I'd like to see that, well, easily synched. Effortlessly. Set up the same account and password on multiple Macs, enable "profile sharing" or what have you, and forget about it.
 
sinclairZX81 said:
then there's a bug, because it doesn't work on my G5. I type the admin log/pass and it dismisses the dialog and then just sits there.

Note that the default button is the "Cancel" one. You need to explicitly select the "OK" one.

Note: I don't have it sitting in front of me, so perhaps the text of the buttons isn't "Cancel" and "OK", but you get my drift....
 
Damek said:
... I paid the ~$70 intro price for .Mac when I bought the iBook because it sounded like it might be useful, but frankly, all of the features are not quite worth it for me:....

I'd like to see the renewal rates on .Mac memberships. Personally, I have it, and I did reluctantly renew it, and the biggest use I have for it is iDisk, which isn't great but works well enough to share files between me and other (remote) family members. I think it'd be a better deal at $50/year (well, duh, of course halving the price would make it better - I guess I mean "more reasonable").

I'd like to see what Tiger is doing to advance integration with .Mac. I personally do like the iDisk auto-sync. Still, though, at $99/year, I want more. The software giveaways (3rd party) are sometimes cool, but not enough.
 
Watching the WWDC Keynote Speech

Are we gonna be be able to view the Quicktime feed of the WWDC on June 28? Last time, Quicktime Player kept failing to connect.

Is there other software to view the feeds? Another host? Is someone gonna post the video somewhere?
 
Come ON!!!

HEy Guy's! Listen, Last year Panther blew us away with new features. But did ANY of them even get mentioned as a rumor? NO! And the one feature that did get rumored: Piles was not included. I think we're all just going to have to be patient and see what happens at WWDC.
 
I use ftp via fetch a lot for frequent website changes and it is a pain.

With Panther you can connect to the server from the finder and the site shows up as folders in a finder window on the desktop BUT is is read-only. It would be realy nice to just be able to update the files, live, right then and there.

Why on earth use terminal?



Doctor Q said:
The question is whether or not Apple should include a graphical FTP application that can be used outside Terminal. Like you, I consider command-line FTP to be just fine for my purposes. We are talking about all those other users, who rely on graphical apps and only point and click.
 
rendezvouscp said:
Offtopic: LOL!

Ontopic: I wonder if they will incorporate Spoken Interface into the operating system by the time WWDC rolls around. They already have preview versions available...
–Chase


Why wouldn't they? So far, it's been the only Tiger feature talked about!

Also, where are you getting preview versions? Do you have screen shots?

(4 Posts to Avatar!)
 
davidsanger said:
I use ftp via fetch a lot for frequent website changes and it is a pain.

With Panther you can connect to the server from the finder and the site shows up as folders in a finder window on the desktop BUT is is read-only. It would be realy nice to just be able to update the files, live, right then and there.

Why on earth use terminal?


Yes, I agree. You should be able to edit FTP server files from the Finder. Apple also needs to incorporate a feature where if your connection drops, it pauses your download. I couldn't ever download the full SuSE package because of airport turning off when it was asleep and then not coming on right away. Apple needs to allow Airport/BT to stay on when the computer is asleep, just like the new IBM Thinkpads. That way it can really be your office assistant, checking your email and stocks and downloading files, syncing your PDA/Smart Phone while you're walking through the halls.


(3 Posts to Avatar! :D)
 
damanja10 said:
HEy Guy's! Listen, Last year Panther blew us away with new features. But did ANY of them even get mentioned as a rumor? NO! And the one feature that did get rumored: Piles was not included. I think we're all just going to have to be patient and see what happens at WWDC.


Is the rumor crowd ever patient? ;) We want to know things ahead of time to be amazed, although it's kind of nice to be surprised, but not all the time. :D

(2 Posts to Avatar! :D)
 
this rumor sucks! tighter .Mac integration? thats with every release! jesus! none of us care about that. and those that do, already know that .mac is tight in the os already.

but i'd like to see a new exposé, like sun's 3d desktop. that'd put us a few steps ahead of microsoft, whose 3d OS longhorn won't come out until 2006. like, windows that rotate around or something. more "oohs" and "aahs" are nice. not tighter .mac integration. thats lame, and expected. anyone could have come up with this rumor.

i hope there's more to the OS update than just technical things like, for example, a database-driven filesystem, or tighter .mac integration. like panther was neat, because it had exposé, fast user switching, ichat AV, and a new interface.
 
rendezvouscp said:
The preview versions have been seeded to some people who filled out the questionaire on their spoken interface page and I have been selected. The spoken interface is just that: completely spoken. ...

This is a nice addition. Yet another way Macs are easier to use - or, for some, all they can use.
 
does this cover voice recognition?

That would be cool for all of the total computer phobes out there. Also for integration with the media center type device. "powerbook read me my last three e-mails"

and in a hal type voice

"I'm sorry Ted I didn't understand you...." ;)
 
TednDi said:
That would be cool for all of the total computer phobes out there. Also for integration with the media center type device. "powerbook read me my last three e-mails"

and in a hal type voice

"I'm sorry Ted I didn't understand you...." ;)

You can already do that. Go to System Preferences > Speech. The big new "Universal Access" feature is Spoken Interface, which covers text to speech not the reverse.
 
How do you like "Tiger" so far Chase? When it comes to the NDA, guess you should read the fine print.
 
wdlove said:
How do you like "Tiger" so far Chase? When it comes to the NDA, guess you should read the fine print.

I don't have an actual copy of Tiger (or any copy for that matter), just the Spoken Interface software. I wish I had a copy of Tiger though :D . But who doesn't?
–Chase
 
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